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Josh, Anna, and M'kids part 18: The Prodigal Son Returneth


Buzzard

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I love name themes, and I hope all the Duggars chose one/stick to one. And M is not such a bad letter theme, there is a gazillion names that begin with M, it's not like they are restricted to choose from 2 names - Matthew, Maverick, Miles, Max, Maddox, Malachi, Messiah, Manuel, Martin, Major, Marshall, Malcolm, Moses, Marvin, Maurice, Memphis, Marcel, Mitchell, Morgan, Madden, Magnus, Melvin, Marlon, Merrick, Miller, Marley for boys

and Mia, Mila, Maya, Madelyn, Melanie, Maria/Mary/Molly/Miriam, Margaret, Melody, Morgan, Megan, Makayla, Marley, Michelle, McKenna, Melissa, Maisie/Maci, Miranda, Millie, Miracle, Magnolia, McKinley, Mabel, Mira, Malaysia, Myra, Matilda, Mallory, Milani, Melina, Monica, Maren, May, Mara, Monroe, Mina, Malaya, Marina, Meadow, Martha, Mercy, Mavis, Maxine, Miley, Marjorie, Magdalene, Marlowe, for girls. (Madison excluded for obvious reasons)

They will be fine. I doubt they regret it. 

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Marlow can also be used for boys, I know a guy with that name. 

Mabel is my absolute favorite girl name and I will never be able to use it because my husband hates it.  Sigh. 

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Bodyshaming is I think the toughest thing to combat in society especially for women. It's ingrained in us from a young age that we have to be thin. If you're not thin with a perfectly flat stomach, you're fat. And fat is the absolutely worst thing that you can be. When my parents bought me my prom dress, I never felt so judged in my life (and I lived with my mother), as when I told my aunt that it was a size 12 and she said "Sacred heart of jesus, go run." I was 5'4 and 125 pounds, I just had hips and boobs, I had a bit of a stomach, but I wasn't fat. I cried for weeks, I couldn't believe how fat I was. It still stings. My brother was in the middle of a chubby phase at the time, no one dared say anything about him, but my perfectly healthy weight was up for interpretation

You know the other time my weight was up for interpretation? Christmas 2010, my mother told my family prior to them seeing me that I had gotten awfully fat, but to not mention it to me. Yeah, I had gained close on 40 pounds, I had been hit by a car in September and for about 8 weeks, I was hobbling. My right knee had been battered by the accident and in June of 2011, I was still wearing a knee brace. So walking was hard and yes, I ate for comfort. It's hard to hear that all someone is saying is that you're fat. Not that they are grateful you're still alive, but pardon her she's fat.

Anna may or may not see it, but I think we have to stop this cycle of being judgy and hating ourselves because someone else is judgy. It has to stop being acceptable.

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4 hours ago, LilMissMetaphor said:

Good thing we all have the prescience/wisdom to know what people worry about based on a few hours of footage of their lives here and there!  :562479351e8d1_wtf(2):

I mean that other women around her have shown insecurities about her body publicly and it has not been the case of Anna, obviously I have no way of knowing what she is worried about, what are her fears and insecurities, it was a simple opinion.

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21 hours ago, Rachel333 said:

I don't think they deserve to have misogynist insults used against them either, and that seems to be another area where I disagree with many FJ posters, considering the amount of times I've seen posters call a fundie women a "bitch" or worse.

What's a good substitute for bitch? Asshole? I use bitch, sometimes it seems appropriate, but asshole is all encompassing. I'm a woman, and bitch as an insult doesn't bother me, even though I think female canines should perhaps not be vilified like this.

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8 minutes ago, SilverBeach said:

What's a good substitute for bitch? Asshole? I use bitch, sometimes it seems appropriate, but asshole is all encompassing. I'm a woman, and bitch as an insult doesn't bother me, even though I think female canines should perhaps not be vilified like this.

I feel the same, only bothers me when leveled at dogs.  

I usually think of asshole as something said to men, idk why.  Fucker is completely gender neutral for me so that's handy when i can't see who is driving the car that pissed me off.

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53 minutes ago, SilverBeach said:

What's a good substitute for bitch? Asshole? I use bitch, sometimes it seems appropriate, but asshole is all encompassing. I'm a woman, and bitch as an insult doesn't bother me, even though I think female canines should perhaps not be vilified like this.

I don't know, I guess since I don't use it I've never needed a substitute.

I just really hate misogynist language and I think women can decide for themselves if they personally are okay with it but I think it's very offensive to use it towards other women who may not be okay being called sexist insults. I don't think we get to reclaim words for other people.

