Dillards 66: Appropriate Spaces for Inappropriate People

[PennySycamore]

@justmissedquiver, you're my sister under the skin!  I didn't have knock-off Breyer horses, but my Barbie used to go on scientific expeditions in the car that my brother made when we played Johnny Quest.  He even made a little Bandit dog out of papier mache.  When I wasn't playing Johnny Quest, I was reading in the bright sunshine on the front steps or was tramping through the woods with my two brothers and sister.   Or blackberrying.  Or walking the the cemetery nearby. Much of this woods tramping was done barefoot.  Summers, we'd also walk to the town pool which was about a mile away.  There were no sidewalks.

[ati_escapee]

5 hours ago, louisa05 said:

Sadly, I don't think that not taking kids outside is an odd thing anymore. The local school district here teaches kids in preK-5 that they should never be outside without an adult present, never cross a street without an adult, and walks them 50 feet from the front door of the school to the buses--in small groups no less--FOR SAFETY. I have had the teacher duty there of walking kids who walk home for the first FOUR BLOCKS from the school where parents or siblings of at least high school age are supposed to meet them before you can allow them to proceed. I have had the teacher duty of literally walking a kid home who lived ONE BLOCK over from the school. 

Mind you, I live in a midwestern semi-rural town with a population of 9000 and no child abductions or other crimes against children within the memory of neighbors who have lived here for 40+ years. 

Very few kids play outside here. In our previous neighborhood, moms would sit outside while 9 and 10 year olds rode bikes very slowly on their driveways a couple of times a week. Our new next door neighbors are kind of old school and their two kids (8 and 12) are outside on their own all the time. But they are usually stuck only playing with each other as the rest of the neighborhood kids are rarely allowed. 

I don't know where Jill lives, but I live just a few miles from the Duggar house. Kids in my neighborhood play outside all the time. By themselves. Everyone also has a privacy fence and kids of all ages play in the backyards by themselves. Older kids (some not older) play in the front. It's a pretty safe area but I was pretty surprised at all the kids playing outside. In a good way! My husband drives past the Duggar house daily (for work) and he says he hardly ever sees kids outside. Maybe they just don't play outside? I don't know. 

[Audrey2]

As much as I hate to admit this, I can understand why the Duggars don't let their kids play outside. If I remember right they had fans knocking at someone's door, and I would feel less comfortable of my kids were out playing if I were a public enough person to have fans. I'm so thankful that that is not me and that outside is a wonderful place to be!

[justoneoftwo]

Everyone saying their kids play outside alone, how old are they? Israel in only 3, right? I think I would be surprised if he was playing alone much. 

[feministxtian]

1 hour ago, justmissedquiver said:

yes!  I spent every single summer day of my childhood in our back yard.  I had knock-off breyer horses who went on great adventures.  If I wasn't on adventures with them, then I was reading a book - outside. we had outdoor blankets just for this purpose. Mom put out pb&js (every.single.day.) with milk on the picnic table at noon. 

I spent my summers roaming the neighborhood, playing in the woods, swimming at the pool. Like, I was NOT inside unless I was forced. My kids got shoved out the door after breakfast. I'd bellow for them to come eat lunch then out they went again until dinner. Then it was baths, a little TV time and bed. No way were they staying inside. Just nope. Not happening. 

[SassyPants]

14 minutes ago, VelociRapture said:

Because it’s Jill - she’s awkward, she is trying to stay connected with their fans somehow, and she sucks at social media.

We’ve seen plenty of proof that the boys play outside. I think this was another attempt to make a ”relatable” post that fell a bit flat because Jill simply isn’t that great at being a mommy blogger. 

But you know what is odd, in the earlier years of the Duggar's show, Jill was the spokesperson of the kids, and Jill did not seem as socially awkward  as she now appears. It's as if she, as she's aged, has majority regressed in her abilities and confidence levels ,and I find that both sad and troublesome. She really has had a hard time (and yes, her life as been rather helter skelter since she married) adapting to life outside of Duggarville. Her confidence seems really sapped.

[Rachel333]

I just read it and actually didn't get the impression that it's unusual for them to play outside either, just that it was an awkward way to find an excuse to form a whole post around those pictures.

