Dillards 66: Appropriate Spaces for Inappropriate People

[VelociRapture]

8 hours ago, Vivi_music said:

I can't answer question number two. But for your first question, I think she was good with her siblings because that was what her parents asked of her? I don't know. I am thinking aloud here.

Young Jill must have realized at one point, even unconsciously that she needed to be a good sister-mom to please her parents. By being the best buddy leader, the one with the most effective buddy team, her parents probably rewarded her, praised her, thanked her for it. Of course, like any child (and even teen), it makes you feel loved, appreciated, useful. I bet she thrived to be the best sister-mom with her buddies, because again, it was something to add to her badge as the golden child. And by saying that, I don't mean that the connection and bond she formed with her team is artificial or done only to be a pleaser. For the one thing, I often found Jill seemed the most genuinely happy when we used to see her with her buddies.

At least that is how I see it. I know if I take myself for example: most of my academic success in elementary school and high school was because it was something that was valued by my parents and I wanted desperately to please them. (Mind you, I liked school too. I wasn't forced, but that is not the point). The role of sister-mom was certainly something JB and Michelle valued and Jill wanted to be recognized.

As for her own kids, I don't think Jill is UNABLE to have a connection with her own children. Like you said, we only see a glimpse. I don't know why it doesn't come off on her blog or on her instagram posts though.

 

I think it’s also important to note that Jill wasn’t on her own while raising her buddies. She had three other sisters old enough to help out as needed and she’d be able to help them out in return. Since becoming a parent Jill hasn’t seemed to really have that though. She started her parenting journey thousands of miles away in an unfamiliar country and we have no way to know how much help she had from Derick or their families while they were there. Plenty of parents make situations similar to that work, but it can be a huge struggle for others to adjust. I’m mostly glad they aren’t overseas anymore because it means the innocent people of El Salvador aren’t being harassed by them right now, but I’m also glad because Jill seems calmer now that she’s in Arkansas again. Regardless of what I think of the Dills, Izzy and Sam deserve for their mom to be healthy and happy.

And all of that’s not even considering the fact that she had difficult labors ending in emergency c-sections, a two week NICU stay for Sam, and the possibility* that she’s still struggling with all of that. I didn’t experience complications with my daughter’s birth (other then her being premature and needing a week long NICU stay) and I’m still struggling a bit emotionally and mentally from what happened. So it wouldn’t surprise me if she’s also been affected by those experiences somehow. 

All that said, I think the lack of connection you mentioned is probably due more to her just being a wildly inconsistent social media poster combined with her husband constantly emphasizing how they need time away from the kids. I’m on a break from Instagram right now (and am currently deleting Facebook) so I’m unable to cite examples, but I do think there have been posts showing a genuine connection and happiness between Jill and the boys. 

*Possibility is bolded for emphasis because we have no way of knowing this for sure. 

ETA: Also important to note is that she welcomed Izzy a little over a month prior to the news of Josh’s molestations scandal breaking nationally. So on top of having a difficult delivery, recovery, and adjusting to motherhood she also had to deal with everyone knowing she was sexually abused by her older brother. 

So yeah... I think all the Duggar daughter moms have had difficulties and adjustments related to parenthood, but I also think that Jill definitely had a lot more working against her then the others did. 

[Audrey2]

10 hours ago, Beermeet said:

 

9 hours ago, HarleyQuinn said:

1) Her kids probably don't worship her like her buddy team did. Jill needs to be constantly told she's the BEST. Her kids don't do that.

 

 

Hmmmm... This sounds like another Jill we know (Jill Rodrigues, for those who haven't wandered into that swamp.) Is there just something about the name Jill?

(Sorry, @Beermeet, I grabbed the wrong quote.)

[HarleyQuinn]

6 hours ago, WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo? said:

From the pictures she linked to, it looks like she used the lower sodium versions of the 3 cans of soup,

  Reveal hidden contents

but she still describes it as salty. I hate to think how salty it would be with the higher sodium versions! It also looks like she had to substitute for the Rotel. (That probably didn't make a difference.)