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10 hours ago, lumpentheologie said:

But saying that he's not objectively physically attractive because he doesn't meet those standards accepts and reinforces the idea that thin is (and should be) attractive and anything other than thin isn't.  

For the record, that isn't what I said or meant. I mentioned both attractiveness and weight as separate things that Trump has criticized women for, and I didn't even say that he isn't objectively attractive, I said that he does not meet the same attractiveness standards he uses for others. I was actually pretty careful about that because I knew people were likely to misinterpret it.

Again, I disagree with people whose standards on "body shaming" go so far that they don't even think it's okay to point out that the man is not only cruel to women who aren't perfectly thin, he's incredibly hypocritical because he does it while being very overweight himself.

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God the body shaming, body hatred,  and how we fall into is such a deep seated, pervasive societal nightmare. I know I’ve certainly fallen for it at different points in my life. Not the judging other women ( or men) I don’t get that....but about myself. I gain my weight in my belly. All the women in my family do. I also had a fair amount of births, several by c-section. I can’t even count the number of times I’ve been asked if I was pregnant when I wasn’t. Or how when I’ve been extra heavy- how I’ve avoided photos. Such a bad example for my daughters! And the standards! Lord so incredibly geared towards what standard upper class  white women idealize! Do we even look at that at all? Tall, thin, flat stomach - who says that’s “better” - it’s certainly not the way most bodies set around the world. And that standard has become even more pervasive with social media. 

I feel so sorry for the women here who’ve been body shamed by their families - and for what ? As a mother, I can’t imagine treating my daughter that way - but I know the “no, don’t take my picture! “ has a huge negative impact as well. And this does mostly seem to come from other women. I’ve never met a man who cared with that intensity about a woman gaining weight. 

Anna may LIKE the way she looks, she may want to GAIN weight, but can’t say it in our society. Her husband, douchery aside, may PREFER some curves. She looks, to me like she has a perfectly average size body.

And on the flip side - one of my girls is just naturally tiny. It works HER nerves when people are either “eat, eat, eat! You must be starving yourself!” or - “omg, I hate that you’re so skinnny, I’m so jealous.” 

Just let people be. 

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1 minute ago, Rachel333 said:

For the record, that isn't what I said or meant. I mentioned both attractiveness and weight as separate things that Trump has criticized women for, and I didn't even say that he isn't objectively attractive, I said that he does not meet the same attractiveness standards he uses for others. I was actually pretty careful about that because I knew people were likely to misinterpret it.

Again, I disagree with people whose standards on "body shaming" go so far that they don't even think it's okay to point out that the man is not only cruel to women who aren't perfectly thin, he's incredibly hypocritical because he does it while being very overweight himself.

Sorry, I was addressing people who body shame Trump in general, not you specifically.  That seems not to have been clear. 

I think we mostly agree really, because I also think pointing out hypocrisy doesn't amount to body shaming (although I admit I don't like the term 'overweight' since it implies that the person in question should weigh less).  Maybe that's why you put "body shaming" in scare quotes in your posts? 

But there are people who seem to think actually body shaming Trump is totally fine, and I just wanted to argue against that. 

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1 minute ago, lumpentheologie said:

Sorry, I was addressing people who body shame Trump in general, not you specifically.  That seems not to have been clear. 

I think we mostly agree really, because I also think pointing out hypocrisy doesn't amount to body shaming (although I admit I don't like the term 'overweight' since it implies that the person in question should weigh less).  Maybe that's why you put "body shaming" in scare quotes in your posts? 

But there are people who seem to think actually body shaming Trump is totally fine, and I just wanted to argue against that. 

"Overweight" is a medical term and the most objective one I could use here since we do actually know that's how he's medically classified. It's fine to object to medical terms and I know plenty of people do, but that's why I used that term. And yes, I don't really think the criticism of Trump amounts to body shaming but it's a term that has been used. I frequently use quotation marks in that manner, and the use of quotation marks in itself isn't "scare quotes," which is a subjective, often antagonistic, term.

I get that people are going to have different opinions about which language to use (clearly, as I think it's offensive to use sexist language, and many here disagree!) but I'm not going to keep picking apart words and punctuation to this level of detail.

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@Rachel333 I see what you’re saying but I think it depends on the context. If a man is calling women bitches every 10 seconds while using and doing other misogynistic things, that’s a valid critique . But it’s also used in so many other contexts(and so creatively). Women use it as a form of empowerment, in drag and LGBT communities, it’s a part of the vernacular, it’s used as a compliment, and yes sometimes an insult. He’ll, I call myself bitch sometimes in my head. 

