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Josh, Anna, and M'kids part 18: The Prodigal Son Returneth


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12 hours ago, Kaylo said:

I use bitch for women and dick for men. They mean the same thing for me.

By your own description that means these two words are inherently gendered for you - if you use one word for one gender and one for the other they're by definition not "the same thing." This is why words/insults/slurs that come from sexist terms, even if they might not ALWAYS be used in a sexist way, are still inherently sexist until their meaning is completely changed.

Anyone who uses "bitch" primarily for insulting women (rather than men) is participating in misogynist discourse. The level of it varies, of course, but I think it's a bit silly to argue that using it towards women in general is not at all misogynist. It seems like we're at a transitional moment for that particular word, moving from it being used almost exclusively as a sexist insult to using it as a positive or group-identity kind of thing. It's the same process of language that has been happening for the n word and a few other terms.

But since it is in the process of transitioning now I do think it's important to be sensitive to context and who we're using it with - for example, if I call Lori a bitch out in internet space it's entirely different than if I call my best friend a bitch while we're hanging out.

12 hours ago, Jinder Roles said:

I guess bitch seems less serious to me because I don’t think it has ever carried the same oppressive weight as other  slurs (i.e: the n word or f word). No doubt it’s been used misogynistically, but idk, it’s just not as severe. But I could just be ignorant of that information. 

[snip]

I think bitch is on the same level as hoe for me. 

Misogynist insults have been used just as oppressively as those other terms. Most of those aren't in use anymore, but the very wide and colorful range of insulting women for being women has oppressed us in the same way. It's easier to see this if you think about the way they're used towards men - calling a man a bitch or a pussy, etc - associating them with perceived female characteristics - has always been a way of smacking them down as hard as possible. All these terms have historically been ways of dismissing women's thoughts, opinions, bodies, aspirations, etc, as not worthy. Don't discount how badly all these slurs have hurt women throughout the years. As for hoe - that one is almost worse to me because it explicitly illustrates the difference between how we look at women's vs men's sexuality and degrades women's in a particularly scornful way.

12 hours ago, SilverBeach said:

I guess bastard is out too, since it specifically insults men.

It doesn't at all specifically insult men - it's an insult for someone born out of wedlock regardless of gender. That's actually an example of a word that's almost entirely lost its original meaning, as it seems bitch is doing now. Personally I don't see bastard as gendered at all, I think I'd be pretty likely to use it equally for men and women (although it's not really in my cursing vocab, I just never think about it!).

As for the question about a replacement...I tend to use asshole/asshat/fuckface for everyone equally and I think it does the job! :)

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1 hour ago, SapphireSlytherin said:

Whooooo-boy. You'd better not get in my car with me when I'm driving then... 

I ask my husband every day if we're being  punked. Every.Damn.Day.

 

Isn't it too bad that we (general we, including the media and other world leaders) can't just ignore him? Too bad it can't be done. Without all the attention, he'd quit in an instant

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My favourites to level at people that I don't know and who are generally pissing me off. "Idiotic piece of shit" "Ignorant asshole" "Stupid fucker" and "Dumbass"

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45 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

Isn't it too bad that we (general we, including the media and other world leaders) can't just ignore him? Too bad it can't be done. Without all the attention, he'd quit in an instant

I know, I hear people say we should ignore him, the same way they say we should just ignore the Kardashians, but the problem is that he is the President of the US! It would be irresponsible to ignore him.

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3 hours ago, Playagirl said:

I eat way less than I used to but can't shed the weight. Now I get comments like, 'well, you finally know how the rest of us feel.  Ha, ha, it's about time. Better watch your weight. What happened to you? There are ab exercises online you can do.' Alot of it is said in a joking manner but it still hurts.

I've definitely seen that kind of thing, but I don't often hear people talk about.

When I was anorexic but right on the border between underweight and a healthy weight I had people gleefully point out all the areas I wasn't skinny, like my hips, and tell me things like, "yeah, you're skinny, but if you were a model they would think you're fat." I've also gotten lots of "well, you're thin, but you're not that thin" comments. Those were all completely unsolicited and I hadn't mentioned my body at all! Some of those were even from nurses who knew I had an ED. It seemed to bring up a lot of their own insecurities and I'd have nurses compare their bodies to mine, both favorably and unfavorably. The same nurse who told me I'd be a fat model also told me I looked skeletal and "disgusting."  

