Erin and Chad 4: Hoping She Loses the Polka Dot Cape

[lumpentheologie]

To me the "cleaning my floors" and "watching my babies" makes it sound like Chad doesn't live there and isn't even the kids' father, which I'm sure is not what she's going for. 

[BennettLeland]

OK this is a random question/thought but something which has always surprised me is that Chad moved to TN and not the other way around with Erin moving to (is it Oklahoma)? The reason I find this surprising is simply because of the very patriarchal nature of their fundie beliefs. I would think it would be expected that the women follow the men. I suppose the same thought could be posed for Bobby and Tori. 

Edited March 19, 2019 by BennettLeland

[RosyDaisy]

I think Chad was the only son-in-law Gil could persuade to stay in Tennessee.

[QuiverFullofBooks]

3 hours ago, RosyDaisy said:

I think Chad was the only son-in-law Gil could persuade to stay in Tennessee.

Didn’t Bobby and Evan move there from Florida? Kelton is from there, but he still lives there too.

[mollysmom]

I just think Brookie is the cutest little thing ever. (as evidenced by my choice of avatar haha) 

[TeaELSee]

2 hours ago, QuiverFullofBooks said:

Didn’t Bobby and Evan move there from Florida? Kelton is from there, but he still lives there too.

Evan is from the Nashville area, Carlin is moving up there when they get married.

[VelociRapture]

2 hours ago, QuiverFullofBooks said:

Didn’t Bobby and Evan move there from Florida? Kelton is from there, but he still lives there too.

- Chad moved from Oklahoma to Tennessee

- John is from Florida. Alyssa moved to his state

- Brandon is from, I believe, Michigan. He and Michael both moved to Illinois to work at IBLP Headquarters

- Bobby moved from Florida to Tennessee

- Whitney, Kelton, and Evan are all from Tennessee

8 hours ago, BennettLeland said:

OK this is a random question/thought but something which has always surprised me is that Chad moved to TN and not the other way around with Erin moving to (is it Oklahoma)? The reason I find this surprising is simply because of the very patriarchal nature of their fundie beliefs. I would think it would be expected that the women follow the men. I suppose the same thought could be posed for Bobby and Tori. 

Chad moved so that Erin could finish her college degree. I think she took extra courses a few semesters so she’d be able to take the fall 2013 semester off for the wedding without it setting her back. I don’t know if this is accurate or not (maybe someone else could confirm or correct), but I want to say I remember reading somewhere that the plan was for them to eventually return to Oklahoma. The plan was changed after Erin’s miscarriages as they felt it was better to be close to Erin’s support system. 

(Again, I don’t know if this is completely accurate or not. I’m just going off what I remember reading somewhere a while ago, but I could be remembering wrong.) 

[neurogirl]

I think Erin is vain and has willingly swallowed the kool aid but it's easy to understand why - she and other girls in her community were taught they if they loved Jesus, were beautiful, and submitted to their daddies then the Lord would bring them their one true love (like a Disney princess) and they would live happily ever after. And that happened for her! The system works for Erin and I think her sharing about her hot "perfect" husband is her ministry - like, wow it works! 

As an aside, I would wear a princess costume like Erin's to a family party like that. My avatar is Rapunzel and I am still Disney princess-loving like I was when I was a child. We have a dog named Princess Peach and my husband and I joke that there are two princesses in our household. Hubby will call us (me and dog) "my princesses" and it's fine because he and I strive to be equal in house maintenance, emotional labor, etc. I'm also very much a scientist and have other parts of my personality to bring to the table, but yeah I do love princesses still (and truthfully, have always had interests that are usually for younger people/immature?).

But the "princess" label seems a little mysogynistic here. There's nothing wrong with having preferences and in the IBLP setup, Chad has the final say on everything. Erin can ask for things but Chad can always say no. I think the manipulation angle is similar to being Minnesota nice. Being outwardly passive but actually meaning more than you say because it's rude (or in this case ungodly) to be more direct. Besides maybe the raised platform example, I haven't seen a pattern of Erin specifically taking advantage of Chad. 