[choralcrusader8613]

8 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

But you know what is odd, in the earlier years of the Duggar's show, Jill was the spokesperson of the kids, and Jill did not seem as socially awkward  as she now appears. It's as if she, as she's aged, has majority regressed in her abilities and confidence levels ,and I find that both sad and troublesome. She really has had a hard time (and yes, her life as been rather helter skelter since she married) adapting to life outside of Duggarville. Her confidence seems really sapped.

Possibly because in the hierarchy of the Duggar family, she knew her place. She was one of the big buddies and rule-makers. But once she formed her own family, with a person who didn't grow up in the same ways she did and has different life experiences, it's not as clear-cut as the rules of her childhood were.

I will say that Jill did somewhat have a bit of an awkwardness to her for me, but that's probably just part of her personality imo.

[justmissedquiver]

29 minutes ago, PennySycamore said:

@justmissedquiver, you're my sister under the skin!  I didn't have knock-off Breyer horses, but my Barbie used to go on scientific expeditions in the car that my brother made when we played Johnny Quest.  He even made a little Bandit dog out of papier mache.  When I wasn't playing Johnny Quest, I was reading in the bright sunshine on the front steps or was tramping through the woods with my two brothers and sister.   Or blackberrying.  Or walking the the cemetery nearby. Much of this woods tramping was done barefoot.  Summers, we'd also walk to the town pool which was about a mile away.  There were no sidewalks.

Omg, @PennySycamore my bff and I totally walked the cemetery haha.  There was a duck pond and we'd beg for stale bread to feed them (don't do this we know better now )  We'd also rollerskate (metal wheels) down the biggest hill in town and crash into the embankment to stop ourselves.  Soooooo dangerous, omg how were we allowed to do that. hahaha

[PreciousPantsofDoom]

MlnopThe not playing outside thing really bothers me.  I teach kids (elementary school age) all the time who have clearly been discouraged from playing outside.  Some of them is that thing of parents feeling freaked about letting them play unsupervised.  I can understand those fears better than the ones who plainly just don't want their kids to get dirty.  So inconvenient!  The result, of course, is that you get kids who are out of shape, have poor motor skills (other than game control finger skills), have poor social skills etc etc. 

I also wonder how people think their kids are going to learn how to handle life in general, when they have never had the chance.  They have always been either safe indoors, or had an adult nearby to fix any problems. 

I was talking to my 16 year old godddaughter this summer and realized just how different things are now for kids.  At 16 I was allowed to take the bus downtown (a 30 minute trip), either by myself to meet a friend, or with my younger sister.  We would go to a movie or go shopping in the mall (it was the 80's after all.)  We were expected to be home by dinner time, and trusted to find a payphone and call if we missed the bus and we're going to be late.  My godddaughter has yet to go anywhere on her own. She has not taken a bus by herself, has never been shopping without an adult, nothing. And this is someone who is of legal driving age.  Now, some of it is because her family are US expats living in China, so life has been a little different over the last 2 years for them, but even when they are back in North America for the summer months, she is accompanied everywhere.  In 2 years she will have to leave her family for dorm life in University here and I'm a little worried about how sheltered she is right now. 

We also took our other godddaughter (different family) out for her birthday last week.  She just turned 13 and was beyond excited to go for a meal with us on her own.  Afterwards, her mother told us that she said that she felt like she was having an adult conversation with us, I think because it wss just us two and her. She's a nice girl, but also pretty sheltered.  She too has never taken a bus on her own, or been anywhere unsupervised.  Every bike ride she has ever taken has been with her parents or another adult.  At dinner that night she griped a bit about the fact that her mother won't let her walk home from school on her own.  It's a 15 minute walk. She has a cell phone. She thinks her mother might let her do it if she had one of those tracker apps, but her mother doesn't trust the apps either.  We suggested seeing if there was another student she could walk home with. Might reassure her mother, but who knows.  

I do worry about how helpless some of these kids are going to be when they finally do venture out on their own. I predict a rocky start and a steep learning curve.

[patsymae]

38 minutes ago, VelociRapture said:

Because it’s Jill - she’s awkward, she is trying to stay connected with their fans somehow, and she sucks at social media.

We’ve seen plenty of proof that the boys play outside. I think this was another attempt to make a ”relatable” post that fell a bit flat because Jill simply isn’t that great at being a mommy blogger. 

You're probably right, she's just trying to be relatable. What a putz.

