The Smyth Family Homesteaders

[OGEmoji]

2 hours ago, formergothardite said:

He is claiming that there are no regulations where they moved. That and the no regulations for them homeschooling is why they chose that location. I can see how over the top regulations can make life difficult, especially for people building non-conventional houses, but no regulations at all seems a bit much. 

So they didn't become debt free, they just accumulated debt and then washed their hands of it? Is this guy a Trump fan, because that is a very Trump thing to do. I understand that sometimes people have to file bankruptcy, but don't act like that is the same as becoming debt free. 

Oh wow. She doesn't have a phone and she is off grid by herself with children during the day?! I get the controlling vibe from him too. 

Yes, they bought a house and tried fix it up to flip it, then the market tanked.  They mention a few other debts. I actually found their bankrupcty records when I googled to try and find out more about Esther's alopecia. It was something like $127k they walked away from. They also got their inheritance early from his mom, and a sibling donated their inheritance as well, so they used that money to buy the land and fix the house.

 

They also mention being upset that they couldn't bankrupt their student loans.

 

I think the wife has a lot of knowledge to share, and the children look happy and healthy. From their flighty history of frequent moves and ever changing plans, I am willing to be their homesteading experience is short lived.

[OGEmoji]

On 10/1/2018 at 4:59 PM, pook said:

  O.T. I am amazed at what she is able to feed those kids because mine would run away screaming.

I suspect they don't have any other choice on what to eat. When kids get hungry enough and there is only one food presented, they will eat it. Let them starve long enough an they'll even eat poisoned turtles and rancid pancakes.

[llucie]

Interesting find. Definitely fundie, they have a video talking about how they meet and it was at a religious college while studying the bible (they didnt say which one) and courted for 9 months whithout even hugging. That convined with the headcovering and the frumpers makes them more fundie than the Bates for example.

Its not clear if they are quiverful though, since they had only 6 children in 18 years, but you never know, they may just not be very fertile.

About the alopecia, seems genetic since they have two children suffering from it, althought the boy seems to have gotten a lot better in the last year, he used to be completely bald like his sister. She mentions its an autoinmune dissease, and the father also seems to have some kind of skin condition that i dont know if its related. They are very into natural medicine (she mentions essential oils, vitamin suplmements, organic food...). She has a video explaining they moved out of Alaska because there wasnt much sun and the vitamin D deficience was worsening her kids allopecia. To be fair to her there is not much that modern medicine can do about allopecia anyways, so she is not hurting anyone with that, and when one of the kids broke his femur they took him to a real doctor.

[formergothardite]

4 hours ago, OGEmoji said:

They also mention being upset that they couldn't bankrupt their student loans.

And he is the one bitching about the snowflakes needing a safe place.  

I don't buy that he is a super sweet person in real life. They wife, yes, but him, no. 

4 hours ago, OGEmoji said:

They also got their inheritance early from his mom, and a sibling donated their inheritance as well, so they used that money to buy the land and fix the house.

Which house did they get an inheritance from his mom for? In one video he says with the Alaska house his mother bought it and they paid her back after they fixed it up and sold it. For his talk of saddling your own bronco, it sounds like he comes from a privileged background where he hasn't exactly been doing this on his own. 

[Somer]

To be fair, I don’t see any evidence to suggest the children are underfed or left hungry. 

[llucie]

I dont know if he is nice or not in private, you never know, but in public he seems to be. 

In the last vlog they received the visit of another homesteading family in their property and they even give a shout out about their channel, the other family doesnt seems religious, or at least not as religious (mother pant wearing, mixed race couple) and has a lot less subscribers that them so i thought it was really nice of them to do that.

[formergothardite]

22 minutes ago, llucie said:

I dont know if he is nice or not in private, you never know, but in public he seems to be

Yes but this family shared their homesteading values. How nice would he be to those "snowflakes" he seems to look down on?  Or people who realize not everyone has a mother to help buy houses and that there is a need for a government safety net? 

I don't think he comes off as nice in his public videos. Smug and privileged yes. The wife I think seems nice and I could probably chat with her about canning and stuff, but him? I don't think he would be particularly nice to chat with. 

33 minutes ago, Somer said:

To be fair, I don’t see any evidence to suggest the children are underfed or left hungry. 

Our standards for fundie parents are so low that being able to remember their kids names is something to be applauded, but yes, they look clean and well cared for. The mother seems to like her children and be attempting to be a good, loving mom. It doesn't look like they make the little girls be skirts only, so that is good. Hopefully they are okay with their daughter pursuing careers and getting an education. No babies appear to be in cages. 