I find it’s use similar to how the f word has been reclaimed by some members of the LGBTQ community, and the n word is used by some members of the black community. Though obviously, bitch is obviously a less sensitive version of that. 

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29 minutes ago, Jinder Roles said:

@Rachel333 I see what you’re saying but I think it depends on the context. If a man is calling women bitches every 10 seconds while using and doing other misogynistic things, that’s a valid critique . But it’s also used in so many other contexts(and so creatively). Women use it as a form of empowerment, in drag and LGBT communities, it’s a part of the vernacular, it’s used as a compliment, and yes sometimes an insult. He’ll, I call myself bitch sometimes in my head. 

I find it’s use similar to how the f word has been reclaimed by some members of the LGBTQ community, and the n word is used by some members of the black community. Though obviously, bitch is obviously a less sensitive version of that. 

Like I said, it's fine if women want to reclaim it and use it for themselves. I just firmly believe you can't make that decision for other women, and I don't think it's okay to use it for women just because you (general you) are a woman yourself. I believe that principle applies to other slurs as well.

I also find it very sad and frustrating that people take misogynist language so much less seriously than other slurs..

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4 hours ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

I feel the same, only bothers me when leveled at dogs.  

I usually think of asshole as something said to men, idk why.  Fucker is completely gender neutral for me so that's handy when i can't see who is driving the car that pissed me off.

"Ass munch" is my go to word when someone pisses me off while driving lol

3 hours ago, Rachel333 said:

For the record, that isn't what I said or meant. I mentioned both attractiveness and weight as separate things that Trump has criticized women for, and IAgain, I disagree with people whose standards on "body shaming" go so far that they don't even think it's okay to point out that the man is not only cruel to women who aren't perfectly thin, he's incredibly hypocritical because he does it while being very overweight himself.

The guy that I've been dating on and off is quite overweight. It honestly doesn't bother me, I'm very attracted to him but he made a comment just a few days ago that really raised red flags for me. He was talking about a lady he went on a date with & said that she is a "big girl". He said that he was not at all attracted to her because he wants his woman to be skinny. WTF?! So, it's ok for him to be quite overweight but not "his girl"? That really pissed me off. 

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8 hours ago, Rachel333 said:

I just really hate misogynist language and I think women can decide for themselves if they personally are okay with it but I think it's very offensive to use it towards other women who may not be okay being called sexist insults.

I don't know if everyone views bitch as a sexist insult nowadays. I don't. I use it for men and women, jokingly and seriously, as an empowerment thing and as an insult, and I've heard a lot of my peers use it the same way. It just doesn't seem to have the sting that it once did, imo (and I get that opinions will vary). So personally I just don't really see it as derogatory to women, like C U Next Tuesday (which I will whip out very rarely when the occasion calls for it, but hate to hear men use). But then, I'm just some one who really, really likes cursing. 

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Just now, BernRul said:

I don't know if everyone views bitch as a sexist insult nowadays. I don't. I use it for men and women, jokingly and seriously, as an empowerment thing and as an insult, and I've heard a lot of my peers use it the same way. It just doesn't seem to have the sting that it once did, imo (and I get that opinions will vary). So personally I just don't really see it as derogatory to women, like C U Next Tuesday (which I will whip out very rarely when the occasion calls for it, but hate to hear men use). But then, I'm just some one who really, really likes cursing. 

But just because you don't see it that way doesn't mean you should use it for others who do see it as a sexist insult. I hate it so much that people think they can use it towards other women who might not be okay with it as "an empowerment thing," and I'm particularly unimpressed by women who do that while calling themselves feminists. I'm not bothered by playful/joking use if both parties are okay with it and in that case I think it's more likely to be used for men too, but when someone uses it in a mean way (like most of the times I see it used on FJ towards a woman the poster dislikes) it's pretty much only directed at women and it's clear that the woman is being called that because she's a woman. Keep in mind too when you say it that there are a lot of women who have been called that word often by their abuser and it can be particularly triggering for them.

I also actually wasn't just talking about the word "bitch," I was thinking of "cunt" too, which has all the same issues. I just gave "bitch" as the most common example of sexist language.

