M Is for Mama 2: Quiverfull/Pinterest

[bea]

Funny story: my mom quit her job to be a SAHM. Three months after I was born, she went back to work (as a child welfare social worker) because she discovered she didn’t like being a SAHM. This was in the very early 70s, so I think it was assumed that women naturally liked being SAHMs.
Things this taught me:
1. It’s okay to change your mind about things, even big things.
2. Work can be really meaningful.

Maybe that’s what they don’t want the fundie women or kids to know about. Pretty much exactly those two things.

(I was an only child and I loved daycare and my after school programs, too. GASP.)

[Hashtag Blessed]

On 10/29/2018 at 10:49 PM, JermajestyDuggar said:

I can say no to donuts very easily. Because I hate them. Yet I’m still fat. Shocking right? 

Yes! It is almost as if body composition is more complicated than just the "self-control" of saying no to donuts. CRAZY!!!

6 hours ago, EowynW said:

I wonder why fundie women are so scared of working. I saw this in a lot of women growing up, and I myself was raised in a fundie family with an unconscious anxiety about working as a female. 

Maybe it has to do with being taught to never be confident in your own skills or decisionmaking, and always defer to the men in your life? How could you ever feel capable of fulfilling the demands of a job if you spend your whole life essentially being told that you cannot be trusted to make your own decisions? 

Plus everyone feels unprepared for work after leaving school. It is a whole new world and you really only gain confidence through experience. But if the time and effort of gaining that experience aren't emphasized as important by anyone in your family or social circle, and they're all encouraging you to quit and be a stay at home mother, I could see it being very hard to find the motivation to keep at it. 

[Kailash]

To me it seems that Abbie has several, likely related, mental issues that need to be treated professionally. I don’t agree with her on much, but I can’t snark on her. She’s clearly in over her head and no end in sight. I imagine it would take years of hard mental work to see a difference. I feel terrible for her children.  The fact that all this “dirty laundry” is out there for the world to see is horrifying. Abbie doesn’t see it as “dirty laundry” though. She makes everything Jesus-y and about sin, so in her mind it’s okay to share. 

 

[Don'tlikekoolaid]

Fundies don’t like wife to work because 1) money gives independence.                       2) might develop critical thinking.                  3) will have to interact with heathens.        4) might meet a better man and have an    affair omg

5) drugs and booze are out there.                 6) not doing housework ALL the fucking time.                                                              7) not joyfully available 24/7.                         8 ) will become a confident woman and learn how to say fuck you and mean it.      9) likely figure out she married a dumb fuck and want a divorce.

i have no idea why the format is messed up.

[Hashtag Blessed]

28 minutes ago, Don'tlikekoolaid said:

Fundies don’t like wife to work because 1) money gives independence.                       2) might develop critical thinking.                  3) will have to interact with heathens.        4) might meet a better man and have an    affair omg

5) drugs and booze are out there.                 6) not doing housework ALL the fucking time.                                                              7) not joyfully available 24/7.                         8 ) will become a confident woman and learn how to say fuck you and mean it.      9) likely figure out she married a dumb fuck and want a divorce.

i have no idea why the format is messed up.

I agree that those are definitely motivations in discouraging women from working, but I was thinking more about why the women themselves feel so put off by the very idea of the workplace. Interacting with hethens and non-fundie men is probably part of it, but I could see a motivated woman rationalizing away all of that though, at least for a short time. I mean, Jill Duggar wanted to work as a midwife at one point, and worked toward that goal, but that desire was clearly not considered very important by anyone else in her life. It seemed like a given that she’d drop that ambition entirely now that she’s a mom, and she has. I seriously doubt anyone she’s close to is encouraging her to return to it. So even if she may want to, it must be very hard to find the motivation knowing that she’ll have very little support and possibly even harsh judgement for not staying home. 

Braggie’s identity is very much tied to other people’s perception of her. If she thinks people will judge her for working, I could see that being a very big deal for her. If she also feels intimidated and unsure of herself in a work situation on top of that? Doubt she’d stick with it. She doesn’t strike me as someone who deals with self-doubt very well. 