 

[patsymae]

11 minutes ago, PreciousPantsofDoom said:

MlnopThe not playing outside thing really bothers me.  I teach kids (elementary school age) all the time who have clearly been discouraged from playing outside.  Some of them is that thing of parents feeling freaked about letting them play unsupervised.  I can understand those fears better than the ones who plainly just don't want their kids to get dirty.  So inconvenient!  The result, of course, is that you get kids who are out of shape, have poor motor skills (other than game control finger skills), have poor social skills etc etc. 

I also wonder how people think their kids are going to learn how to handle life in general, when they have never had the chance.  They have always been either safe indoors, or had an adult nearby to fix any problems. 

I was talking to my 16 year old godddaughter this summer and realized just how different things are now for kids.  At 16 I was allowed to take the bus downtown (a 30 minute trip), either by myself to meet a friend, or with my younger sister.  We would go to a movie or go shopping in the mall (it was the 80's after all.)  We were expected to be home by dinner time, and trusted to find a payphone and call if we missed the bus and we're going to be late.  My godddaughter has yet to go anywhere on her own. She has not taken a bus by herself, has never been shopping without an adult, nothing. And this is someone who is of legal driving age.  Now, some of it is because her family are US expats living in China, so life has been a little different over the last 2 years for them, but even when they are back in North America for the summer months, she is accompanied everywhere.  In 2 years she will have to leave her family for dorm life in University here and I'm a little worried about how sheltered she is right now. 

We also took our other godddaughter (different family) out for her birthday last week.  She just turned 13 and was beyond excited to go for a meal with us on her own.  Afterwards, her mother told us that she said that she felt like she was having an adult conversation with us, I think because it wss just us two and her. She's a nice girl, but also pretty sheltered.  She too has never taken a bus on her own, or been anywhere unsupervised.  Every bike ride she has ever taken has been with her parents or another adult.  At dinner that night she griped a bit about the fact that her mother won't let her walk home from school on her own.  It's a 15 minute walk. She has a cell phone. She thinks her mother might let her do it if she had one of those tracker apps, but her mother doesn't trust the apps either.  We suggested seeing if there was another student she could walk home with. Might reassure her mother, but who knows.  

I do worry about how helpless some of these kids are going to be when they finally do venture out on their own. I predict a rocky start and a steep learning curve.

You reminded me of my son telling his teenage son no, he wasn't going to give him a ride to the mall. You can take the bus. WHAT? The bus. you walk to the corner and wait, and the bus stops, and you give them a dollar and they take you to the mall.
Kid couldn't believe what he was hearing.

 

[louisa05]

11 minutes ago, PreciousPantsofDoom said:

MlnopThe not playing outside thing really bothers me.  I teach kids (elementary school age) all the time who have clearly been discouraged from playing outside.  Some of them is that thing of parents feeling freaked about letting them play unsupervised.  I can understand those fears better than the ones who plainly just don't want their kids to get dirty.  So inconvenient!  The result, of course, is that you get kids who are out of shape, have poor motor skills (other than game control finger skills), have poor social skills etc etc. 

I also wonder how people think their kids are going to learn how to handle life in general, when they have never had the chance.  They have always been either safe indoors, or had an adult nearby to fix any problems. 

I was talking to my 16 year old godddaughter this summer and realized just how different things are now for kids.  At 16 I was allowed to take the bus downtown (a 30 minute trip), either by myself to meet a friend, or with my younger sister.  We would go to a movie or go shopping in the mall (it was the 80's after all.)  We were expected to be home by dinner time, and trusted to find a payphone and call if we missed the bus and we're going to be late.  My godddaughter has yet to go anywhere on her own. She has not taken a bus by herself, has never been shopping without an adult, nothing. And this is someone who is of legal driving age.  Now, some of it is because her family are US expats living in China, so life has been a little different over the last 2 years for them, but even when they are back in North America for the summer months, she is accompanied everywhere.  In 2 years she will have to leave her family for dorm life in University here and I'm a little worried about how sheltered she is right now. 

We also took our other godddaughter (different family) out for her birthday last week.  She just turned 13 and was beyond excited to go for a meal with us on her own.  Afterwards, her mother told us that she said that she felt like she was having an adult conversation with us, I think because it wss just us two and her. She's a nice girl, but also pretty sheltered.  She too has never taken a bus on her own, or been anywhere unsupervised.  Every bike ride she has ever taken has been with her parents or another adult.  At dinner that night she griped a bit about the fact that her mother won't let her walk home from school on her own.  It's a 15 minute walk. She has a cell phone. She thinks her mother might let her do it if she had one of those tracker apps, but her mother doesn't trust the apps either.  We suggested seeing if there was another student she could walk home with. Might reassure her mother, but who knows.  

