Dillards 66: Appropriate Spaces for Inappropriate People

[farmerannie]

Maybe I'm a horrible mom, but my kids always played outside by themselves after the age of three, granted we lived in a small town with a lot of land and a fenced back yard. My son is 23 graduated from college lives 1000 miles from me we talk frequently but i have no desire to track him. My girls are 20 and 18 and in college I have no desire to track them either they are grown ups and the have my phone number if they need me lol.

[Rachel333]

3 hours ago, SapphireSlytherin said:

Eh. I still track my kid. And my husband. And my dad. And they all track me (and each other) too. It's an app we use called FindFriends, and we find it useful to know if someone's ghosting you, or just at work, or at a movie. lol

I'm well aware that a lot of people use it that way for friends and family and that's totally fine if everyone really is okay with it and isn't being pressured into it.

To me, though, it can be creepy, and I don't feel like it's anyone's business if I'm "ghosting" them! (I'm assuming this context is different from how "ghosting" is typically used.) I really dislike the expectation these days that you should always be available unless you actually can't use your phone.

Privacy is also something that's really important to me and I hate the idea of someone always being able to see where I am. (It's not like I even go anywhere I need to hide from people, I just like privacy!) I don't want to have to turn my phone off to avoid being tracked by people I know.

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

5 hours ago, louisa05 said:

My cousin's wife has the tracker app on her kids's phones. 

Her kids are 26 (27 in two months) and 23. I worry about the tracker apps. When do you take it off? What is the motivation for it? This woman has a lot of excuses for tracking the whereabouts of her fully grown adult children. And when she really wants them to know she is watching, she posts about it on social media and tags them in the posts, too. I feel like too many parents are not figuring out how to let go. 

As for your goddaughters, a 16 year old should know how to navigate the world on her own at least some of the time. And a 13 year old should at least be able to get home from school on her own (barring inclement weather--as a midwesterner, I do still think making kids walk when it's ten below zero is unnecessary!). 

Um, your cousin sounds like a control freak, yikes.  We have this app it is called Life360 we put it on all of our phones a few years ago, it was nice for us to be able to see where they were, both were driving and had jobs so it was less hassle for them because we didn't have to keep texting them "where are you?" we knew. LOL. We still have the apps on our phones, my kids are 18 and almost 21, the 21 yr old is on his own cell plan and has his own job and stuff, but we all like it because it is nice to see where the others are at.  The kids track us more than we track them, because we aren't ever home either.  I assume at some point we will take them off but right now we all like the piece of mind of knowing where each of us is at, especially when the  18 yr old girl is out walking alone, at night on a college campus, 2 hours away, Safety feature right there.

[SapphireSlytherin]

Yeah, we are all OK with it. I don't have my son-in-law on my list - just my dad, my husband, and my daughter. And if I'm at an urgent care clinic, I turn off the location services on the app so my dad doesn't panic if he sees me there. lol

BTW, in that paragraph, above, I've just told you the makeup of my ENTIRE family. Yeah, I have cousins and aunts/uncles, but in terms of my family, all I have are those four people. 

Edit: In fact, most of my daughter's and my texts start with "WAY" (for where are you). lol

[Shadoewolf]

I've been booting the kids outside since they were about 6. Always in the fenced yard where I could constantly look out the window. They walk the 4 blocks to school starting in 4th grade. They ride/skate/play until the streetlights come on and they both wear a watch, check in at designated times. 

Oldest turned 18 and graduated HS this summer, got her driver's license last week. We told her at the beginning of senior year she could live at home so long as she did 1 of 3 things:  in school full time, work full time (with her rent being 25% of her net pay), or a combo of work and school. She decided to take the fall semester off and work full time until her boss turned out to be a total nut case so she quit. That was a month ago and she's made NO effort to find another job, just been bumming around the house and hanging out with her friends still in high school. So we gave her until Nov 1 to get a full time job or she's out. There's no freebies and we live in a decent area for jobs so she has no excuse. She can sleep in her car or find the local recruiter office. 

