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Josh, Anna, and M'kids part 18: The Prodigal Son Returneth

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Unimpressed
AliceInFundyland
2 minutes ago, Dominionatrix said:

You're right, and I was misinformed and too quick to correct. My goal was to note that it's reasonable to be concerned that he might reoffend.

 

I'm relatively new to FJ, and seem to have missed a lot of prior debate on this topic, but the last thing I want to do is make a difficult topic harder for anyone, and I sincerely apologize if I have.

Well cool, :) And I was deleting my post anyway while you typed that, so that was a fj dustup that nobody will ever know about.

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BadMurphy
4 hours ago, Carm_88 said:

Well, if you want to be technical, it did not. It happened in the little house from the first special.

Yes, it was a different four walls. But the same exact household.  If having the older 4 J girls around the first time didn't protect that 5th victim, why would having the younger 4 around make a difference?

 

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mstee

I would venture to guess that the girls don’t have sleepovers. My friends that grew up in conservative households were never allowed to have sleepovers or attend them. Their parents said nothing good would come of it (I always enjoyed my pizza and candy comas!). So maybe that’s one awkward thing the kids won’t have to deal with in their community. 

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Rachel333

I'm sure it just depends on the family. I've had sleepovers with girls from ATI families (some of them have even been on the Duggars' show). I don't think the Duggars themselves have ever mentioned the girls having sleepovers though, have they?

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Happy
Carm_88
1 hour ago, BadMurphy said:

Yes, it was a different four walls. But the same exact household.  If having the older 4 J girls around the first time didn't protect that 5th victim, why would having the younger 4 around make a difference?

Because Josh doesn't live there anymore? He lives in his own house with Anna and their kids?

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TheRadleyPorch

I know this pedophile or child molester conversation has been beaten into the ground, but I'd argue that it's much worse to be the latter than the former. Someone who is a pedophile can't be blamed for their desires, only their actions, and they should only be condemned if they act on their desires. Pedophilia is disordered attraction and as far as we know there's really no effective treatment for it, though I hope there will be in the future. 

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LacyMay
32 minutes ago, TheRadleyPorch said:

I know this pedophile or child molester conversation has been beaten into the ground, but I'd argue that it's much worse to be the latter than the former. Someone who is a pedophile can't be blamed for their desires, only their actions, and they should only be condemned if they act on their desires. Pedophilia is disordered attraction and as far as we know there's really no effective treatment for it, though I hope there will be in the future. 

Josh was neither though. He was a Juvenile Sexual Offender, language and terminology matters. 

If we want to label him accuracy matters. It won't change what he did, it won't make his actions any more or less palatable. But it will make for more open, honest and accurate discussion. Saying he is or isn't a paedophile doesn't make what he did any less wrong it just means he's not a paedophile. 

 

Also maybe I missed this, but since pedophilia is a diagnosable psychiatric disorder doesn't calling him one amount to diagnosing him with it? I seem to recall people getting called out for diagnosing in past but I'm not in this thread as much so I might have just missed it here. 

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TheRadleyPorch

I probably wasn't clear enough, my post was not intended to apply any particular label to Josh, just pointing out the difference between the terms that are often used for him (neither one of which I think is accurate) and expressing which one I would argue is worse. More thread-drifty than actually discussing Josh. I also think language matters, that's why it bothers me when the term pedophile is routinely used interchangeably with child molester or child rapist (or juvenile sexual offender, for that matter). 

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nickelodeon

I feel like it's not inaccurate or unfair to call someone a child molester when they have, like... molested children.

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BlessaYourHeart
1 hour ago, nickelodeon said:

I feel like it's not inaccurate or unfair to call someone a child molester when they have, like... molested children.

He was a child himself though, I think that’s forgotten sometimes in these conversations. A lot of people (not directed at you) act as though Josh was a 50 year old man molesting children. It doesn’t mean his actions werent disgusting or wrong, it’s just terminology is so important when discussing these matters. 