I do worry about how helpless some of these kids are going to be when they finally do venture out on their own. I predict a rocky start and a steep learning curve.

My cousin's wife has the tracker app on her kids's phones. 

Her kids are 26 (27 in two months) and 23. I worry about the tracker apps. When do you take it off? What is the motivation for it? This woman has a lot of excuses for tracking the whereabouts of her fully grown adult children. And when she really wants them to know she is watching, she posts about it on social media and tags them in the posts, too. I feel like too many parents are not figuring out how to let go. 

As for your goddaughters, a 16 year old should know how to navigate the world on her own at least some of the time. And a 13 year old should at least be able to get home from school on her own (barring inclement weather--as a midwesterner, I do still think making kids walk when it's ten below zero is unnecessary!). 

 

[PennySycamore]

@PreciousPantsofDoom,  I posted a few days ago on the Lori A thread an observation I'd made after looking at my junior high yearbooks   ("68 and '69) recently.  Very few of the kids were really fat and none of the kids seemed to be anorexic.  One difference is that the kids then got  more exercise then.  Some kids played team sports the same as now, but kids were more likely to be playing outside or riding their bikes and whatnot.

Btw. I've still got my old bike, a Peugeot Mixte, that I got for high school graduation in '73.  I need to restore it and start riding it again.

[VelociRapture]

26 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

But you know what is odd, in the earlier years of the Duggar's show, Jill was the spokesperson of the kids, and Jill did not seem as socially awkward  as she now appears. It's as if she, as she's aged, has majority regressed in her abilities and confidence levels ,and I find that both sad and troublesome. She really has had a hard time (and yes, her life as been rather helter skelter since she married) adapting to life outside of Duggarville. Her confidence seems really sapped.

I think others have mentioned this previously, but I do think Jill did better when she was on someone else’s “script” as opposed to her own. Some of what was shown on tv was reality, but some of it was scripted or planned out by the filming company as well. I think Jill did fine parroting back whatever they asked for and she’s struggling now because she has no “script” to follow. All the content she’s generating is stuff she has to think of on her own and her parents did their best to squash her critical thinking skills. 

41 minutes ago, justoneoftwo said:

Everyone saying their kids play outside alone, how old are they? Israel in only 3, right? I think I would be surprised if he was playing alone much. 

I’m curious about this as well. My daughter is almost 22 months and is never unsupervised outside because she’s simply too young. There’s also the fact that we live on a busy main road and we have no fenced areas because we live in a condo complex. Izzy isn’t much older than my daughter is and I could understand if his parents are hesitant to allow him outside - even in a fenced area - alone due to his age. 

(Or maybe they’re hesitant because they’re public figures and have concerns about random fans stopping by? They did have a random person show up on their doorstep when Jill was heavily pregnant with Izzy. They were still living in the big mansion at that point, but still. That would likely be a concern for me if I were in their shoes.)

I am really curious about what age posters here feel is a good age for kids to be unsupervised outside. It’s a conversation I haven’t had to have with my husband yet, but I have a feeling we may have different answers and will have to compromise.  

[ViolaSebastian]

I really think the neighborhood and location makes a difference in deciding if kiddos can play outside. In the idyllic town I grew up in of 20,000 people, I was allowed to play outside at the age of six. (There was one murder in the 12ish years I lived there). Where I'm living right now, though, it a major metropolitan area which barely missed being on the top ten list for the number of murders, I'd probably require a kid to be in his or her teens. 

ETA: For my mother, the gender of the child also played a part. My brother was younger when he was first allowed outside alone, and throughout his tweens and teens was allowed to stay out significantly later than I was. 

[justmissedquiver]

7 minutes ago, VelociRapture said:

I am really curious about what age posters here feel is a good age for kids to be unsupervised outside. It’s a conversation I haven’t had to have with my husband yet, but I have a feeling we may have different answers and will have to compromise.

