Gwen Shamblin 3: Predicted 9/11 After CNN

[SilverBeach]

1 hour ago, afather said:

if these people would post inaccurate facts and make up stories about something as tragic and personal as this, then consider the possibility that other things they so confidently talk about here may also not be fully true

Sincere condolences to you, losing a child is a huge tragedy regardless of the circumstances. I am curious about how you discovered this site. I appreciate that you would want to correct misinformation about your son's death, even though I doubt that anyone is wholesale making up stories. But when you veered into RF cult apologetics, sorry, you lost me. Gwen Shamblin is a classic cult leader. FJ is not the only source of information about her or her cult, including information about the horrific Smith child abuse murder.

You may want to consider asking the site owner Curious or one of the other administrators to verify your identity, just to add to your credibility. Another FJ member has vouched for you, which is good.

[sajetime]

11 minutes ago, SilverBeach said:

Many sincere condolences on the death of your son. I am curious about how you discovered this site. I appreciate that you would want to correct misinformation regarding the circumstances of your son's death. But when you veered into RF cult apologetics, sorry, you lost me. Gwen Shamblin is a classic cult leader. FJ is not the only source of information about her or her cult.

You may want to consider asking the site owner Curious or one of the other administrators to verify your identity, just to add to your credibility.

SilverBeach, I’ve been a longtime observer/borderline participant of this group. For what it’s worth, I’m firmly convinced this is Eldon, given other testimony/correspondence , etc. I’ve seen.

[SilverBeach]

8 minutes ago, sajetime said:

SilverBeach, I’ve been a longtime  observer/borderline participant of this group. For what it’s worth, I’m firmly convinced this is Eldon, given other testimony/correspondence , etc. I’ve seen.

Thanks. We have had folks come here claiming to be who they were not, causing much trouble.

[onemama]

@afather, I'm very sorry for your loss. 

[Briefly]

Please accept my condolences in the loss of your son, it's obvious that he did try to help himself.  Addiction is wicked and doesn't care who it hurts.

[SJWaterford]

17 hours ago, sajetime said:

Eldon, I met you once and you were kind to me — a class act.

I want to express my true and sincere condolences for the loss of your son. I know too well how addiction destroys; I’ve lost loved ones myself. My fiancé is six years sober, via AA, and I don’t take a day of that for granted.

I’m glad to learn Jacob did try AA, rehab, etc. I’ve personally heard Gwen speak out against those options; Remnant outwardly disregards any kind of help/support besides it’s own message. And I feel that is a very dangerous stance. 

Much respect.

 

 

From one grieving parent to another, my heart breaks for Jacob.  But also consider the pain I feel because what Gwen teaches has destroyed my family as well. Because of your church I understand exactly how it feels to lose a child. Consider that. I didn't think you were allowed to read stuff on the internet. It's interesting that I can spout the truth all day to my child, but what you say is golden because I don't believe like you. You think that you need to get the truth out about your son for whose sake? The RF members that don't follow instruction and decide to find out what they can on their own? Because they have a feeling deep down in their gut that things may not be on the up and up in the RF church on Franklin Rd? Are there rumors swirling around you need to squash? You really should take your own advice to us considering the following quote. 

"And to anyone who is following and reading messages on this thread, I ask you to consider one thing -  if these people would post inaccurate facts and make up stories about something as tragic and personal as this, then consider the possibility that other things they so confidently talk about here may also not be fully true"-Eldon Gormsen

 

[WorseThan1Thinks]

Gordon @afather ,

I offer my sincere, honest, heart felt condolences on the loss of your child. 

I became convinced the hardest thing one could face in life would be the death of a child.  Again, I am so sorry for your, your wife's and the rest of your family's loss.

I became convinced of that when I lost my family to RF.  I remember all the tears, all the incredible emotional angst and times of literal weeping from my spouse choosing RF over our marriage, losing time with my kids, and seeing my innocent children lose their family as a direct result of my spouse being 'all in' for Remnant Fellowship and Gwen Shamblin.  I said multiple times to various friends, family and counselors  "The only thing worse than this would be the death of a child."  That was the only thing that could trump my pain.  

Quote

... and I pray that your family never has to go through something like this.

Oh but I have, thanks to Remnant.  And so many others have too.  No, not necessarily the death of a child.  But a pain that is just a notch below the death of a child.  Certainly a pain that is 'something like this'.  And if that pain across the many whose lives we're so badly affected by RF could somehow be added up, it dwarfs the pain you had to endure.  And you helped cause it.

Quote

But then he had a moment where he gave in again to the pull, and the combination of what he was sold and the lack of tolerance he had 

It sounds like he was using some illegal drug.  If so, I bet you hate illegal drugs (I won't go into how Gwen teaches her flock for a disdain of many legal, prescribed drugs to help certain mental, ADHD, etc issues).  You probably also hate the act of those who manufacture and sell these illegal drugs.

There is a very real analogy here.  You, Gordon, are a part of something that has caused similar pain and destruction that you 'pray that your family never has to go though something like this'.  Gordon, in one sense, you are a very nice man.  And I understand your role as a leader of RF is different than say Tedd Anger's or David Martin's.  But you are still one of the top leaders.  And I personally know countless families destroyed and others still actively being destroyed at the hands of RF.  Either you are looking the other way or know it and just willingly let it continue.  Either way, Gwen is the manufacture of a 'drug' that destroys lives and families and has caused a similar pain to what you have experienced.  And as a leader of RF, you are essentially selling the drug.  I know you will disagree it's a drug.  Rather, you are convinced it's 'the truth'.  

But I am telling you, RF has destroyed countless families.  You cannot deny it.  If you do, you're blind or lying.  And you are a leader of that place and let the destruction of lives and families continue.  At least you got to completely raise Jacob up to adulthood and didn't have a significant portion of your child rearing years ripped away from you like Remnant has done to so many other mothers and fathers.

 

 

A couple other notes on what you said:

On 9/29/2018 at 8:54 AM, afather said:

It was stated as fact what when his arrest happened, his brother was also passed out, drunk and with him.   That is not true, he was not with his brother.  There was another person in the car, but it was not his brother.   I don’t know what “public record” is being referred to but there is no official record on the arrest where it mentions his brother in the car, because it did not happen.

It was stated as fact because that's what the Court of Criminal Appeals of Tennessee at Nashville documents mentioned twice under the section titled "Factual and Procedural History".  

Paragraph 6:

Paragraph 8:

https://cases.justia.com/tennessee/court-of-criminal-appeals/2015-m2014-01731-cca-r3-cd.pdf?ts=1446398798

Maybe Jacob lied to the officer that the other passed out person was his brother when he really wasn't.  Or maybe you're lying.  Whatever the case, it's very hard to take a RF's leader at his word.  On top of all the lies I hear from Gwen and other leaders when addressing a group, they have also lied directly to me to my face.  Flat. Out. Lied. To. My. Face.  And it came out so easily, just rolled off their tongue.  (They later got caught in this lie, but it proved first hand how they will lie right to your face.  And on such an important issue).  