 I think Erin can be judged for her anti-choice messages, her potential favoritism towards Carson, squishing 3(+??) kids, a dog, and two goats into a two-bedroom house, and indoctrinating her children, but not for the pink bedroom or the princess costume to a themed party. Seriously, if Chad were really against the pink bedroom he could've said something. Alyssa's wedding colors and Erin's pink bedroom are not character flaws. 

All of this to say, I get what people mean when they say Erin might be a princess. But TLDR not all princesses?

 

Edited March 21, 2019 by neurogirl

[Hisey]

1 hour ago, neurogirl said:

But the "princess" label seems a little mysogynistic here.

I agree. I actually see that a lot on the fundie boards. People saying things that, while against fundamentalism, still seem mysogynistic. For example:

Saying Erin is a princess because she plays piano, spends time practicing, is conventionally attractive, has the "look" of a (Caucasian) Disney princess, has parents who are proud of her musical ability. Why do these things make her a princess? I think they make her a talented and attractive woman, not a princess.

Saying Michelle Duggar "wears the pants" in the family, as though there were something wrong with that. Frankly, if a woman wears the pants in a fundie family, I'm glad! Is it better if she were submissive and silent? Of course not.

Saying Michelle Duggar or Kelly Bates are lazy for having help with childcare.  What's wrong a mom having help, anyway? Besides, there's a thousand other chores associated with having 19 kids, so I tend to doubt these women are lazy. Neglectful, yes. . . possibly abusive, yes. . . extremely stupid, definitely. But not lazy.

Saying Michelle Duggar or Kelly Bates are inadequate for not cooking homemade meals for 21 people 3x a day. Can you imagine how exhausting that would be? Why would we expect any woman to do that? If they've found some wiggle room in fundamentalism that makes it ok for them to buy some prepared foods, I think that's great. Hopefully, they'll spend the extra time reading their kids a book.

[Melissa1977]

@Hisey if a woman says her only career and option in her life is to be a wife and a mother, then yes, we can critisize that she's not mothering her kids or that she's unable to feed them properly. 

If a woman says she wants to submit and that husband is the boss, while she is controlling his decisions (being bossy or being passive agressive), yes of course we can critisize her hiprocrisy.

If someone is saying people shouldn't eat meat, but that person eats hamburgers, I'm going to critisize his or her choice. Not because the message, but because the lie.

Some fundies brainwash others or force them to take extreme decisions, but then they do the opposite way!

*finally, Erin was raised a princess because had less chores than her sisters. I used to follow Bates old blog. It was blatant, she was treated as a star, while Michael and Alyssa were Cinderellas.

[HarleyQuinn]

I never read the Bates blog back in the day, why did Erin get so much favoritism?  I didn't realize she had less chores than the others. 

[TeaELSee]

5 hours ago, Melissa1977 said:

finally, Erin was raised a princess because had less chores than her sisters. I used to follow Bates old blog. It was blatant, she was treated as a star, while Michael and Alyssa were Cinderellas.

Is the old blog gone? I would love to read it!

[Melissa1977]

3 hours ago, TeaELSee said:

Is the old blog gone? I would love to read it!

Kelly closed it. It was great to snark, they wore frumpers and didn't hide their fundamentalist connections. 

[Hisey]

If a woman says she does a foolish thing (like obeying her husband without question or never using childcare) . . and then she doesn't actually do it. . . why is that a bad thing? Makes her a bit of a hypocrite, but other than that I think it's a good thing. She's less likely to be exhausted if she buys 3 lasagnas instead of making them, and she'll see her kids won't die.

Shortcuts like these means they are inching their way away from fundamentalist rigidity, and their children are better off for it.

I read the old blog, and I don't really remember it. I do remember some unattractive dresses that Michael sewed, but that seemed her hobby, not a chore (it is far cheaper to buy dresses than sew them).

Do you have any quotes from it? I don't remember anything indicating Erin being the favorite and Alyssa/Michael being drudges. Would they really say such things, anyway? Seems like it would have harmed the brand they were developing. If they really did such things, I think they'd do their best to hide it.