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1 minute ago, Rachel333 said:

But just because you don't see it that way doesn't mean you should use it for others who do see it as a sexist insult. I hate it so much that people think they can use it towards other women who might not be okay with it as "an empowerment thing," and I'm particularly unimpressed by women who do that while calling themselves feminists. I'm not bothered by playful/joking use if both parties are okay with it and in that case I think it's more likely to be used for men too, but when someone uses it in a mean way (like most of the times I see it used on FJ towards a woman the poster dislikes) it's pretty much only directed at women and it's clear that the woman is being called that because she's a woman. Keep in mind too when you say it that there are a lot of women who have been called that word often by their abuser and it can be particularly triggering for them.

I also actually wasn't just talking about the word "bitch," I was thinking of "cunt" too, which has all the same issues. I just gave "bitch" as the most common example of sexist language.

We can agree to disagree. You see it as a sexist insult, and I respect that. But I don't, and the people that I use it around (my friends mostly--I don't curse at people I don't know) don't. So I'm going to keep using it. I don't think it makes me any less feminist or hypocritical, because like I said, for some people "bitch" no longer comes across as sexist as it may have in the past. I simply do not see it that way at all. If I knew you in real life, I wouldn't use the word in your presence out of respect for your views, but you not liking it isn't going to stop me from using it in my personal life. Again, agree to disagree. 

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Just now, BernRul said:

We can agree to disagree. You see it as a sexist insult, and I respect that. But I don't, and the people that I use it around (my friends mostly--I don't curse at people I don't know) don't. So I'm going to keep using it. I don't think it makes me any less feminist or hypocritical, because like I said, for some people "bitch" no longer comes across as sexist as it may have in the past. I simply do not see it that way at all. If I knew you in real life, I wouldn't use the word in your presence out of respect for your views, but you not liking it isn't going to stop me from using it in my personal life. Again, agree to disagree. 

I didn't say you have to stop using it (I am under no illusions that anyone will stop using any sexist language), and I have repeatedly said I don't have a problem with people using it if they're certain both parties are okay with it (once again, I'm really not talking about playful use, just meant as an insult), but I also will continue to think poorly of anyone who uses the word as an insult towards women they aren't sure are okay with it.

I find it pretty incredible, honestly, that "you shouldn't insult women by calling them a bitch" is such an unpopular opinion, and the fact that people think their right to swear matters more than the people who would be hurt by that language says a lot to me.

I see the same issue with a lot of slurs, and I'm disappointed by the people who use them regardless of how those slurs hurt people just because they personally aren't offended by those words.

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11 minutes ago, Rachel333 said:

I find it pretty incredible, honestly, that "you shouldn't insult women by calling them a bitch" is such an unpopular opinion, and the fact that people think their right to swear matters more than the people who would be hurt by that language says a lot to me.

As I've said in my other posts, I don't view the word "bitch" as strongly as you do, and I believe that to be the case for a lot of people. It no longer seems like an insult specifically meant to demean a woman in all contexts. You disagree which if fine. But just because you think that way doesn't mean that everyone else will in this context. That may be why it's an unpopular opinion--because not everyone views that word as strongly as you do. 

As to my "right to swear" I don't go around cursing at people to their faces. And if anyone was ever offended by my language, and told me that they don't like hearing it, I would refrain from using it in their presence out of politeness. But to imply that some how makes me a person that  doesn't care about others being hurt is a little much (and a little insulting) just because I disagree with you that the word should be inherently taboo. 

 

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Bitch is no big deal around here. I use it more playfully and if someone calls me that I tend to say thank you. But Hubby was raised by a racist and he uses derogatory terms as they were meant in the past. It's gotten better from when we met 11 years ago but only because I punch him in the arm every time a slur escaped his mouth. He can call me a bitch all he wants. Cunt is one that will have him sleeping on the couch. Robin Williams did a great piece on the difference between the words once. Think it was on Inside the Actor's Studio.

Fucker, fucking moron and jackass are my insults when driving. 

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1 minute ago, Shadoewolf said:

Bitch is no big deal around here. I use it more playfully and if someone calls me that I tend to say thank you

That's what it's like where I live. Bitch is seen as more of a joke than something that would actually offend somebody in my circles. "Bitch ass" is something I hear way more often than "bitch" on its own. Bitch ass is the most ridiculous use of language that I'm always going to laugh when I hear it. 

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Just now, Rachel333 said:

But the way it's used as an insult is still pretty much only for women, or less severely for men who are perceived as feminine, and the fact is that no matter how you see it, women are still hurt by it

Not the way I hear it used. That's what I've been saying this whole time. You percieve it that way, not everyone does. That's whay I said agree to disagree, because clearly no one's mind is being changed so there's no point repeating ourselves. I've said all I'm going to say on this topic. Cheers. 

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