In any case, she's much braver than I am! Thanks for the link!

This is funny because apparently (I never click the Dillard's blog) A commenter made it and said their sauce looked different and Jill replied "oh, we use low sodium soups!" Like that would actually have a difference. They look exactly the same.  Someone grabbed a screenshot of that on reddit too.

[Four is Enough]

Some thoughts about Jill:

She did seem to thrive as a sister mom, and I thought she'd be a natural mother. That doesn't seem to be the case. She seems almost frightened and intimidated by her children. Why? Because they're male? Because DeWreck doesn't value them in the same way? Because DeWreck insists on some arbitrary standard of behavior, grooming, and cleanliness? I swear the Dillard children are (to me) always with the tucked in shirts, hair combed, scripted behavior. To contrast that with Spurge's unruly curls, bare feet, and sometimes disheveled clothing... Izzy and Sam look like they're on their way to sunday school, and Spurge and Henry look like normal kids.

Jill does seem to need a great deal of external validation. Has DeWreck ever praised her the way she praises him? I think her love language is words of affirmation, and she doesn't seem to be getting many.

I don't like cooking, and i wouldn't use my cooking to demonstrate to anyone "how" to cook... although I have thrown together a few pretty good meals and nobody's dead, I am decidedly a mediocre cook and I"m good with that... so I"m not going to    put it out there for all to see. That one reddit comment, "Do you have a cardiologist on speed dial?" just about sums Jill's cooking up for me.

The big question in Jill's behavior is "how does DeWreck treat her in private?" I think not the way she hoped and dreamed. He comes off as very self centered and selfish. She'd be better off with someone who adores her.. the way JD adores Abbie.

[HerNameIsBuffy]

11 minutes ago, Four is Enough said:

She did seem to thrive as a sister mom, and I thought she'd be a natural mother. That doesn't seem to be the case. She seems almost frightened and intimidated by her children. Why?

I don't know her so I'm not speaking about Jill specifically, but a lot of people find responsibility very stressful. 

Yes, she had far too much responsibility as a sister-mom and I'm not minimizing how hard it can be to care for small kids...but the final responsibility was with her folks.  She followed directions, didn't make decisions.

Having the buck stop with you is a very different scenario.  

[Four is Enough]

5 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

IHaving the buck stop with you is a very different scenario.  

True, and if she's not getting very much in the way of support from her husband, she flounders... 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

2 minutes ago, Four is Enough said:

True, and if she's not getting very much in the way of support from her husband, she flounders... 

Even if she is.  She's not just the primary caregiver, she's the parent and regardless of how they split responsibility between they both have full accountability for how they raise their boys.

She could have the most supportive husband in the world and still flounder at any adult responsibilities.  She's learning adulthood OTJ and some people are better at that than others.

[feministxtian]

I remember floundering when I suddenly had to be an adult. It was hard (still is). I wasn't really allowed to make any decisions for myself, it all had to be filtered through the parents. Suddenly having to stand on my own 2 feet and have the responsibility for another human being (and the parents interfered like crazy) drove me down a dark road. As such, I still suck at adulting. Its really only been in the past couple of years that I've gotten pretty good at it (sad state of things when you're over 50). I rock at budgeting and paying bills, I do a fair to middling job at other things, but there are times when I'm completely overwhelmed at things and well, they just don't get done. 

For example - last night's dinner was through GrubHub. But, seeing as how it's just the 2 of us, it can be done. 

[SassyPants]

38 minutes ago, Four is Enough said:

True, and if she's not getting very much in the way of support from her husband, she flounders... 

Also, IMHO, the Duggars were a bit lax with basic safety and hygiene rules when they were raising their children. I'm sure that the #s dictated some of the "short cuts", but others bordered on unhealthy/dangerous. I wonder if Dereck and Jill have disagreed about some of Jill's methods?  Having the headship correcting Jill likely could be a major blow to her confidence.

[HerNameIsBuffy]

34 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

 Having the headship correcting Jill likely could be a major blow to her confidence.

Good point.  Also, if corrected on things she learned from JB it could cause quite a bit of cognitive dissonance.  Derek has to be right, because y-chromosome haver and all, but if him being right makes Daddy wrong...