Edited March 21, 2019 by Hisey

[rebeccawriter01]

9 hours ago, Melissa1977 said:

@Hisey if a woman says her only career and option in her life is to be a wife and a mother, then yes, we can critisize that she's not mothering her kids or that she's unable to feed them properly. 

If a woman says she wants to submit and that husband is the boss, while she is controlling his decisions (being bossy or being passive agressive), yes of course we can critisize her hiprocrisy.

If someone is saying people shouldn't eat meat, but that person eats hamburgers, I'm going to critisize his or her choice. Not because the message, but because the lie.

Some fundies brainwash others or force them to take extreme decisions, but then they do the opposite way!

*finally, Erin was raised a princess because had less chores than her sisters. I used to follow Bates old blog. It was blatant, she was treated as a star, while Michael and Alyssa were Cinderellas.

She was the princess. Where Michael did the laundry, sewed, took care of the youngest ones, and cooked while babysitting/nannying and being a volunteer EMT and Alyssa did the cooking and other tasks (pretty much anything that wasn't covered by Michael, Erin taught piano to the younger siblings and was given time to practice and pursue her music whether performing at church or going to Crown. You can blatantly see it on the TLC show too, as Kelly Jo requires each of the girls to learn how to fry chicken. There had already been discussion that Erin did not know how to cook, yet she was not required to learn even basic dishes like most of the rest. This was where Tori said she didn't need to learn to cook until she had a "feller." Erin appeared to be given special treatment that her sisters and even some of her brothers didn't enjoy when she got to fly the nest and attend Crown. Later it became a family norm, but even Michael wasn't considered able to get an education until after Erin's experience. 

Even the sleeping arrangements were changed to suit Erin. The claim was that it was due to her college schedule, but she was allowed to move into a smaller bedroom with one of the younger girls while the others bunked together. From the best people can gather, Michael gave up that room as her own and moved in with the other girls to allow Erin to have a bit more privacy. It wasn't a room of her own, but in comparison to sleeping with five or six other girls, it was certainly better. 

She's carried that over with Chad and the pink bedroom of nightmares, flea filled puppies, as well as her desire for a new baby after new baby when her health could suffer for it and her husband looks ready to drop. You don't really see her sacrifice the way that Chad does or others in the family do. 

She's very much like her mother in that respect. Gil doesn't really say no to his wife either. Tori seems to be trying out that same behavior, but I'm not sure Bobby is totally on board with that. 

[nokidsmom]

44 minutes ago, rebeccawriter01 said:

Erin appeared to be given special treatment that her sisters and even some of her brothers didn't enjoy when she got to fly the nest and attend Crown.

I agree that she was given special treatment largely because of her piano talent.   Between practicing and teaching the younger kids, then studying at Crown, she got out of a lot of work that her other sisters had to shoulder.   While she honestly had to do these things, at the same time, she appeared to get out of other things that were not related to her piano teaching and study, that special treatment bled over into other areas.    She got used to it and she went into her marriage with Chad with this "princess" mindset.  That's always trouble, sooner or later IMHO.   While they seem (seemed?) happy, I wonder when that was going to get difficult for Chad.  He seems to be constantly doing what she wants, including work for her family, that she appeared to "volunteer" him for.    But now he seems really, really tired. 

44 minutes ago, rebeccawriter01 said:

She's very much like her mother in that respect. Gil doesn't really say no to his wife either.

I am coming to realize that Erin is a mini-Kelly and she picked Chad in part because he worships the ground she walks on, like her Dad with her Mom, hotness aside.   There is one critical difference between her father and her husband and that is Chad is hard working while Gil is a lazy ass. 

[backyard sylph]

3 hours ago, Hisey said:

(it is far cheaper to buy dresses than sew them).

It's not that germane to the conversation overall, but I disagree with this, especially if you are using the same pattern over again, and buying large amounts of fabric to make dresses for more than one person. 

If you're good at it, you can make a whole wardrobe, even in 2019, for a fraction of buying one. Good fabrics go on sale, you buy them when they are, and you learn to modify patterns to suit your taste. 

