Dillards 66: Appropriate Spaces for Inappropriate People

[MaJessatic]

3 minutes ago, LurkerOverThePond said:

Out of curiosity: where do you live? Snake season to my North European ears sounds like a living nightmare!

Western Australia. We're coming out of winter atm, so it's time for Small's yearly reminder about snake and spider safety. 

[Four is Enough]

50 minutes ago, MaJessatic said:

Shit yeah. I punt Small out into our yard every day- more so since it's school holidays. "Out! Out until you've got no more crazies in you!"

My dad used to say, "Go outside and get the stink blowed (blown) off you!"

 

[LurkerOverThePond]

27 minutes ago, MaJessatic said:

Western Australia. We're coming out of winter atm, so it's time for Small's yearly reminder about snake and spider safety. 

I was guessing Australia Years ago I read Bill Bryson's "Down Under" and got fixated on Australia's various poisonous or dangerous creatures, especially snakes and irukandji jellyfish. We only have one species of poisonous snakes where I live (common European adder) so the thought of living with so many deathly creatures around you makes my hair rise. You probably get used to it, because you Australians seem to be very much alive and kicking

[Carm_88]

10 minutes ago, Four is Enough said:

My dad used to say, "Go outside and get the stink blowed (blown) off you!"

 

My Dad always said to me "Go outside and get the smell of the house off ya!"

[Alisamer]

2 hours ago, louisa05 said:

Sadly, I don't think that not taking kids outside is an odd thing anymore. The local school district here teaches kids in preK-5 that they should never be outside without an adult present, never cross a street without an adult, and walks them 50 feet from the front door of the school to the buses--in small groups no less--FOR SAFETY. I have had the teacher duty there of walking kids who walk home for the first FOUR BLOCKS from the school where parents or siblings of at least high school age are supposed to meet them before you can allow them to proceed. I have had the teacher duty of literally walking a kid home who lived ONE BLOCK over from the school. 

Wow, I'm all for safety but that seems like a bit much. There's got to be a balance between the old-school "I don't want to see any of you until suppertime, out you go" and this. There's so much fun to be had with just hanging out in the outdoors. My sisters and were outside for hours every day, even in winter - we had a 40-acre dairy farm, and wandered in the woods and fields as much as we wanted. The rules were "stay away from the gully, snakes hide in the old tires dumped there; don't climb in the hayloft; and you better come in when we call." As long as the dog could find us, we were good. We technically weren't even required to stay on our own property, but we did, mostly. Largely because a lot of it was fenced pasture so we could tell where the edges were, and because we had plenty of bike riding room close to the barn. We spent all summer absolutely filthy, sometimes we'd get hosed down before being allowed back in the house.

I know now that it was a big privilege to have that much space and outdoors to run around in, but I really feel like most kids over kindergarten age can do just fine in their own yard without a parent or adult right there. I'd have no issues letting an elementary schooler walk a block home from school alone!

[Cheetah]

True snake story, but 2nd hand (and about 25 years old) so details might be fudged: a family at a church we attended about 25 years ago had a pet snake... I'm not a snake expert so I can't tell you what sort except a typical pet type (USA), safe for kids, that grows to be fairly large.  Pet snake got out of its enclosure and was lost in the house for months and family assumed it had either died under the house or gone to live in the yard or something like that.

Our church did a dinner group mixer thing where you'd get paired with several other families and take turns hosting each other. Family of snake was hosting and another family was there who had a 2 year old.  Everyone was having a nice time socializing in the dining room and the 2 year old went into the kitchen for something or other and came back and mentioned that there was a dragon in the kitchen.  Kid didn't seem scared or alarmed, just matter-of-fact that there was a dragon in the kitchen.  What a cute child and what a cute imagination this child has, was the consensus.  Until one of the hosts went back into the kitchen a few minutes later and realized that the pet snake had made a reappearance.  

[feministxtian]

7 hours ago, LurkerOverThePond said:

Based on pictures, they have a back yard with soft grass and high enough fence - perfect place to let the kids run free _every_single_day_, not just when a friend suggests it. I'm not a mother, but if I were, I'd dump my kids off to the yard to play if I wanted to get things done inside.

"Go find something creative to do as long as it does not involve bothering me". "Go outside and play". "are you bleeding? No? then go play". "no you may not beat your brother/sister up inside, take it outside". "go play in the traffic (joke)". "no blood on the carpet, take it outside". 

Yeah...my then little jerks were tossed outside for their own protection...

[SassyPants]

Moral to the snake story: Snakes are not indoor, domestic pets. Neither are chimps, mountain cats...

[libgirl2]

1 hour ago, LurkerOverThePond said:

I was guessing Australia Years ago I read Bill Bryson's "Down Under" and got fixated on Australia's various poisonous or dangerous creatures, especially snakes and irukandji jellyfish. We only have one species of poisonous snakes where I live (common European adder) so the thought of living with so many deathly creatures around you makes my hair rise. You probably get used to it, because you Australians seem to be very much alive and kicking

My SIL used to live in Australia and DH tells me stories about going there for family vacations and the various "deadly creatures" surrounding them. 

