Saudis/MBS/Khashoggi/Yemen/Kushner

[Howl]

Pompeo and Mattis will be briefing the full Senate about Yemen this morning, but in a "classified setting." A vote about continuing US support for Saudis in their war in Yemen could come as early as this afternoon. 

Foreign Policy parses it out here:   

Senate Summons Pompeo and Mattis Over Saudi Arabia      Lawmakers are pushing to overrule the Trump administration and end U.S. involvement in the devastating Yemeni civil war.

There is so much more to this, because in a sense, it will expose who is willing to break ranks with the Trumpistration ahead of the new Congress. 

The WH is denying that Gina Haspel is being kept from the briefing -- from CNN as part of an article about Haspel:  

Quote

Two sources told CNN on Monday that the US has "slammed the brakes on" a United Nations Security Council resolution calling for a limited ceasefire and increased humanitarian aid in Yemen over concerns about angering Saudi Arabia...The reason for the delay continues to be a White House worry about angering Saudi Arabia, which strongly opposes the resolution, multiple sources say. CNN reported earlier this month that bin Salman "threw a fit" when presented with an early draft of the document, leading to a delay and further discussions among Western allies on the matter.

Full text of the CNN article here: CIA director Haspel caught in Khashoggi briefing tug-of-war

 Jared still needs a bailout on 666 Fifth Ave., because of "a $1.4 billion mortgage on the office portion of the tower that was due in February next year [2019]."  Talk about a balloon payment!

Brookfield Assets has taken out a 99 year lease on the building, paid in full up front, but that still leaves a lot left over.  

[fraurosena]

The truth will always out, no matter the WH denials.
Haspel was indeed prevented from attending the briefing at the direction of the WH.

 

[Howl]

It's as though Miss Lindsay is routinely assigned supporting roles.  Today he's "Outraged Senator!",  stamping his little feet and Refusing. To. Vote. for even One. More. Thing.  until something something something.  

The Senate's bill will not get through the house without relentless amending--what you actually eat vs what comes out the other end is a good analogy, so who the hell knows what will finally happen. 

Back three weeks or so ago, Mattis was calling for a meeting between relevant parties (Houthis/Yeminis/Saudis) to sit down in Sweden to discuss a ceasefire within the next 30 days, so the clock is ticking down on that.  There was an attempt to do this in the past, but the Houthis neglected to show up; however, their population was not facing mass starvation at the time. 

There are  also issues over whether to limit weapon sales to the Saudis to defensive systems, i.e., systems that could better shoot down missiles that Houthis have been lobbing into Saudi territory and towns, rather than offensive systems to kill more Yemini civilians. 

There are also (apparently) peace talks with the Afghani Taliban taking place in Qatar (I think, have to check on which nation).  

Had Trump/Tillerson not eviscerated the State Department, and left the vacant Saudi ambassadorship to young Jared and his Peace in the Middle East  get 666 Fifth Ave paid off by rich Arabs portfolio,  there might be institutional knowledge and some depth on how to better handle this. 

Trump nominated yet another retired general, John Abizaid, to the Saudi ambassadorship on Nov. 13, but no word yet on when the Senate will vote on his confirmation.  According to CNN, Abizaid "was the head of CENTCOM from 2003 to 2007, and oversaw military strategy and joint operations in the Middle East, the Horn of Africa and Central Asia."  The good: he has relevant experience in the area, has developed relationships wiht major heads of state/military in the area, speaks Arabic and has a graduate degree from Harvard in Middle Eastern Studies.  The bad: another general who may default to military, rather than diplomatic, options.

I'd really encourage you to read this long article if you have a more abiding interest in this issue of who the real enemy is in the Middle East, the Saudi role in spreading global terrorism, Sunni vs Shia and so forth, the war in Iraq, The Long War, and Abizaid's take on this from a few years back.  From The Nation, Nov. 27, 2018:   Has the United States Been Fighting the Wrong War in the Middle East?

 

Edited November 29, 2018 by Howl

[Audrey2]

1 hour ago, Howl said:

there might be institutional knowledge and some depth on how to better handle this. 

