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Lori Alexander 54: Embracing the Manosphere


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In our house, most of the time, we all are in the kitchen helping with dinner (our teens included so they learn how to cook). It's a nice way to hang out together. When the food is ready, we all serve our own plates. My husband usually follows a "ladies first" policy and lets me and my daughter go first.

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What the fuck is Margaret's problem? Does she not understand that part of ministry is talking to people who aren't Christians? Lori runs a "ministry" so believe it or not it's kinda important to work with individuals who are different from you. Talk about being offended al the time. 

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On 8/23/2018 at 9:30 PM, Imrlgoddess said:

(I really want to put a laugh emoji but my phone screen freezes every time i open them up) 

Oh. I thought it was just my phone doing that. I guess if it isn't just my phone being wonky, I'd better go make a post in the tech forum. I'm glad you mentioned it! ?

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23 minutes ago, Sarah92 said:

What the fuck is Margaret's problem? Does she not understand that part of ministry is talking to people who aren't Christians? Lori runs a "ministry" so believe it or not it's kinda important to work with individuals who are different from you. Talk about being offended al the time. 

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I want to switch Jodie's comment to the point of the wife. What will she get when she serves her husband? And I highly disagree with Magaret, Lori's page isn't either christian nor a women's page. Heck, my dog is more christian than Lori and he lives in a atheist household.

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On 8/25/2018 at 6:31 AM, klein_roeschen said:

I want to switch Jodie's comment to the point of the wife. What will she get when she serves her husband? And I highly disagree with Magaret, Lori's page isn't either christian nor a women's page. Heck, my dog is more christian than Lori and he lives in a atheist household.

First...the answer to the question of "why should he serve you and what does he get in return" is one of those passages of scripture they never read.  Ephesians 5: 25=33 (NIV)

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25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her 26 to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word, 27 and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless. 28 In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. 29 After all, no one ever hated their own body, but they feed and care for their body, just as Christ does the church— 30 for we are members of his body.31 “For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh.”[c] 32 This is a profound mystery—but I am talking about Christ and the church. 33 However, each one of you also must love his wife as he loves himself, and the wife must respect her husband.

 

Second...what would I get when I serve my husband? I get to figure out his carb count! Although, seriously, here it's a lot of mutual service. I fix his plate for dinner, so I can do the carb count, and it gives me great pleasure to serve him a meal I fixed. We serve each other...constantly and without keeping score. That's the way it's supposed to be. 

These idiots have a horribly twisted view of marriage. But you're talking to someone who's survived looking for a new place AND moving w/o a single argument...we must be doing something right. 

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I am a service oriented individual and the fact that I'm a counselor in public health says a lot about who I am as a person. Or at least I think it does. If I was married I'd have no problem serving my husband, in fact I'd probably take great joy out of it. But there's a difference between healthy service and unhealthy servitude. Many in the church, life in general really, can't  always make that distinction. Heck I had to learn the difference because I was so bent on pleasing others. 

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10 hours ago, Free Jana Duggar said:

In our house, most of the time, we all are in the kitchen helping with dinner (our teens included so they learn how to cook). It's a nice way to hang out together. When the food is ready, we all serve our own plates. My husband usually follows a "ladies first" policy and lets me and my daughter go first.

That's pretty much what we do.  If we're eating "at the table" as we say, then we may put the dishes in the middle of the table and serve ourselves.  But we frequently eat off tv trays and serve ourselves from the kitchen.  Mr. Briefly generally tells me to go to first, but often I make both plates.  Whoever gets moving first in the morning gt the first cup of coffee for us both and then the other person gets the second cup for us both.  It works very well.

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6 hours ago, Sarah92 said:

But there's a difference between healthy service and unhealthy servitude. Many in the church, life in general really, can't  always make that distinction. Heck I had to learn the difference because I was so bent on pleasing others. 

This pretty much describes my life as a chronic people-pleaser :(

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Funny - on one of my  FB groups a lady was saying a man asked her the other day if she wasn't worried her sons would have no good strong female role models because she was 'just' a stay at home mom (who homeschools her five boys and runs a 10 acre homestead).   I swear, women just can't win in life.  Everyone is so judgy!  She's beating herself up now over one person's ignorant comment.   Can you imagine how many of Lori's fangirls beat themselves up every day because they can't live up to the Godly Mentor's ideals?    Can you imagine life if we all just figured out most people are doing the best they can and what is best for their families?  

EDTA -  but I guess that isn't God's Perfect Plan - so screw what's best for each family.....   

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31 minutes ago, SweetLaurel said:

Funny - on one of my  FB groups a lady was saying a man asked her the other day if she wasn't worried her sons would have no good strong female role models because she was 'just' a stay at home mom (who homeschools her five boys and runs a 10 acre homestead). 