No matter, small point on if Jacob's brother was drunk in the car too.  It was probably only mentioned to show as another example of a RF leader's child abuse alcohol.  If we need a different second example, we don't have to look far, do we? 

 

Quote

 We helped Jacob get to in-patient treatment, outpatient treatment, AA  all things he wanted to do to try to help to stop.   

I am glad.  It is interesting and ironic as I've heard Gwen mock these exact things.  There are so many examples of destroyed lives at Remnant because they couldn't/wouldn't seek outside counseling and help.  How did you get a free pass to do such a thing?  Again, I'm glad.  If only others there felt free to do the same.  (And don't tell me they feel they can!! )

 

Quote

And to anyone who is following and reading messages on this thread, I ask you to consider one thing -  if these people would post inaccurate facts and make up stories about something as tragic and personal as this, then consider the possibility that other things they so confidently talk about here may also not be fully true

I'm not on this forum for fun and I'm certainly not here to lie. 

This thread includes many various readers who have never had first hand experience of RF.  Once they see a common thread of the cult behavior exhibited by Remnant Fellowship and Gwen Shamblin, it's not uncommon they might speculate on a specific topic at hand within this thread.  Sure, some of that speculation is off, some is spot on.  But this thread also has a good handful of people who have first hand experiences with RF.  It's obvious who is speculating/guessing on how RF handles something and those who, 'in the know',  are trying to present facts they've experienced.  I've read every post and certainly don't see any intentional misleading information.  Actually, I see most postings of those with first hand account experience being very careful to state only things they know for sure and experienced themselves.  Again, the speculation statements are obvious and most would read those as speculation.  There are also a ton of facts on this long thread.  And as long as this thread is, only an inkling has come out relative to all that should come to light.

 

Again, my condolences.  And again, you enabled/caused/allowed similar pain across so many families.  

I spent over 24 hours thinking about how to respond after first reading your post.  I'm still not happy I've adequately verbalized my thoughts.  But I did intentionally want to say both of these next two things, and I understand the dichotomy of saying both of these in the same post.  I don't know how else to say it:

"I'm deeply sorry, I really am" and

"damn you!!" (for the turning a blind eye/enabling Gwen and RF to destroy as many lives and families as it has).  

I sincerely mean both statements. 

Instead of scoffing at the idea someone would say such strong words to you and immediately write me off, maybe instead you actually let what I said sink in.  And ask why would someone say such a thing to you personally.

Sincerely,

WorseThan1Thinks

[Kailash]

@WorseThan1Thinks Why do you call him Gordon? He signed his name Eldon. 

[WorseThan1Thinks]

58 minutes ago, Kailash said:

@WorseThan1Thinks Why do you call him Gordon? He signed his name Eldon. 

Apparently I was flustered.  I spent probably 2 hours writing/re-writing that post before hitting send.  I somehow combined Eldon Gormsen into 'Gordon'.  

No hidden meaning or anything.  My brain was just tied in knots. 

[MiddleTNAnon]

 

On 9/28/2018 at 9:10 PM, SuperNova said:

I guess I'll add my 2 cents to the meme topic. Pepe the frog, kek, and boi are difficult to explain to someone who isn't up on meme languange. I'm well past my teen years, pushing 40, but I absolutely love the nonsense of memes and their constant evolution. It's like it's own meaningless abstract language.

The media or adult take on memes is often far off the mark and the younger set tend to laugh when they see how outsiders view it. Connecting pepe to alt-right because he's been heavily used by certain groups doesn't translate to the younger set who still use pepe, less frequently now only because memes move fast and become stale but still used, often ironically. "Boi" has literally no political connection except what people give it in a particular context. It can be used to refer anything from meatballs (meaty bois) to lava (spicy boi). Kek just means laughs or jokes, as in, many keks were had. 

Trying to find meaning, underlying or otherwise is not the point of memes. It's a little difficult to explain something that not really meant to be any one thing. I have no doubt that there's groups who try to make them their own but it's not how they're generally used. All that to say that I understood the poster perfectly and didn't see anything wrong with what they wrote. Perhaps they had an underlying meaning but that wasn't the first place my mind went because I read that type of languange daily. Actually, it made me laugh when I read it because I've never read memespeak on FJ. 

Oops, I forgot to reply back on here since I was out enjoying fam and friends this weekend! But THIS. Thank you for explaining something I didn't know had to be explained. This is actually how I perceived the memes. The memes had no intention of being " alt-right" or racists or anything of that matter, but they were meant to troll RF members keeping a close eye on this forum. Of course, the moderator gods of this forum have warned me about posting memes that are considered "hate speech" so I will refrain from posting memes altogether which might offend you guys on here. I respectfully and sincerely apologize for any offense any you may have taken to these memes. I would like to continue and partake in this discussion forum. I don't see how you guys made the connection I might be from RF, I'm literally talking about them.... makes no sense. Either way, I'm sitting on a forum with strangers so it's of no surprise that you might be suspicious. I'm sorry If I offended any of you with my memespeak, that wasn't my intention at all, and I didn't notice it was an issue since since I use it daily.

 

I came to find advise in how I might influence some of my friends to come out of RF, and also what the members of this forum thought concerning the "generous" sum Gwen owed to David mentioned in the final decree of divorce documents uploaded by a member some time ago. Who will truly be paying for that sum? Does Gwen really have that much money? What do RF members think about this? Are they alright with possibly having to pay for those expenses?  Is she using their tithing for her own purpose? 

@WorseThan1Thinks I have made a MEGA account to share the divorce documents you uploaded on August 28 of 2018 with others since the links were removed. https://mega.nz/#F!2U8lWDRY!9JORyb6TbcgePvNLEhXrNg  #HAPPYDIGGING

[MiddleTNAnon]

On 9/29/2018 at 8:54 AM, afather said:

This post is for anyone who comes across this forum and sees what was recently post about my son, Jacob Gormsen.  I want to have a chance to clear up few facts about what has been said about my son, his brother, and his life and choices.

It was stated as fact what when his arrest happened, his brother was also passed out, drunk and with him.   That is not true, he was not with his brother.  There was another person in the car, but it was not his brother.   I don’t know what “public record” is being referred to but there is no official record on the arrest where it mentions his brother in the car, because it did not happen.

As to the statement about Jacob appealing his conviction due to “Perception” - that is totally false and had nothing to do with it.  Here is what really happened -  after the trial, Jacob’s public defender came to him and told Jacob he felt the case had good grounds for appeal.   After Jacob was told that, he then came to us and ask about it and what we thought he should do.  My and wife and I talked with him about just accepting the consequences of his actions and moving on.  We thought it would hold him back being focused on an appeal and it would be best for him to just accept the verdict and move on in life.  We told him that this one event would not define him and not limit him at all.   But he felt strongly about it wanting to try as he felt it would hinder him possible career choices (airlines was an interest of his) and so he decided to follow the attorney’s recommendation.   It was 100% his choice, even though he choose differently than we thought, but we totally understood and supported him through this process.