All kinds of critical thinking might come knocking at a door she doesn't want to answer.

As a daddy's girl myself I can't even imagine how hard that would be for someone like Jill.

Another thing, and I am just spitballing but being a "mom" came with a lot of kudos and accolades for Michelle in her world...she was awe inspiring.  Real motherhood of a couple of kids won't keep the spreads in People coming forever.

It's a very important job, but it's a thankless one at times as well.  

[QuiverDance]

4 hours ago, formergothardite said:

The Bates were the same way. They had land, but grifted instead of attempting to have a garden. During parts of my childhood we were pretty poor(in my parents defense they stopped having kids during these times), but we always had a huge garden. During the spring/summer/fall we had fresh veggies and during the winter we had the vegies we canned or froze. 

It is just amazing that these mega-families who have the land won't garden at all to help with their food budget and make it easier for their kids to have fruits and veggies. 

In an attempt to be fair, I'd posit that gardening is a good deal more expensive than buying produce, and much more expensive with the initial investment.  Just to start my small backyard garden this spring was a pretty large investment.  For a larger garden, a family would have to invest in a tiller (at a minimum), or a tractor for a larger garden, hoses and irrigation, a water source and water to keep the crops alive, fertilizer, seeds, organic pesticides/repellants, hoes, rakes, mulch, garden soil, compost/compost bins, bird and insect barriers... It's not cheap. It's not just a matter of digging a hole in the ground and sticking a seed in it.   Even container gardening is costly.  

[SassyPants]

1 minute ago, QuiverDance said:

In an attempt to be fair, I'd posit that gardening is a good deal more expensive than buying produce, and much more expensive with the initial investment.  Just to start my small backyard garden this spring was a pretty large investment.  For a larger garden, a family would have to invest in a tiller (at a minimum), or a tractor for a larger garden, hoses and irrigation, a water source and water to keep the crops alive, fertilizer, seeds, organic pesticides/repellants, hoes, rakes, mulch, garden soil, compost/compost bins, bird and insect barriers... It's not cheap. It's not just a matter of digging a hole in the ground and sticking a seed in it.   Even container gardening is costly.  

Long term thinking, which I think would be important for a couple leaving family size up to God thard, a garden would be cheaper. These folks have been feeding children for 30 years and counting. Of course that also factors in feeding kids fruits, veggies, seeds and nuts.

Remember when Michelle said that oranges (or was it mandarins?) were a treat?

[HerNameIsBuffy]

4 minutes ago, QuiverDance said:

In an attempt to be fair, I'd posit that gardening is a good deal more expensive than buying produce, and much more expensive with the initial investment.  Just to start my small backyard garden this spring was a pretty large investment.  For a larger garden, a family would have to invest in a tiller (at a minimum), or a tractor for a larger garden, hoses and irrigation, a water source and water to keep the crops alive, fertilizer, seeds, organic pesticides/repellants, hoes, rakes, mulch, garden soil, compost/compost bins, bird and insect barriers... It's not cheap. It's not just a matter of digging a hole in the ground and sticking a seed in it.   Even container gardening is costly.  

Even for basic gardening, not a full scale mini-farm?

My mom loved to garden and in our suburban backyard my mom grew green beans, tomatoes, and raspberries, and we have a cherry tree that she made tons of preserves and pies from...I was always being sent out to pick stuff, I hated it.

I have neighbors who are always looking for people to give zuchinni and tomatoes to because their little back yard gardens produce more than they can eat.

And for a small garden I can't imagine these people don't have a garden hose.

Idk as it's not an interest of mine, but I know a lot of people who have small backyard gardens that don't invest that kind of money into them.  It seems the megafamilies could at least supplement their food even if not replace store bought entirely.

[TheOneAndOnly]

Most of the time, gardening is as expensive as you want to make it. Buying expensive tools vs bare minimum tools. Buying plants vs buying seeds. Buying national brand soil amendments vs just using what's already on your property. Miracle Gro or no Miracle Gro.  Not forgetting that some tool purchases aren't an annual expense. I've gardened for years and have never owned a tiller. Tomatoes, peppers, squash, okra, collards and herbs tend to not need a lot of expensive care.