Snip

This is my big argument against term limits. I know whenever we get close to election time and even when we're not, it seems like so many people in general come up with the idea that we need term limits- no more than three or four terms for the House of Representatives and one or two for the Senate. By doing that, not only will we lose long-term institutional knowledge and relationships that enable people to work together (unfortunately not happening now), but we would also put more power in the hands of the lobbyists. I know that this isn't a thread about Congress or about term limits, but you brought up a very valid point that I think also applies to term limits.

[Howl]

4 hours ago, Audrey2 said:

Snip

This is my big argument against term limits. I know whenever we get close to election time and even when we're not, it seems like so many people in general come up with the idea that we need term limits- no more than three or four terms for the House of Representatives and one or two for the Senate. By doing that, not only will we lose long-term institutional knowledge and relationships that enable people to work together (unfortunately not happening now), but we would also put more power in the hands of the lobbyists. I know that this isn't a thread about Congress or about term limits, but you brought up a very valid point that I think also applies to term limits.

I agree with this 100%.  It also speaks to the experience required to write good laws and not crazy bullshit that immediately sends lawsuits flying and hurts good people. 

One of the current criticism of Department of Defense is that the military point of view is in ascendancy and  DoD civilian employee institutional knowledge is being lost because those people are demoralized and fleeing in droves. 

[fraurosena]

 

[GreyhoundFan]

"‘We don’t want him here’: Saudi crown prince is a protected pariah at G-20 summit"

Spoiler

BUENOS AIRES — The legions of protesters demonstrating at a leaders summit here have unfurled a sea of standard-issue signs, ranging from “No to Imperialism” to “Yankees Go Home.” But a newer rallying cry also appeared on a smattering of homemade posters.

“Mohammed bin Salman, Assassin!”

For Saudi Arabia’s Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman — widely known by his initials, MBS — the Group of 20 leaders summit in Buenos Aires has amounted to a key test: his first appearance at a major international event since the killing of dissident journalist Jamal Khashoggi, a Saudi who was a frequent critic of the kingdom’s de facto leader.

“The CIA thinks he is the one who ordered the kill on Khashoggi,” said Cristian Pirovano, a 40-year old teacher from Buenos Aires, referring to U.S. intelligence assessments that the crown prince almost certainly orchestrated the assassination of Khashoggi, a Washington Post contributing columnist, at his country’s consulate in Turkey.

“We don’t want him here, because of the assassination of the journalist, because of what the Saudis are doing in Yemen, because of all this death,” Pirovano said.

Mohammed came to the summit a pariah to some leaders — he was positioned at the far edge of the back row in the annual “family photo” with attending leaders Saturday, and leaders including Germany’s Angela Merkel had let it be known before the summit that they would not see Mohammed in Argentina. The crown prince also holed up in the fortified Saudi Embassy away from the rest of the Saudi delegation after his arrival here, amid moves by Argentine prosecutors to investigate human rights complaints against him.

But Mohammed was also secure in the knowledge that President Trump had already said that the crown prince’s culpability, if any, would not rupture the U.S. relationship with Riyadh.

That guarantee helped convince Mohammed that he could make the trip on behalf of his country, which is slated to play host to the same G-20 gathering in 2020. And Mohammed has found comfort in some quarters here — a high-five from a grinning Russian President Vladimir Putin, and a brief but symbolic televised exchange with Trump, his daughter Ivanka Trump and Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin. The White House said Trump merely “exchanged pleasantries.”

Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi was also photographed smiling next to Mohammed at their private meeting Friday, and British Prime Minister Theresa May has defended her plans to also meet with the young Saudi.

But the man who once sought to fashion himself as the younger, fresher face of Saudi leadership has also arrived to find himself viewed as tainted, transformed into a global symbol of brutal tyranny. In what was meant to be a triumphant display of his consolidation of power at home, Mohammed has instead been dogged by legal attempts to prosecute him in Argentina for foreign crimes, singled out by protesters and scolded by European leaders.

“His reputation has obviously been seriously damaged,” said Jose Miguel Vivanco, executive director of Human Rights Watch Americas Division. “I think he was convinced that he could walk on water and pay no cost whatsoever. But this case will follow him every time he leaves Saudi Arabia, probably for the rest of his life.”

Mohammed has not necessarily been persona non grata. In a news conference Thursday, Argentine President Mauricio Macri justified the prince’s presence at the summit.