[luv2laugh]

Truthfully, it's because most of the fundies are selfish and lazy and do NOT want to work hard. They'd rather work 24/7 on THEIR schedule doing what THEY want to do whether it's ACTUALLY parenting a crying, hungry child or schlepping them off to a sibling to work out for 2 hours at the gym again, browse for deals on eBay, DIY a new pillow cover, and blog about it. These fundies get exhausted each day (the ones that are ACTUALLY parenting...unlike Braggie) but they justify their exhaustion as doing the Lord's will as a mother & homemaking helpmeet besides trying to be more like the Proverbs 31 woman "#goals". Many fundies do not feel that having a career is the Lord's will for them and do not want to be a "helpmeet" to a boss. Fundies cannot get the same affirmation from the Bible for having a career compared to being a homemaking helpmeet. 

Fundies like Braggie and Lori Alexander have a distinct attitude that we can refer to as prissy (however, I call it narcissistic) and they could NEVER handle the work load of the Proverbs 31 woman. Can you imagine Lori Alexander and Braggie Abbie Halberstadt getting their fingernails dirty or tackling the grueling work of a farm wife, perhaps? Getting up at 5 AM to milk cows or scoop horse poop is not as glamorous nor fun as going to teach a Pilates class.


Also- Braggie Abbie did take on this question from an Anonymous poster in the comments from her blog post when she complained about the Christian Women panel's advice at a conference she attended.

Question: Anonymous asks Braggie if women can have a career AND be a good mom?

Quote

Second – I am a working mom of one and I love every minute with my little and my love. I often feel guilty that I don’t stay home with him but the truth is I think I can be both. I can be a great mom and a great career person. I go to the gym at 5am so that when I am not working I am 100% with my munchkin. I don’t do unnecessary things (like shop, social media etc) while he is awake. My most important job(s) is a wife and mother. But I am also a pretty great executive. I would argue that my career in some ways makes me a better mom (not better than anyone else – just better than perhaps I would have been without). My job gives me a feeling of confidence and ability and control and accomplishment – I am aware these are not qualities to strive for and maybe not what I should be after as a Christian Mom. But I do know that after a day of succeeding in at work, I am more patient with 2 year old tantrums and play harder, remind more often about kindness and say longer prayers at night.

Curious if you believe that women can do both well?

Third – I love the way your littles lean into your oldest. The body lauguage is amazing and heartwarming.

Braggie loves making moms feel guilty & bad. If she makes them feel jealous, her day is made.

Braggie Abbie answers... ?

Quote

Hi there! Thanks for such a thoughtful and respectful response.

In response to your questions: I do believe that a woman can work outside the home and be a good mom as well as a good ________ (fill in blank with profession).

I have no doubt that you’re a good executive. I was a good Spanish teacher for 6 years, two of which I spent juggling part time teaching with being a mama to my first two when they were very little.
My point in writing this post is not that moms can’t be great at a job. They definitely can. That Proverbs 31 woman is a whiz at business and sewing…time management…all of it. I have no doubt that she could have run an entire company effortlessly. Neither do I deny that there is a whole lot of satisfaction to be reaped from a job well done outside the home.

HOWEVER, the rub for me comes from sheer mathematics. Everybody only gets 24 hours in a day (duh). If your child is a good sleeper, he will likely spend 10-11 of those hours sleeping. As a point of reference, my kids go to bed around 8:30 and wake up (on average) at 7. So, if my kids wake up at 7, and I have to be at work at 9 and get them to daycare or school by 8, then the 1ish hours that I have with them in the morning is spent hustling like MAD to get out the door on time. (I know from my experience as a part time teacher). And if I get off of work at 5, then I have to drive across town to pick my kids up, which means that, if I’m lucky, I’ll get home by 5:45. Then, I have to rustle up some dinner and feed it to them. Even when I prep dinner ahead of time (which is usually), I can’t get it on the table in under 20 minutes, so by now, we’re past 6 PM, and we haven’t even eaten. By the time we do eat and clear the table, it’s close to 7. Which means bath time, story time, play time…for an hour. And then bedtime. With that math, I have spent 1-2 hours max of focused time with my child in an average day. Maybe I was super patient and focused and pretty much the best mom in the entire world for those two hours. But it was still less than 10% off the time in a full day.

And I have a conviction that, as their mom, it is my job to be the primary influencer of my children’s hearts, learning, and growth. No one is more invested in doing it well than I am. Because, no matter how much someone loves working with kids, they simply will not ever get as jazzed about *my* baby as I will.  So! If I believe that I am to be my children’s primary caretaker, and I believe that this means a majority-of-my-day time commitment, then I cannot make the math of working full time outside of the home work for me.