[VelociRapture]

4 hours ago, rebeccawriter01 said:

She was the princess. Where Michael did the laundry, sewed, took care of the youngest ones, and cooked while babysitting/nannying and being a volunteer EMT and Alyssa did the cooking and other tasks (pretty much anything that wasn't covered by Michael, Erin taught piano to the younger siblings and was given time to practice and pursue her music whether performing at church or going to Crown. You can blatantly see it on the TLC show too, as Kelly Jo requires each of the girls to learn how to fry chicken. There had already been discussion that Erin did not know how to cook, yet she was not required to learn even basic dishes like most of the rest. This was where Tori said she didn't need to learn to cook until she had a "feller." Erin appeared to be given special treatment that her sisters and even some of her brothers didn't enjoy when she got to fly the nest and attend Crown. Later it became a family norm, but even Michael wasn't considered able to get an education until after Erin's experience. 

Even the sleeping arrangements were changed to suit Erin. The claim was that it was due to her college schedule, but she was allowed to move into a smaller bedroom with one of the younger girls while the others bunked together. From the best people can gather, Michael gave up that room as her own and moved in with the other girls to allow Erin to have a bit more privacy. It wasn't a room of her own, but in comparison to sleeping with five or six other girls, it was certainly better. 

She's carried that over with Chad and the pink bedroom of nightmares, flea filled puppies, as well as her desire for a new baby after new baby when her health could suffer for it and her husband looks ready to drop. You don't really see her sacrifice the way that Chad does or others in the family do. 

She's very much like her mother in that respect. Gil doesn't really say no to his wife either. Tori seems to be trying out that same behavior, but I'm not sure Bobby is totally on board with that. 

I thought Alyssa and Josie were the ones who shared a room. I don’t remember hearing anything about Erin having a room with just one sister. Do you remember when this was?

 

9 hours ago, TeaELSee said:

Is the old blog gone? I would love to read it!

You can find parts of it on the Wayback a Machine. I’m almost positive they switched URLs at some point, but some of it is in there. Go to:

https://archive.org/web/

And search for:

https://thebatesfamily.com/

The first few years with hits belong to another family. Try looking around the 2012/2013 mark.

[Hisey]

Was Erin treated like a princess? Unless we lived in the  the Bates' house, we really can't know for sure.

I think, though, that for *us* to call her a princess simply because she was attractive, talented and spent time playing the piano. . . in other words, trying to live the life of a  normal, healthy teenager. . .that seems mean and misogynist. Is it better for her to be a silent drudge?

If Kelly and Gil gave her special privileges, well, they weren't doing her any favors. It's tough to be the golden child in a family. Your siblings often resent you. It's not a healthy way to grow up. 

[nausicaa]

3 hours ago, VelociRapture said:

I thought Alyssa and Josie were the ones who shared a room. I don’t remember hearing anything about Erin having a room with just one sister. Do you remember when this was?

I remember Alyssa having the room as well. 

And while I'm sure others have followed the Bateses longer than I have, I have been reading their blog since late 2012 (when everyone still lived at home). I genuinely don't remember Erin ever getting fewer chores. I do remember Gil and Kelly forcing her to turn down a music scholarship to UT. Crown and its dubious music department was the compromise.

[singsingsing]

I also read their old blog regularly back in the day, and I also recall that Alyssa was the one who shared a room with only one other sister (and the explanation was that they were both more introverted and noise-averse). I also have no recollection of Erin getting special treatment. Erin got a lot of attention for her musical abilities and because she was the first daughter to court and marry.

I don't remember Erin being forced to turn down a music scholarship. I remember on an episode of 19K&C when she was playing the piano at one of the weddings, she said someone had just offered her a full scholarship... but whether it was real, or her parents made her refuse, or she herself didn't want to accept it, I have no idea. 

The old blog was fantastic. Kelly used to answer questions all the time. The fundamentalism was more on display (I think - I don't watch their show, but from what I hear they're presenting a pretty glossed-over image these days) but they were already SUPER EXTRA especially when it came to courtship and marriage proposals. It also contained the chronicle of Zach's painfully awkward courtship with Sarah Reith, among other gems.

