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Dillards 66: Appropriate Spaces for Inappropriate People


Georgiana

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@just_ordinary I never understood tracking the person, but as someone who has a history of leaving my phone somewhere and forgetting it, I can see how it would be useful if you thought maybe your phone was left in a restaurant. You could have a friend open up the tracker and see if the phone is still at the restaurant or if it's somewhere in the vicinity of where you are. That aside though tracking healthy adults seems weird... even adults at all... 

If all parties are okay with it sure by all means,  it just makes me uncomfortable, like those little trackers on shoes for kids or something. It just seems like a violation. 

That said too I'm a complete troll and if I did have a tracking device on my phone with anyone i'd go to the seediest places I could find. 

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I wouldn't throw Oldest to the recruiters if I didn't think she could do it. I'm prior service Navy, ex husband (her dad) is still active Army, both her grandfathers are retired military, and adopted kiddo left for Air Force basic last week. She's middle of the road for her class so I think she'd do ok on the ASVAB, and she's decided against becoming a teacher so she needs some direction. She even said the Air Force might be ok. She'd learn skills, get money for college and that need to have me so close by to lean on would diminish a little bit. She needs confidence. The shortest term is 3 years so we'll see. 

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On the different issues regarding child raising my daughter got to stay outside on her own while I got ready from about 3. She was outside on her own for about 15-20 mins most of the time. I let her brother do this together with her from about 1.5 years of age but he doesn't get to do that on his own yet (he is just over 2). My rule for this is that this can happen at the earliest when they can open the big door to our apartment building on their own which happened at about 3 for my daughter and I guess my son will be able to at about the same age. From when my daughter was 4 she could play outside at the playstructure outside our apartment building. At age 5 she got to go to the two nearest yards to ours (also apartment buildings around and all owned by the same company so kids can all play there). Cars can drive there but they are generally observant and drive slowly so I am not scared of the kids being run over. Now that she is 6 she goes to the nearby park and to the yard of a friend a about half a block away. She is asking to go to the store on her own too but that might take a couple months before I feel brave enough to let her do that. It is a couple blocks away and while there are some streets to cross there some car free areas too and all the streets have good side walks and she knows the way. It is more about me being brave that her not being ready.

When she gets to be a bit older I will buy her a non-smart phone to bring with her if she goes further away but now she is close enough to home that I don't feel we need that. When she is older, closer to a teen, I will let her have a smartphone. I would not dream of tracking her, that seems very much like crossing the line. These tracking apps always make me think of abusive spouses who wants to know where the other one goes and stay in control all the time. I think it is acceptable as a device to allow say criminals back into society but not as part of a relationship whether parent-child or for a couple. I may consider it with a teen that has severe issues like being at risk of suicide or who is heavy into drugs or so but for a normal family just calling or texting seems like more than enough. I don't even want to know everything my kid is doing just like I don't want them to know everything about me. Yes, it is scary to let them go out into the world but it is also natural and healthy for them to do that and want to do that.

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7 hours ago, kmachete14 said:

My youngest brother is now 15 and has already been to parties. He still has the 11pm curfew but they don't even wait up for him!!!!! He doesn't know how lucky he is lol.

That seems to be so often the case with youngest kids! For all my complaints about my brother not having the same rules as long as I did, he and I did at least have similar experiences growing up. My youngest siblings, on the other hand, practically have a different set of parents!

Just as one example, I grew up being told Harry Potter was evil. I read the books in secret when I was 15 and even though I wasn't explicitly forbidden from reading them when my mom found out about it (thanks to my toddler siblings rummaging through my library bag and bringing her the books) she had a very solemn confrontation with me where she made it clear she was disappointed by my choices. On the other hand, when my youngest sisters were 12 they got really into Harry Potter and my parents not only allowed it but watched every movie with them and bought them Harry Potter merchandise for birthdays and Christmas. I'm glad my parents have mellowed out on that stuff, but it's hard not to be just a little bit bitter sometimes. :pb_lol:

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On the military debate, for those who served or are family, thank you. Coming from a military family in a military city, discussions on joining are layered, both driven and complicated in many cases by a person's own experience in service. I think for many parents of younger kids now it's unfathomable to recommend it, because they grew up in households impacted by the Vietnam draft and the varying experiences of their parents.

My parents met while stationed together in their 30s. They were both alright with me joining, but I wound up ineligible for health reasons.  In contrast, they took a reasoned and graphically realistic tone with my brothers. Peace is fragile, war comes fast and lingers longer than anyone wants.

Ultimately, parents just want what's best for their kids and show tough love in a lot of ways.