Lastly, Jacob did not commit suicide.  The story about Jacob’s death is one that sadly is not uncommon today.  He got caught up and involved in an addiction that is very hard to stop, as any parent would, we helped in any way we could.  We helped Jacob get to in-patient treatment, outpatient treatment, AA  all things he wanted to do to try to help to stop.   After then after years of struggling and with the support of his family, friends and church (and Gwen was his biggest encourager and supporter) he had reached a point in his life where things where turning around, he was happy again, he felt he had a future, had a full-time job and was looking forward to possibly going back to school.  But then he had a moment where he gave in again to the pull, and the combination of what he was sold and the lack of tolerance he had was more than his body could take and he died from an accidental overdose.

I am not here to start a debate and get into more details about my son, this will be my first and last post on this. My only reason for posting this, is so that anyone who comes across this forum and sees these posts about him, will also get the truth about his life, choices and death.

While I understand you are free to post whatever you want on this forum,  I would request that you refrain from saying things about Jacob that are not true and you know nothing about, it is painful enough to not have him with us anymore, let alone having to hear about and respond to false things being said about him and I pray that your family never has to go through something like this.

And to anyone who is following and reading messages on this thread, I ask you to consider one thing -  if these people would post inaccurate facts and make up stories about something as tragic and personal as this, then consider the possibility that other things they so confidently talk about here may also not be fully true

Eldon Gormsen

Here is a link to the post I am referring to, the thread is closed so I was unable to respond there.

https://www.freejinger.org/topic/31439-gwen-shamblin-2-divorce-what-divorce/?do=findComment&comment=1647467

 

@afather

I am deeply sorry about the loss of your son Mr. Gormsen. I myself have experienced the death of friends which are around the same age as your son, but I couldn't imagine the hardships you and your family have experienced. It is a tragedy that young people my age struggle with drug abuse, and I thank you for the support you offered your son. My most sincere apologies to you on behalf of everyone on here if what was said about your son was false. With that being said, I really do encourage you and your family to compare the teachings of Gwen with the actual historical context of the scriptures. There are so many details pertinent to the scriptures when it comes to understanding most verses which Gwen manipulates for her own teachings. She ensnares you and guilts you for questioning her teachings. I urge you and your family to leave Remnant Fellowship. She is using every every RF member to live a lavish life full of self-worship. With utmost respect, I'm sorry about your loss Mr. Gormsen.

[formergothardite]

So what does wordy bois mean to you @MiddleTNAnon

[sajetime]

1 hour ago, MiddleTNAnon said:

@WorseThan1Thinks I have made a MEGA account to share the divorce documents you uploaded on August 28 of 2018 with others since the links were removed. https://mega.nz/#F!2U8lWDRY!9JORyb6TbcgePvNLEhXrNg  #HAPPYDIGGING 

I'm probably being overly cautious, but I'm not comfortable clicking on links that you have created. I'd caution others to be careful too. I'm sorry that I'm getting an uneasy vibe from you, but I am. Time and consistency will tell.

[RFSurvivor_2]

1 hour ago, sajetime said:

I'm probably being overly cautious, but I'm not comfortable clicking on links that you have created. I'd caution others to be careful too. I'm sorry that I'm getting an uneasy vibe from you, but I am. Time and consistency will tell.

@sajetime I scanned, checked the hashes / checsums and opened each document. They are clean. Good work @MiddleTNAnon, thank you for your contribution!

Note: I am a professional Information Security/Cybersecurity Engineer with several industry certifications. I hope that this is a factor in deciding if anyone is comfortable about downloading the documents from the link. Take my words as you will with healthy skepticism and do your part in making sure you’re above reproach.

I personally use Mega and have since it was called “megashare” many years ago. The site @MiddleTNAnon is using is legit. I advise anyone who downloads from Mega to just download the documents via the browser and not use the Mega share downloader. Anything can happen between the moment you initiate a download and the moment you obtain the data you seeking. This applies to ANY website on the public on the world wide web. Some websites are more or less secure and have more or less malicious intentions. Be aware of this. Be smart.

I would advise anyone, just to be sure, the scan any document or data shared on the internet using your antivirus and/or make sure your antivirus / internet security is set to automatically scan/audit ALL items you download. If anyone is thinking “boy is this excessive”, it isn’t. This is basic internet security 101. Welcome to 2018 and beyond! 

Oh and another thing: I am not liable or responsible for any machine that potentially can be infected or is infected by downloading documents here on this thread and/or site as a whole. I am simply offering advice and sharing a unique perspective from someone who, to be frank, knows what he is talking about and knows his stuff.

...and another thing. Mac users: To put it bluntly, do not give me that “I have a Mac, it can’t get viruses” excuse. Some of the most virus and backdoor ridden machines I have ever laid my eyes and hands on were Macintosh computers. If you have a PC and/or Mac, you should have antivirus. Period. This bit of advice is coming from a PC, Mac & Linux user.

Oh and I have some words to share with and about @afather. I am still processing after his post and want to tactfully yet bluntly share my experience and share (brutal) facts. 

[zeebaneighba]

2 hours ago, MiddleTNAnon said:

@afather

My most sincere apologies to you on behalf of everyone on here if what was said about your son was false. 

Please do not presume to speak for everyone on this board.  

[MiddleTNAnon]

2 hours ago, formergothardite said:

So what does wordy bois mean to you @MiddleTNAnon

I'm actually not sure honestly. It started with "bois" as in like boys. So the meme would start with something like "Who would win? twenty ninjas or two strong bois (boys)" and people just started changing it while keeping the bois on it. So often times it didn't even make sense but that was the meme. So the meme I made was basically "who would win? Gwen's doctrine? or two words: Holy Bible". The presumption is always that the second part that included "X" amount of words would always win. So my meme was basically saying that the Holy Bible wins, and not Gwen's doctrine. Example: https://postimg.cc/ykPVwDyC

[MiddleTNAnon]

25 minutes ago, zeebaneighba said:

Please do not presume to speak for everyone on this board.  

I would go back and edit but I can't. Moderators have to approve everything I post.

Update: "My most sincere apologies to you if what was said about your son was false."

Corrected.

[MiddleTNAnon]

Also, these were the four images I posted but yielded an error after submitting them. They are captures of the documents inside the MEGA link. How does she continue to make money? I don't understand. Who is actually buying her products besides her congregation? Maybe I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure her business isn't that prosperous anymore, or is it? Confused. I remember somewhere in the documents saying she had a cool $780,000 in one of her bank accounts. IMO, That's a rather large amount for her size of congregation and what I believe to be her dying business (WDM). How much do members tithe to RF anyways? 