Wow, doing all that is a perfect example of a strong female! I’d be impressed by her. Not just because I know a little about farm life. The homeschooling is also hard work, if done right.

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Regarding Margaret,  et al...there's this total ignorance of Ephesians five TWENTY-ONE, which precedes all the other verses about order in Ephesians 5.  The basis of their idea of Biblical Womanhood is hierarchy.  In this model, someone always is less, no matter how much they say each is valuable to God and equal in His sight.

UNITY, people.  It's a CIRCLE, not an "Umbrella" or a pyramid or a flowchart.  It's UNION.  Oneness.  When one has a need, the other anticipates it and fills it, and vice versa.  

I do NOT understand why this is so complicated.

The Gospel is so simple a child can understand.

 

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14 hours ago, ladyicantxplain said:

Regarding Margaret,  et al...there's this total ignorance of Ephesians five TWENTY-ONE, which precedes all the other verses about order in Ephesians 5.  The basis of their idea of Biblical Womanhood is hierarchy.  In this model, someone always is less, no matter how much they say each is valuable to God and equal in His sight.

UNITY, people.  It's a CIRCLE, not an "Umbrella" or a pyramid or a flowchart.  It's UNION.  Oneness.  When one has a need, the other anticipates it and fills it, and vice versa.  

I do NOT understand why this is so complicated.

The Gospel is so simple a child can understand.

 

Funny how they conveniently leave that verse isn't it? I think humans have a tendency to want to seek out power and control and that's what's happening here. I got banned after suggesting that Christian's focus far too much on hierarchy and not enough on Jesus rebuking his disciples for fighting over positions of power. I don't actually know much about the New Testament church leadership but I can imagine it wasn't like it is today.  Christian unity is about serving each other and when you read the verses about a man and a wife from a unity perspective it becomes a much fuller picture. To me, it paints a picture of love and respect. If a husband is loving a wife then there will be times he submits to her. His love means he acknowledges her talents, strengths, and ability to make decisions. However, ultimately they are equal partners invested in a relationship. 

One woman commented that if someone disagrees with Lori then they obviously haven't studied the Bible..... Lady, I disagree and I've graduated from two Christian universities, one of which was with a seminary degree (it was clinical mental health counseling with two Bible classes but they don't need to know that *winks*). Before that, it was five years in private Christian schools for elementary. Plus growing up in church and studying Scripture as a hobby. I'd say I've studied the Bible. My former  Bible professors would probably be horrified at Lori's savage butchery of the Bible. Lori's cult reminds me of the Trump cult although they most certainly overlap quite heavily. They both have an easy dismissal of all wrongdoing of their chosen idol and hold them up on this god-like pedestal.  Heavens help us. 

 

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10 hours ago, Sarah92 said:

Funny how they conveniently leave that verse isn't it? I think humans have a tendency to want to seek out power and control and that's what's happening here. I got banned after suggesting that Christian's focus far too much on hierarchy and not enough on Jesus rebuking his disciples for fighting over positions of power. I don't actually know much about the New Testament church leadership but I can imagine it wasn't like it is today.  Christian unity is about serving each other and when you read the verses about a man and a wife from a unity perspective it becomes a much fuller picture. To me, it paints a picture of love and respect. If a husband is loving a wife then there will be times he submits to her. His love means he acknowledges her talents, strengths, and ability to make decisions. However, ultimately they are equal partners invested in a relationship. 

One woman commented that if someone disagrees with Lori then they obviously haven't studied the Bible..... Lady, I disagree and I've graduated from two Christian universities, one of which was with a seminary degree (it was clinical mental health counseling with two Bible classes but they don't need to know that *winks*). Before that, it was five years in private Christian schools for elementary. Plus growing up in church and studying Scripture as a hobby. I'd say I've studied the Bible. My former  Bible professors would probably be horrified at Lori's savage butchery of the Bible. Lori's cult reminds me of the Trump cult although they most certainly overlap quite heavily. They both have an easy dismissal of all wrongdoing of their chosen idol and hold them up on this god-like pedestal.  Heavens help us. 

 

Have you tried to engage Lori using scripture? I did that; I think 2.5 years ago. I got banned from commenting on Facebook. She got really angry really quickly because I based my argument on the Bible and quoted chapter and verse. She didn't know what insults to throw and had to resort to blocking and deleting pretty fast. That same scenario seems to play out any time someone argues from that basis. She can't actually defend her theology at all. 