Will it mean that I have to sacrifice certain categories of self-fulfillment and all levels of professional recognition? (Assuming I don’t work at all). Yes. And I know that that is so, so hard. I definitely enjoyed the kudos that came from people finding out (and being impressed) that I was a foreign language teacher and from watching my students succeed. It was gratifying and self-confirming.  I believe that our need for that kind of recognition is a God-inspired one, except that, instead of finding it in others’ praise or how much more in control we feel because projects don’t throw tantrums (ha!), we are meant, as Christians, to fill it with *his* approval and the joy of laying down our lives in service to those we love. Totally counter-cultural and against what gratifies our flesh? For sure. Totally worth it? Absolutely. (And, interestingly enough, totally capable of changing the things our hearts desire and what brings us fulfillment…speaking from personal experience).

I don’t know if you’ve ever heard this really famous quote from the martyred missionary, Jim Eliot, but I love it so much as it relates to motherhood: “He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose.” I don’t know too many people who value what I do as a profession, and that’s toooootally okay. Hard as it may be, I can give that up for the knowledge of the eternal impact I’m making on my children’s lives.

I’m sorry for writing a book. I don’t know if this was the answer you wanted or were expecting, but I hope you hear my heart in it, which is not to condemn you but to (hopefully) provide food for thought. I really appreciate your asking such open questions and being willing to read my answers.

Blog post: http://misformama.net/2016/06/for-such-a-time-as-this.html

Hmm... This is all very interesting coming from Braggie considering that her own mother and two eldest sons spend more one-on-one time with her littles than Braggie herself. Her 3 oldest kids don't even sleep at her house on Thursdays. The three oldest spend the entire day at her mother's and sleep over there. Braggie has posted that her mother homeschools them, I believe, for 2 days each week.

I believe Braggie stayed home for the same reason Lori Alexander did. Slothfulness. Laziness. Prissy princess attitudes. Braggie constantly brags about her energy, despite her 8+ pregnancies, and brags about productivity vs. slothfulness however, Braggie lives her life like she's on vacation without any responsibility. Braggie Abbie IS lazy and only does what she wants to do for the day. If a child or even her husband get in the way of Braggie's plans for the day, hell breaks loose and she has a meltdown.

 

4 hours ago, Kailash said:

To me it seems that Abbie has several, likely related, mental issues that need to be treated professionally. I don’t agree with her on much, but I can’t snark on her. She’s clearly in over her head and no end in sight. I imagine it would take years of hard mental work to see a difference. I feel terrible for her children. 

@Kailash I completely agree with you but it needs to be called out. Braggie's platform caters to new moms, veteran moms, moms in the trenches, and even moms with post-partum depression. Moms compare themselves more to other fellow moms like Braggie rather, than say Beyonce because they know Bey has teams of employees helping her. Braggie is not only fake but has a harmful belief system which needs to be called out just like Lori Alexander. Most young moms are going to be reading what Braggie, who has babies too, says rather than what Lori is spouting, IMO.

I really think Braggie Abbie's M.O. is to be combination of Joanna Gaines & Michelle Duggar. She wants to ride on Michelle Duggar's coattails, with the famous"How do you do it all?" questions people asked Michelle. Of course, Braggie also desires the elevated fundie "status" within her church as well as the increased attention that comes along with 8+ kids. Abbie is SO selfish, vain, and jealous competitive that attention is what she lives for.

If Abbie can't be given the verbal/written affirmation that she is "the best", "the winner", and has not made another mother feel bad, guilty, or jealous of her, then she has a breakdown. Through her blog & Instagram, not only has Abbie showcased her obsessive need for control, but she has also demonstrated an excessive need for approval and attention. It's quite unfortunate that she resorts to controversial child training techniques in order to meet her excessive need for approval and attention everyday.

Braggie Abbie would loooove to get a TV show that's a mix of Fixer Upper & 19 Kids & Counting. In fact, I bet she has already pitched a TV show of her family around as she's admitted back ~2011 that she "shopped" her book to publishers. She'd looove to have a TV show where cameras follow her around, like they did with Michelle Duggar, asking "HOW do you do it all?" as she's prepping to teach pilates at 5 AM. She'd looove the cameras to ask how she, a "boss", would design a room and show how she, Shaun, and her FIL would repair it. ? After all guys, she does "DIY like a boss". ?
 