Josh was clearly sexually repressed by his parents and he acted out. In any normal situation he would recieve mental health help, but in this family that’s not an option. Probably why he went on to cheat on Anna, he cannot have a healthy view of sex and sexuality coming out of that family 

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KelseyAnn
11 hours ago, LacyMay said:

Josh was neither though. He was a Juvenile Sexual Offender, language and terminology matters. 

If we want to label him accuracy matters. It won't change what he did, it won't make his actions any more or less palatable. But it will make for more open, honest and accurate discussion. Saying he is or isn't a paedophile doesn't make what he did any less wrong it just means he's not a paedophile. 

 

Also maybe I missed this, but since pedophilia is a diagnosable psychiatric disorder doesn't calling him one amount to diagnosing him with it? I seem to recall people getting called out for diagnosing in past but I'm not in this thread as much so I might have just missed it here. 

4

Umm..he for sure molested children. Idk what you've read, but that very much happened - making him a child molester. If you want to add former to that, go ahead, but that is something that very much happened. 

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SamiKatz
3 hours ago, BlessaYourHeart said:

He was a child himself though, I think that’s forgotten sometimes in these conversations. A lot of people (not directed at you) act as though Josh was a 50 year old man molesting children. It doesn’t mean his actions werent disgusting or wrong, it’s just terminology is so important when discussing these matters. 

Josh was clearly sexually repressed by his parents and he acted out. In any normal situation he would recieve mental health help, but in this family that’s not an option. Probably why he went on to cheat on Anna, he cannot have a healthy view of sex and sexuality coming out of that family 

Josh was a teenager, not a child.  He was more than responsible for his actions and absolutely capable of knowing they were wrong.  

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BlessaYourHeart
2 minutes ago, SamiKatz said:

Josh was a teenager, not a child.  He was more than responsible for his actions and absolutely capable of knowing they were wrong.  

Still a child in the eyes of the law, and also considering the stunted maturing that happened in that house, I’m not sure he could be considered on par with other teenagers. 

Oh I completely agree that he was old enough to know his actions were wrong. A 10 year old would know that! However, we don’t know if there may be underlying mental issues that come as a consequence of his upbringing. Living in that environment would mess anyone up. 

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Waffle Time
OldFadedStar

Something about the potential emotional maturity...

a lot of of people were upset when Joy got married because “she is so young” and “she likely has the maturity of a 12 year old”. 

The duggars now are going to be less sheltered than they were before the show. Even if you only count the crew, they’ve been exposed to outside influences more than they were prior. Joy also had older sisters who were married who could share some experience.

Josh was a 14, 15, 16 year old boy in an environment that his emotional maturity can’t be chalked up to most 14-16 year old boys. Especially prior to the show. 

Yes, he should have known what he was doing was wrong, especially when he had been “talked” to about it before. 

But if we are going to push how much the girls were sheltered and not ready for marriage, shouldn’t we understand that Josh potentially didn’t have the emotional maturity to understand the extent of what he was doing? 

 

100% what Josh did was wrong and his parents failed him and his sisters. 

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Tired
SassyPantswithASideofClass
On ‎10‎/‎14‎/‎2018 at 7:34 PM, mstee said:

I would venture to guess that the girls don’t have sleepovers. My friends that grew up in conservative households were never allowed to have sleepovers or attend them. Their parents said nothing good would come of it (I always enjoyed my pizza and candy comas!). So maybe that’s one awkward thing the kids won’t have to deal with in their community. 