[AliceInFundyland]

Not commenting on anything else but - if you do legitimately have to go through the psychological stress and yeah, shame, and a lot of other emotions that surround bankruptcy....it is sucky that you cannot actually erase all your debt and the student loan thing is still there. 

[closetcagebaby]

I forget which video - it may have been the day in the life of a homestead mom one - but Carrie talks about why she wears a head covering and dresses “modestly and feminine” and I was pretty shocked at how non judgmental she sounded about people who might not share her views on dress. 

[formergothardite]

I have to say I love their vintage ice chest and I wish they could fix it and keep it. It is beautiful. 

I do feel a bit sorry for the 15 year old son crammed into a tiny space with all his younger siblings. 

I like that their kids get to have toys. This isn't a JRod situation where the house doesn't look like children live there. 

I have no issue with people going through bankruptcy. Life happens. The whole "we got debt free" thing seems a little on the disingenuous side when in reality they made some unwise life choices and then were able to walk away from most of their debt.

When they got married she was a certified teacher and the plan was for her to work and support them while he finished his education. They also lived with family for two years. She got pregnant and stopped working so that didn't happen. They traveled, went out to eat and to see movies a lot, all which they put on credit cards. They moved to Arizona to live with her sister for a bit.  They then bought a house in Arizona, had another child, and his job couldn't really pay for their lifestyle, but it seems like her going back to work was not even something they thought of. Their house was damaged by a storm and while they were fixing the damage they decided to take on more debt by  remodeling and putting in an irrigation system. They were already in way over their head when the housing market burst. So they filed for bankruptcy and immediately moved to Alaska because he had connections, but it ended up those fell through so he got another job as a store manager. His mom bought a house for them to fix up and flip. Because his mother had bought them a house they were able to pay off their student loans. They then decided to live off grid and bought a travel trailer and moved it to a friend's property to live on while waiting for the house in Alaska to sell. His mom and brother gave him around $70,000 to get started living off grid. They found an inexpensive spot of land and started building a house.  He also isn't working at this point, but then they ran through all the money and he was forced to start working again and now they build the house slowly so they can stay debt free. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

She seems really sweet and I would get along with her in real life. Dad is reminding me of Pa Ingalls ?

[TuringMachine]

I get really bothered when people insist that someone is a good person because they met them in person and they were so nice. Yeah, most people are nice in person. I'm sure JB, Michelle, Gil, and Kelly are all perfectly pleasant when you meet them, but they're all shit people and terrible parents. The reality is that abusive people don't walk around with signs around their necks reading "I'm a shitting person". No, they like to cultivate character witnesses. They want as many people as possible to come out and say "he/she would never do such a thing".  An ex boyfriend of mine was verbally and emotionally abusive, but I know plenty of people that would insist up and down that he was the sweetest guy you'll ever meet. You don't really know someone if you've never been alone with them, and you've never seen them angry.

Sorry, I get emotional every time I see someone try to make that defense. I don't know if the dad here is a nice person or not, but the fact that he's nice and polite in person means nothing. Calling people snowflakes, on the other hand, is generally not a good sign.

[JermajestyDuggar]

3 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

She seems really sweet and I would get along with her in real life. Dad is reminding me of Pa Ingalls ?

And by this I mean he up and moves his family here and there after each failed venture. Hopefully this venture sticks and the kids have plenty of stability and are happy on their farm. 

[EowynW]

On 10/2/2018 at 12:17 PM, Four is Enough said:

@EowynW, can you elaborate on that? My husband and I watch and marvel at the tiny house shows. (I'd kill him if I had to share 200 sf with him snowed in, let's just say that)

Off the top of my head I remember a few people having trouble in their counties because apparently you couldn't get a permit to build a house less than 1000 square feet. 

 

 

[Lisafer]

2 minutes ago, EowynW said:

Off the top of my head I remember a few people having trouble in their counties because apparently you couldn't get a permit to build a house less than 1000 square feet. 

 

 

In the Missouri county I live in, a bit south of the Smyth family, some cities have their own building codes, but unincorporated county areas only require a $15 building permit. So if my husband and I wanted to build an addition to our house, we'd just go down to the courthouse, pay our 15 bucks, and then do whatever we wanted. Not saying that's necessarily a good thing, but I prefer it to the much harsher building codes in a nearby town, which extend as far as installing all electric outlets upside down (ground plug on top), and requiring a permit and inspection to cut down trees on your own property.