[luv2laugh]

Hi Abbie! 
Abbie appears to be responding to the criticism via Instagram posts. She tells everyone to read her child training post in her bio link on Instagram, "For all of you who are asking about my child training post on the blog, I put a link to the first one in my profile" what she is not honest about is that she tells posters who ask her questions on training and discipline to EMAIL her. Also, she's addressed her shopping addiction today.

Let's take a gander at that child training post link, shall we? It's from 2017.

She admits she reads here:

Quote

The internet can be a bit of a scary place filled with people who come into a blog post with all kinds of assumptions and baggage. There’s no guarantee they’re going to read my words as I intend them or to even read them correctly. Example: a while back, I stumbled upon a message board about my blog in which a woman criticized me for my extravagance in choosing a Viking stove because she had seen a picture of one in a design board I’d thrown together and had not read the sentence immediately following the picture, which said it was just there as an example and that I would never actually pay $13,000–or anything like it–for a stove.

It took me a long time to even consider the possibility that I might have anything helpful to share and to feel confident enough in my mothering to recognize that my fear of being seen as “bossy” or a “know-it-all” was just a (potentially) selfish excuse to keep from getting yelled at (virtually or not). Because people get touchy about this momming stuff, yo.

http://misformama.net/2017/06/what-child-training-looks-like-at-our-house-part-1.html

Liar, liar pants on fire. Anytime a poster has asked Braggie Abbie in the past for tips on discipline, she tells them to EMAIL her. Posters in the comments have mentioned her instructions on "emailing her" regarding advice on child discipline training as well. Hah! Abbie & Shaun Halberstadt don't want too many people to know about how they spanks them to break their will a la Debi & Michael Pearl's To Train up A Child book style, spank if a tiny toddler can't sit still for Bible time, & don't want people to know about how they squirts fuss juice down a baby's throat for something as simple as whining or as simple as a child having an unpleasant attitude while doing ALL of the household chores. These are things someone who is obsessed with what others think about her PUBLICLY ADMITTED to. I am concerned about what she hasn't admitted to.

She thinks this picture is funny? She thinks this picture makes her admirable? NO WORDS.


Here's her response to her shopaholic comments via Instagram today:

Spoiler

As a hardcore thrifter of yore, I have definitely been guilty in the past of having way too many clothes. 
Especially since I used to live 10 minutes from thee best and least trafficked Goodwill in the world. 
It's easy to justify buying 5 dresses you don't really need when the total at the checkout is still only $20.

But, no matter the deal or the thrill of finding an Anthro blouse with tags still on for $5, it's still not a bargain if I don't actually need it/won't wear it often. And--while it's "better than retail"--it's not a good habit if it has my heart. 
And so I've been on a year-long quest to downsize my wardrobe. I held a "free sale" at my house. I went on a 6 month buying fast. I've donated and given to friends (it makes me really happy to walk through church on Sunday mornings and spot mamas looking awesome in something that was previously languishing in my closet unworn). And I'm still not done. This picture represents 85% of my clothes of every season/size (including maternity). Nothing in storage.The rest (athletic, sleep, shorts, etc.) is in drawers. 
I still have too many clothes, but it's an improvement and represents things I do wear/have worn for over 5 years. 
My point? I don't want to say I love Jesus and then end up like the rich young ruler who went away from the Lord's presence sad bc he loved his things more. 
I don't love them more. I know that. So, now I need to prove it. 
Any other recovering thriftoholics out there? 
#confessionsofathriftoholic #jesusisgreater#wantsomefreeclothes

Spoiler

Nope. I don't believe her. Also, there are her red Hunter boots along with a pair of teal Hunter boots. Again, the trendy boots retail well over $100 and used ones in pretty shabby condition are around $80. This is not a mom of 4, this is a mom of 8. Ms. Shopaholic could put that money to better use such as doing something to alleviate the ridiculous burdens she places upon her children or spending it on said children. Alas, she will not. Evidently, she doesn't care about the quality of life of her children, only what makes her life easier matters.

Also, thrifting and finding deals on home decor & clothing take time,it's an opportunity cost. A mother of eight needs to be responsible about what her TIME is being spent on. Taking on responsibility is the least of Braggie Abbie's concerns. Psssh, she lets her oldest kids and her mommy (and possibly Shaun) handle THAT.