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As a Canadian I never paid too much attention to American politics. Until 2016, when Trump became leader of the Republicans (or however you word it down there, I'm not well-versed in your political vernacular). I was absolutely, 100% convinced that he was a Democratic plant, that he worked, and was helped by a conspiracy of Democrats, to get to that position to ensure that no Republicans would dare to vote Republican, and that any apathetic non-voters would be sure to get out and vote Democrat to keep him out of office. I guess I just couldn't fathom a world where people would actually vote for him. Never.been.so.wrong.before.in.my.life. It's kind of embarrassing to admit to how bloody naive I was. 

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9 minutes ago, Playagirl said:

As a Canadian I never paid too much attention to American politics. Until 2016, when Trump became leader of the Republicans (or however you word it down there, I'm not well-versed in your political vernacular). I was absolutely, 100% convinced that he was a Democratic plant, that he worked, and was helped by a conspiracy of Democrats, to get to that position to ensure that no Republicans would dare to vote Republican, and that any apathetic non-voters would be sure to get out and vote Democrat to keep him out of office. I guess I just couldn't fathom a world where people would actually vote for him. Never.been.so.wrong.before.in.my.life. It's kind of embarrassing to admit to how bloody naive I was. 

In California we have open primaries (don't have to vote for the party you are registered for) and I thought about voting for Trump just to mess with the Republicans.  That was early on, and CA had a really late primary in 2016 and Trump already had clinched the nomination by that point so thank goodness I didn't go there or I would still be hating myself for contributing to his win.  

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1 hour ago, Cheetah said:

In California we have open primaries (don't have to vote for the party you are registered for) and I thought about voting for Trump just to mess with the Republicans.  That was early on, and CA had a really late primary in 2016 and Trump already had clinched the nomination by that point so thank goodness I didn't go there or I would still be hating myself for contributing to his win.  

So you guys have to register for a party? I thought voting was supposed to be confidential? How is it confidential if you need to register with a particular party in advance?  Or in general do you just need to pick any party in order to be allowed to register, but then you can actually vote in all elections any way you please? In Canada we need to be on the voter registration list if we want to vote, but we're never asked which party we support. I think I've probably voted for all of our parties at some time or other over the past 35 years. I don't think I'll ever understand voting rules and how they differ, even amongst democratic countries.

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13 minutes ago, Playagirl said:

 In Canada we need to be on the voter registration list if we want to vote, but we're never asked which party we support. I think I've probably voted for all of our parties at some time or other over the past 35 years. I don't think I'll ever understand voting rules and how they differ, even amongst democratic countries.

The registering for who you will vote for would stress me out. It's so against the way that we are taught in Canada, we are told that we don't owe anyone to tell them how we voted. Voting is private and it's not something you ask someone. People are always changing parties because they're never the same. Once a new leader comes in with new ideas, you might not like them. So you move on, find someone who represents you better. And you don't talk about it.

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9 minutes ago, Playagirl said:

So you guys have to register for a party? I thought voting was supposed to be confidential? How is it confidential if you need to register with a particular party in advance?  Or in general do you just need to pick any party in order to be allowed to register, but then you can actually vote in all elections any way you please? In Canada we need to be on the voter registration list if we want to vote, but we're never asked which party we support. I think I've probably voted for all of our parties at some time or other over the past 35 years. I don't think I'll ever understand voting rules and how they differ, even amongst democratic countries.

It depends on your location and upon the round of voting.  Usually, party-based vote restriction is limited to primaries ("closed primaries") and the logic there is that ONLY party members should be voting for which candidate their PARTY should support.  That makes sense, because you don't want voters from another party voting in a weak candidate for the opposition to guarantee their victory in the election.  You want the BEST candidates from ALL parties, and the best way to do that may be to allow only party members themselves to weigh in on the candidate of the party.  

Here's a rundown of the various primary formats in the US: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primary_elections_in_the_United_States 

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11 minutes ago, Playagirl said:

So you guys have to register for a party? I thought voting was supposed to be confidential? How is it confidential if you need to register with a particular party in advance?  Or in general do you just need to pick any party in order to be allowed to register, but then you can actually vote in all elections any way you please? In Canada we need to be on the voter registration list if we want to vote, but we're never asked which party we support. I think I've probably voted for all of our parties at some time or other over the past 35 years. I don't think I'll ever understand voting rules and how they differ, even amongst democratic countries.

Registering for a party is not required in all states. In the US, it only matters for primary elections. In states such as WI where there are open primaries you show up, they give you a ballot, and you either vote the Republican side or the Democratic side. You're voting for who will represent that party in the general election. You can't pick a Democrat for senator and a Republican for governor in the primaries. In a state with open primaries, depending on the candidates, sometimes someone who plans to vote primarily for Republicans will choose to vote for the people they think will be easier to defeat in the general election from the democrats candidates. 