“Saudi Arabia is a member of the G-20 so the prince has to come,” said Macri, who went on to meet with Mohammed on Saturday. His role in the killing of Khashoggi, Macri said at the news conference, is a subject that “has impacted the world and that may be discussed in bilateral or general meetings. But he is part this community and is now in the country to participate starting tomorrow.”

Yet he has also been taken to task. In a conversation with the crown prince on Friday, France’s Emmanuel Macron called for international investigators to join the probe into Khashoggi’s killing, and stressed “the necessity of a political solution” to the Saudi-backed war in Yemen.

“The Khashoggi case is serious and I think the truth needs to be sought. I want investigations in Turkey and Saudi Arabia to continue to clarify the situation to the family and the international community,” Macron said on Friday.

Also on Friday, an apparently private — and heated — conversation between Macron and Mohammed was captured on microphone. “I do worry. I am worried. I told you,” Macron says to him.

“Yes, you told me, thank you very much,” the prince says.

“You never listen to me,” Macron responds.

Turkey’s President Recep Tayyip Erdogan used the G-20 as a platform to slam the Saudis for their contradictory statements and lack of cooperation with Turkish investigators probing the assassination, which took place at the Saudi consulate in Istanbul. “This is not an issue only for Turkey but for the whole world,” he said.

“Our judicial and administrative bodies have not unfortunately received the required support from Saudi officials,” Erdogan told reporters in Buenos Aires on Saturday. “The crown prince has stated that we cannot blame anyone unless the crime is proven. Well, we do know that 15 people have arrived in Istanbul in two separate aircraft and they have acted in a planned operation, as they themselves admitted. But now we see that they have decided to deny this, too.”

During her one-on-one with Mohammed, Britain’s Prime Minister Theresa May refused to discuss key economic issues, such as bilateral trade. Instead, May, a government spokesman said, raised the Khashoggi assassination, saying Saudi Arabia needed to “take action to build confidence that such a deplorable incident could not happen again,” according to the Guardian.

A spokeswoman for the Saudi Arabian delegation declined to comment.

The specter of Khashoggi hung over the crown prince’s Buenos Aires trip since the beginning.

The 747 carrying Mohammad and a delegation of 400 Saudis landed in Buenos Aires on Wednesday, with cameras capturing the crown prince descending a staircase, resplendent in flowing robes. Argentina’s La Nacion newspaper reported the Saudis had booked rooms for the delegation at the luxurious Four Seasons Hotel in Buenos Aires — but the crown prince’s plans appeared to abruptly change.

Human Rights Watch on Monday filed a complaint with Argentine prosecutors, asking them to examine Mohammed’s alleged responsibility for the torture of Saudi citizens, atrocities in Yemen and the assassination of Khashoggi. Universal jurisdiction applies in Argentina, allowing crimes committed abroad by any national to be probed here.

By Wednesday — the day the prince landed — a federal prosecutor had begun making inquiries, and forwarded the case to an investigating judge.

Instead of retiring to the Four Seasons, Mohammed — stalked by Argentine TV cameras — stayed at the Saudi Embassy, apparently not leaving until the official start the of the summit on Friday morning.

Argentine officials say his diplomatic immunity, plus the length required for any investigation, have all but ruled out any immediate action against Mohammed during the summit. But his apparent caution suggested concern, and that his future travel plans may be marred by similar legal maneuvers.

“You can be sure other cases will be filed when Mohammed travels,” Vivanco said. “Where ever he goes, he will be under scrutiny.”

 

[Howl]

Quote

The 747 carrying Mohammad and a delegation of 400 Saudis 

I find myself......shocked by this.  That there are 400 people traveling with him or that one plane can carry 400 people, not sure which.....

[GreyhoundFan]

9 hours ago, Howl said:

I find myself......shocked by this.  That there are 400 people traveling with him or that one plane can carry 400 people, not sure which.....

Virgin Atlantic crams 455 people on their Boeing 747s.

[onekidanddone]

5 minutes ago, GreyhoundFan said:

Virgin Atlantic crams 455 people on their Boeing 747s.

@GreyhoundFan the seat plan looks like an over crowded Red Line Metro train in the sky.