[picklepizzas]

Abbie does work though, doesn't she? She teaches several fitness classes during the week. Even if it's not full time it's certainly work outside the home. 

Whoever mentioned that narcissists don't want you to see them as weak - that's funny bc I came here to laugh at the fact she couldn't even let us think she might have the perceived weakness of not resisting donuts. like, abbie, the point of that shirt is to be self-deprecating. but she just couldn't help but point out that she doesn't even have that weakness! she just liked the shirt. hahaha. that totally ruins any relatability of that shirt/post. #youredoingitwrong

[luv2laugh]

Girlfriend may be able to say no to donuts. Big whoop. Yes, snarky it may be of me but she can't say no to her favorite #hocho, coke floats, and other amazing treats she's talked about on the blog. Why not just admit you can say no to some treats but not say no to others? Big deal... We are all human. I can't say no to chocolate. In fact, I have eaten more of the Halloween candy than most of my Trick or Treaters combined.  Cake? Not a fan. Chocolate? I'll eat it for breakfast, lunch, and dinner.

Exercise? Meh. Dieting? More up my alley. Actually, time for a BRAGGIE moment here. I'm pretty underweight and have been my whole life. The only time I've gained weight was when I was on a certain steroid medication before and also the birth control for awhile and it caused me to gain like 15 lbs of water weight. In fact, I'm so underweight that I was mercilessly teased about it my whole life. I'm 5'8.5 and am anywhere from 102 (lowest point)-110 lbs depending on the day, time of the month, and what I've eaten. And NOPE, I am not a huge fan of working out and have only recently got into yoga, pilates, & daily walks in an effort to maintain healthy bones, joints, and a healthy cardiovascular system. I have never once bragged about this and am more likely to tell people the struggles of being teased & accused of having eating disorders my whole life. I tell people how beautiful curves are and how it's not fun to lack them. Doctors have told me it's likely a genetic component because my mother was a fellow waif-like being at 107 lbs at 35 years old when she got pregnant with me, her first.

You know what? In High school I NEVER had eating disordered behavior but now, after getting to know people like Gwenny Shamblin, Braggie, Lori Alexander and the oh so inevitable age getting up to me (no longer a teenager, for sure) any pound or fluff I notice more of and the more sadist I become about my diet. Unhealthy? Yep, very much. At least I admit it and lack pride about it. We're all not perfect and we all have problems.

Did I graduate Summa Cum Laude from college? Yep. At least I never bring it up unless asked. Have I been asked? Maybe by a family member or a friend. Other things in life are FAR more important than what GRADES we received back in school, Braggie Abbie, like what we do to GIVE BACK and SERVE OUR COMMUNITY & the POOR.... What WE DO with our privileges to help the needy is what is worth talking about NOT bragging about said privilege. In fact, serving quietly and humbly is best. I admire philanthropists that donate millions ANONYMOUSLY. 

Did my STEM major husband (whose now in finance) go to an Ivy League School? Yep. Again, I don't brag about it and if asked, he simply says "I went to school in Boston".

Am I a proud feminist and fighter for equal rights of ALL people? You bet. The game is rigged for the rich & well connected and I want ALL people have the same opportunities to achieve their dreams. Not all people get it that life isn't truly based on merit, grades, hard work, but more about who you know or how WHO you know can benefit THEM.

You see, Braggie, people that have empathy for other real people have the decency to not brag about their perceived accomplishments. In fact, most truly content people (I am working on contentment and can't say I'm there) WILL NOT BRAG about their career, their house, the shape of their body, their life, or their money.

Why? People are raised with respect & humility OR learn them. People see the hate on the news and don't want to bring people down. There is an epidemic of people suffering from depression and I want people to know I'm a fellow suffering human, to SEE my flaws too and to know I FEEL YOU or am at least TRYING to feel you... I do not want anyone to look at me and cry themselves to sleep at night but like Trump, Braggie does. Braggie wants to dominate and wants to "beat" everyone at the Mommy War Games. I hate people like her. She screws with the minds of mothers who are just trying to put food on the table, keep the kids warm & fed, not alienate their spouses totally, and get up and repeat it in a sleep deprived state AGAIN.

