Josh, Anna, and M'kids part 18: The Prodigal Son Returneth

[lumpentheologie]

4 hours ago, bananabread said:

Like this is a snark and gossip site. I'm here to snark and gossip. I'm not sure what you're here for if it's not that. If you don't want to be involved in a certain conversation, by all means don't involve yourself. 

I came here to discuss the dangers of fundamentalism and stayed for the glorious thread drift. 

To me, at least, snark/gossip seems pretty incidental to the purpose of FJ and sometimes actually at odds with its mission. 

[Palimpsest]

4 hours ago, lumpentheologie said:

I came here to discuss the dangers of fundamentalism and stayed for the glorious thread drift. 

To me, at least, snark/gossip seems pretty incidental to the purpose of FJ and sometimes actually at odds with its mission. 

Thank you.  Although I think humor is quite a good way to combat the evils of fundamentalism - and for me is also frequently a coping mechanism.  

But snark ≠ gossip.  And snark ≠ body shaming and endless pregnancy speculation. 

Body shaming and endless pregnancy speculation based on weight = crass.   At least in my opinion.

[RidiculousFundies]

Bit late to this, but even though they put their lives on display, it's kind of tedious to speculate about one of them being pregnant. She has 5 kids and a pigman for a husband- she is probably stressed and I'm guessing it's not super easy to lose weight after 5 in a short span. I've only had 2 but they were c-sections and I'm skinny but I have a stomach roll when I sit. It wouldnt be fun to be asked ooo are you pregnant again, because I worked hard to lose 28kg to be where I am now. 

Poor Anna, let's give her a break, she has to live with poopface, she has enough to deal with. Their shitty beliefs and shenanigans give us enough snark material 

[lumpentheologie]

1 hour ago, Palimpsest said:

Thank you.  Although I think humor is quite a good way to combat the evils of fundamentalism - and for me is also frequently a coping mechanism.  

But snark ≠ gossip.  And snark ≠ body shaming and endless pregnancy speculation. 

Body shaming and endless pregnancy speculation based on weight = crass.   At least in my opinion.

Yes, I totally agree!  Just to be clear, I didn't mean to imply there's no place for humor or that it can't be useful. 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

On 10/17/2018 at 11:25 PM, LacyMay said:

I seem to recall people getting called out for diagnosing in past but I'm not in this thread as much so I might have just missed it here. 

Children.  People get called out  warned for diagnosing children which is explicitly against the rules.  

Just wanted to clear that up.

[Rachel333]

I disagree that it doesn't matter who the target of "body shaming" is, and I really don't think it helps anyone to literally bring up Hitler in these conversations.

It's just that this is an argument I've seen about Trump, that "body shaming" him is wrong, and I do understand where some of those people are coming from, but I simply disagree. I don't think it's wrong to point out that someone who has very publicly bullied women for their appearance and weight is himself very overweight (and almost certainly lying about just how much) and does not meet the attractiveness standards he demands in others. That's not to say I think you can just mock the appearance of anyone you dislike (I don't like it when I see people mocking Sarah Huckabee Sanders's appearance) but I think it does matter who these people are.

(Also, there's a difference in calling out hypocrisy and in saying something like that all fat people are gross.)

For the record, I don't think the fundies we talk about deserve to be body shamed. I don't think they deserve to have misogynist insults used against them either, and that seems to be another area where I disagree with many FJ posters, considering the amount of times I've seen posters call a fundie women a "bitch" or worse.

[SassyPants]

I wanted to add that if we are addressing body shaming, we should also refrain from talking about Josh or Dereck's physical sizes too. This goes beyond the size and shape of someone's midsection or uterus.

[BernRul]

On 11/9/2018 at 12:42 PM, RosyDaisy said:

I have no sympathy for these evil, hateful people. They actively work to strip others of their rights. A little pregnancy speculation is nothing compared to what they deserve

I didn't know that basic human decency only applies to people that we liked, or people who have the same political beliefs as us. Look, I personally can't stand Anna. I think she's gotten a pass on her shitty behavior because a lot of people feel sorry for her. That said, she's still a human with human feelings, and if we only show basic human compassion to people who agree with us than 1. we're no different than they are and 2 where do we draw the line? 

Let's not kid ourselves. We aren't snarking on her hateful views (something that she can actually control) we're participating in a culture of misogny that is partially why so many young women feel the need to starve themselves and cut themselves. I don't care what her beliefs are, it is not okay to make any girl or woman hate herself because of the way she looks. That's true for the liberal activists and the Duggar daughters alike. Fuck that noise.

If people want to say Anna's pregnant because of the way her stomach looks, then by all means go ahead. But I'm also going to go ahead and voice my strong disapproval because that line of thinking hurts all women, and no woman deserves that cruelty. Fuck. That. Noise. 

@HerNameIsBuffy well put. You said that perfectly. 

[Rachel333]

1 hour ago, SassyPants said:

I wanted to add that if we are addressing body shaming, we should also refrain from talking about Josh or Dereck's physical sizes too. This goes beyond the size and shape of someone's midsection or uterus.

