Lawson Bates 3

[QuiverDance]

On 2/6/2019 at 5:07 PM, Bobology said:

This is what SHOULD happen. I roll my eyes and shake my head at all the car washes and garage sales, etc that church groups do to raise money so they can all go take a vacation together. Kids, families, churches can pay for their own dang vacations. Seriously, why send a 15 y.o. to Belize to distribute candy and toys? Oh, yeah... the pamphlets, like @RosyDaisy just said. The only redeeming result I can think of is how it can open the eyes of privileged kids. But doesn't every single city in every state have impoverished areas?

I have an acquaintance who goes to Guatemala every December to "pray over" the children.  She collects toys and other little items from people, makes goody bags to hand out, and comes back feeling fullfilled by all her generosity.  I feel so uncharitable and mean when I internally roll my eyes, so this post makes me feel slightly better about it.  It's just so empty.  

[Pecansforeveryone]

@ColeJo, I appreciate the sincerity of your last post. It can be very difficult to question others seemingly good intentions. However, we must in order to get better as a people. The truth is, most people with maybe the exceptions being Bill Gothard and Steve Anderson,  have seemingly good intentions. Including people like Michelle and Jim Bob Duggar and Rufus forbid maybe even Mike Pence. They pass anti-lgbt legislation truly believing they are doing good and Godly work saving society from terrible sin. We know better and can call them out without hesitation. 

[formergothardite]

White Christians going over to "help" the poor brown people is so ingrained in many churches that the idea of not doing so is almost unimaginable. I know when I was still in church I never thought to question until I heard others point out the flaws in these sort of mission trips. 

 

 

[Pecansforeveryone]

I visited an orphanage with my team when I taught English in China. None of us have a thought to how emotionally and mentally complicated this was for the children or that maybe it wasn't a great idea. I would also say white saviour complex isn't limited to fundie churches. I know many moderate to liberal white churches who also struggle with white saviour complex. It can be all to pervasive. 

[HereticHick]

So, is Lawson going to be home from his missioncation in time for ILURVEU DAY?

[wandering woman]

The song that Lawson wrote and sang at Josie's wedding was just awful.

[HereticHick]

Oh course Lawson is whining on social media about being alone on Valentine's Day. Mr. Pity Party.

Edited February 15, 2019 by HereticHick

[Oh_Dear!]

For the first few seconds of the song, I thought it was Fools Rush In, sang in a different tempo.  He definitely took some liberties when it comes to borrowing from the original... quite a bit of liberties if you ask me. 

[TatiFish9]

On 2/15/2019 at 2:32 PM, wandering woman said:

The song that Lawson wrote and sang at Josie's wedding was just awful.

I like that the song was secular styled. That Josie knows how to distance herself from this lot, all the while being right there physically. Her wedding seemed the most mainstream of them all. Very limited Jesus-talk from what we were shown.

[llucie]

13 minutes ago, TatiFish9 said:

I like that the song was secular styled. That Josie knows how to distance herself from this lot, all the while being right there physically. Her wedding seemed the most mainstream of them all. Very limited Jesus-talk from what we were shown.

Didnt they edit out the part of the wedding were she vowed to be Kelton helpmeet? I am sure there was plenty Jesus talk, its just that they are trying to appear more normal.

[formergothardite]

41 minutes ago, llucie said:

Didnt they edit out the part of the wedding were she vowed to be Kelton helpmeet? I am sure there was plenty Jesus talk, its just that they are trying to appear more normal.

Exactly. It is best to not forget that the Bates heavily edit their lives for UP and their social media. What we see on those two platforms are not reality.

[TatiFish9]

3 hours ago, llucie said:

Didnt they edit out the part of the wedding were she vowed to be Kelton helpmeet? I am sure there was plenty Jesus talk, its just that they are trying to appear more normal.

Where is the info about the unedited ceremony? How do you find the Jesus-talk?

[formergothardite]

18 minutes ago, TatiFish9 said:

 How do you find the Jesus-talk?

Probably the same place where the IBLP talk is hidden!  

I haven't watched the show but I'm assuming that they didn't show the entire ceremony completely unedited. In the other Bates weddings I have seen the weddings have been edited. If I remember correctly the entire Gothard speech was edited out of Erin's wedding. 

[TatiFish9]

@formergothardite

I believe it was edited. I didn't know where we could find the uncut information about helpmeet and other Jesus-talk edited out. I hope they edit for the couples to maintain some privacy in these very intimate moments.

[llucie]

49 minutes ago, TatiFish9 said:

Where is the info about the unedited ceremony? How do you find the Jesus-talk?