[HarryPotterFan]

@louisa05 That reminds me, a couple years ago someone called CPS because two children were walking a couple blocks home. Clearly only an extremely negligent parent would allow their kids to walk home without an adult in a safe neighborhood...

And on the opposite end of the spectrum, my dad spent his childhood running around catching snakes and scorpions.

[HarleyQuinn]

3 hours ago, louisa05 said:

Sadly, I don't think that not taking kids outside is an odd thing anymore. The local school district here teaches kids in preK-5 that they should never be outside without an adult present, never cross a street without an adult, and walks them 50 feet from the front door of the school to the buses--in small groups no less--FOR SAFETY. I have had the teacher duty there of walking kids who walk home for the first FOUR BLOCKS from the school where parents or siblings of at least high school age are supposed to meet them before you can allow them to proceed. I have had the teacher duty of literally walking a kid home who lived ONE BLOCK over from the school. 

Mind you, I live in a midwestern semi-rural town with a population of 9000 and no child abductions or other crimes against children within the memory of neighbors who have lived here for 40+ years. 

Very few kids play outside here. In our previous neighborhood, moms would sit outside while 9 and 10 year olds rode bikes very slowly on their driveways a couple of times a week. Our new next door neighbors are kind of old school and their two kids (8 and 12) are outside on their own all the time. But they are usually stuck only playing with each other as the rest of the neighborhood kids are rarely allowed. 

Yikes. I feel like your town is the exception to the norm though. I see kids playing outside all the time. My own are outside constantly when the weather permits (and even when it doesn't and they drag my freezing ass out there with them.  )

[justmissedquiver]

52 minutes ago, feministxtian said:

"Go find something creative to do as long as it does not involve bothering me". "Go outside and play". "are you bleeding? No? then go play". "no you may not beat your brother/sister up inside, take it outside". "go play in the traffic (joke)". "no blood on the carpet, take it outside". 

Yeah...my then little jerks were tossed outside for their own protection...

yes!  I spent every single summer day of my childhood in our back yard.  I had knock-off breyer horses who went on great adventures.  If I wasn't on adventures with them, then I was reading a book - outside. we had outdoor blankets just for this purpose. Mom put out pb&js (every.single.day.) with milk on the picnic table at noon. 

[louisa05]

13 minutes ago, HarleyQuinn said:

Yikes. I feel like your town is the exception to the norm though. I see kids playing outside all the time. My own are outside constantly when the weather permits (and even when it doesn't and they drag my freezing ass out there with them.  )

I think kids on the upper economic strata are playing outside less and less. A UK study in 2016 found that kids play outside about half the amount of time that their parents' generation did. Another survey in 2016 covering ten countries showed that kids spend less than 30 minutes outside per day. 

So I don't know that the problem is isolated to my one little town. Kids are increasingly in organized activities instead. Homework loads are requiring more time for younger and younger kids. And, as @HarryPotterFan noted, there is an increasing stigma, if not policing, of children below the teen years being out alone in public for any reason. 

[justmissedquiver]

19 minutes ago, louisa05 said:

I think kids on the upper economic strata are playing outside less and less. A UK study in 2016 found that kids play outside about half the amount of time that their parents' generation did. Another survey in 2016 covering ten countries showed that kids spend less than 30 minutes outside per day. 

So I don't know that the problem is isolated to my one little town. Kids are increasingly in organized activities instead. Homework loads are requiring more time for younger and younger kids. And, as @HarryPotterFan noted, there is an increasing stigma, if not policing, of children below the teen years being out alone in public for any reason. 

That is definitely the norm in my semi-rural, suburb.  Summertime for elementary and middle school is filled with interest group camps (think sports, coding, photography, band, vbs) and after that internships and jr and sr counselor opportunities. Scouts is also popular here as an organized way to get out in nature.

edited to add: that we're a solidly middle class neighborhood, but I would not put us in the upper economic strata.  

 

[louisa05]

8 minutes ago, justmissedquiver said:

That is definitely the norm in my semi-rural, suburb.  Summertime for elementary and middle school is filled with interest group camps (think sports, coding, photography, band, vbs) and after that internships and jr and sr counselor opportunities. Scouts is also popular here as an organized way to get out in nature.

Yep. I think my little town is a bit outside the norm for the over-protective dismissal insanity at the schools, but that is spreading, too. Interestingly enough, so far, I have heard of it happening in other towns as well that also have a sizable population on the upper end of the economic strata. That indicates it is probably driven by over-protective wealthier parents. The district I work in in another town that is more working class doesn't do any of that. PreK and K kids are walked to the buses or their parents come get them within sight of their teachers, but older kids take off on their own for where they need to go, be it a daycare van or worker (center across street sends someone to gather them--while here a center across from one building sends a van to drive them), the bus or a parent's car or to walk. 

[apandaaries]

I may have missed this discussion, but did anyone else watch the uber awkward video of Jill hosting a birthday lunch for MEchelle? Jill of course described it as weirdly as possible: "I (Jill) hosted my mom for a birthday lunch at our house this past week and a few of my sisters were also able to come last minute. My mom is so special to me and I admire her so much!! I try to take advantage of any opportunities where I can steal her away…especially when we have a good excuse to celebrate." 