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

 

[RFhmmm]

I have been a member of Remnant for almost a decade now. I created this username several threads ago because I wanted to anonymously ask RF survivor one and two to clarify any child abuse they had personally experienced or observed in the church. I was sincerely curious because I do know exactly who they are.  They were in the church long before I joined. I have no intention of exposing their identity. I joined after the Smith case and all of the child abuse allegations. The only reason I am jumping in now is to clarify several things that have been said on here that are verifiably false. Silverbeach made a statement that they did not believe people would come on here and make false statements. It’s interesting to me how so many people on here use other anonymous members statements as their source to state what they believe are facts. It was websites like this and spirit watch that caused me great concern initially.  The more I checked out the church for myself, the more I found what was written and said about RF to be false. Not everything, but most. I’ll expand on what I mean by “most” since that means some things that are said are true. 

 

My wife and daughter became interested in the church, and after they had lost all of their weight through Weigh Down, I became very concerned. My wife had first taken Weigh Down in the 90s like millions of others across the country. At the time, Weigh Down was the number one Bible Study in the world. Pretty much everyone we knew who was overweight, in every church in our hometown was taking this class. She lost her weight and did not gain it back. We then had another child, 10 years later, in 2007 and for the first time she gained back her original weight. We had heard that Gwen had been kicked out of all of the churches in the early 2000’s because she said she did not believe in the Trinity, as it’s defined by the Catholic Church and accepted by the protestant churches. I’m not going to get into a doctrinal debate, if anybody is interested in what her stance is, you can read it in the “What We Believe” section of the official RF website. While atheists don’t believe in any of it, I think if you read Gwen‘s position, versus the Catholic and the majority of protestant churches position, you might agree it makes much more sense. As a result of her Trinity statement, she was labeled a cult by mainstream Christianity. For those who are not familiar with how the Mainstream Christian world works, going against the trinity doctrine is a huge deal. You instantly become a heretic and if it’s a church, it’s labeled a cult. Once you are publicized to be a cult, typically, anybody who is checking it out associates it with all of the additional definitions of what a cult would mean to them. Bottom line, you are grouped in with the Kool-Aid groups. As a result of all of this, we had assumed Weigh Down was no longer around when my wife wanted to lose the weight again she had gained through her pregnancy. 

 

Side note, one of the accusations against Gwen is that she started the church for money or that’s one of the motivations. The facts are, her wealth is a result of her Bible Study going viral. At its peak, it was shipping out 250,000 units per day. When she took her stance on the Trinity, she had another book about to be released by her Christian publisher. They called her into their office and told her that she needed to retract her statement or she would lose the book deal. Her response was, “If you thought I was in this for the money you have no idea what I’m about.” While others may not agree with her interpretation of Scripture, she refuses to change it for any amount of money or for the approval of what anyone thinks of her. She willingly walked away from millions of dollars in that decision, she recently made that same decision in recent circumstances. She was forewarned that she would be ostracized by the church community, it did not matter, she willingly gave it up. She then used part of her own money to donate the land and fund the building of the majority of the church building, on her own. She also has never taken a salary from the church. She invested her money wisely and had been able to take care of herself, and many others, without needing to take any from the church. That she was in it for the money was one of the many lies that was very obvious to me quickly. When I would go to visit RF, they never once passed a collection plate. They have never done a sermon or talked about tithing or anything like that. They have a little slot in the back wall that I didn’t even know existed for the first six years I attended. You can put a tithe in, if you feel led to. After a couple of years, I felt led to start tithing on my own and actually started sending my checks to the Weigh Down office, because I didn’t know what the actual procedure should be. I also observed the leadership tell people who were tithing but were also over their heads in debt, etc to stop tithing and put that money towards getting their debt paid off first. Experiencing the exact opposite as what it said on websites like this, is what helped convert me. This is just one example.  

 

Back to my experience. My wife researched and found out that Weigh Down was still around, although no longer in the churches. Now she could do a class in her own home. She did it and both her and our two daughters lost about 130 pounds altogether (the youngest just by overhearing the CDs on their drives to and from dance classes, and on her own putting the principals into practice) 11 years later, they have still kept it off. In the process of taking the class the second time around, my wife discovered that there was a church started. We eventually visited. To be honest, I did feel a little strange about how friendly and loving everybody was. I have been in church all of my life and never experienced a group of people who were so loving. Love bombing did come to mind. It’s sad that people who grew up in churches and read what the church should look like in the Bible find it strange when a church shows so much love and kindness, and the fact that they are willing to donate their time and energy and gifts that God has given them to help their brothers and sisters in the church. They find it strange or wrong. Yes, we do get to experience weddings that would cost somewhere between $50,000 and $100,000 for a tiny fraction of that cost, because the church operates like the church of Acts in the New Testament. 

 

After visiting twice. My wife and oldest daughter became extremely interested and wanted to join. Where as I just thought it was an interesting experience and would have moved on. I dove deep into researching everything that Gwen was teaching. I kept visiting and talking to/interviewing members of the church. Many midnight sessions of researching all of the negative information out there on the Internet. Keep in mind, I was not a part of the start of the church nor was I around during the Smith case or child abuse accusations etc. I had to weed through all of the information presented on both sides to come to the conclusions I came to. I don’t blame people on here who do not bother to take the time to go visit and find out for themselves, because I personally would not have done it, had my wife and child not have chosen to go down this path. I was forced to do so. For whatever reason, I had somewhat of an open mind, as opposed to simply assuming it was a cult right up front. Investigating it from that point of view. It appears that there are people on here who have visited and even some who have visited (or are former members) over a long period of time and have decided it wasn’t for them. I’m interested to see if they’re willing to dispute some of the facts I’m about to lay out. I understand they may not have agreed with Gwens teaching or even may have been offended personally by it therefore chose not to continue and have even decided to be antagonistic. Having said that, their lack of being willing to dispel what they know is not true makes their agenda obvious. If I don’t like this group I don’t want anybody to like it or be a part of it. My personal experience was that the more I looked into it and the more I researched it the more I found out that what the antagonists were saying simply wasn’t true. Initially I had to make that call and have faith that I was correct because I was going to be taking my family down this path. A decade later the evidence of having actually been a part of the church and how we have been treated and how it has operated has proven that the antagonists were lying. So let’s get into a few specifics.

 

I will start off, by addressing the major accusations, I don’t have time to address every single weird little accusation that’s not accurate, so I’m just addressing the major ones.  Perhaps someone who is actually searching for the truth, can hopefully put two and two together to realize that if these aren’t true, the majority of the other things said are not true either. We are a very transparent and public group of people, come check us out.

We webcast or Livestream almost everything. Our profiles are public. We aren’t hiding behind fake names. We openly share our struggles and our successes. 