I think the area around Ava would be much the same as far as lax permits--it's a bit blighted in my opinion, with high poverty and a lot of rural areas. I doubt that this family stands out very much; although they may be a bit more radical on religion, politics, and homesteading, they're not completely out of place in the area they live in. 

I admit that it is nice for my own stress levels to be able to homeschool with very little regulation, but then again, I stress myself out trying to make sure that my children are well-rounded! There are some requirements for record-keeping, which I follow of course. Unfortunately, with this family, it sounds like it's more about control of the children. I'd like to see Missouri at the least have some kind of requirement to teach evolutionary theory and sex ed when homeschooling!

[church_of_dog]

Can't speak to homeschooling regulations but building permit rules are county by county, if not city-specific.

In most if not all California counties you need a building permit for anything over 120 square feet, whether it's to live in or not (shed, etc).

You're also supposed to get an Occupancy Permit in order to live in a newly built building, and that of course requires all the building/electrical/plumbing/etc permits that are relevant.

That said, many counties don't have the manpower to prioritize chasing down people who don't get permits.

Personally I favor replacing the building rules and permit process with some kind of recognized "seal of approval" so that a buyer can be assured work was done to standard but so that someone building only for themselves is not mandated to go through the permit process if they don't want to.

One can also avoid the permit process by putting the building on skids or on a trailer base, making it movable and therefore considered a temporary structure.

 

Edited October 3, 2018 by church_of_dog

[JemimaPuddle-Duck]

@TuringMachine I understand where you’re coming from. I didn’t get really emotional about it and insist he’s all wonderful. I haven’t just met them, I spent a couple of years in fellowship with them both in church and outside of church. We helped them prepare for their move and helped them financially for some time afterward. Because of interest and time constraints, I have only watched a couple of videos when they first started so I haven’t heard his use of snowflake, but that is disappointing, if not surprising considering how often I hear that sort of thing. 

 

I can say that yo the best of my knowledge, though you may not love his personality, he is pretty chill and not controlling. He was always gentle and very engaged with the children. 

 

Carrie was the one who started learning about all things natural and dreamed of homesteading, while Kip eventually caught that bug from her and shared the dream. He didn’t drag them all over the place against her will. 

 

I don't wish to comment much on their on their financial situation since that is an area where I have some fairly strong disagreements with them. I will only say that while he doesn’t seem super interested in a regular “job”, he works very hard at the homestead (they both do) and is teaching the children the value of work. 

Edited October 3, 2018 by JemimaPuddle-Duck
Added more thoughts.

[Meggo]

I just watched a little (didn't see him at all) and thought they seemed like a pretty normal family.
I'm totally fine with them homeschooling - which I wish they did with some level of regulation - and if she WAS a teacher? So much the better.

I couldn't live in house that small with all those people - but I also watch those tiny house people and don't know how they can manage with just two of them in SUCH a tiny space. But that's me - I neeeeeed my space. And I'm assuming people used to live like that too - and kids found places that were "theirs". Like a corner of the barn, even - a secret tree... something.

She's a little more woo woo (with the herbs and the root beer float drink) than I'd be comfortable with - but if they're taking kids to the doctor when they break something - I'm down with that. And she seemed non judgey about pants.

I'd like to have a conversation with her - because I would love to know all that she knows about homesteading (not that I want to do it - but I think SOMEONE should be prepared in case it all goes to hell in a handbasket - not that I'm a prepper. I just think it would be a handy skill - like sewing. How to forage and for what)

[meowfundiecatz]

I've been watching them for a while. There is a (somewhat) large group of people similar to them trekking out into the world of "homesteading" and the reasons behind it are definitely within the realms of fundamentalism. It's just they broadcast it on YouTube (in almost all cases to grow an audience and income stream).

I haven't watched enough (or paid enough attention) to figure if the Smyth's are Hebrew Roots or not (like the family from Shining Stars that are discussed elsewhere on here).

Other notable families with YT channels are Sounds like Reign (do they have a thread?) and An American Homestead (who believe that YT sensors their conservative beliefs and are Hebrew Roots). Also AAH has another channel, New2Torah. There are a ton of others but theses are two examples of younger families with little children, who don't "work" traditional jobs, and who are attempting to "homestead" (although SLR are on a music tour right now).

[Lisafer]

12 minutes ago, meowfundiecatz said:

I've been watching them for a while. There is a (somewhat) large group of people similar to them trekking out into the world of "homesteading" and the reasons behind it are definitely within the realms of fundamentalism. It's just they broadcast it on YouTube (in almost all cases to grow an audience and income stream).