If it was planned, why would sisters join last minute? Wouldn't it have been on their schedules? Duggars confuse me. 

It's worth watching to see how stiff Jana and Jessa are, and to watch Josie struggle to hold Sam. Her grip is so precarious even MEchelle notices and tries to help at the very end of the video. As usual, Izzy tries and fails to get his mother's attention.

Weirdly, Jill reminds me a lot of the tuned out Michelle from before, not paying attention to her kids, while Michelle is more attentive to Jill's kids in this video.  I guess she really is her mother's daughter.

[MargaretElliott]

This conversation makes me really thankful for one of my jobs (I generally juggle 2-3 jobs at a time, because I guess I don't need free time). I won't get into specifics, but it's an after-school program and summer camp program with its own teachers and activities. And what we do is get kids to use their imaginations, socialize with their peers, and play outside. Yes, parents have to pay for it, and yes, it's kind of expensive, but it gets these kids away from their screens and outside, running around and making up stories and laughing and climbing trees and jumping in puddles and having the time of their goddam lives, all the way from elementary school through middle and high school. Like, most high school students are way too cool to go to summer camp, but about half our campers are high school aged. I see them helping the middle school kids and playing games and mentoring them and it just makes my heart swell to see. Playing outside is so much more than just play, it's a way to learn and interact with the world, and helps develop these kids into responsible, mature, amazing individuals.

Damn, I love what I do. Play outside, everyone. It's still fun as an adult.

[SamiKatz]

I grew up in an area in Canada with a lot of snakes (including poisonous ones) and grew up with a healthy respect for them.  I was going to go on a hike with a boyfriend at one time and went on about snakes so much, he said to me "Are you from *area I grew up in*".  I was astonished and said yes and asked him how he knew and he said it was the snake thing, as apparently I just lived in a very snake friendly area and the whole province didn't have as many/such a variety.   I think they're beautiful creatures but I wouldn't own one.  

[VelociRapture]

Eh. I’m pretty sure Jill used the whole friend thing just as a way to begin the post. It was a bit awkward, but far better than their usual attempts. We’ve seen plenty of evidence that the Dill kids play outside on a regular basis. 

[patsymae]

4 minutes ago, VelociRapture said:

Eh. I’m pretty sure Jill used the whole friend thing just as a way to begin the post. It was a bit awkward, but far better than their usual attempts. We’ve seen plenty of evidence that the Dill kids play outside on a regular basis. 

Well, I thought she was just trying to segue in too, but really, why coo over what a great idea it is for kids to play with a ball, and report that they did so and enjoyed it and got tired? WTF? And then I actually read the comments and her responses, and managed to have Jill gobsmack me, which I wouldn't have thought was possible? What great, creative ideas they are to give kids stickers, crayons....huh? What did she do with her sister kids all day long?

[BachelorToTheRapture]

When I worked in an after school program we often ignored the "rules" and had the kids spend most of their time outside playing. We'd have an organized game for their "gym" time, a craft or science activity (outside) for the educational stuff, and about 30 minutes total inside for snacks/sign in/reading and homework time. The parents seemed to love it, we enjoyed being outside, and the kids would always ask to take things outside. A lot of the afternoons usually ended up being free play time outside, and the kids would often make up games and ask the staff to join in. They would also usually choose outside time over the computer lab, eventually we stopped giving them the choice and would occasionally let them have computer time when the weather was bad and we wanted to stay in. All the supervisors knew what we were doing and loved that we moved all our lesson plans outdoors. I miss that job.

[justoneoftwo]

There is evidence that the lack if outside time is contributing to more kids needing glasses, which I found interesting.

One if the few things I love about utah laws is the free range parent law. It makes me more sure I won't lose my kid if I let him have some freedom to play.

[Scrabblemaster]

33 minutes ago, MargaretElliott said:

Damn, I love what I do. Play outside, everyone. It's still fun as an adult.

It's perfect that you love what you do. And guess who jumped in a puddle during her sunday walk in the forrest...yes me. I had he feeling that I had to jump in it... I needed a hot bath afterwards because I totally underrated the amount of water. 

[VelociRapture]

13 minutes ago, patsymae said:

Well, I thought she was just trying to segue in too, but really, why coo over what a great idea it is for kids to play with a ball, and report that they did so and enjoyed it and got tired? WTF? And then I actually read the comments and her responses, and managed to have Jill gobsmack me, which I wouldn't have thought was possible? What great, creative ideas they are to give kids stickers, crayons....huh? What did she do with her sister kids all day long?

Because it’s Jill - she’s awkward, she is trying to stay connected with their fans somehow, and she sucks at social media.

We’ve seen plenty of proof that the boys play outside. I think this was another attempt to make a ”relatable” post that fell a bit flat because Jill simply isn’t that great at being a mommy blogger. 

[patsymae]

I'm a dinosaur Grandma who then nannied my twin granddaughters for their first six years. The helicopter mothers are not doing their kids a favor. And having to entertain parents you have nothing in common with because their kids are playing in our (fenced in, trampoline with net, visible from kitchen, dining room and deck) backyard was, shall we say, tedious.