I read about this in reddit, aparently when the wedding hapened there were some instastories were you could hear ir.

Its not surprising that they are editing it out. The Bates are embracing the big family but totally diferent from the Duggars image, wich is funny if you think of it because the Duggars are just followers and Gil is actually in the board of IBLP.

[formergothardite]

4 minutes ago, llucie said:

he Bates are embracing the big family but totally diferent from the Duggars image, wich is funny if you think of it because the Duggars are just followers and Gil is actually in the board of IBLP.

They try to present themselves as less crazy as the Duggars but in reality they are way more involved in crazy! They are just better at editing out the insanity. 

[TatiFish9]

2 hours ago, llucie said:

I read about this in reddit, aparently when the wedding hapened there were some instastories were you could hear ir.

Thanks, I will check Reddit. Hopefully this isn't hearsay, but has the actual video or it won't be worth my time.

2 hours ago, formergothardite said:

They try to present themselves as less crazy as the Duggars but in reality they are way more involved in crazy! They are just better at editing out the insanity. 

You think they are encouraging the younger Bates (Gen 2B) to be more worldly in their dress, approach and opinions to be different from the Duggars but behind the cameras they are still dressing modest, praying 10xs a day, Jesus talking until their tongues twist and whipping their kids into submission? Or are you talking some other kind of crazy. I think they have white privilege, sexist, homopbobic and maybe even apocalyptic tendencies/views. They're not very good at hiding that from their social media nor the show.

[llucie]

10 minutes ago, TatiFish9 said:

Thanks, I will check Reddit. Hopefully this isn't hearsay, but has the actual video or it won't be worth my time.

 

I dont know if someone recorded it, but here you have the post from 4 months ago discussing it: 

 

[formergothardite]

45 minutes ago, TatiFish9 said:

You think they are encouraging the younger Bates (Gen 2B) to be more worldly in their dress, approach and opinions to be different from the Duggars but behind the cameras they are still dressing modest, praying 10xs a day, Jesus talking until their tongues twist and whipping their kids into submission?

Crazy as in they are neck deep in a cult that teaches insane things. Sure IBLP has put on a shiny exterior, but it still teaches the same awful stuff, just with more modern clothing and hair cuts. They are good at hiding the IBLP crazy from the show and their social media. 

There is no sign of "The High Price of Sensual Woman" or "How to Dwell With Your Wife According To Knowledge" or "Good Kids vs. Godly Kids" in their social media or show. Those are just some of the lectures Gil and Kelly sell through IBLP.  That is the crazy they are hiding. Erin Bates also still sells her music through IBLP. 

Edited February 19, 2019 by formergothardite

[AussieKrissy]

So when do you think they will release the sex. I see they did a balloon reveal at the mid-evil party. maybe they can nickname the baby 333 

[TatiFish9]

13 minutes ago, formergothardite said:

Crazy as in they are neck deep in a cult that teaches insane things. Sure IBLP has put on a shiny exterior, but it still teaches the same awful stuff, just with more modern clothing and hair cuts. They are good at hiding the IBLP crazy from the show and their social media. 

Do you think any of the adult children reject the core teachings? Also, did Erin denounce IBLP or just Gothardism? Are they the same thing?

 I do see changes in some of the younger Bates that extend beyond their hair and clothing choices. I don't think their clothes are all that spectacularly different from the Duggars (except sometimes Alyssa and now Carlin). I think that has more to do with them being rich/well off/ famous than IBLP. Also, it may have to do with class, too. 

Josie has already alluded to the Bates courting model as being crazy and she was happy that Kelton waited for her despite it. I am not sure if she is a fan of her parents cultish beliefs. She most likely still has conservative values. I wouldn't expect anything else seeing as though it is all she has known at this point. I think Alyssa is the same, but more sneaky about it afterall she is her buddy mom.

Question, what would you need to see from the Bates to believe IBLP has changed? If IBLP dropped the courting model or lighened up significantly would you consider that a major change  ? 

Added: this is the Lawson thread, opps. I should talk tabout him. He dresses cool and has nice hair, but I don't see him doing anything that makes me think he rejects his family's lifestyle.

[AliceInFundyland]

@TatiFish9 Didn’t the the rest of the forum literally just have this conversation with you? I don’t think specific thread matters much.

@formergothardite Rufus Bless you sincerely for your patience and perserverance. I mean it.

[formergothardite]

30 minutes ago, TatiFish9 said:

Do you think any of the adult children reject the core teachings?