 

 

Gwen’s Divorce and Remarriage:

 

I’m not going to get into details of the marriage and why it lead to divorce. Those who have been close to the situation know it was needed and wish it had happened sooner for her sake. Gwen, very graciously, is not willing to put details out to the public. However,  I’m very confident that anyone aware of the whole situation would absolutely support this decision. I’m only going to clear up one fact because the poster is trying to create a false timeline to get people to draw false conclusions. They stated that Joe Lara started attending the church in April 2017. That is not true. His first visit was at a wedding held at the end of August 2017. He was apart of a BNA business networking group for over a year, that a few Remnant members were also a part of. They invited him to the wedding. That was his first time meeting any of us. Anybody who has ever experienced a break up or knows of somebody, knows that the date paperwork is filed is not when it actually happened. There’s usually many months, if not years leading up to the filing of the paperwork. To try to insinuate that Joe had something to do with their divorce is disingenuous at best. The timeline speaks for itself if you apply any level of common sense. I will leave it at that. Again, if somebody out there is reading these posts, and you are trying to find the truth, you are welcome to visit and your questions will be answered. By the way, just look at all the conclusions people jumped to and put out as fact from a picture that someone took one frame of a video. One conclusion was that they faced the audience the whole time. No, at times they faced those officiating, they faced each other and they faced the audience. This isn’t a big deal but just an example of how false ideas get spread. By the way, I would challenge any of you to send me a five second video and see if I can’t pull out one frame that makes you look distorted or anyway that I want to make you look. 

 

 

 

If you leave the church you are shunned:

 

That is false. I know several people who have left the church because it just wasn’t for them. I am still friends with them and associate with them, when we have something in common. Obviously, we’re not as close as we used to be. We don’t have the same things in common. That’s true of everybody in life though. Friends come and go, based on commonality of interests. Having said that, if somebody becomes hostile or divisive and starts publicly attacking, then of course we’re going to stop associating with them. If they stop that behavior, then we will start associating with them. I’m pretty sure there are probably people here on this website, who have defriended people that they used to associate with, because of something like political differences. Based on how toxic the political environment in this country has become, it wouldn’t be surprising. It’s not unusual for people to stop associating with people who attacked them for things that they are a part of or believe strongly in. What you will not find, is somebody who left the church because they simply didn’t agree with what it taught, but did not feel led to try to tear it down, that we stopped associating with them. Lack of common beliefs, may have caused natural separation, but not maliciousness. Obviously, when somebody is leaving, we would try to persuade them to stay. It would be weird if we say we believed strongly in what is taught at this church and yet didn’t care if somebody was walking away from it. I’m sure there have been times that a politician went from one party to another party, and their friends in the party they were leaving tried to persuade them to stay, because they believe strongly that their friend was making a mistake by leaving.

 

Along the same lines would be the accusation of tearing families apart, whether it would be causing divorce, or families to split. Typically, when divorce has happened as a result of somebody joining the church, it has been the result of living in an environment of extreme anger, hostility even abuse, from the non-member. That non-member bought so deeply into the cult accusations and became so outraged that they couldn’t control their spouse and make them do what they wanted them to do, or go to the church that they wanted them to go to, or stop going to the church they didn’t want them to go to. Rafael, from Spirit Watch, is probably responsible for more of these situations than any other person. He believes so strongly that anybody who does not believe in his definition of the trinity, is a heretic. He has initiated contact with family members to divide them, countless times.  

 

I am actually friends with several husbands and even have a few relatives where one spouse is in the church and another is not, where there is total peace and normality in the marriage and the household. When both spouses respect each other, even if they do not choose to have the same belief system, there is not a problem. I even know several spouses who are very concerned from the Mainstream Christian perspective that their spouse is wrong for attending a church that doesn’t believe in Mainstream Christianity‘s version of the Trinity. However, they are still married because, even though they dislike the fact their spouse is going to the church, they’re not going to push their beliefs on the RF member (rather be mutually respectful), and are still married. When a divorce has occurred, which is very rare, it has usually been initiated by the other spouse, not the one who joined Remnant. We even have a wife who is dealing with a situation where their spouse has taken their car away from them, and their phone and computers away, to try to control their communication and access to anybody other than who he wants them to see. He is doing this under the belief that it’s appropriate because, since his wife has decided she does not believe in what his church teaches anymore,  but believes in what RF teaches. This is with the approval of his own Church leaders that claim Remnant is a dangerous and controlling cult. Gwen, knowing this, always counsels spouses in those situations to personally change, and fix anything they may have done in their marriage that is wrong and love their spouses. Over time, things will typically not only get back to normal, but will be even better. Even if their spouse never joins Remnant. 90% of the time that’s exactly what happens. 10% of the time the spouse is so consumed with hatred of Remnant and the fact that they cannot control their spouse and make them leave, they often then file for divorce. If you actually interview all of the spouses who do not go to the church, but remained with their wives or husbands who do go to the church, they will tell you how much better of a person their spouse has become as a result of joining Remnant. Their marriages are far superior to what they were prior to joining. Several of them even moved their wife and kids to be closer to the church because it was such a positive impact on their family, even though they do not want it for themselves. These are the type of situations that I observed when I investigated for myself, versus the few people speaking negatively on these websites. 

 

Let’s address RF survivor one and two when it comes to this issue. They jumped on the bandwagon of people posting about hearing we did not associate with the relatives or people not in the church, or that we shunned them or we shunned anybody who ever left. They exposed the fact that they lied about that in their own writings. If you paid attention to it. They first claimed they were shunned when they left the church. Later they claimed that some of their family and friends who are in the church figured out who they were on this site, and have now decided to shun them. Which is it? 

Did your friends and family in the church shun you when you left years ago, or when you began to actively publicly ridicule and attack their church, recently? 

The facts are, when you left, your friends tried to stay connected with you, in hopes that you would change your mind as I discussed before. Even when it was obvious this was not a short term decision they tried to stay connected with you, on any level that they could, at which time you sent this text to Your closest friends:

[Text Images Removed Due to Violation of TOU]

These text presented, are from more than a year after they left the church. That indicates their RF friends had not abandoned them. As you can see in this text it was RF survivor who decided to end the relationships. I have no issue with her feeling like she needed to do this for whatever reason, but to blatantly lie and try to continue and spread the false rumors that Remnant treats people like this is wrong. These are the type of lies that have been put out there, that have been cited as fact, one after another over years, that then causes trusting people to get on and read, then jump to the conclusion that it’s true. 

 

This was another thing I did.  I visited and met with people that were not only in the church, but I actively pursued members of the family, who were not in the church. I wanted to get their perspective and found out all the twisted lies. I did meet RF members who had their families cut them off after they joined Remnant. Their family thought they were trying to save their family member from a dangerous cult. However, after years of observing the lives of their family in RF, and seeing that they were not only normal, but peaceful and joyful etc., that they finally gave up the cult battle and now enjoy wonderful relationships with their family. They look back on the time that they alienated and pushed away and cut off their family members who joined the church and are ashamed at their past behavior. They now even attend church as a visitor when their grandkids, or if somebody is in a church production or whatever,  like any normal family member does. They even have become friends with Gwen now and they’re still not in the church, and have zero interest in joining. This is an easy one to investigate. Just show up. You can be introduced to aunts and uncles and friends of members of Remnant who are not members of our church, but have great relationships between them. You can also be introduced to family members who got caught up with Rafael and Spirit Watch, who started up the fear in them and caused them to lose years of relationships with their family members who joined the church, because they were willing to listen to a fanatic like Rafael. I listened to about 10 minutes of one of his seminars and it was very obvious to me, that he is nothing more that a failed wanna-be pastor who got on a cult kick and decided to create a ministry where he can make a living, and get an audience, exposing “so-called cults” as he defines them, because his own religious system doesn’t agree with what they teach. Ask him why his first wife left him. 