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1 hour ago, Rachel333 said:

That seems to be so often the case with youngest kids! For all my complaints about my brother not having the same rules as long as I did, he and I did at least have similar experiences growing up. My youngest siblings, on the other hand, practically have a different set of parents!

Just as one example, I grew up being told Harry Potter was evil. I read the books in secret when I was 15 and even though I wasn't explicitly forbidden from reading them when my mom found out about it (thanks to my toddler siblings rummaging through my library bag and bringing her the books) she had a very solemn confrontation with me where she made it clear she was disappointed by my choices. On the other hand, when my youngest sisters were 12 they got really into Harry Potter and my parents not only allowed it but watched every movie with them and bought them Harry Potter merchandise for birthdays and Christmas. I'm glad my parents have mellowed out on that stuff, but it's hard not to be just a little bit bitter sometimes. :pb_lol:

My ex boyfriend told me my goody two shoes obedient ways made me a horrible sister. He thought I should pave the way for my younger siblings but I guess I just wasn’t the rebellious type. 

When my little sister was 17 she wanted me to buy alcohol for her (the drinking age is 18 if you’re at a bar but 20 in the shop) but I said no. She was so angry with me. 

A few years later she was 20 and our youngest sister wanted her to buy alcohol. She said no. Proud big sister moment right there. 

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Does anyone else here watch Black Mirror?  This discussion on tracking people is reminding me a bit of "Arkangel" in season 4.

As for tracking people, I know that my cousins use Life360, but that's mostly for my aunt to make sure that they get back home from school safely.  My mom always wants to know where my sisters and I are, but a text saying that we got to school/Target/the city safely suffices.

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My husband travels a lot for work. Often out of country and often several times a week. I do use the find iPhone app to see which state or province he is in sometimes. Not because I don't trust him, but because it is fun to see and show the kids where daddy is. He knows I do this, and will often tell me to pull it up if I don't know where a city or town is. I don't use it to check up on him, if I know he is in our city. No point. But if he a 4 days drive away, it is fun to see on a map. 

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My husband and I do the "share my location" on iphone. We dont check it all the time, but I have a job that I am entering strangers houses for. We started it because of that but now I use it to check to see if he is on his way home sometimes if i have to make dinner by the time he gets home. Could he call? Yeah but he doesnt lol. I also use it when he works late... for his night shift ill sometimes check to make sure he got to work safely or if I know he is coming home super late and i hear a noise in my house ill use it to see if its him. Not creepy at all and its totally consensual between the two of us. 

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I can barely handle that our FJ profiles list what thread we're currently looking at, so if my mom told me she wanted to put a surveillance device on me, I'd flip!!

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What is the under/over on JB and Michelle tracking Josh?  Or Anna tracking Josh?  Or Jill tracking Derrick?

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OK, OK. I admit:  I track DH when he's on his way home from work (I get home before he does) so I can make sure I have the litter boxes scooped and a load of laundry going before he gets in... I like to make it look like I've been slaving away while he was driving, when I'm generally surfing FJ or FB. lol

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19 minutes ago, freshlemonade said:

What is the under/over on JB and Michelle tracking Josh?  Or Anna tracking Josh?  Or Jill tracking Derrick?

IDK, Josh might still be stuck on (or reverted back to) the "Flip Phone of Shame" per Duggar protocol.

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2 hours ago, freshlemonade said:

What is the under/over on JB and Michelle tracking Josh?  Or Anna tracking Josh?  Or Jill tracking Derrick?

Jill is practically welded to Derick's hip, I doubt she has to track him. lol

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On 10/3/2018 at 7:33 PM, BachelorToTheRapture said:

I know quite a few people my age who live at home with their parents, the rest of us can't imagine! (I'm 25).

I actually lived with my parents till I got married at 27. I now live on the same block. :my_biggrin: Honestly, I think a lot depends on personalities of those involved. My parents and I got along well and respected each other's privacy. I pitched in at the house and paid my own way, they asked that I tell them when I was getting home at night so they didn't worry, and we were able to talk about things that bothered us when they became an issue. Now we usually call before going to each other's houses, but it's still no problem to run from one to the other to check on something or ask for a cup of sugar or something if necessary. For some of my friends, though, moving out ASAP was the best thing for their relationship with their parents!

This whole tracking the kids thing and not playing outside is bizarre to me. I was born in the 80s in suburbia, so while my parents had a great deal of caution (knowing where we were going and the like), I had a great deal of freedom. It probably helped that some of my friends were only a couple of doors away, and that when I was in the backyard as a small child we had a fence and usually my older siblings and a large dog. TBH, I'd be a little more leery now of letting my kid play outside unsupervised for a few reasons (no fence at this house, more build-up area resulting in more traffic on the road, windows poorly placed for me to see outside easily), but he's still going to be able to at some point, and I suspect the neighbor a few houses down has a "kick the kids out in the yard except for lunch" policy during vacations.

