Josh, Anna, and M'kids part 18: The Prodigal Son Returneth

[Carm_88]

I don't think Mack should be grateful that she is getting a subpar education because she doesn't have to deal with little assholes.

[The Mother Dust]

@melon I was reading the previous thread, and I know your post is a few months old now, but you mentioned your niece is looking for someone to do a tubal ligation on her.  I had my tubal done at the age of 24, at an outpatient clinic affiliated with Greenwich Hospital in CT.   I can pm you that doctor's name if you want.  I am posting this publicly, because if anyone else wants the name I will PM it to you as well.  Now, this was 14 years ago, and I no longer live in CT, and I haven't kept track of that doc, it's possible she is no longer practicing, etc.  But you can google her if you want.  By the way, 14 years later, and I STILL have no regrets.  HA!!   

[Georgiana]

On 10/10/2018 at 8:52 AM, Carm_88 said:

I don't think Mack should be grateful that she is getting a subpar education because she doesn't have to deal with little assholes.

And honestly, she's not escaping it.  She's just delaying when she has to confront it.  That also means she's being denied practice and possibly the chance to confront it initially in a situation where she can be closely guided by trusted adults.  If she were a normal kid in school, she'd probably get the chance to practice handling it in low-stakes situations where failing to handle it well would be seen as a learning opportunity.  By the time she reached adulthood, she'd likely be very practiced at it and able to confront the situation with poise and grace.  But now she will likely be forced to confront the situation initially as an adult where she will be expected to handle it at least passably in the first go AND potentially in a situation where other things are on the line (like a courtship/potential marriage, reputation for a family business, reputation in general, etc.).  That's a lot of pressure.   

[Dandruff]

I wonder, when Mack reaches courting age, how many guys will be willing to get the fundie third degree from Josh.

[mollysmom]

11 hours ago, Georgiana said:

And honestly, she's not escaping it.  She's just delaying when she has to confront it.  That also means she's being denied practice and possibly the chance to confront it initially in a situation where she can be closely guided by trusted adults.  If she were a normal kid in school, she'd probably get the chance to practice handling it in low-stakes situations where failing to handle it well would be seen as a learning opportunity.  By the time she reached adulthood, she'd likely be very practiced at it and able to confront the situation with poise and grace.  But now she will likely be forced to confront the situation initially as an adult where she will be expected to handle it at least passably in the first go AND potentially in a situation where other things are on the line (like a courtship/potential marriage, reputation for a family business, reputation in general, etc.).  That's a lot of pressure.   

Yes!! This! Exactly!! This is what happened to me!! I was sheltered from the "evil world" my whole life so when I was in my mid 20's and got out in the real world on my own that was a rude awakening!! It was ridiculous!!! I couldn't believe that people swore and talked sexual and lived with their boyfriends (and didn't try to hide it) Yeah, my parents weren't doing me any favors and I would never ever suggest someone do that to their child. It's beyond ridiculous!!!

[melon]

19 hours ago, The Mother Dust said:

@melon I was reading the previous thread, and I know your post is a few months old now, but you mentioned your niece is looking for someone to do a tubal ligation on her.  I had my tubal done at the age of 24, at an outpatient clinic affiliated with Greenwich Hospital in CT.   I can pm you that doctor's name if you want.  I am posting this publicly, because if anyone else wants the name I will PM it to you as well.  Now, this was 14 years ago, and I no longer live in CT, and I haven't kept track of that doc, it's possible she is no longer practicing, etc.  But you can google her if you want.  By the way, 14 years later, and I STILL have no regrets.  HA!!   

Thank you!The Mother Dust!My niece is 25,and lives in NE Ohio.As far as I know,I don't get to see her often enough,she still wants to have this done because she doesn't want to have any children.

[AtlanticTug]

14 hours ago, Dandruff said:

I wonder, when Mack reaches courting age, how many guys will be willing to get the fundie third degree from Josh.

With so many Duggar-in-laws, there will be lots of potential options for the younger kids in these giant extended families. I would bet there will be some cross-marriages in the works.