 

SJWaterford is a perfect example of a mother who is doing this to her daughter. My wife and I have gotten to know her daughter and we know her story well. They are a local family, who as SJ has stated, knew of the church and bought into the rumor mill about it in the community, but didn’t take it seriously, as she stated in an earlier post, because she had no association with it. When her daughter met her boyfriend in her senior year in high school, they then became concerned. Unfortunately,  they approached the situation with the belief that everything they had heard was true, without ever truly checking it out with an open mind. SJ has made many false statements that I’m going to clarify. I’m going to try to be brief, but to dispute some of this, I will have to be direct, to make sure the truth is out there. Our hope is that SJ will stop this destructive behavior. Her own actions are separating her from her daughter, keeping her from having a normal relationship. SJ claims that her daughter was 17 when a lot of this happened which is not true. My wife and I had lunch with SJs Daughter and got to hear the whole story. Instead of me recounting it, I will post the text that her daughter sent me when I asked for her to shoot over details and dates because I wanted to be accurate.

 

“in February 2017 I turned 18. I graduated high school in May of 2017, that summer was when my parents took all forms of communication and transportation. I walked to church. It was then thought that it was unsafe for me not to have a phone in case of emergency*. I was 18 and out of the school system when a phone was purchased for me for safety reasons.

They asked if I would feel better if I was given a phone and I said yes.”

 

*thought to be unsafe by members of RF church. 

 

I don’t know about the rest of you, but I’ve heard plenty of stories where kids have turned 18 and their parents tried to stop them from seeing somebody, for any number of reasons, and even kids under 18 who have ignored their parents and taken off and left home. It’s not that unusual of a thing to happen when parents try to control a young adult. In this case, the daughter was encouraged to stay in the home and be as respectful as possible while not giving up her new religious conviction and beliefs. As is the right of any parent, they took away the things that they paid for from her and gave her an ultimatum, to live in their house, which is their right to do. Having said that, you don’t get to say that the church caused your family separation. You are the one who gave the ultimatum. SJ also claimed that her daughter was punishing her by not going to lunch with her father. Again, trying to build on the accusation that the church encourages relationships to separate. The first time that SJ claimed this she was actually correct. Both her and her husband had been actively and aggressively attacking her and the church. Their daughter did not want to go to lunch with them, if she was going to be attacked for her new choice in religion. The following week, the father asked the daughter to lunch again. His daughters only request was that they did not talk about the church. As soon as the father agreed to this, she went to lunch with him. That was on August 9. 

On August 11, SJ once again made the same accusation on FJ, that her daughter, at the direction of Remnant, would not go to lunch with her father. She knew very well that her daughter had just gone to lunch with him two days prior. The following week, August 17 their daughter spent time with her father on his birthday. She has been able to slowly rebuild her relationship with her father because, he has decided that he would rather have a relationship with his daughter, then draw a line in the sand about Remnant. He stopped being hateful, intolerant, and vengeful towards his daughter’s lifestyle choice of being in Remnant. Not wanting to sacrifice his relationship with his daughter, just to try to take down the church. (As if that could happen anyway. If it could have spirit watch would have accomplished that along time ago.) 

Unless it becomes necessary, I won’t post the texts that have been sent to me between SJ and her daughter.  If I did, it would be shocking if this group allowed her to stay in this forum.  She is extremely abusive in her comments. Her choice of vulgar language towards her daughter, is disheartening. Her daughter is always respectful in her responses. I’m sure based on the tone of some of her comments on FJ, you can sense the hostile state of mind that SJ is in. We don’t hold this against her. We are hopeful that, just as many other family members who have gone to war with  Remnant family members, and then eventually backed off, to then enjoy a very fruitful relationship with their relative, is what SJ will do with her daughter. I feel confident in saying that if SJ and her father were to call her daughter up and remove ultimatums, and commit to agreeing to disagree when it comes to what church they attend, and to stop the attacks, that she would move back home with her parents if that’s what they wanted. If separation ends up happening permanently in this situation it will be 100% one-sided. Their daughter is young and hopefully, they all have many years ahead of them. We pray that eventually the parents will settle down and reconciliation will happen. It will always be pushed from the Remnant side to be at peace with relatives. The ball is in their court. To end this section I again would challenge anybody to find a relative, who has been cut off from a family member, where there has been no vicious attack or abuse by that family member towards the Remnant member.

 

Child Abuse and the Smith case:

 

Child abuse accusations and the Smith case all happened prior to me visiting or ever hearing about Remnant. It was the thing I was most concerned about and had to weed through to find out if there was any truth to it. Because I was actively visiting and talking to the members and their children etc. it was pretty easy to dismiss the child abuse accusations. I couldn’t find a child or teenager or parent that believed in that stuff. I could not find a child who experienced anything like that. On top of that, I quickly found out that they record and archive every talk and sermon that Gwen has ever done. They had a series called Constant Encouragement which were the first two years of sermons that Gwen did. I listened to every single one as part of weeding through what she was teaching doctrinally versus what I had grown up with. There was not one mention of anything that would sound like child abuse. On the contrary, she taught respect for the little children and that when you communicate with them, to get down on your knee and look him in the eye at their level and to lovingly redirect, when they needed it. To catch their needs before they came up, so that they would not become uncomfortable and know that they were loved. Always being gentle, and never speak cruelly and never humiliate. The sermons were given prior to the Smith case and the child abuse accusations. So there is no way she would have known what was coming, to try to create two years worth of talks to counter it. During the Smith case, the Franklin Police Department through normal procedure raided the church and the Weigh Down property and confiscated all of their computers and hard drives which had every talk that Gwen had ever done. They spent five years, and over a half a million dollars of taxpayer money, to try to find any parenting instructions otherwise. Not only is every sermon professionally taped, but every talk in small groups are also recorded. This is done in case the discussion is something she feels God wants her to do a sermon on in the future. She’ll have the resources to go back to and listen to what questions are, and what was said that prompted the discussion. If she were an advocator of child abuse it would have come out somewhere in one of her talks.

 

The fact that what I personally had heard, not only in Gwen’s sermons and talks but from the congregation, was the exact opposite from what she was being accused of teaching. Again, proving to me that what was being said, were rumors that were built upon rumors. 10 years later, I still haven’t been able to find a glue stick in this place for spanking purposes (although, multiple glue sticks are used in decorating for the weddings!). By the way, this is something that RF survivor one and two could corroborate, but I’m sure would be unwilling to because they have decided to attack Remnant, versus simply moving on and living their life, if they decided they don’t agree with it, like a lot of others before and after them have.