In short, you still can vote a split ticket in the general election, you're just registering to vote for a certain party's candidates in the primaries.

*I used Democrat and Republican a bit at random because it was less wordy and easier to understand than saying one party/the other party

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It's also possible to register as an Independent. In the primary elections (held on the day each state has chosen)  when each party selects it's candidates for the general election (held on the same day in November), those registered as Independent typically only get to vote for local issues, unless more than one Independent candidate is running for an office or the state has open primaries, as discussed above. In the general election, you may vote for whichever candidate you wish.

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In my state, I'm simply registered to vote. There is no party affiliation tied to my voter registration. During primary elections, I'm asked which party's ballot I want:  Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Constitution, Green, etc.

 

I can choose any of them, and just because I choose Libertarian this year doesn't mean I have to choose Libertarian at the next primary (for example).

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Thanks to everyone who responded to my question. I understand a lot better how your elections work now. Still don't understand how Trump ever got to be president, but not in a procedural way, more of in a WTF way...

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1 minute ago, Playagirl said:

Thanks to everyone who responded to my question. I understand a lot better how your elections work now. Still don't understand how Trump ever got to be president, but not in a procedural way, more of in a WTF way...

I was in shock for a good 2 days after he was elected. Even now I’m still in shock sometimes. 

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41 minutes ago, Carm_88 said:

The registering for who you will vote for would stress me out. It's so against the way that we are taught in Canada, we are told that we don't owe anyone to tell them how we voted. Voting is private and it's not something you ask someone. People are always changing parties because they're never the same. Once a new leader comes in with new ideas, you might not like them. So you move on, find someone who represents you better. And you don't talk about it.

Hah!! I remember being a kid and listening to my parents arguing about who they were going to vote for. Dad would want to know who mom was voting for and mom would say it was none of his damn business, then dad would get mad that their votes might cancel each other out if they didn't vote the same way. Didn't make a difference to my mom, there was no way she was going to tell anyone which way she was voting. Yep, we definitely take our privacy seriously up here.

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Voting is ABSOLUTELY PRIVATE. You're not obligated to tell anyone (including your spouse!!! lol) how you marked your ballot. My mother was a champion at keeping her ballot secret. Except for the year she voted for Jimmy Carter. lol

 

I don't tell ANYONE how I voted. Not even my husband - but we do discuss the candidates and issues/initiatives/amendments/propositions at length before I do go vote.

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There were what 12-13 other candidates who were all devout conservative Christians? No way in hell did I think a twice divorced casino owner who botches 2nd Corinthians and says 'grab em by the p.... and drops the f-word on camera would ever be the "family values" candidate. In a terrible way, I "get" why fundies choose Trump over Hillary. Why they choose him over Carson, Cruz, Rubio, Rand Paul, etc, I have no clue. It's way beyond mind boggling. 

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1 minute ago, Pecansforeveryone said:

In a terrible way, I "get" why fundies choose Trump over Hillary. Why they choose him over Carson, Cruz, Rubio, Rand Paul, etc, I have no clue. It's way beyond mind boggling. 

Thank you.  This is something that's been bothering me since it happened but couldn't put it into words.

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1 minute ago, Pecansforeveryone said:

There were what 12-13 other candidates who were all devout conservative Christians? No way in hell did I think a twice divorced casino owner who botches 2nd Corinthians and says 'grab em by the p.... and drops the f-word on camera would ever be the "family values" candidate. In a terrible way, I "get" why fundies choose Trump over Hillary. Why they choose him over Carson, Cruz, Rubio, Rand Paul, etc, I have no clue. It's way beyond mind boggling. 

It was shocking to me as well. I knew their was no way consertives Christians would have voted for Hillary. But the fact that they voted for Trump truly surprised me. Not only has he been divorced twice his older 3 kids married Jewish people & his daughter converted to Judaism. 

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I'm going to try to use the level of openness and honesty we support on Free jinger. Please note, I'm talking about choosing Trump as the primary candidate, not the general election candidate. In the General election, I feel like some voted for Trump, and some voted against Hillary.

Some voted for Trump because he was a businessman. They felt that the "career politicians" had screwed up the country, and maybe the economy would grow more if a businessman was in charge.

Some felt that the US was losing it's place in the world and wanted what they viewed as a strong leader, who would make America First and not compromise.

Some chose Trump because they felt, as a businessman, he could bring back their mining and manufacturing jobs, allowing them to stay in the area where there family has lived for generations.