I wish I could put a tracker on Hubby's phone. He has issues telling the truth a lot of the time and it'd be nice to know he is where he says at any given time. But he'd never go for it.

ETA: Fayetteville and Bentonville both have really great parks, not like it'd be hard for Jill to take them to play. But then she and the kiddos might get exposed to some evil normal people. The horror!

[AliceInFundyland]

One of the reasons I finally had to get a new phone is because it was failing to tell me where I was. It was too old, apps were going out. I don’t require much but when the transit app went down life started to get difficult. I took a 45 minute walk to a store 15 minutes from where I live. (Partly my own fault, I should have trusted my gut, but still.)  

I maintain a healthy distance from everyone else. But I need to know where I am, and I’m relatively ok with the powers that be knowing where I am if something happens. (Up until I choose a life of crime. I am still undecided on years 39-90)

[SapphireSlytherin]

9 hours ago, Shadoewolf said:

Oldest turned 18 and graduated HS this summer, got her driver's license last week. We told her at the beginning of senior year she could live at home so long as she did 1 of 3 things:  in school full time, work full time (with her rent being 25% of her net pay), or a combo of work and school. She decided to take the fall semester off and work full time until her boss turned out to be a total nut case so she quit. That was a month ago and she's made NO effort to find another job, just been bumming around the house and hanging out with her friends still in high school. So we gave her until Nov 1 to get a full time job or she's out. There's no freebies and we live in a decent area for jobs so she has no excuse. She can sleep in her car or find the local recruiter office. 

We did the same with GryffindorDisappointment. She moved out at 19 after feeling SO PUT-UPON for having to pay $100/month rent. And she quit paying rent about three months before she left - which meant we were putting a lot of "pressure" on her to pay up or move out. 

She says now that's one of the best things we did in raising her - she learned early how to be self-sufficient. I know she ate a LOT of ramen noodles. lol

[Kailash]

18 hours ago, SamiKatz said:

I grew up in an area in Canada with a lot of snakes (including poisonous ones) and grew up with a healthy respect for them.  I was going to go on a hike with a boyfriend at one time and went on about snakes so much, he said to me "Are you from *area I grew up in*".  I was astonished and said yes and asked him how he knew and he said it was the snake thing, as apparently I just lived in a very snake friendly area and the whole province didn't have as many/such a variety.   I think they're beautiful creatures but I wouldn't own one.  

I haven’t finished reading this thread but this is a pet peeve of mine so I wanted to mention it. If you bite it and get sick, it’s poisonous. If it bites you and you get sick or die, it’s venomous.

My apologies if this was already mentioned. 

[feministxtian]

11 hours ago, Shadoewolf said:

Oldest turned 18 and graduated HS this summer, got her driver's license last week. We told her at the beginning of senior year she could live at home so long as she did 1 of 3 things:  in school full time, work full time (with her rent being 25% of her net pay), or a combo of work and school. She decided to take the fall semester off and work full time until her boss turned out to be a total nut case so she quit. That was a month ago and she's made NO effort to find another job, just been bumming around the house and hanging out with her friends still in high school. So we gave her until Nov 1 to get a full time job or she's out. There's no freebies and we live in a decent area for jobs so she has no excuse. She can sleep in her car or find the local recruiter office. 

I told my kids "grass, gas or ass, no free rides". They hate that saying. 

Take her to the local recruiting office, drop her off. Tell her you'll pick her up when she signs the enlistment contract. 

[justoneoftwo]

1 hour ago, feministxtian said:

I told my kids "grass, gas or ass, no free rides". They hate that saying. 

Take her to the local recruiting office, drop her off. Tell her you'll pick her up when she signs the enlistment contract. 

I have to say think hard before enlisting or asking your children to. a one sided contract singing away your life. Its noble and all, but do think it through.

[SassyPants]

1 minute ago, justoneoftwo said:

I have to say think hard before enlisting or asking your children to. a one sided contract singing away your life. Its noble and all, but do think it through.