She has to make everything about sin to a pathological level. She uses her blog not to relate or emphasize with other moms but as a way to be sadistic and even masochistic to herself about her unrealistic expectations. She says she exercises twice a day, 6/7 days a week yet, if she "only" works out for 6 hours total in a week, she announces it in a blog in a humble-brag way and says she has to up her game. It's so bizarre.  The blog and Instagram have become a sadistic accountability partner to her that she beats herself up with anytime she doesn't do what she WRITES she is doing or attempts to accomplish, to her followers.

Braggie needs to be careful about what she brags about it. Things are not as important as she thinks they are and any of us can lose everything we've accomplished in a second. I want to uplift people around me rather than uplift any sense of my own "status" and cannot stand people like Braggie who serve to do the opposite and contribute to mommy guilt and mommy wars. Isn't there enough hate and unfairness in the world?

You know what Christian lady I take more seriously? Jen Hatmaker. She adopts children in need. She speaks out against Trump. She speaks up for gay people that are in love, want to marry, and want to be accepted by the church. She acts far more like the hands & feet of Jesus--- not the Braggie type. Jen Hatmaker doesn't seem to be about the money & catering to the Patriarchial Christian majority that tries to set everyone back.

***Another thing. She's not an interior designer so why shove photos everyday of your clean table and tufted ottoman to your followers while sharing a toddler meltdown story? Aren't you catering to mothers? Like, girl, come oooon.... I swear, I laugh every time she does this. Girlfriend is as tone deaf as JRod.

Maybe Braggie would have more of the deep, quality friendships she always talks about wanting if she quit puffing herself up and playing pretend games on social media. Like, for real. When I started being transparent with friends about my reality rather than anything they saw in my photos, they became my best. Like, do what BFF Mandy says and invite friends over for a frozen pizza meal and welcome them into your messy house without a ton of make-up on. I do it frequently myself and my friends do the same because we know what actually matters. Tell your friends and your followers how you scored that $5 Anthro top instead of pretending you got it full price or bragging you scored it at a deal & refuse to share how. Be humble, transparent, and share how rather than brag all the time. Braggie needs to get over her phobia of being seen as weak because guess what? We all have weaknesses.
 

[danvillebelle]

Holy Crap that is a shit ton of clothes.

I mean, I'm coming from a place of having gone minimalist with my wardrobe this year, but DAY-UM, girl, you have 8 kids.  Give them some room in the clothing budget too.

[JermajestyDuggar]

I think the vast majority of people have more clothing than they actually wear. It’s pretty normal in the US. However most people get rid of clothing without bragging about it. I am actually embarrassed by the amount of clothing I’ve given to goodwill in the past few years. Because it’s a lot and I should have never kept clothing I hadn’t worn in more than five years! What a waste of storage space! But of course Braggie uses this as an opportunity to brag about all of her amazing deals and how she gives her clothing to friends because she’s oh so generous. 

Hint: you aren’t being generous if you are giving away shit you don’t want. I say this as a person who has given away a ton of shit. I didn’t want it and I wanted it OUT of my house. That’s actually a pretty self serving act. 

[danvillebelle]

51 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

I think the vast majority of people have more clothing than they actually wear. It’s pretty normal in the US.

Oh agreed, for sure.  

I'd like to make Braggie watch the documentary The True Cost and see how she feels about her cute knock-offs then.  (who am I kidding, she probably wouldn't give two shits)

[FilleMondaine]

I was thinking about the fear that fundie women have for working, and I have a hunch that it goes back to the general fungelical view of marriage. I remember my own mother (think Debi Pearl) talking about women like this: "well, if they didn't want X, then they should have chosen a better husband". In my home, X could have been low-wages, personality differences, or even abuse. Divorce, of course, was not an option. The result: a working fundie woman would be judged for others for her bad choice in marriage. And since marriage is the only choice available to women*, choosing unwisely will earn rebuke from others. They should have "done better" in choosing their spouse.

*choice is often "choice" in fundie circles, but I think you guys catch my drift.

What do you think?

[smittykins]

Totally agree.  I've read about teen moms whose babydaddies have walked out, and all they hear is "Too bad, you should have picked a guy who was willing to wait for marriage."

[JermajestyDuggar]

7 minutes ago, smittykins said:

Totally agree.  I've read about teen moms whose babydaddies have walked out, and all they hear is "Too bad, you should have picked a guy who was willing to wait for marriage."

That is beyond insane to me. How do people expect CHILDREN to pick a partner based on whether they would be a good husband and father? Often the dads are children too! 