[Howl]

I was thinking it looked like the diagram of a slave ship.  Also wondering what Premium Economy is like. 

[GreyhoundFan]

12 minutes ago, onekidanddone said:

@GreyhoundFan the seat plan looks like an over crowded Red Line Metro train in the sky.

You are so right. I live off the Silver Line, but the Red Line has it's own corner in hell.

 

10 minutes ago, Howl said:

I was thinking it looked like the diagram of a slave ship.  Also wondering what Premium Economy is like. 

Here's a comparison of the cabins, with pictures. Even the upper class pods look cramped and uncomfortable. I'm a big travel nerd and love to compare different planes and trains.

[fraurosena]

I am not a particular fan of his political views, but damn, I absolutely love what Mark Rutte does here. He's the one with the outstretched hand... 

 

[Howl]

Damn!  That's some hard core shunning...by everyone. 

 It's notable that at the G20, he's the only person not wearing western clothes.  Not a bad thing, I guess.  He's kind of a schlubby guy. 

This got me curious, so I googled. When MBS was in the US in 2016 on a charm offensive, he wore a casual sports coat, white shirt with no tie, and jeans when meeting with Zuckerberg and other business people and in the one picture with the article referenced below, he'd shaped and trimmed his beard. 

From Arab News: Prince's casual outfits send a message

ETA: @GreyhoundFan, I went to see Crazy Rich Asians awhile back.  The scene featuring their airborne "suite" was pretty amazing.  It's a fictitious airline, but not far off the mark.  Here ya go:

CRAZY RICH ASIANS: DOES THE AIRLINE IN THE MOVIE ACTUALLY EXIST?

 

 

Edited December 3, 2018 by Howl

[GreyhoundFan]

45 minutes ago, Howl said:

ETA: @GreyhoundFan, I went to see Crazy Rich Asians awhile back.  The scene featuring their airborne "suite" was pretty amazing.  It's a fictitious airline, but not far off the mark.  Here ya go:

CRAZY RICH ASIANS: DOES THE AIRLINE IN THE MOVIE ACTUALLY EXIST?

Ooh, thanks for the article.  I loved that movie, especially Awkwafina, who just stole the show! I was wondering if they were showing a "real" suite from one of the luxury first class cabins from a real airline. I would love to fly in a suite like that! Of course, I need to win the lottery first.

[Howl]

CNN has a scoop on the anti-MBS communications sent by Khashoggi to a Saudi exile in Canada with similar leanings.  Saudi interception of the WhasApp communications and other encrypted apps, using anti-encryption technology developed by an Israeli company,  most certainly led to his death.  IIRC, the Saudi population skews young, and Khashoggi was sorting out how to tap into that population.  Khashoggi was very, very concerned about MBS's lust for power and control and wanted to make sure that the younger element of the Saudi population were aware of what MBS was really about, using social media.

Jamal Khashoggi's private WhatsApp messages may offer new clues to killing

 

[Howl]

Some (hopefully) good news.  After 50 wounded Houthis were evacuated to Oman on a plane provided by Kuwait, a Houthi delegation is headed to Sweden tomorrow to begin peace talks with the Saudis starting as soon as Wednesday.

A Reuters article notes that 

Quote

Western powers, which provide arms and intelligence to the coalition, may now have greater leverage to demand action on Yemen after outrage over the murder of Saudi journalist Jamal Khashoggi in Riyadh’s consulate in Istanbul led to increased scrutiny of the kingdom’s activities in the region.

The U.S. Senate is due to consider this week a resolution to end support for the conflict, seen as a proxy war between Saudi Arabia and its arch-foe in the Middle East, Iran.

Iran claims to support the peace talks.

Quote

[U.N. special envoy Martin] Griffiths hopes to reach a deal on reopening Sanaa airport and securing a prisoner swap and a ceasefire in Hodeidah as a foundation for a wider ceasefire, which would include a halt to coalition air strikes that have killed thousands of civilians as well as Houthi missile attacks on Saudi cities.

Yemen talks set to start in Sweden after wounded Houthis evacuated

 

Edited December 4, 2018 by Howl

[Howl]

Correction to my post above.  The Saudis are not attending the peace talks in Sweden -- it's a UN deal -- but they could be on board with an agreement.   The situation in Yemen is extremely *complicated* with many factions and shifting alliances and one area wanting to secede and become its own country.