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I will admit that I use a GPS tracker on my boys at very specific and agreed upon times.  Boys are 24 and 21.  

We live in the mountains, and they like to take off riding their motorcycles around the steepest, curviest roads they can find.  

There's been many cases of motorcyclists going off into ravines and dying because no one found them in time.  Neither the bike, nor them could be seen.  

So, if they go riding up there alone, we all make sure the GPS is on.  The app we use is Life360. They approached me with the idea, as a safety precaution.  Youngest one said he much preferred giving up a little bit of his privacy, for the peace of mind that we will know where to look for him if we need to.  (This app has crash detection, so if they don't respond after a crash, the app calls me.) 

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My husband and I have the “find my friends” app on our phones. I lost my first husband in a car accident and I panic when I hear sirens. It’s nice to be able to quickly check where my current husband is. Either one of us can turn it off any time we want and neither of us use it as a controlling thing. 

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Oh my I feel like I'm going to be a horrible helicopter parent. I was not allowed to go out on my own till I was in junior high and even then still needed to be with someone. I feel I'd do the same for my kids. I have always been a "safety in numbers" person. The common demoninator in all my parents stories of their adventures growing up was that they were in groups. My friends now with kids under 10 don't let them play outside beyond their vision from the front or back yard. I feel like I'd be the same. I don't care how safe the neighborhood is techincally, I don't want to be the case that makes the news. I feel a bit better now with smartphones, not to track my kids but knowing they had a way to call for help if they needed it. 

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21 minutes ago, bella8050 said:

I don't care how safe the neighborhood is techincally, I don't want to be the case that makes the news. I feel a bit better now with smartphones, not to track my kids but knowing they had a way to call for help if they needed it. 

Well, to give you some peace of mind, stranger and minor acquaintance abduction is less than 1% of child abductions. There really isn't as much stranger danger as we were taught. Most children are abducted by their parents, during messy divorce cases or separation.

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@Carm_88 Yeah I get that intectually, but I still can't feel it in my gut. I grew up always suspicious of my suroundings. Even now whenever I go out to the store I'm always looking over my shoulder. 

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6 hours ago, Carm_88 said:

Well, to give you some peace of mind, stranger and minor acquaintance abduction is less than 1% of child abductions. There really isn't as much stranger danger as we were taught. Most children are abducted by their parents, during messy divorce cases or separation.

I can see that being true most places but I live in one of the biggest human trafficking areas in the us. Just the other day a little girl almost got abducted by police recognized traffickers at kohls (popular department store) in a "nice neighborhood" and the police pretty much said that yeah they're having issues with it sorry.

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Yeah, "only 1%" is actually quite HUGE, if you're in that 1%.

From the National Center for Missing & Exploited Children:

Quote

 

In 2017 NCMEC assisted law enforcement and families with more than 27,000 cases of missing children.

Case type:

91 percent endangered runaways.

 5 percent family abductions.

 3 percent critically missing young adults, ages 18 to 20.

 1 percent nonfamily abductions.

 Less than 1 percent lost, injured or otherwise missing children.

 

1% of 27,000 is 270. 

270 is a LOT of kids.

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270 out of 74.2 million children in America. Sure, for those 270 families that's horrific, but your chances are still vanishingly small. 

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2 hours ago, ladyaudley said:

270 out of 74.2 million children in America. Sure, for those 270 families that's horrific, but your chances are still vanishingly small. 

I can respect that I just think you need to account for where you live too.

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My older siblings were allowed a lot of freedom. The boy mostly behaved. The girl mostly didn’t. When I hit high school, my mother basically treated me as if I would repeat girl sibling’s behavior, despite her being the popular, partying prom queen and I was the awkward bookworm determined to stay a virgin until I got married and whose idea of a great time was going to the “cool” video store and spending the night at a friend’s house with free reign of the vcr. I also had a friend whose parents were very lenient, allowing her and her younger brother to drink in the house, letting her boyfriends spend the night (on the couch, not in her room, like that really stopped anything), etc., and she was way more of a hellion than any of my other friends. Cheating on her boyfriends, sneaking out in the middle of the night, going to wild parties, stealing beer (even though it was allowed) because “it’s better when they don’t know” - everything you’d associate with the stereotype of out of control teenagers. Strict parents don’t always create wild kids, and lenient ones don’t necessarily get responsible kids. Parents can do whatever they like, but i think most times, in the end, the kid is going to be who the kid is going to be. 

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