[ViolaSebastian]

3 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

That is beyond insane to me. How do people expect CHILDREN to pick a partner based on whether they would be a good husband and father? Often the dads are children too! 

Even as an adult, it's a bit of a crap shoot. Sometimes there's no way of predicting what direction someone will go.

[JermajestyDuggar]

Just now, ViolaSebastian said:

Even as an adult, it's a bit of a crap shoot. Sometimes there's no way of predicting what direction someone will go.

Exactly! I’ve known people who married someone who hid part of themselves very well (addiction/abuse/cheating) and it didn’t come out until after marriage. So those people are supposed to just live with that shit? Fuck that.

[luv2laugh]

I have known husbands that were high-powered attorneys until they lost their job and used alcohol to cope with the depression. 

I have known husbands that have committed suicide over their financial losses tied up in the stock market and in real estate in 2008 market crash.

I have known of consultants that spend so much traveling so that they can escape from their wives and have mistresses.

I have known of engineers that could never recover from addiction and mental illnesses that ended up almost impoverished. One needed the financial support of his wealthy brother for the rest of his life. Same Christian wealthy brother divorced his 65 year old wife for a newer model.

Your husband can get in an accident or get sick and die, leaving you a widow too. I knew of a young orthopedic surgeon that passed away recently.

Fundies freely admit that God does not promise us an easy life no mater how holier than thou you may be.

Be kind to people. Stay humble. Love your family, your children, and your friends. Many of us are -one- disaster away from becoming needy. 

Life is a crapshoot.

Pride goeth before the fall.

[SassyPants]

2 hours ago, luv2laugh said:

I have known husbands that were high-powered attorneys until they lost their job and used alcohol to cope with the depression. 

I have known husbands that have committed suicide over their financial losses tied up in the stock market and in real estate in 2008 market crash.

I have known of consultants that spend so much traveling so that they can escape from their wives and have mistresses.

I have known of engineers that could never recover from addiction and mental illnesses that ended up almost impoverished. One needed the financial support of his wealthy brother for the rest of his life. Same Christian wealthy brother divorced his 65 year old wife for a newer model.

Your husband can get in an accident or get sick and die, leaving you a widow too. I knew of a young orthopedic surgeon that passed away recently.

Fundies freely admit that God does not promise us an easy life no mater how holier than thou you may be.

Be kind to people. Stay humble. Love your family, your children, and your friends. Many of us are -one- disaster away from becoming needy. 

Life is a crapshoot.

Pride goeth before the fall.

Beyond billionaires, most Americans could not financially handle a major disability to the primary wage earner. Death, yes, but a major disability, requiring lifelong care, to the primary wage and benefit earner? Nope.

[feministxtian]

We lost everything...literally. We survived. Today was the first time I went shopping somewhere other than the thrift store or WalMart. I went a little nuts...2 pairs of jeans, 2 tops at Ross, two pairs of shoes for me, one for the hub and some socks at Famous Footwear. 

Thing is, I purge the hell out of my clothes regularly, I have a "rule" that for every new article of clothing that comes in, 2 have to go out. I filled a couple of bags for the clothing drive at work this week. And, I purge every time we move (which is all the fucking time). 

When I had little kids, I looked like shit 90% of the time but damn if my kids weren't dressed to impress. Clean, matching, usually gently used or new. They weren't fancy, but they matched, hair brushed (girls always had braids or pony tails). I spent big bucks on shoes for them too. 

Braggie is a piece of shit. It takes a lot of courage to finally admit you need help, but Braggie won't ever do it. 

[luv2laugh]

27 minutes ago, feministxtian said:

We lost everything...literally. We survived. Today was the first time I went shopping somewhere other than the thrift store or WalMart. I went a little nuts...2 pairs of jeans, 2 tops at Ross, two pairs of shoes for me, one for the hub and some socks at Famous Footwear. 

Thing is, I purge the hell out of my clothes regularly, I have a "rule" that for every new article of clothing that comes in, 2 have to go out. I filled a couple of bags for the clothing drive at work this week. And, I purge every time we move (which is all the fucking time). 

When I had little kids, I looked like shit 90% of the time but damn if my kids weren't dressed to impress. Clean, matching, usually gently used or new. They weren't fancy, but they matched, hair brushed (girls always had braids or pony tails). I spent big bucks on shoes for them too. 

Braggie is a piece of shit. It takes a lot of courage to finally admit you need help, but Braggie won't ever do it. 