Al Jazeera has an excellent summary article.  All you need to know about the Yemen peace talks   As some of the key players in Yemen's war meet in Sweden, is peace finally within reach?

The Khashoggi assassination, subsequent coverage and global outrage seem to have truly changed the dynamic relative to the Saudis and provided some leverage to end the war in Yemen.  Also, it's exposed charade of the MSB "progressive reformer" charm offensive, revealing him as the most brutal of despots. 

Edited December 4, 2018 by Howl

[AmazonGrace]

He also said that if Mattis and Pompeo were in a Dem admin he'd be all over them for being in the Saudi pocket. But they're Republicans, so Graham will do nothing. 

[47of74]

Get the popcorn ready folks for when fuckhead finds out about this

[AmazonGrace]

 

[Howl]

As of yesterday (Monday, Dec. 3), on CNN Pompeo was still barfing out the party line that there is no direct evidence that MBS is directly linked to the Khashoggi assassination. 

Two articles above the article described above, there's this from Corker after Gina Haspel briefed Senators: 

Saudi crown prince 'ordered, monitored' killing of Khashoggi, Corker says

People, get your damned stories straight! 

Edited December 4, 2018 by Howl

[GreyhoundFan]

"Saudi-funded lobbyist paid for 500 rooms at Trump’s hotel after 2016 election"

Spoiler

Lobbyists representing the Saudi government reserved blocks of rooms at President Trump’s D.C. hotel within a month of Trump’s election in 2016 — paying for an estimated 500 nights at the luxury hotel in just three months, according to organizers of the trips and documents obtained by The Washington Post.

At the time, these lobbyists were reserving large numbers of D.C.-area hotel rooms as part of an unorthodox campaign that offered U.S. military veterans a free trip to Washington — then sent them to Capitol Hill to lobby against a law the Saudis opposed, according to veterans and organizers.

At first, Saudi lobbyists put the veterans up in Northern Virginia. Then, in December 2016, they switched most of their business to the Trump International Hotel in downtown Washington. In all, the lobbyists spent more than $270,000 to house six groups of visiting veterans at the Trump hotel, which Trump still owns.

Those bookings have fueled a pair of federal lawsuits alleging Trump violated the Constitution by taking improper payments from foreign governments.

During this period, records show, the average nightly rate at the hotel was $768. The lobbyists who ran the trips say they chose Trump’s hotel strictly because it offered a discount from that rate and had rooms available, not to curry favor with Trump.

“Absolutely not. It had nothing to do with that. Not one bit,” said Michael Gibson, a Maryland-based political operative who helped organize the trips.

Some of the veterans who stayed at Trump’s hotel say they were kept in the dark about the Saudis’ role in the trips. Now, they wonder if they were used twice over: not just to deliver someone else’s message to Congress, but also to deliver business to the Trump Organization.

“It made all the sense in the world, when we found out that the Saudis had paid for it,” Henry Garcia, a Navy veteran from San Antonio who went on three trips. He said the organizers never said anything about Saudi Arabia when they invited him.

He believed the trips were organized by other veterans, but that puzzled him, because this group spent money like no veterans group he had ever worked with. There were private hotel rooms, open bars, free dinners. Then, Garcia said, one of the organizers who had been drinking minibar champagne mentioned a Saudi prince.

“I said, ‘Oh, we were just used to give Trump money,’ ” Garcia said.

The Washington firm Qorvis/MSLGroup, which has long represented the Saudi government in the United States, paid the organizers of the “veterans fly-in” trips, according to lobbying disclosure forms. The firm declined to comment.

The Saudi Embassy did not respond to questions for this story. Trump hotel executives, speaking on the condition of anonymity to discuss their clients, said they were unaware at the time that Saudi Arabia was ultimately footing the bill and declined to comment on the rates they offer to guests.

The existence of the Saudi-funded stays at Trump’s hotel were reported by several news outlets last year. But reviews of emails, agendas and disclosure forms from Saudi lobbyists and interviews this fall with two dozen veterans provide far more detail about the extent of the trips and the organizers’ interactions with veterans than have previously been reported.