Some chose Trump because they felt he was different. With so many other candidates in the Republican primary, the other candidates voices sounded very similar. Trump was saying things and doing things that appealed to several, especially white men working blue collar jobs.

Some liked Trump's brash attitude, and the way he "called it as he saw it".

Truthfully, I think some voted for Trump in the primary because they thought Hillary was going to win the Democrat nomination and they thought he was the best to beat Hillary.

I hope these ideas help.

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@Audrey2, thank you for a thoughtful response. I agree with your summary, actually. It's just the raging hypocrisy and justification of fundies that gets me. They never owned they had "practical, worldly" reasons for voting for Trump. They swore up and down that he was "born-again" and "annointed of God." If you believe that a great and mighty God can use "A sinful, worldly" man like Trump to do great and mighty things so God, not Trump gets the glory then just friggin say that. All of this Trump is so godly and a righteous leader is pure bullshit to this godless heathen, at least. It's a terrible testimony from people who are consumed with having godly testimonies. 

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1 hour ago, Playagirl said:

So you guys have to register for a party? I thought voting was supposed to be confidential? How is it confidential if you need to register with a particular party in advance?  Or in general do you just need to pick any party in order to be allowed to register, but then you can actually vote in all elections any way you please? In Canada we need to be on the voter registration list if we want to vote, but we're never asked which party we support. I think I've probably voted for all of our parties at some time or other over the past 35 years. I don't think I'll ever understand voting rules and how they differ, even amongst democratic countries.

Every state in the US differs on registration rules. Including how long before the election you must register. Additionally , each party, in the same state, can have different registration rules for the primary election. 

In the general election you can vote for anyone of any party. But when you register ( in most states - I think Vermont and one or two others don’t have any party affiliation registration ?) you register either as Democrat, Republican, Green, Libertarian, some other third party - or Independent. To make it even MORE confusing - not all parties are eligible in all states. And states use different words for “Independent” . 

For the primary election - sort of the semi-finals - you pick who you like from either a general field or from party candidates. Who you can or can’t vote for varies greatly. For example - in California for the Presidential Primary, to vote for a Democrat, you need to be registered Democrat OR No-party Preference ( California’s term for Independent. But if you want to vote in the Republican Primary, you can be any registration ( IIRC) . You can only pick one primary Presidential candidate though. - BUT- for all the other races in California - Governor, Senate, Congress etc.... the primary is open, so the top two vote  getters of any party ( or none) move on to the general election. So this year, for example we had a Republican and Democrat running against each other for Governor. But two Democrats for Senator. And a Dem and an Independent for Insurance Commissioner. 

That’s just one state. 

All the others are different. It’s a stupid clusterfuck 

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@Audrey2 thank you for this explanation. I think the reasons you iterated are exactly why a lot of people voted for him. And I agree that these reasons are very valid and some of them I've thought myself in regards to Canada's state of affairs.  I guess what I have trouble with is the man himself, not the reasons behind his election. Wasn't there anybody else who could fit the bill but wasn't so damn nasty? And sort of off topic, but why does America have to see itself as number 1? No offense intended to any Americans, I'm legitimately curious as I've come across this mindset so very often when travelling through the States. Isn't a healthier attitude one where all countries work together to ensure equal success for all? Or is that just too optimistic and naive of me.

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I also think out current media played a part, both in making Trump the Republican nominee and in making Trump president.

When I was growing up, in the 70's and 80's, the national news was something you watched for 30 minutes after the state and local news was over. There were three national stations- NBC, which seemed the most middle of the road, ABC, which was slightly more liberal, and CBS, which was slightly more conservative. Fast forward to the 90's and today, when cable news is much more prevalent. The three main cable news networks (FOX- Conservative), CNN, and MSNBC all of a sudden had 24 hours of news programming to fill, instead of 30 minutes, plus a little for the morning magazine shows and blurbs for the local stations. They now not only included news, repeating the same story over and over and over, but opinion, creating their own station's spin on the day's events.

Obama revolutionized being a political candidate, when he took his message directly to the people over social media.

Trump was the principal person in The Apprentice, which brought him into people's living rooms every week for a reality show. Many saw him fire person after person, trying to get the business results he wanted. As a candidate, he expanded on this by embracing social media, especially Twitter. Both of these made him a well known candidate for the general population, requiring a lower level of political engagement than researching to see how he felt on issues. Because he wasn't a career politician too, he could control the words he used to speak about certain issues, instead of leaving a trail to see how he voted or how he spoke in office about some of these issues.

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