[llucie]

The ones with the smaller room were Alyssa and Josie, it was explained by Kelly that Alyssa didn't like the noise and the mess in the crowded big room. It was never said why Josie went too, at the time i assumed it was so they could "supervise" each other, but now that i know that at one point Josie had problems with her sisters (according to one of Gil sermons) maybe that was the reason, to pull her away from there so they would stop fighting.

I am pretty sure that i also have read about Erin receiving a student scholarship in a real university. But do we know it was her parents decision to reject it? for all we know "scared of green hair" Erin may have found dificult to go to secular college.

I do think Erin was a treated like a princess by Kelly since she got away with almost no child care and house chores despite being the second oldest daughter, and you can tell she is her favorite daughter. But i don't think it is the same with Gil. He didn't even pay for her piano degree, Lawson had to pay it with his lawnmower business, if she was his golden daughter, or even if he was in the slightest proud of her accomplishment, you would think he would be happy paying for it.

[miss_batson]

On 3/18/2019 at 10:53 AM, miss_batson said:

According to Erin, Chad moped HER floors and watched HER babies. Waching babies is what bugs me. In my house its called parenting not watching. And as i read the IG comments, she got a alot of negative comments about it. She maybe have choosen wrong words to interpret her toughts but it is as it is. 

Erin disenabled comments for these post. Probably got to many negative comments. ?

 

[TeaELSee]

13 hours ago, VelociRapture said:

I thought Alyssa and Josie were the ones who shared a room. I don’t remember hearing anything about Erin having a room with just one sister. Do you remember when this was?

 

You can find parts of it on the Wayback a Machine. I’m almost positive they switched URLs at some point, but some of it is in there. Go to:

https://archive.org/web/

And search for:

https://thebatesfamily.com/

The first few years with hits belong to another family. Try looking around the 2012/2013 mark.

I’m not sure if I should thank you or not, I just spent over an hour of my life reading it!  I forgot how emotional and awkward Zach was when he asked that girl to court him. He seems like a different person now.

I’m fascinated wondering how huge families manage meals, it seems like such an overwhelming task to take on everyday. Kelly posted about going to Chick-fil-A for a free dinner promotion. She posted the following about what they order normally for 21 people.

”How does a large family stay on budget and eat at Chick-Fil-A when there’s no freebies?? We normally order 12 packs of 12 piece chicken nugget deals, 40 buttered buns (with pickles of course!), a pint of slaw, and 21 waters…next we dump the nuggets on a tray, grab a butter knife and quickly dice the nuggets. Load a bun with diced chicken, pickles, and a little slaw… and we usually go home with leftovers, believe it or not!”

That doesn’t seem like enough food  considering they had a fair number of boys older than 10 at the time.  It averages about 6 nuggets a person. I know girls eat too, but active teenage boys consume a lot of food. I can’t get over a pint of coleslaw for 21, do they each get a tablespoon?  My sons would have been left hungry even if they had 8-10 nuggets and they weigh 135-160. I guess having biscuits would help fill them up though.  

Cutting up 140 nuggets on a restaurant tray sounds depressing to me.  Fundies and food is my new obsession I’m afraid!

 

 

Edited March 22, 2019 by TeaELSee

[Screamapillar]

1 hour ago, TeaELSee said:

That doesn’t seem like enough food  considering they had a fair number of boys older than 10 at the time.  It averages about 6 nuggets a person. I know girls eat too, but active teenage boys consume a lot of food. I can’t get over a pint of coleslaw for 21, do they each get a tablespoon?  My sons would have been left hungry even if they had 8-10 nuggets and they weigh 135-160. I guess having biscuits would help fill them up though.  

Cutting up 140 nuggets on a restaurant tray sounds depressing to me.  Fundies and food is my new obsession I’m afraid!

My toddler can eat almost a whole chicken breast in one sitting if she's in the mood for it. Six chicken nuggets for teenagers is like a tiny snack.

Gross personal story alert: My older brother and I would go through the Taco Bell drive thru after tennis practice or meets in high school and we would each get a Taco 10 pack. And then usually also eat whatever my Mom made for dinner later the same evening.

And I'm sure Kelly left out the part about how her teenaged son's money was probably paying for those Chick Fil A meals, along with their groceries...