That reporting showed a total of six trips, during which the groups grew larger after the initial visit and the stays increased over time. The Post estimated the Saudi government paid for more than 500 nights in Trump hotel rooms, based on planning documents and agendas given to the veterans, and conversations with organizers.

These transactions have become ammunition for plaintiffs in two lawsuits alleging that Trump violated the Constitution’s foreign emoluments clause by taking payments from foreign governments. On Tuesday, the attorneys general in Maryland and the District subpoenaed 13 Trump business entities and 18 competing businesses, largely in search of records of foreign spending at the hotel.

Earlier this year, the Trump Organization donated about $151,000 to the U.S. Treasury, saying that was its amount of profits from foreign governments, without explaining how it arrived at that number. The Justice Department, defending Trump in the lawsuits, says the Constitution doesn’t bar routine business transactions.

Next year, the transactions will also face scrutiny from the House’s new Democratic majority. Democrats have said they want to understand Trump’s business connections with the Saudi government in the aftermath of the killing of Post contributing columnist Jamal Khashoggi in a Saudi Consulate in Turkey.

“Foreign countries understand that they can curry favor with the president by patronizing his businesses,” said Rep. Adam B. Schiff (D-Calif.), who will lead the House Intelligence Committee next year. “It presents a real problem, in that it may work.” The White House declined to comment.

When these trips began, in late 2016, the Saudi government was on a losing streak in Washington.

In late September, Congress had overridden a veto from President Barack Obama and passed a law the Saudis vehemently opposed: the Justice Against Sponsors of Terrorism Act, called “JASTA.” The new law, backed by the families of Sept. 11 victims, opened the door to costly litigation alleging that the Saudi government bore some blame. Of the 19 hijackers involved in the attacks, 15 were Saudi citizens.

In response, the Saudis tried something new. To battle one of America’s most revered groups — the Sept. 11 families — they recruited allies from another.

They went looking for veterans.

“Welcome Home Brother!” wrote Jason E. Johns, an Army veteran and Wisconsin lobbyist, to several veterans in December 2016, according to identical emails two veterans shared with The Post. Johns invited the veterans, whom he did not know personally, on a trip to “storm the Hill” to lobby against the law.

“Lodging at the Trump International Hotel, all expense paid,” Johns wrote in the emails. Johns’s email signature said he was with “N.M.L.B. Veterans Advocacy Group,” which is Johns’s law firm in Madison, Wis.

According to filings with the Justice Department, Johns was actually making the overtures on behalf of the Saudi government. The Saudis’ longtime lobbyist, Qorvis, was paying Gibson, who in turn was paying Johns.

The first trip Johns organized, in mid-November 2016, was small and short: about 22 veterans, staying two nights at the Westin in Crystal City, Va. — on the other side of the Potomac River, separated from Capitol Hill by four miles and one big traffic jam. Gibson — who helped organized the trips — said another fly-in was held at the Westin later the same month.

Then, on Dec. 2, 2016, Gibson said he was told by Qorvis to organize another visit on very short notice — with the attendees to arrive in just a few days. Gibson said the Westin was booked. So were many other hotels he tried.

“I just out of the blue decided, ‘Why not call the Trump hotel?’ ” he said. “I said I was representing a client, a group of veterans . . . Did they offer any discounts for veterans? And they said yes, they did have availability.” They also offered a lower rate, he said.

After that trip, Gibson said, Qorvis asked him to schedule more trips for 2017. They didn’t tell him to go back to the Trump hotel. But the first trip had gone well. So he did.

In all, there were five more trips in January and February, according to documents and interviews. The number of attendees rose to 50 on one trip in late January, and the trips extended to three nights, according to agendas sent to veterans. That also was the clients’ call. Gibson said he never told any Trump hotel staff that the Saudis were paying: “I did all this on my corporate credit card for my client, who was Qorvis, and said I was bringing a group of veterans to work on legislation.”

Veterans who attended these trips said a few things surprised them.

One was how good their group seemed to be at spending money.

“We’ve done hundreds of veterans events, and we’ve stayed in Holiday Inns and eaten Ritz Crackers and lemonade. And we’re staying in this hotel that costs $500 a night,” said Dan Cord, a Marine veteran. “I’d never seen anything like this. They were like, ‘That’s what’s so cool! Drink on us.’ ”

Each trip included one, and sometimes two, dinners in a Trump hotel banquet room. There was usually an open bar in the room, veterans said, and it was always supposed to end at a certain hour — but often, they said, Johns would theatrically declare an extension.