 

I had to laugh when Kip Smyth talked about how much he hated consumerism...on his monetized Youtube video. 

[fundiefollower]

I recently found this family too.  I've commented on some of their vlogs and Kip has written back.  They seem kind and loving and like they have good intentions.  But there is just so much wrong there.  They should not have started if they didn't have enough money to finish the cabin (no money for wallboards?), kids on beds that will be outgrown very soon, no mattresses, bedding and clothing SO FILTHY.  I can't get over the filth.  I know living in the country/farming you will have dirtier clothes and kids, but even when they get up and get dressed in new clothes they are filthy.  Carrie has to wash clothes in a super tiny washing machine that she has to manually load with water, or the tub, or have the 'blessing' of a neighbor who does their laundry regularly.  With six kids you can't get by that way.  Or at least wash kids hands/feet/faces before bed to avoid dirty beds.  Schooling looks minimal.  She may be a trained teacher but it seems to happen between chores.  They don't like paper so they do "air writing".  How does that teach a kid to really write?  How about a dry erase board or small chalk board?  They never thought about pipes freezing in the winter?  Their garden efforts seem extensive but production is often minimal.  You can't make everything out of free wood pallets.  Why don't they get chicken wire to contain the chickens?  They are constantly building new chicken containments but I never see any chicken wire, just big wire that they can clearly get through.  I could go on. One last thing, Kip always pointing his finger at the camera annoys the crap out of me.  I can picture him doing that in anger even more aggressively. 

[formergothardite]

There was another off grid homeschooling family I once found on YouTube and they got little chalk boards for all their kids. If the Symth family has resorted to air writing then I'm not inclined to think that they are going to get the best education. You can't learn to write that way. There is a reason Laura and mary had to get slate boards to write on before they started school. 

[EowynW]

Pipes freeze even in regular houses. My parent's very nice house on a slab has still frozen.

[zcccrv]

1 hour ago, fundiefollower said:

I recently found this family too.  I've commented on some of their vlogs and Kip has written back.  They seem kind and loving and like they have good intentions.  But there is just so much wrong there.  They should not have started if they didn't have enough money to finish the cabin (no money for wallboards?), kids on beds that will be outgrown very soon, no mattresses, bedding and clothing SO FILTHY.  I can't get over the filth.  I know living in the country/farming you will have dirtier clothes and kids, but even when they get up and get dressed in new clothes they are filthy.  Carrie has to wash clothes in a super tiny washing machine that she has to manually load with water, or the tub, or have the 'blessing' of a neighbor who does their laundry regularly.  With six kids you can't get by that way.  Or at least wash kids hands/feet/faces before bed to avoid dirty beds.  Schooling looks minimal.  She may be a trained teacher but it seems to happen between chores.  They don't like paper so they do "air writing".  How does that teach a kid to really write?  How about a dry erase board or small chalk board?  They never thought about pipes freezing in the winter?  Their garden efforts seem extensive but production is often minimal.  You can't make everything out of free wood pallets.  Why don't they get chicken wire to contain the chickens?  They are constantly building new chicken containments but I never see any chicken wire, just big wire that they can clearly get through.  I could go on. One last thing, Kip always pointing his finger at the camera annoys the crap out of me.  I can picture him doing that in anger even more aggressively. 

I tend to agree with your assessment. The fact that they seem to be very loving and gentle people doesn't make the problems go away. He talks like someone who did it all by himself when, in reality, they had plenty of financial help (both inheritance and friend/followers gifting them stuff). Consumerism is not what Kip thinks it is and there is an air of them thinking that they are, due to their homesteading lifestyle, better than people who happen to receive help from the government. Instead of the way they receive help, which is apparently so much better.

And with all that assistance- still their lifestyle seems to be one accident/special need/natural disaster away from completely falling apart. They give me an uneasy feeling.

[formergothardite]

4 minutes ago, zcccrv said:

He talks like someone who did it all by himself when, in reality, they had plenty of financial help (both inheritance and friend/followers gifting them stuff). Consumerism is not what Kip thinks it is and there is an air of them thinking that they are, due to their homesteading lifestyle, better than people who happen to receive help from the government.

I think this @JemimaPuddle-Duck, is why I get a not so nice vibe from him. His comments about the snowflakes that need a safe space along with him painting a picture of self reliance while refusing to acknowledge that he has lived a life of privilege where people have financed his lifestyles and gotten him where he was. 

He may seem really nice in real life, but this attitude of looking down on others while not acknowledging how he has been handed so much doesn't show a person who has a truly kind personality. He reeks of smug privilege.