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

2 hours ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

I don't know her so I'm not speaking about Jill specifically, but a lot of people find responsibility very stressful. 

Yes, she had far too much responsibility as a sister-mom and I'm not minimizing how hard it can be to care for small kids...but the final responsibility was with her folks.  She followed directions, didn't make decisions.

Having the buck stop with you is a very different scenario.  

Oh yeah, I do NOT handle stress well at all, I have anxiety issues that makes too much stress send me over the edge. It is why I don't work stressful jobs, and 1 of the reasons didn't work when my kids were young. I'm lucky in that I don't live in community of people who find mental illness to be a lack of prayer and not something real that needs to be dealt with.  If Jill has anxiety or depression issues, she's not getting any consequential help, she's just being told to pray and be happy, that won't help, it will only make things worse.

[SilverBeach]

29 minutes ago, QuiverDance said:

In an attempt to be fair, I'd posit that gardening is a good deal more expensive than buying produce, and much more expensive with the initial investment.  Just to start my small backyard garden this spring was a pretty large investment.  For a larger garden, a family would have to invest in a tiller (at a minimum), or a tractor for a larger garden, hoses and irrigation, a water source and water to keep the crops alive, fertilizer, seeds, organic pesticides/repellants, hoes, rakes, mulch, garden soil, compost/compost bins, bird and insect barriers... It's not cheap. It's not just a matter of digging a hole in the ground and sticking a seed in it.   Even container gardening is costly.  

Sounds like you are talking about farming, not gardening. My small gardens were not expensive at all. The Bates and Duggars didn't even try with a starter garden. Jana has a lovely garden now and I doubt that she has expended large amounts of cash. The Bates and Duggars were just lazy.

[church_of_dog]

Basic garden hand tools are easy to find at yard sales and thrift stores.  I agree with those who say gardening is only as expensive as you let it be.  Most of the investment is in labor, which they had available in abundance, one would think.

[QuiverDance]

I am absolutely not talking about farming.  I'm talking about backyard gardening.  Gardens are not free.  In fact, if you google it, there are plenty of sources who agree that while over time, home vegetable gardening can save money, initial start up costs can well exceed the value of crop yield.  As for Jana's garden, the setup definitely required an investment of cash.  She has raised beds, a potting shed, even decor.  None of that materialized without money, even if the family supplied all or most of the labor.  

Just to start my own garden I incurred costs for building a raised bed (around 75 dollars), soil for the raised bed (50 dollars for adequate soil to fill the bed), plants (around 70 dollars).  I could have saved money by starting plants from seed, but even if I had, factoring in the cost of fertilizing and watering,  I didn't break even.  I did it because it was fun.  

I'm not saying that gardening is not a pursuit these families should undertake.  My point is just that gardening (especially if they don't know what they are doing) would not necessarily save them money in the short term.  

[formergothardite]

44 minutes ago, QuiverDance said:

For a larger garden, a family would have to invest in a tiller (at a minimum), or a tractor for a larger garden, hoses and irrigation, a water source and water to keep the crops alive, fertilizer, seeds, organic pesticides/repellants, hoes, rakes, mulch, garden soil, compost/compost bins, bird and insect barriers... It's not cheap. It's not just a matter of digging a hole in the ground and sticking a seed in it.   Even container gardening is costly.  

Jill Rod. managed to put together a pretty big garden before they started being a "ministry". If Jill Rodrigues can figure it out, the Duggars and Bates could. Gil Bates grifted  tree truck equipment and Jim Bob seemed to get the things he wanted, they could have had a garden to provide fresh fruits and veggies if they had wanted to. They would rather have fed their kids processed crap and grift food. 

 

[QuiverDance]

Just now, formergothardite said:

Jill Rod. managed to put together a pretty big garden before they started being a "ministry". If Jill Rodrigues can figure it out, the Duggars and Bates could. Gil Bates grifted  tree truck equipment and Jim Bob seemed to get the things he wanted, they could have had a garden to provide fresh fruits and veggies if they had wanted to. They would rather have fed their kids processed crap and grift food. 