And I think the military is fairly choosey these days as to who they will take.

[feministxtian]

6 minutes ago, justoneoftwo said:

I have to say think hard before enlisting or asking your children to. a one sided contract singing away your life. Its noble and all, but do think it through.

When my son enlisted, we had a few long talks about it. He asked my husband to go with him to the recruiter's office (hubs is retired navy) and there were quite a few discussions.

These days, they are pretty picky but it's mostly have to have a HS diploma, a minimum score on the ASVAB, no criminal history and pass the physical. A friend's son is a Navy Nuke, surface fleet. He loves it. 

My advice would be to go Navy or Air Force, take advantage of the educational opportunities, try to get in the program that will make you an officer after you finish college. A friend's husband did that and based on his time in grade, he got commissioned as a LT Commander. 

 

[RainbowSky]

On 10/3/2018 at 9:42 AM, louisa05 said:

Sadly, I don't think that not taking kids outside is an odd thing anymore. The local school district here teaches kids in preK-5 that they should never be outside without an adult present, never cross a street without an adult, and walks them 50 feet from the front door of the school to the buses--in small groups no less--FOR SAFETY. I have had the teacher duty there of walking kids who walk home for the first FOUR BLOCKS from the school where parents or siblings of at least high school age are supposed to meet them before you can allow them to proceed. I have had the teacher duty of literally walking a kid home who lived ONE BLOCK over from the school. 

Mind you, I live in a midwestern semi-rural town with a population of 9000 and no child abductions or other crimes against children within the memory of neighbors who have lived here for 40+ years. 

Very few kids play outside here. In our previous neighborhood, moms would sit outside while 9 and 10 year olds rode bikes very slowly on their driveways aumm... couple of times a week. Our new next door neighbors are kind of old school and their two kids (8 and 12) are outside on their own all the time. But they are usually stuck only playing with each other as the rest of the neighborhood kids are rarely allowed. 

So umm... my higher elementary kids are still dismissed by handful of bus numbers at a time, in a line. I was shocked when my kid started K and it was explained to me. 6th grade!?!?!

We're in a smaller area than you...

[EmmieJ]

15 minutes ago, justoneoftwo said:

I have to say think hard before enlisting or asking your children to. a one sided contract singing away your life. Its noble and all, but do think it through.

As a mom to an active duty Marine, I echo this sentiment.  Please don't use the military as a drop off point for your 18 or 19-year olds, just because.  I really wanted my son to choose college, but he wants to go to a university, not a state college and I can't afford tuition at the universities he is focused on.  So he made the decision to join the military in order to hopefully achieve his goals of a particular sort of higher education.  He is an over-achiever, so he actually liked boot camp because it was extremely challenging.  He has a job he finds exciting but is dangerous and I freaking worry every single day, and count off the months until is 4-year enlistment is over.

Back to tracking your adult child via an app on their phone - obviously, this is something that works for some people, but I never did that.  Sure, there were times when my son was out way too late and not responding to my texts, and I yelled at him when he got home - but I so value my own privacy that it would have been hypocritical of me to invade son's privacy in that way.  

On the other hand, when he was a youngster, I rarely let him play outside by himself.  The only place I felt secure enough to do so was my parents' home in the country, where I was raised.  He was allowed to wander the creek bed, explore the hillsides, etc.  But in town, I'd go sit outside where I could keep an eye - because I was that mom who worried about kidnapping.  All it takes is a minute for some weirdo to pull up in their car, grab a kid and then they are gone before you know it.  

I think I started letting him walk to the nearby convenience store when he was 10, but definitely not before that.  So I guess I'm a mix of a somewhat over-protective mom, but I felt it was important and necessary to let go as he reached his mid to late teens.  I think it's probably a good thing I had a son and not a daughter, because I think I would have had a much harder time embracing her independence.

[melon]

We did not have a fenced yard when my boys were little,so when they went outside,I sat on the porch or the back steps.