B.I.N.GO. You deserve a standing ovation right now. .

Also Hi again Braggie. She's basically commenting on the criticism we're talking about here via Instagram on-the-daily.

Spoiler

Quote

I have (painful) varicose veins in my right leg that make it look like an alien crawled inside my skin and is trying to break out again. My round ligament pain is often so intense when I sit up that it takes my breath. And sometimes, I wake up so hangry and irritable that I kind of want to eat small children for breakfast. I've said it before and I'll say it again: I don't love being pregnant. 
But I do love babies. And I sure love the purifying work the Lord has done in my life through a process that I don't enjoy and yet results in SO much joy. "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless a grain of wheat falls into the earth and dies, it remains alone; but if it dies, it bears much fruit." John 12:24

The process of dying to self--pride, vanity, self-focus, feeling entitled--whether it's pregnancy or loss of relationships or sickness or...is rarely the way we would choose to bring about growth. 
But it's always what produces the most fruit of all. 
If you're walking through a trial, friend, whatever that looks like, take heart, and hold tight to Jesus. The fruit is coming. 
I'll meet mine in 3 months, and varicose veins will have NOTHING on the smell of my boy's sweet head. 
#preachingtomyself#pregnancyissanctifying#hardisnotthesamethingasbad#loveofjesusoverloveofself

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bbetler

@m.is.for.mama Oh, I hear you! I'm 20 weeks pregnant with baby #7 and my varicose veins are starting to ache already. And, my left leg and ankle have had the varicosities since baby 2, but now my right leg is becoming just as bad. I have to remind myself daily to take time to just sit and elevate my feet....not something that comes naturally to me, but I know holding my baby in a few short months is so worth the sacrifice.

OK, we get it. You're basically downright sadistic & masochistic to purge the sin out of your body on-the-daily. Do your children deserve the same treatment. NO. Were you or Shaun raised with this mindset and required to perform absurd, grueling household "routines"? NO. Did you and Shaun still become saved Christians, in YOUR eyes? ..... Then WHY are you being so unfair to your children? Probably because yes, you are self-focused, prideful, and vain. You are too lazy to do the household chores yourself while you spend hours shopping eBay or haggling at Lowe's and you're too selfish to hire a maid to alleviate the undue burden placed on little children to do work you & your husband need to be handling.  Children need to be taught to pick up after themselves but they shouldn't be working for you. The kicker of it all is that you punish them if they don't work for you with a cheerful attitude and have admitted to spankings and shooting "fuss juice" into their mouths for minutiae things. In addition, yes, I think you are vain & plain old mean to dress yourself in the shiniest rags you can find while your take pictures of your children in dingy, pilled clothing that they don't seem to have much of while you, a mother of EIGHT, trot about town in $100+ Hunter boots.

[danvillebelle]

There are ways to die to self and work toward the process of sanctification WITHOUT BRINGING ANOTHER HUMAN BEING INTO THE WORLD IN THE PROCESS.  

WTF did I just read.  Seriously.  Having child after child for YOUR OWN GAIN IN YOUR SPIRITUAL LIFE is...is...FUCKED UP.  

[JermajestyDuggar]

Why didn’t she post a picture of those varicose veins? 

[FilleMondaine]

20 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

That is beyond insane to me. How do people expect CHILDREN to pick a partner based on whether they would be a good husband and father? Often the dads are children too! 

That's the point. It doesn't have to make sense (outside of a Jane Austen novel) to be pertinent to fundies. It is just another level of patriarchal cruelty in this culture.

[sleepy_doggos]

There are ways to die to self and work toward the process of sanctification WITHOUT BRINGING ANOTHER HUMAN BEING INTO THE WORLD IN THE PROCESS.  
WTF did I just read.  Seriously.  Having child after child for YOUR OWN GAIN IN YOUR SPIRITUAL LIFE is...is...FUCKED UP.  

I hate this reasoning. The books Sacred Marriage and Sacred Parenting by someone I don't remember have popularized it for this generation maybe? It made sense to me as a Christian but once I got into counseling, figured out some childhood experience BS, and rethought it I started calling it out when friends suggested the idea. No person should have a child to help them work on their own character flaws. Does character improvement happen while you parent? I'm sure it can. Should that be your reason for having children? No, you should have children because you want to help care for and nurture a child as he or she grows into an adult. Children are not props or tools.