I agree that Izzy may be too young to be in the yard on his own.  My kids would still occasionally put things in their mouth at age 3.   I think it depends are the area where you live and  how far, what circumstances etc..  I live in an area with abnormally high incidences of human trafficking.  We teach the kids the buddy system and what to do if you are approached.  That's really normal stuff, but especially important here.  Many parents here simply won't allow the kids out alone at any age.  Women buddy up to go grocery shopping since there have been numerous well documented attempts to snatch women into vans. 

[karen77]

We live on a quiet cul-de-sac with other neighbors with kids. we moved in when DD was 5.5, and DS was 20 months. DD was allowed to go out with us checking every 15-20 minutes on her, DS, not so much. But as both kids got older, we let them out side more without supervision. when DD was 7 or so, she was out without us checking much, DD, we still checked OFTEN until about 4.5, now, usually don't (he turns 6 on Sunday) anymore, BUT his sister is out there most of the time with him, or one of the other neighborhood kids (most of which are the same age or older). So, we feel pretty safe about it.

[SassyPants]

29 minutes ago, louisa05 said:

My cousin's wife has the tracker app on her kids's phones. 

Her kids are 26 (27 in two months) and 23. I worry about the tracker apps. When do you take it off? What is the motivation for it? This woman has a lot of excuses for tracking the whereabouts of her fully grown adult children. And when she really wants them to know she is watching, she posts about it on social media and tags them in the posts, too. I feel like too many parents are not figuring out how to let go. 

As for your goddaughters, a 16 year old should know how to navigate the world on her own at least some of the time. And a 13 year old should at least be able to get home from school on her own (barring inclement weather--as a midwesterner, I do still think making kids walk when it's ten below zero is unnecessary!). 

 

Your cousin's wife is tracking neurotypical adults? OM word, that should be illegal.

[Blessings of the Corn]

10 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

Your cousin's wife is tracking neurotypical adults? OM word, that should be illegal.

Right?! If I was her children I'd be enraged. No way, no how.

[Audrey2]

I remember playing in the unfenced but smaller, harder to get to backyard by myself when I was 3 1/2. I knew I wasn't allowed in the "big yard" or in front alone at that age. Mom frequently looked out of the window to check on me. That's where my sandbox and swing were. I remember being lost in my imagination while in the sandbox and drinking from a plastic container there. My imagination stopped when I got a mouthful of sand. I never made that mistake again!

For me, the age depends on the child, neighborhood, if the yard is fenced and type of fence, and if there are convenient windows from which to observe the child.

[louisa05]

16 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

Your cousin's wife is tracking neurotypical adults? OM word, that should be illegal.

Yes, she is. And I suspect she is not the only one. I saw a discussion on a public social media page recently about how useful it is to keep a tracking app on your kid's phone when they are at college. And a HS friend was asking people which tracking app they use because she has decided she needs to start tracking her 18 year old senior "so it's there when he moves out for college next fall". 

Like I said, this is a worrying trend as I don't think parents are thinking through the ramifications. And, yes, perhaps there needs to be a legal remedy that allows kids to end this themselves when they reach the age of majority. 

Of course, the tracking app is only the beginning of these kids's problems. They have barely been allowed any independence at all. They don't even decide when, where or how to get their hair cut. 

[TheOneAndOnly]

If someone nosy was tracking my phone I'd be tempted to let a shady friend borrow it for a while. That, or leave it home while I went out out to do shady things. 

[Kelsey]

12 minutes ago, louisa05 said:

Yes, she is. And I suspect she is not the only one. I saw a discussion on a public social media page recently about how useful it is to keep a tracking app on your kid's phone when they are at college. And a HS friend was asking people which tracking app they use because she has decided she needs to start tracking her 18 year old senior "so it's there when he moves out for college next fall". 

Like I said, this is a worrying trend as I don't think parents are thinking through the ramifications. And, yes, perhaps there needs to be a legal remedy that allows kids to end this themselves when they reach the age of majority. 

Of course, the tracking app is only the beginning of these kids's problems. They have barely been allowed any independence at all. They don't even decide when, where or how to get their hair cut. 

There is a legal remedy already. Get your own phone, pay the bill, and never let mom (or dad or whoever can't mtb) to touch it.

[justoneoftwo]

3 minutes ago, Kelsey said:

There is a legal remedy already. Get your own phone, pay the bill, and never let mom (or dad or whoever can't mtb) to touch it.

To be fair if your parents were like this probably have no idea how to do that