I'm talking 3 and under.The street we lived on had some speedy drivers.I did not trust my boys,especially my oldest,so I watched them.They weren't allowed to cross the street without me....Gosh,I sound so overprotective.

When they got a little older,I'd watch from the kitchen window but they had to stay in the backyard.

Eventually,they could go to a neighbor's house,alone,at 6.

 

[Audrey2]

One other thing we need to think of when we're talking about kids walking home from school, is the way society and neighborhoods have changed since I was a kid. When I was in kindergarten in the late 70s, my mom or my neighbor's mom would walk the boy who lives across the street and me to school for afternoon kindergarten session. There were 3 other older kids in the neighborhood, a second grader and two third graders, and we would all meet in a little group after school to walk home without an adult. Most, if not all of us, had a parent in the house to meet us after school or a neighbor who was watching us after school. We had a safety patrol, a fifth or sixth grader, who would cross across the busy street, and then we would cross across two smaller streets to get home. I think, with families having fewer children and there being fewer children after school in the neighborhood as more parents work, that has also contributed to the don't let your child walk to or home from school movement.

[ladyaudley]

Reading through this thread has me all ? my mum threw us out every day from about age four for at least an hour. I cycled to primary school myself from age six every day. This was nineties southern Germany. Tracking any of my family members or them tracking me boggles the mind in so many ways.  

[feministxtian]

1 hour ago, Audrey2 said:

One other thing we need to think of when we're talking about kids walking home from school, is the way society and neighborhoods have changed since I was a kid. When I was in kindergarten in the late 70s, my mom or my neighbor's mom would walk the boy who lives across the street and me to school for afternoon kindergarten session. There were 3 other older kids in the neighborhood, a second grader and two third graders, and we would all meet in a little group after school to walk home without an adult. Most, if not all of us, had a parent in the house to meet us after school or a neighbor who was watching us after school. We had a safety patrol, a fifth or sixth grader, who would cross across the busy street, and then we would cross across two smaller streets to get home. I think, with families having fewer children and there being fewer children after school in the neighborhood as more parents work, that has also contributed to the don't let your child walk to or home from school movement.

In areas where there wasn't a problem with segregation, kids still walk/bike/scooter to school b/c they all go to neighborhood schools unless they attend a magnet or charter. In VA, walking to school wasn't an option due to distance. When I lived in AZ and now in NV, there are tons of kids walking/biking/scootering to school every day. I THINK they ride a bus to the high school though. So, different areas, different customs. My grands walk to school in CO too. 

[cascarones]

The cutoffs for my friends' kids are a mile. If you're closer than a mile or in the neighborhood the school is attached to there's no bus service. I think it might be different if there is a highway in between for elementary. NYC didn't have any I don't think. My neighbor where I'm moving to walks all the littles from the street and has a big neon vest, First night there woke up to the whistle going off to tell kids to get out of their houses. 

It's also interesting to see school orders, I've lived places where high school started first so siblings could take care of the younger ones/ sports practice and vice versa, where elementary was the one starting at 7:30. 

[Rachel333]

For a long time my brother (who is 2.5 years younger than me) and I were only allowed to ride our bikes up to a certain line on our driveway. I obeyed that rule faithfully and finally, after years of that rule, my parents decided I was old enough to ride my bike around the neighborhood by myself. I was so excited! Then once I was allowed to do that my brother said he wanted to do it too, and my parents decided they didn't feel like enforcing two different sets of rules and let him start riding around on his own too. I spent 2.5 years longer than him following those rules! I'm still not over it.  I have a lot more examples of things like that too, as do most oldest children I've known. It can be really frustrating being the oldest!

[JillyO]

We walked to school in small groups (without adults) starting on day 2 of first grade. By fourth grade, I was taking the tram to my grandparents' house by myself (30-minute ride including one transfer). By fifth grade, I was taking the tram to middle school every damn day. This was in the 90s in Germany. Nobody was driven to school. Almost everyone walked, biked, or took public transit by themselves.