 

So what about the Smith case. To me this was very simple when I checked it out. I wasn’t there and neither was Gwen or anybody else when the child died. It occurred in the families home state of Georgia. Over the last 10 years I’ve had the opportunity to speak with Joseph and Sonya, over the phone, and their oldest son in person, and based on all of the legal facts that went into the case, and my personal experience with them, I would be shocked if they were guilty. Having said that, no one will truly know until we stand before our maker. What I do know is that Gwen and the members of the church who knew the Smiths, believe that they are innocent. That is the only reason Gwen decided to put her personal reputation and her own money on the line to defend them. Think about it, this is an African-American couple who lived in Georgia. The easy thing for Gwen to do would have been to the disown them and walk away. In this thread there have been accusation tones of racism. Well I think her actions proved she’s not a racist. Based on what she believes is true, she not only was willing to walk away from millions of dollars to stand behind her convictions of her doctrinal beliefs, she was also willing to put everything on the line to defend an African-American couple, who live in a completely different state that she easily could’ve saved herself years of trouble and accusations had she walked away. By the way, take a look at the state of Georgia, and their track record of falsely accusing African-Americans and putting them in jail. If you also want to, look up the coroner and his record and punishment for falsifying evidence. Two of the supreme court justices in Georgia also wrote that they should not have been convicted. I’m not going to get into all the details because more is coming out and being put out to make sure the public has the facts of the case. Having said all of that, we all might be wrong about the Smiths in the end, but I find it noble that someone in Gwen’s position would stand up and defend a couple that she believes is innocent, even if she ends up being wrong in the end. Based on the fact that she believes they’re innocent means she is doing the right thing.

 

 

Why do we wear white?

 

A few times a year we have a church festival where purity is the main theme and so we wear white to represent that. Just like when I go to a Nashville Preds game, I wear yellow along with 20,000 other people or if I go to a Titans game, I wear light blue along with 50,000 other people, or on Fourth of July I wear red, white, and blue with millions of other people. During Christmas the vast majority of people will wear red and black and green across a variety of churches. I guess there’s just a lot of cults out there. 

 

On an earlier post someone brought up using similar terminology in the church. Companies, organizations and if you look at your own slang that you use on this website, groups who spend time together will end up having words or phrases that they adopt. Every church I ever attended had certain phrases that were exclusive to them that their pastor or somebody had used and it was picked up by the congregation. If using words and phrases that are exclusive to your group makes you a cult then this whole website is definitely a cult based on the words you use that the outside world would have no clue what you’re talking about.

 

Gwen and Leaders Control You:

 

This was a big one that I had to make sure what the truth was before I joined. I have always been a very independent business person. To the point that I wouldn’t have ever taken a job from an employer, because I didn’t want to be told what to do. That was a foolish way to think but it’s where I was. When I learned that what is actually taught is, if I truly do believe in God and that there is actually a Holy Spirit, I would want to seek and find out what God wants for me to do in every situation. For even a wise kings seeks the counsel of many advisers. That is what is taught here. Whatever church one goes to, I would assume they are  going to it because they believe that the pastor and leaders have wisdom and are appointed by God. Therefore, going to them for advice and direction would be wise. Every time I have put this into practice, and have gone to leaders for advice or direction, the number one thing that I am told to do, is pray and ask God for a clear lead. Very rarely has something been so obvious that they gave me very specific directions that they felt I should take. Even at that it was still left up to me to call the shot. Gwen and leadership are very aware that God himself does not force human beings to follow His direction, so they certainly don’t. 

 

 

Kids of Remnant Members making bad decisions or leaving the church:

 

Obviously every individual will make their own mind up as to their belief or lack of belief in God, and which church gives them the best chance to have a connection with God. Children who join the church as a result of their parents making the decision that they wanted to plant their flag at remnant, must grow up and make their own decision at some point. Some kids explore and experiment as they developed their own belief system. Most of the kids that RF survivor would try to point out, did make bad choices but ultimately came back and decided for themselves that they wanted to build their families in Remnant. Obviously not all will choose to stay for a variety of reasons. RF Survivor 1&2 are perfect examples of this. In their case, RF Survivor 1s parents left the church also and they followed them out. That tells me the family was not very well grounded in the church so I have no idea what kind of weird misconceptions might have happened as a result of growing up in that household. 

 

They’re not disowned. (Often times, they will disown their own family or friends) Parents absolutely will try hard to keep their children in the church, because they believe it’s what’s best for them. SJ Waterford knows this. Just look at how hard she is trying to get her child out of RF,  based on her own personal beliefs. It’s not just Remnant parents who try to persuade their children to make the same decisions they’ve made about God and religion. I challenge you to look at the percentages of children who actually stay in Remnant based on their life experiences, versus the majority of churches out there. It’s well-documented, that the youth of America are following in the footsteps of Europe. They are abandoning churches at an alarming rate. One of the things that we are excited about as parents in The Remnant, is that the vast majority of our youth have stayed. They are now starting families of their own inside the church. 

 

 

Just to clear up a few more misconceptions that have been perpetuated on here. Some children go to public school and some are homeschooled. That’s the choice of the parents. As you can imagine, based on the local community buying into a lot of the propaganda, Remnant kids do get bullied and discriminated against at school, so I’m sure we have a larger percentage that choose to be homeschooled because of that. The purpose of being out in the community is not for missionary dating. Sometimes kids do date outside of the church. It’s not motivated by any recruiting agenda. Just as any religious person does in a similar situation, the relationship either finds common ground in their belief system and it continues or they can’t and it typically would end. The only time that doesn’t happen,  is if one or the other does not have a strong religious belief system or conviction. 

 

The only direction given about the Internet, is obviously guiding our kids not to be foolish on social media. We certainly do not hide the negative websites out there we just encourage people not to go on them so they do not boost them up in Google searches. Every member is highly aware of the negative writing, because we talk openly about it.  It’s easy to defend. They know what their life is like versus what is written so it’s not difficult to expose the lies. It’s actually a source of entertainment because of how outrageous the claims can be. It’s a great tool for us to ground our kids in remnant because they know the truth vs many things that are written. Just another example of rumors that get put out there. For instance, many locals kids believe that we have a swimming pool on top of the church. Not even sure what the purpose of that rumor is. As a result of it, a couple of years ago some youth from the church next door, climbed up on top of our roof, they wanted to check it out for themselves and then, one of them broke their arm jumping off. 