 

Look, I'm not making a value judgment about it.  I LOVE GARDENING.  I grew up riding a tractor with my grandfather through rows and rows of beautiful vegetables, my dad still does it, and I love growing my own food now on a smaller scale.  I'm just saying there is a lot that goes into it, crop success is not guaranteed, and it doesn't necessarily provide economic savings, though it certainly CAN if everything goes well.  

 

 

 

[SilverBeach]

13 minutes ago, QuiverDance said:

Gardens are not free. 

Nobody ever said that. Just that they are not as cost-prohibitive as you are presenting. If you can't afford a big garden, do a small one. It's OK just not to have interest in gardening, but with the Duggars and Bates having so many kids and money issues at one time, it just seems disingenuous that they didn't even try.

[HerNameIsBuffy]

41 minutes ago, allthegoodnamesrgone said:

If Jill has anxiety or depression issues, she's not getting any consequential help, she's just being told to pray and be happy, that won't help, it will only make things worse.

I wasn't even alluding to that.  Just that adult responsibility isn't something everyone wants, and some people really struggle when they weren't prepared for it before it was thrust upon them.  

JB and J'Chelle did her no favors in this regard.

[melon]

33 minutes ago, SilverBeach said:

Sounds like you are talking about farming, not gardening. My small gardens were not expensive at all. The Bates and Duggars didn't even try with a starter garden. Jana has a lovely garden now and I doubt that she has expended large amounts of cash. The Bates and Duggars were just lazy.

My grandmother loved to garden.She had pecan trees,fig trees,a vegetable garden and flower beds.

When she became unable to do anymore gardening,she still had what she called "volunteers" from her garden.She gave me butter beans and broccoli,once,volunteers from her garden.

[Maggie Mae]

They live in an area with adequate sun, heat, and soil. The fact that the Duggars aren't/didn't do anything with the #blessings they were given in regards to land irritates me to no end. 
 

My grandparents lived much further north, and they have had a garden since before I was born that yields tons of vegetables. There's no composter or raised beds. I've looked through older photos of the land and it's been pretty much the same since 1904. Grandparents bought the place at some point, and acquired things like tractors and built barns and planted trees and cut down other trees, and now my mom and my uncle live there with my 99 year old grandfather, and they get so much produce that they grow themselves. What they can't grow (or didn't grow) they buy in cash from roadside stands. During the summer it costs less than canned goods. And grandmother, before she died, would can what they didn't eat. 

No one is saying they needed to invest heavily in agriculture. However, it seems ridiculous that they are such poor planners, poor cooks, and lazy. They are NOT an example of anything other than greed and laziness. Furthermore, while I'm not a theologian or religious in any meaningful way, I just don't get their philosophy - doesn't the bible tell people to work hard? To tend their lands and use their extra to feed the poor? I don't remember reading "have more kids than you can afford and get a reality TV show to buy you a big house" 

[AtlanticTug]

Being a sister mom is more work than any child should be forced to do but it’s nowhere near being a Mom alone at home with a couple of young kids (and a thoroughly useless husband). Just a few reasons:

1. Her sister daughters/sons were much more spaced out in terms of age than her sons are. By the time she had 3, the oldest 2 were largely doing things for themselves, spending at least part of the day sitting at SOTDRT, playing with siblings etc and not needing her attention.

2. She didn’t have to be raising any kids while pregnant or recovering from surgery.

3. She didn’t have to worry about finances.

4. She didn’t have to do all the other housework as well (cooking, cleaning, laundry, dishes) since those tasks were split into jurisdictions.

5. She always had back up - 2 parents, Grandma Mary, her other sisters or older brothers etc. If she was working on her jurisdiction, she could unleash her sister kids outside with their siblings or send them out on errands with another adult.

Now Jill spends most of her time alone with 2 young boys, she has a husband who doesn’t give a shit about her interests or well being, she is off the TV show and I bet that she enjoyed being on.