Things have definitely changed. These days, over 50% of parents drive their elementary-aged kids to school (just saw an article about this in my hometown's local newspaper because it leads to huge traffic backups and they are trying to get people NOT to do that). And many of the others are accompanied on foot or bike.

Still, a 16-year old who is not allowed to take the bus by herself BLOWS. MY. MIND.

[kmachete14]

I am the oldest in my family. When I was in high school (2008-2012), my parents had a tracker on my phone. As far as I know, they didn't often look at it, but since I knew it was there I was either super sneaky or made sure I was in the vicinity of where I said I'd be.

They also had a content barrier on my computer, a breathalyzer, an 11 pm curfew, and a zero tolerance policy on drinking.  When I went to someone's house, I had to have their mom call my mom. I was only allowed to have sleepovers about once a year. 

HOWEVER, I was allowed since 2nd grade to ride my bike anywhere (literally ANYWHERE in my town) as long as I was "wearing a helmet" (I quickly took it off when I got off the block). I lived in what was ranked the #1 place to raise kids at the time and had a walkie-talkie, so playing outside and walking to school was never a concern of my mother's. 

My parents' policies made me a sneaky, lying teenager. I had a super fun time in high school and was often grounded.

My youngest brother is now 15 and has already been to parties. He still has the 11pm curfew but they don't even wait up for him!!!!! He doesn't know how lucky he is lol. 

 

[SapphireSlytherin]

My parents, like @kmachete14's, had all those stupid fucking "rules" in place for me, too.

I, too, became a sneaky, lying teenager. They taught me to be deceitful, to create and enact certain scenarios with my "cover" friends, etc., to make "acceptable" stories about our Friday and Saturday nights out cruising the strip/going to a movie. In reality, we were out at the lake, building bonfires and drinking. Kid Rock's "All Summer Long" song? Yeah. That was my teen reality. lol

THAT is why GryffindorDisappointment pretty much had free rein on her life as a teen. We had a "general" curfew, and a few rules - but I knew, based on my experience, what she'd do if we kept her so pinned down that she felt she had zero freedom (which was my teenaged reality). I probably went way too far the other direction, with minimal rules. None of us installed the Find Friends app until she was married (the first time) in her mid 20s. lol

 

[MaJessatic]

I drive Small (Year 2) to school. It's five ks away, and Small...is distractable and chatty. She won't just walk or ride to school, she'll stop to pat this dog, look at these kittens, chat to the lady doing her gardening, play peekaboo with every baby she sees, and then forget where she was going in the first place. For everyone's sanity, I drive her. By high school though, she's gonna have to sort herself out. 

Here, Kindy and Pre-Primary kids (aged 3-5) are released from the door to the adult. After the first term, an older sibling can collect them- the local high school lets out fifteen minutes earlier because so many of the kids do look after younger relatives until parents come home. Once you're out of the pre-school area and into the main block, the siren goes at three, and suddenly the doors open and the verandahs are filled with children. No school busses, you walk, wait for your lift, or wait for the bus at the bus stop down the road. 


 

[just_ordinary]

I really cannot wrap my head around tracking healthy adults. I mean you do you- especially when everyone is fine with it.

Why do you feel the need to track their whereabouts when they are not immediately answering their phone/texting back? Is what you want to say really that important? 

Are there much more incidents of murder and kidnapping in the USA compared to Europe that you feel the necessity to track your family?

Most of us have grown up with much more freedom than we are willing to grant our children. I wonder why. Statistically (at least in my country) crime rates involving children are gowing down every year, so wouldn’t the rational choice be to give them even more freedom?

I do get the appeal of easily tracking your loved ones but I think it is really unhealthy. 

It will be interesting to see how my generation is going to raise children. Many people my age are now starting to have their first child and many (at least in my social bubble) are weirded out by those phenomenons like driving children everywhere, having them in hundreds of activities but in the same side treating them like babies till they graduate from university. But it is easy to pay lip service until you are a parent and have to actually parent your child.