No way to tell. So far no indication they have. 

32 minutes ago, TatiFish9 said:

Also, did Erin denounce IBLP or just Gothardism?

She denounced Gothard and was very vague about the rest. While Gothard's teachings are still a part of IBLP, he most certainly is not and it is he who Erin denounced. 

33 minutes ago, TatiFish9 said:

Josie has already alluded to the Bates courting model as being crazy and she was happy that Kelton waited for her despite it.

I'm slightly disturbed that she feels like Kelton waited for her. She was a child, he was an adult and while he threw a little fit about not getting to young teen girlfriend, the Bates making Kelton wait is one of the more sane things they have done. Hell, it seems as soon as she was legal he got to start courting her and then finally got his teen bride. 

36 minutes ago, TatiFish9 said:

Question, what would you need to see from the Bates to believe IBLP has changed? If IBLP dropped the courting model or lighened up significantly would you consider that a major change  ? 

There is no redeeming IBLP. Do you truly not realize how the foundation of that cult is so fucked up there is no saving it? Honestly, what do you think IBLP is? I am beginning to think that you don't understand exactly how awful this entire thing is. 

As for Lawson, he was the one who lied on social media about his dad's involvement with IBLP and Gothard's scandal.

 

[TatiFish9]

2 minutes ago, formergothardite said:

[...]

There is no redeeming IBLP. Do you truly not realize how the foundation of that cult is so fucked up there is no saving it? Honestly, what do you think IBLP is? I am beginning to think that you don't understand exactly how awful this entire thing is. 

[...]

 

I have watched a documentary on Gothard, how he rose to power and what his motivations were for starting IBLP. I have also seen youtube clips from ex-members. Outside of that, I do not know everything about IBLP. You have spoken about it several times so I thought I could learn from your knowledge of it. I also notice you correcting my posts, careful to remind me that no matter what seems to be, these people nor their children have or most likely ever will change. That seems like an extreme view to me, but I know it is likely that some cults eventually fade out after scandaI or are absorbed by seemingly benign groups. If Gothard was the powerhead of IBLP but he was kicked out after scandal, I wondered what that meant. I think it a legitimate question. I say that because as I mentioned here before, I briefly attended a church where the founder was outsted because the national church was showing up on cult lists. New leadership wanted change after scandal. While there were still groups in the church that were operating under the old practices, chasing off people like myself - the over all leadership moved quickly to change many of the tenents and ideals. I did not know IBLP was irredeemable nor do I know the history of many of the posters here. I just take it as a message board where freedom of thought is encouraged. I understand that this board is not meant to educate anyone. I thought because you comment on some of my posts, you were engaging discussion.

I don't come here to argue so I dont always follow every topic to the end especially when frustrations show up in discussion and posters become unnecessarily rude and/or domineering.

Anyhow, from now on I will leave my comments about the Bates and IBLP to a minimum because I see both represent something deeper, more symbolic to others than they do to me. I think that is more important to respect than posting my speculations. 

[formergothardite]

10 minutes ago, TatiFish9 said:

I also notice you correcting my posts, careful to remind me that no matter what seems to be, these people nor their children have or most likely ever will change. That seems like an extreme view to me, b

Where I have I said they will never change? Saying there is no sign that they aren't still fundie now isn't saying that they will never not be fundie. The chances that all 19 kids will stay fundie are pretty rare, unless they are the Arndts.  As I have said for years, being on reality tv is probably keeping both families still fundie. Without the fame and money the Bates would be poverty stricken and there would be no fancy weddings or huge I Love You Day events. One trigger for many to start questioning is to have things go wrong as they follow the fundie life. With the Bates they are being rewarded, not a whole lot of incentive to start questioning. 

15 minutes ago, TatiFish9 said:

If Gothard was the powerhead of IBLP but he was kicked out after scandal, I wondered what that meant. I think it a legitimate question.

They kept his teachings. IBLP has enough money to make it for a long time. They adopted a more modern look, but the whole foundation of evil is still there. What did it mean that he was kicked out? It means that either the BoD found evidence that he hurt people and they hid it or they found evidence that he didn't do anything but they are greedy, or they found evidence, hid it and are greedy for money. There is no way for Gil and Kelly to come out of this as being good people. 

18 minutes ago, TatiFish9 said:

I did not know IBLP was irredeemable

It is. The only way the Gil and Kelly could start redeeming themselves is to admit they were wrong, admit they participated and made money off an organization that hurt countless people and then help liquidate all the IBLP assets and donate the money to some organization that will help people recovering from cults like IBLP.