 

Another time, one of our college students was doing a ride along with a police officer in Brentwood as part of her investigative reporting class. The police officer drove her by the church and said “You know that’s a cult and they beat their children and have a dungeon underneath it,” then tells her that he could take her inside and show it to her if she wanted. To which our college student replied, “I’m actually a member of that church so I can take you in and give you a tour.” Needless to say the police officer was completely embarrassed and said that he was just joking and it’s just a community joke. (*sidenote, the basement is a ballet studio and a huge decorating room)

 

We only listen to Micheal’s music:

 

False!!! 

 

Obviously the first few years Michael was the main source of music because he was the only one who wrote music. Over the years many musicians have joined the church and written songs that are played at church and listened to by everybody. We even use several classic church hymns that are in line with our doctrine. In addition to that, if you’ve ever been to one of our events or weddings you know we play music from all genres.

 

Starvation:

 

It’s interesting how people on here want to claim that Gwen is teaching something dangerous yet also claim that she is simply copying programs that have been around forever and just put a religious twist to it. Bottom line the basics to the program are to not eat until you are truly hungry, represented by your stomach growling which is what it does when it is actually empty and stopping when you’re satisfied not waiting until your stuffed. Only in America would somebody claim that waiting for your stomach to growl would represent starvation. If that’s your true belief you obviously have no clue what real starvation actually is and you are beyond spoiled. Instead of trying to pick out one or two people to try and make your case, do you look at the profiles of the majority. Nobody would claim starvation is happening if they did that.

 

In regards to doctrine. I’m not going to get into a debate. As I said before the main reason for responding to this website was to address some of the crazy accusations that really have nothing to do with doctrine. If you have a desire to find out what we believe or what Gwen teaches you can go to remnantfellowship.org and look under the, “What We Believe” tab. If you are happy with your life and where you go to church and you honestly feel like you have a strong connection with God then that’s great. If you’re like many of us who felt like what they were taught was right but it didn’t really truly cause permanent change or a strong relationship with God then you might want to reevaluate what you’re being taught.

 

People wonder why the church is growing so much. It’s simple, even though websites like this are out there spewing false accusations and perceptions, many are still willing to come check it out for themselves. They find out the truth. Websites like this are having less and less impact because, as the church grows we are out in the community both in the workplaces and socially. As people meet us they cannot make sense of what is written on sites like this, compared to their experiences in meeting us and becoming friends with us. It doesn’t add up. It doesn’t add up because, the vast majority of what is said, other than some specific doctrinal differences from Mainstream Christianity, just aren’t true.

 

This is long enough. Unfortunately I was trying to address who knows how many pages of comments and accusations. This only scratches the surface. As a broad statement I will simply say, if somebody asks “what about this,” if it sounds weird it’s probably not true. Using disgruntled ex members as your source isn’t good enough. Especially since for every one person with real experience or interaction with the remnant that might be negative I can introduce you to a hundred who are positive. I’m talking about both members and non-members that would be positive based on their real life interactions. Everybody else out there is simply throwing opinions around about something they don’t truly know anything about. Having said that if you’re really curious as I have stated before, you’ll just have to come check it out.

 

From our side, we encourage our members to always meet hate with kindness. It isn’t always easy, but since we are confronted daily with heaps of hatred, we have a lot of opportunity to practice this, and it gets easier as the years go by. This forum is a great example of what the Remnant encounters all the time, and yet, I’m hard-pressed to find a more joyful, loving, thankful, grateful, peaceful, gentle, accepting, patient, self-controlled, kinder, faithful, long-suffering and most merciful group on the face of the planet. We stand for good. We don’t judge you, we absolutely understand where you’re coming from, and why you think and believe the way you do. 

 

With respect,

RF Member

 

Ps. I have spent the last few days Putting together this response as I’ve had time. Since then WorseThan1Thinks Posted a response to Eldon. If you are willing to be honest, I bet you would have to be willing to say that you took on the same attitude as SJWaterford. There will be no peace between me and my relative unless they walk away from Remnant. When you were unable to force them to abandon their beliefs and you couldn’t force them not to expose your children to those beliefs, just as you have the right to expose your children to whatever you believe, it infuriated you. Unfortunately you decided your pride and anger were more important  than peace with your family. Again if anybody wants to truly challenge this I will introduce you to multiple spouses who are not members of Remnant yet have very peaceful family lives. I will even introduce you to husbands who took a very angry position for several years but didn’t push it so far as to cause a divorce, who have finally come around and let go of their anger. They are very happily married now. I’m sorry that you chose to exert your anger and resentment to the point of divorce which has caused you all of this pain. The difference between you and Eldon is, your choices caused your pain and loss of time with your children. Eldons loss came as the result of choices that were out of his control. He did everything he could to avoid what happened to his family. you did everything you could to cause what happened to you and your family.

 

 

 

[RFhmmm]

By the way, the purpose of my post is for people trying to find out the truth about Remnant that stumble across this site.  I wanted to give them just enough information to see how disingenuous or flat out ignorant the majority of the the people who have posted on here are. It would be easy to  dispute many more comments but I’m going to trust somebody truly seeking the truth will continue their search other places than just the negative websites.  The purpose is not  to engage with those who are members of the site. I know that would be futile. So I will not be responding to questions or further  accusations or attacks. For the few of you who think you are truly trying to save us. I promise you we do not need saving. We do not need saved from our improve marriages, improved families and improved lives. We will be OK if you leave us in our peace and joy that we now have in our lives as a result of being members of Remnant fellowship church. No saving necessary!!!

[sajetime]

On 10/1/2018 at 11:54 AM, RFhmmm said:

So I will not be responding to questions or further  accusations or attacks. 

That’s too bad, ****. I was hoping you’d address Gwen’s  “improved marriage, improved family,” divorce and remarriage in a church that stresses saved relationships and dying to self. 

[RFSurvivor_2]

On 10/1/2018 at 12:01 PM, sajetime said:

That’s too bad, ****. I was hoping you’d address Gwen’s divorce and remarriage in a church that stresses saved relationships and dying to self. 

Edit: You may be correct. The timing of things are definitely leaning towards this. The only way to know is for him/her to state his/her name. At least Eldon had the balls to say it was him. Kudos to you @sajetime!

[AliceInFundyland]

Yes. I’m completely convinced it’s not a cult. Well done. 

 

Also, fascinating as it is to watch this unfold - don’t forget that we don’t know who any of you current and former members are, even if you do. Be careful with your details.

[MiddleTNAnon]

 

@RFhmmm We would really like some insight on Gwen's marriage with Joe, and I would like to know how it is that Gwen has so much money and yet no real ministry for the needy. 

 

[hoipolloi]

28 minutes ago, RFhmmm said:

 I wanted to give them just enough information to see how disingenuous or flat out ignorant the majority of the the people who have posted on here are. It would be easy to  dispute many more comments but I’m going to trust somebody truly seeking the truth will continue their search other places than just the negative websites.

Dispute away, buddy, but do NOT use or post private information to do so.

As a reminder to you and other new folks here, our TOU forbid the posting of private information, including emails, texts, message boards, forums, and screenshots from social media accounts like Instagram or Facebook without the explicit consent of the other party or parties.