Ikr? I went to a few sleepovers growing up, however I was so shy growing up, that I didn't like being away from the house for long. Once I hit my teen years, I got over that. I grew up in a conservative household yet I was allowed to do a lot of stuff that Lori and Ken would be horrified about. (Like wearing pants, shorts, a bikini in the pool, tanks, etc)

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JordynDarby5

Josh didn't have to molest anyone. He chose to. He knew it was wrong he went and confess to his parents after the first time and was upset. He chose to continue. Yes, his parents are responsible for doing nothing until molested four more girls and for covering it up instead of getting him and their daughters help. But he's just as responsible. His childhood was horrible and crappy but that doesn't excuse anything he did. Lots of children are raised in horrible abusive homes. They don't molest anyone. Josh faced zero consequences for what he did. His victims had to accept his apology, they had to continue to cook, clean and do his laundry. They had no choice. Josh had choice whether to make gross comments on TV about his sisters and grossly ask about their kisses. He was held up as an example of what all Christian boys should be. He had a choice not to accuse other groups of being molesters.  

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Mama Mia
On 10/18/2018 at 9:15 AM, SassyPantswithASideofClass said:

Ikr? I went to a few sleepovers growing up, however I was so shy growing up, that I didn't like being away from the house for long. Once I hit my teen years, I got over that. I grew up in a conservative household yet I was allowed to do a lot of stuff that Lori and Ken would be horrified about. (Like wearing pants, shorts, a bikini in the pool, tanks, etc)

It doesn’t seem to me that sleepovers , in general, are as common as they used to be. The McKenzie age girls in my family have started going to /having them - but only for Birthdays, and there’s only been a few, and each party only had 4 or 5 girls. And they all go to public school, so have a fairly large range of friends. Maybe it will change as they move closer to their teens - but they just don’t have the casual sleeping over at a friends on a weekend, or a dozen girls for a Birthday, that was common when their moms were their age. But like the Duggar’s, they have many close in age cousins, and will have sleepovers with them - 

So, I’m just wondering if it even comes up a great deal? 

 

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FluffySnowball

Have you heard of these rumors yet? I just stumbled across them and find them very scary and it’s possibly quite likely they are somewhat true:

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/nolongerquivering/2018/10/is-josh-duggar-even-worst-of-a-sexual-predator/#comment-4161377090

 

 

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QuiverFullofBooks
10 minutes ago, FluffySnowball said:

Have you heard of these rumors yet? I just stumbled across them and find them very scary and it’s possibly quite likely they are somewhat true:

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/nolongerquivering/2018/10/is-josh-duggar-even-worst-of-a-sexual-predator/#comment-4161377090

 

 

Yes, we’ve been discussing it in the “Pickles and Hairspray” thread.

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singsingsing

I’m confused as to what the author of this article is talking about, though. I didn’t think ‘Sam’ had levelled any new allegations against Josh (besides naming the fifth victim)?

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QuiverFullofBooks
5 minutes ago, singsingsing said:

I’m confused as to what the author of this article is talking about, though. I didn’t think ‘Sam’ had levelled any new allegations against Josh (besides naming the fifth victim)?

“Sam” said that Josh molested the fifth victim’s sister as well, and also that his abuse of his sisters was significantly worse than the Duggars have admitted. S/he also said he was “caught with girls” multiple times, but who knows what that could mean given their crazy standards. 

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Glasgowghirl
11 hours ago, QuiverFullofBooks said:

“Sam” said that Josh molested the fifth victim’s sister as well, and also that his abuse of his sisters was significantly worse than the Duggars have admitted. S/he also said he was “caught with girls” multiple times, but who knows what that could mean given their crazy standards. 

I hope these rumours are false but I also thought the ones about him molesting his sisters was false. I hope this doesn't bring to surface everything for his fifth victim and her sisters because they need to remain protected.

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bananabread

So, based on their congratulations video for Jabbie, Anna is clearly pregnant again. 😥

Name predictions:

Malachi Duggar

Marcella Duggar

Monroe Duggar

My God Stop Breeding With Your Awful Husband Duggar

 

Link: 

 

 

Edited by bananabread
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singsingsing

I just looked back to figure out when Anna said that she wasn't pregnant. It was the beginning of September. She could be pregnant now, but probably not that far along - unless she was lying or mistaken two months ago.

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