[The Mother Dust]

16 hours ago, Dandruff said:

I wonder, when Mack reaches courting age, how many guys will be willing to get the fundie third degree from Josh.

HA!  Can you imagine......Josh attempting to grill the suitor on whether he has remained pure before marriage.... LMAO.....oh my god that would be some gall and EPIC hypocrisy.  Would any young man put up with that is the question....

2 hours ago, melon said:

Thank you!The Mother Dust!My niece is 25,and lives in NE Ohio.As far as I know,I don't get to see her often enough,she still wants to have this done because she doesn't want to have any children.

I will PM you the name.  

[viii]

On 10/10/2018 at 3:16 AM, Chewing Gum said:

Yeah and in Public elementary school she would never have a playdate at her house, no rational thinking parent would send their child over there and hope for the best. 

Josh is many, MANY horrible things, but he's not a pedophile. 

[VelociRapture]

4 hours ago, viii said:

Josh is many, MANY horrible things, but he's not a pedophile. 

I agree with you, but I think that@Chewing Gummakes a pretty fair point. I’m pretty sure a lot of parents would be uncomfortable and unwilling to allow play dates at the home of someone who had been accused of molesting minors, regardless of whether that person is actually a pedophile or is someone who was denied an appropriate outlet for their sexual urges and simply went for the first victim they could find. I definitely wouldn’t allow it with my child because I simply can’t justify putting my child into a potentially dangerous situation. 

[SorenaJ]

A pedophile is someone who is sexually attracted to children. We don't know if Josh is sexually attracted to children. He might be, he might not be. Odds are he is not, because most people are not sexually attracted to children. But we don't know. We can't say for sure that he is not sexually attracted to children, just like we can't say for sure he is.

Conclusion: We don't know if Josh is a pedophile. 

[Chewing Gum]

7 hours ago, VelociRapture said:

I agree with you, but I think that@Chewing Gummakes a pretty fair point. I’m pretty sure a lot of parents would be uncomfortable and unwilling to allow play dates at the home of someone who had been accused of molesting minors, regardless of whether that person is actually a pedophile or is someone who was denied an appropriate outlet for their sexual urges and simply went for the first victim they could find. I definitely wouldn’t allow it with my child because I simply can’t justify putting my child into a potentially dangerous situation. 

This. Thank you. 

[tabitha2]

2 hours ago, SorenaJ said:

A pedophile is someone who is sexually attracted to children. We don't know if Josh is sexually attracted to children. He might be, he might not be. Odds are he is not, because most people are not sexually attracted to children. But we don't know. We can't say for sure that he is not sexually attracted to children, just like we can't say for sure he is.

Conclusion: We don't know if Josh is a pedophile. 

 

Then We can’t say for sure anyone is not a Pedophile. Without evidence to say he is it’s  not appropriate for anyone to start calling him one now.

[viii]

16 hours ago, VelociRapture said:

I agree with you, but I think that@Chewing Gummakes a pretty fair point. I’m pretty sure a lot of parents would be uncomfortable and unwilling to allow play dates at the home of someone who had been accused of molesting minors, regardless of whether that person is actually a pedophile or is someone who was denied an appropriate outlet for their sexual urges and simply went for the first victim they could find. I definitely wouldn’t allow it with my child because I simply can’t justify putting my child into a potentially dangerous situation. 

I think majority of parents would hesitate to send their child to the home of someone who sexually assaulted someone. 

Its the pedophile term that I don’t think is applicable. 

[Carm_88]

25 minutes ago, viii said:

Its the pedophile term that I don’t think is applicable. 

Yeah pedophile gets thrown around too much in my opinion. Older guy with a younger woman "Oh my god, he's such a pedophile." Pedo this and pedo that, it's not a catch all phrase. A pedophile is a specific term, and it's not appropriate in Josh's case, to the best of our knowledge at this current time period.

As for being a parent and making the best decision for your children; you don't have to defend that. But that being said, words have meaning and it's important to use them correctly.