Like calling Derick "skeletor," as I've seen a lot of people do?

[HerNameIsBuffy]

3 minutes ago, Rachel333 said:

Like calling Derick "skeletor," as I've seen a lot of people do?

People should speak up when they are bothered by that, or anything.

Everyone is free to post whatever they like, within the rule, but no one is entitled to do so free from criticism and opposing view points.

IMO if someone resorts to cracks about their looks then it seems like their beliefs and lifestyles can't be that bad and that's a real shame.

[Rachel333]

8 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

People should speak up when they are bothered by that, or anything.

You've got to pick your battles, though. If I spoke up every time something bothered me here, or anywhere, I would be exhausted and I'm sure a lot of people would find it really obnoxious. Some things I feel are important enough that I'll speak up about it even if I don't feel like it, others I'll leave alone if I don't feel like I have the mental energy for it.

[SassyPants]

8 minutes ago, Rachel333 said:

You've got to pick your battles, though. If I spoke up every time something bothered me here, or anywhere, I would be exhausted and I'm sure a lot of people would find it really obnoxious. Some things I feel are important enough that I'll speak up about it even if I don't feel like it, others I'll leave alone if I don't feel like I have the mental energy for it.

For all the people very much bothered by the talk of who might be pregnant, I don't think I've ever seen anyone make similar comments when people make less than kind comments about Josh's size. We cannot have it both ways.

[Rachel333]

1 minute ago, SassyPants said:

For all the people very much bothered by the talk of who might be pregnant, I don't think I've ever seen anyone make similar comments when people make less than kind comments about Josh's size. We cannot have it both ways.

The first big FJ argument I remember being involved in was because I thought the comments people were making about Josh's size were horrible (they were much worse than even the comments people make now). Pretty much everyone disagreed with me and it was overwhelming and awful. FJ has changed a lot on that issue and I think it would go much differently now, but I still have a bit of an aversion to that particular topic.

[SapphireSlytherin]

Well, I'm still gonna call him Derick-of-the-Jacked-Up-Jaw. Y'all can downvote me all you want, but I can't deal with the fucked-up results from the obviously poor dental practitioner he's chosen.

[HerNameIsBuffy]

27 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

For all the people very much bothered by the talk of who might be pregnant, I don't think I've ever seen anyone make similar comments when people make less than kind comments about Josh's size. We cannot have it both ways.

It's not a question of having it both ways, or one way.  If it bothers people when that happens they can speak up - but speaking up doesn't come with the obligation to do so every time one sees it.  

I will speak up about the body shit when I see it, that doesn't mean I'm going to seek out Josh threads and make sure no one is shaming him.  That's for the people who see it to address as they see fit, like with anyone.

[SassyPants]

I will agree to disagree on this issue. I truly believe the "body shaming"default is used based  on who is being shamed. I think we tend to be fairly selective on FJ in terms of our outrage.

31 minutes ago, SapphireSlytherin said:

Well, I'm still gonna call him Derick-of-the-Jacked-Up-Jaw. Y'all can downvote me all you want, but I can't deal with the fucked-up results from the obviously poor dental practitioner he's chosen.

Maybe he didn't have a choice and used the provider who took his insurance-

[HerNameIsBuffy]

Just now, SassyPants said:

I will agree to disagree on this issue. I truly believe the "body shaming"default is used based  on who is being shamed. I think we tend to be fairly selective on FJ in terms of our outrage.

Sure, and agreeing to disagree is fine.  I'll only say I would completely agree with you if it was a rule being broken - then I would agree there is absolutely an obligation to apply the rule fairly.

But people aren't going to regulate outrage the same way - they speak out when they get pissed and not everything pisses people off equally.

But yeah, at the end of the day it's just opinion.

[nelliebelle1197]

20 hours ago, Destiny said:

I am overweight. I've been overweight most of my adult life despite being in pretty good shape. I run 10+ miles a week. I exercise every day. I'm still government issue overweight. I've been invited by the staff to go shop elsewhere because "this is a store for not fat people". I've been told I'm a fat cow, despite being in the best shape of my life and probably better than most people. 

All of this is irrelevant, because the damage from the OMG you are so fat, you don't fit society's standards is long lasting. There is still a part of me that hates myself because I'm not a perfect size 0. I tried to be bulimic as a teen. Scrutinising bodies is damaging and we shouldn't do it. 

Separate from all that, the contents of someone's uterus, or lack thereof, is none of our business unless we are the uterus owner or the person who might have put sperm in it. 

You are not overweight. Unless by overweight you mean you are not the size of Kate Moss. You should never think you are overweight. I saw myself as hugely fat as a size 4. I would not even wear jeans. I have baby weight from a seven year old baby thanks to an emergency c-section and I find myself covering up and hiding now. It's terrible what we do to ourselves.

[HerNameIsBuffy]

2 minutes ago, nelliebelle1197 said:

You are not overweight.

Thank you, maybe she'll listen to you.

Whenever I tell her she keeps quoting the government at me.  

I think it's super illustrative of the point we were trying to make - if someone as good looking as she is can be affected by this kind of scrutiny then it's hard to argue that it's not damaging.