“He’d be like, ‘You know what, just put it on for another hour!” said Scott Bartels, an Army veteran from Wisconsin who went on three trips.

Another surprise, veterans said, was how bad their group seemed to be at lobbying.

Veterans said they were told that the new law might cause other countries to retaliate, and might lead to U.S. veterans being prosecuted overseas for what their units had done in war. They were given a few fact sheets — including one with small print at the bottom, reading “This is distributed by Qorvis MSLGROUP on behalf of the Royal Embassy of Saudi Arabia.”

But they said they weren’t given detailed briefings about how the law ought to be amended, or policy briefings to leave behind for legislators to study.

The timing also was odd. They returned five times in January and February, when the issue was largely dormant and Washington was distracted by a new president’s inauguration. They were sent, again and again, for dead-end meetings with legislators who had made up their minds.

“The fourth time I saw Grassley’s guy, he was like, ‘Hey, what [else] is going on?’ We didn’t even talk about the bill,” said Robert Suesakul, an Army veteran from Iowa, about his fourth visit to the office of Sen. Charles E. Grassley (R-Iowa). It had been clear after the first trip that Grassley wasn’t interested in amending the bill. “It didn’t make sense hitting these guys a fourth time.”

Another problem: In some cases, congressional staffers confronted them because they knew who was funding these trips.

Even if the veterans did not.

“We’d walk in there, and they’d go, ‘Are you the veterans that are getting bribed?’ ” Suesakul said.

In a phone interview, Johns said it was disappointing to hear veterans claim they were “duped” and that he had always made clear, at the opening night’s dinner, that the Saudi government was paying. He said the veterans in attendance were all told that if they didn’t like it they could go home.

“I said, ‘Look, I’m a fellow vet, and I am working with a PR firm here, and Saudi Arabia funded” the trip, Johns said.

But another organizer, Army veteran Dustin Tinsley, didn’t remember Johns telling everyone about the Saudi involvement. He did say he felt veterans should have done their own research or asked.

“When I was asked directly, ‘Is Saudi Arabia paying for this?’ I would say yes, and out of [all of them] not a single one of them said, ‘I don’t want to be a part of this,’ ” Tinsley said.

Several veterans disputed Johns’s account, saying they were not told of the source of the funding — or that the news had only slipped out later, after repeated questioning or strong drink.

“One of the guys had a little too much to drink,” said Gary Ard, a Navy veteran from Texas, describing an encounter with one of Johns’s aides after the aide had been drinking at the Trump hotel. “He kind of raises up his hands, and he says, ‘Thank you, Saudi prince!’ ”

Ard quit going after two trips. He said he felt guilty, for having unwittingly gathered political intelligence for a foreign power.

“We’re taking that heart-to-heart conversation [with legislators], writing it down, and giving it to a group of people whom I don’t know,” Ard said. “And my fear in that is we’re going to create a pool of insight to what congressmen, what senators can be approached, and what their mind-sets are. And that’s completely wrong.”

The last trip to the Trump hotel was in mid-February 2017, after the first news reports outed Johns as a Saudi contractor. Johns himself said he wasn’t sure how much the trips had cost: The bills for the hotel rooms didn’t go to him, and he never saw how much the rooms cost.

In a filing with the Justice Department — required of U.S. firms working as agents for foreign powers — Qorvis said it had spent $190,000 on lodging at the Trump hotel, and another $82,000 on catering and parking.

The figure for lodging works out to about $360 per person per night, which is far below the Trump hotel’s average rate for the same period. In financial records accidentally released last year by the General Services Administration, which owns the building, the Trump Organization said it received an average nightly rate for January and February of $768.67 — a price inflated by high demand around the inauguration.

Since February 2017, Saudi customers have boosted the bottom line at two other Trump hotels. In Chicago, the Trump hotel’s internal statistics showed a sharp uptick in customers from Saudi Arabia after Trump took office. In New York this year, the general manager of Trump’s hotel at Central Park said a single stay by some Saudi customers — who were traveling with Crown Prince Muhammed bin Salman — was so lucrative, it helped the hotel turn a profit for the quarter.