[Markie]

I can only imagine play dates when it’s Anna with the kids and another sahm with her kids hanging out together. Perhaps there will be co-op activities and various homeschooling events later on. Josh and Anna will continue going to Big Sandy and the ATI things because Josh can preach about being the prodigal son and how he is now more Godly than anyone else. He seemed buddy buddy with the men at the Frosythe father/son wingding. However, I could see the Dads okay with shooting the shit and talking politics with Josh, yet being reluctant to having their daughters do sleepovers at Mackynzie’s.

[Carm_88]

14 minutes ago, Markie said:

However, I could see the Dads okay with shooting the shit and talking politics with Josh, yet being reluctant to having their daughters do sleepovers at Mackynzie’s.

And they'd probably just do the sleepovers at the TTH with Aunts Jordyn and Josie to get around that.

[VelociRapture]

3 hours ago, viii said:

I think majority of parents would hesitate to send their child to the home of someone who sexually assaulted someone. 

Its the pedophile term that I don’t think is applicable. 

I’m guessing that @Chewing Gumedited that post to remove the reference before I saw it because I don’t remember seeing her use the term pedophile. But yes, that term isn’t really applicable to Josh based off everything currently known. 

[Chewing Gum]

13 hours ago, VelociRapture said:

I’m guessing that @Chewing Gumedited that post to remove the reference before I saw it because I don’t remember seeing her use the term pedophile. But yes, that term isn’t really applicable to Josh based off everything currently known. 

I never edit to change what I said. Only to add, explain or in 99% of the cases, change an autocorrect error because I’m Dutch and my phone doens’t like English. 

Without changing autocorrect, this is what my post looks like:

I never edit to change what I Saïd. Only to ADD, explain or in 99% of the cases, change an autocorrect ertoe because i’m Dutch and my phone dienst like English. 

[VelociRapture]

4 hours ago, Chewing Gum said:

I never edit to change what I said. Only to add, explain or in 99% of the cases, change an autocorrect error because I’m Dutch and my phone doens’t like English. 

Without changing autocorrect, this is what my post looks like:

I never edit to change what I Saïd. Only to ADD, explain or in 99% of the cases, change an autocorrect ertoe because i’m Dutch and my phone dienst like English. 

Sorry. I saw that your post had been edited at some point and figured that was why I was confused about the post by @viii. Now I’m even more confused. I’m very tired right now, so that’s probably why. Carry on with your conversations lovely people! 

[BadMurphy]

 

On October 13, 2018 at 4:07 PM, Carm_88 said:

And they'd probably just do the sleepovers at the TTH with Aunts Jordyn and Josie to get around that.

Which is ironic since that's where it happened in the first place 

[Carm_88]

25 minutes ago, BadMurphy said:

 

Which is ironic since that's where it happened in the first place 

Well, if you want to be technical, it did not. It happened in the little house from the first special.

[Dominionatrix]

[redacted because I was misinformed]

[AliceInFundyland]

ETA: I typed out the response to why he is not a pedophile but I am tired and it’s pointless

I do know that this subject triggers a lot of people so we won’t all ever agree.

It bothers me to tarnish someone beyond what they deserve and that’s a weighted word.

[Dominionatrix]

6 minutes ago, AliceInFundyland said:

It’s not semantics. To be considered a pedophile someone needs to have a primary or exclusive interest in prepubescent children. It is a psychological disorder. Repulsive as he is on almost every level, Josh has not demonstrated that.  He displayed opportunistic  and  predatory behavior of a really fucked up teenage boy in a misogynistic cult. He was not allowed to express his sexuality in a healthy manner and he grievously harmed his whole family. He has not further displayed proof of interest in children.

The incident is really triggering for some of us but we have beat this thing into the ground.

You're right, and I was misinformed and too quick to correct. My goal was to note that it's reasonable to be concerned that he might reoffend.

 

I'm relatively new to FJ, and seem to have missed a lot of prior debate on this topic, but the last thing I want to do is make a difficult topic harder for anyone, and I sincerely apologize if I have.