[nelliebelle1197]

1 minute ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

Thank you, maybe she'll listen to you.

Whenever I tell her she keeps quoting the government at me.  

I think it's super illustrative of the point we were trying to make - if someone as good looking as she is can be affected by this kind of scrutiny then it's hard to argue that it's not damaging.

Yeah, right. Sure she will.

I am 5'6" and wear a size 8/M in most brands and my weight makes me overweight on charts. I have lots of yoga and natural muscle covered in a nice soft layer of wrapping. My doc is always shocked at my actual weight on the scale. Charts mean bumpkis.

[BernRul]

11 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

I will agree to disagree on this issue. I truly believe the "body shaming"default is used based  on who is being shamed. I think we tend to be fairly selective on FJ in terms of our outrage.

I mention it when it comes up re pregnancy speculation because society's preoccupation with women's looks  has convinced many young woman that their looks are the most important part of them, and that attitude has resulted in a lot of mental health issues for said women. It's an issue that's a little close to home for me, since I know multiple women who have suffered from eating disorders. Yeah, it's also wrong to do it to the guys, and I don't like it when people make fun of Josh for being fat, but men don't  face the same unrelenting pressure that women do. And I don't like seeing posts on FJ, which likes to think of itself as a progressive and feminist space, contribute to this toxic, misogynistic, women-shaming environment. Can't speak for anyone else, but that's why I'm selective about it. 

[apiscue]

Josh and Anna have never been a healthy couple in terms of food or physical exercise. Remember the ridiculous storyline of josh and jimbob with the personal trainer of the last seasons.
Other women like jess or whitney bates have shown concern in looking better after giving birth but Anna has never seemed to worry about it and we can say that she has more serious problems in her life to focus on.

[lumpentheologie]

11 hours ago, Rachel333 said:

I disagree that it doesn't matter who the target of "body shaming" is, and I really don't think it helps anyone to literally bring up Hitler in these conversations.

It's just that this is an argument I've seen about Trump, that "body shaming" him is wrong, and I do understand where some of those people are coming from, but I simply disagree. I don't think it's wrong to point out that someone who has very publicly bullied women for their appearance and weight is himself very overweight (and almost certainly lying about just how much) and does not meet the attractiveness standards he demands in others. That's not to say I think you can just mock the appearance of anyone you dislike (I don't like it when I see people mocking Sarah Huckabee Sanders's appearance) but I think it does matter who these people are.

(Also, there's a difference in calling out hypocrisy and in saying something like that all fat people are gross.)

For the record, I don't think the fundies we talk about deserve to be body shamed. I don't think they deserve to have misogynist insults used against them either, and that seems to be another area where I disagree with many FJ posters, considering the amount of times I've seen posters call a fundie women a "bitch" or worse.

This is a hard one, but I think there's an important difference between body shaming and pointing out hypocrisy. 

I do think body shaming is never okay, even for Trump. It can be tempting, but it ends up hurting other people more than it would hurt him. For example I thought the naked sculptures of him that appeared in parks before the election in 2016 were in bad taste. Obviously people are free to make whatever art they like, but those were clearly meant to shame him for being fat, and they just serve to reinforce the idea that being fat is bad and gross. 

I do think it's okay, and even good, to point out that he doesn't meet the (unrealistic) beauty standards he demands of women.  But saying that he's not objectively physically attractive because he doesn't meet those standards accepts and reinforces the idea that thin is (and should be) attractive and anything other than thin isn't.  Fat people can also be beautiful and attractive, and while it's fine for people to have individual preferences about what attracts them, I think we should try not to reinforce harmful supposedly objective beauty standards for either men or women. 

[LilMissMetaphor]

11 hours ago, apiscue said:

Other women like jess or whitney bates have shown concern in looking better after giving birth but Anna has never seemed to worry about it and we can say that she has more serious problems in her life to focus on.

Really? Orrrrrrrrr....Maybe she doesn't want to talk about weight/body issues on camera for the entire world and/or be taped carrying out her personal exercise routine and then be forced to say stupid shit on camera like, "Well, I like to go for a walk/do 50 pushups/run on the treadmill every day because you know, it's important to me to look my best after I have a baby".

Good thing we all have the prescience/wisdom to know what people worry about based on a few hours of footage of their lives here and there!  

[AussieKrissy]

On 11/10/2018 at 11:10 AM, Lyle Lanley said:

Subtle nod to Grandma Mary?

Really wonder if Anna wishes she hadn't committed to the "M" theme now.

I wonder that too. It was always a stupid idea (in my opinion). Now with none of the other kids (seeming too) follow it.looks even more stupid and pidgeon holed. Imagine having to settle for a name you were just meh about because of a theme. The Duggar’s couldn’t even get it right. So many pretty and nice j names abandoned they manage to fuck that too. So far at least Anna’s names are good. Not the worlds biggest fan of McKinzee or however it is spelt and Marcus has a stupid middle name. But they are all good names otherwise. So far no jingers or Johanna/joyanna/Josie/josiah Same same