 

[Howl]

I have to wonder if Mattis and Pompeo were fully briefed by the CIA or the WH.  Mattis implied that they were given transcripts and documents with all of the relevant information and that there was no smoking gun. 

Then Gina Haspel (head of CIA) gives a briefing to a very limited number of senators and they're all like, "He did it!". 

Given the politics in this administration, somebody might be jerking somebody around.  Just for an example, there was some bad blood between Mattis and Ricardel (allied with Bolton) during the transition, when Ricardel blocked Mattis' choices for high level positions at DoD, because those people were tainted by working in the Obama admin. 

Bolton and Ricardel were rumored to have started a whisper campaign last month to get Mattis ousted.  Then Ricardel gets a big boot in the ass for crossing Melania, and maybe Bolton is playing hard ball and jerking Mattis around by feeding him incomplete information and Pompeo is collateral damage. 

Really, this kind of shit could be going on; you never know. 

Edited December 6, 2018 by Howl

[Howl]

OK, this may seem like epic thread drift, but keep with me here.  If Mattis ends up on the curb over Khashoggi, my instincts were right.

Relative to my post above about palace intrigue and infighting among experienced infighters, I googled "gina haspel + mira ricardel"  Which dragged in Ricardel, Bolton, Mattis, Haspel.  Candidate Trump famously was in favor of more waterboarding and torture, although he hasn't mentioned that during his presidency or at least recently. Gina Haspel, as you may recall, was head of a post-9-11 enhanced interrogation torture site  in Thailand.  Tapes and video from those sites have been destroyed. 

Also recall that after Ricardel (as part of the Trump transition team) blocked Mattis' pick for a high level DoD position, Mattis subsequently blocked Ricardel from a position at DoD.  My google search returned this result from the Financial Times from April 25, 2018, when Gina Haspel had been nominated to head CIA but had not been formally approved.  The article was discussing how you could really know where Haspel's loyalties lie when darker parts of a her CIA past were not available for review. 

Anyway, an excerpt from the Financial Times April 2018 article, discussing Bolton, Pompeo, Ricardel, Mattis.   

CIA nominee’s insider history raises deep state fears  Only following White House orders will be no defence for the agency’s decisions

Spoiler

In his [SecDef] job interview, the former general [Mattis] told Mr Trump that torture does not work. “Give me a pack of cigarettes and a couple of beers and I do better with that,” he said. As long as Mr Mattis is around, Mr Trump will be wary of crossing that red line.

But Mr Mattis is a lonelier figure than he was a few weeks ago. Both John Bolton, the national security adviser, and Michael Pompeo, the nominee for secretary of state, are far more in tune with Mr Trump’s instincts. Mr Bolton has replaced much of the national security staff with people who share his worldview. His new deputy is Mira Ricardel, who was blocked by Mr Mattis for a Pentagon position. She was also vetoed by the office of Rex Tillerson, the recently fired secretary of state. Now she has real power. One of her goals is to exert White House control over the Pentagon. Whether Mr Mattis survives is an open question. He once joked that Mr Bolton was the “devil incarnate”. Perhaps there was an edge to his humour.

I don't for one second think that Ricardel (who got a booted from the WH courtesy of Melania) has no influence (using Bolton as a proxy) and it doesn't take much of a stretch to imagine that she might aspire to be SecDef herself. 

Time will tell.  The Pompeo/Mattis presentation to the full Senate (there's no smoking gun!) made them look weak and ill informed.  Then Haspel shows up and it's a slam dunk.  I'm just very, very suspicious about what's going on. 

Here's a bit more on the conflict between Ricardel and Mattis over DoD appointees: March 2018 Sources: Mattis, Ricardel clashed over Pentagon appointees

ETA: And don't forget John Kelly:  From VOX

"Chief of Staff John Kelly reportedly sided with Mattis and has long sought to oust Ricardel from her role with the NSC."  Remember that Kelly and Mattis are personal friends and peers. 

I cannot even come close to imagining the epic shit storms that hit on the West Wing on a daily, if not hourly, basis. 

Edited December 6, 2018 by Howl