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20 minutes ago, louisa05 said:

Have you tried to engage Lori using scripture? I did that; I think 2.5 years ago. I got banned from commenting on Facebook. She got really angry really quickly because I based my argument on the Bible and quoted chapter and verse. She didn't know what insults to throw and had to resort to blocking and deleting pretty fast. That same scenario seems to play out any time someone argues from that basis. She can't actually defend her theology at all. 

Yeah, that doesn't work with her. If it's not Titus 2:3-5 or any other of her "pet" scriptures, she won't listen (read) and attempt to comprehend. She doesn't brook with any disagreement at all. @Ken will engage but he makes as much sense as his ditzy wife, he just takes more words to say it. I'll never forget his response to me on 2.0 that 40 minute walks constituted "intimacy". She enjoys being a martyr in her miserable marriage and miserable life. 

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On 8/25/2018 at 7:53 AM, Briefly said:

That's pretty much what we do.  If we're eating "at the table" as we say, then we may put the dishes in the middle of the table and serve ourselves.  But we frequently eat off tv trays and serve ourselves from the kitchen.  Mr. Briefly generally tells me to go to first, but often I make both plates.  Whoever gets moving first in the morning gt the first cup of coffee for us both and then the other person gets the second cup for us both.  It works very well.

Growing up in a missionary Baptist household and family, every Sunday after church we all went over to Grandmother's to have lunch.  My dad and his 3 brothers and a sister went without fail.  So there were at least 25 of us, sometimes as many as 32, depending on who else showed up.  When we got there, the women hurried into the kitchen to warm up the food, the female kids 12 and over set the table, poured drinks out, helped with food prep.  The men sat down to watch the game.  Once lunch was ready, the mom's with little kids 5 and under made plates for the kids.  Soon as that was down the menfolk sat down to eat.  When they finished lunch, the teenagers would start on washing dishes while the women gave the men dessert.  Once that was finally over, the men walked the 15 ft back to the living room to watch the game and the women made plates for all the male children, THEN they could make a plate for themselves with what was left.   This was the example I and all my cousins were given on how relationships worked.  When I was old enough to rebel, I'd just go grab a plate when I knew the food was on the table and serve myself.  I caught hell for it, which didn't stop me from eating from the first go-round.  After my first kid I was of course allowed of course, to make a plate for baby, and eat off that early plate.  When I asked everyone why it was like this, it was explained to me that men ate first because they were entitled to it, and it was women's blessing to serve them.   Yeah, I never waited to eat when I was hungry.  Religion is amazingly consistent in that it's always the men who come out on top, no matter which religion it is.  

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@violynn say what? That's some shit right there. Even in my "trad catholic" days, the kids got served first, then the spouse then me. BUT...nobody started eating first...

When the kids got older it was pretty much a free-for-all. 

That whole "men first" thing pisses me off BEYOND belief. I cured Mr. Xtian of that eating and not helping clean up shit tout suite. I quit cooking. With that bullshit, I'd have gone on strike so fast the men's heads would have spun right off their necks!

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I grew up with extended family with eating habits similar to what @violynn has described.

In my mom's family, men ate first, and then the women and children ate together afterward.

The men were always doing heavy labor on the farm. When my mom was little, they were still using plow horses rather than tractors, and there was a lot of livestock that needed to be cared for. The main meal of the day was at noon. The idea was that the men needed to be in and out fairly quickly so they could go back out and return to work.

That's the explanation my mom always gave me, and it makes sense to a point. They did not have enough space for everyone to eat at the same time, so someone had to go first. I know that I would enjoy eating much more if I didn't have hungry men standing around complaining about having to wait, so I might make the same call. This just became part of family culture, though, so at any family gathering where there too many people for the number of chairs, the men ate first, and then the women and children had their turn.

My mom grew up knowing that women were to wait on the men. She still does that (although my dad no longer lets her). No one ever talked about it in terms of religion, although my grandfather was a first-generation American in a family of staunch German Lutherans. (Side note: When he was a child, his family didn't have enough chairs for all the children. He and several siblings had to stand at the table for meals until the older ones married and left home.) Women did the women's work inside the house as well as some of their own farm chores, such as slopping the pigs, feeding chickens, and gathering eggs, all the gardening, and occasionally helping muck the barn after a load of livestock had been taken to the butcher. (I can personally attest to how NOT fun this is. One day of helping my uncle shovel cow poop was enough to last me the rest of my life.)

I always let my husband get his food before I get mine--not because he's a man and therefore more deserving, but because I do all the cooking and I always wait until everyone else has their food before filling my own plate. Watching other people dish out their food and be excited about what I've prepared is part of what gives me joy in feeding them. 

I've rambled enough now that you'd think I would have made my point by now, but I seem to have forgotten what it was. :)

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It kinda varied when I was growing up. When my dad was home for dinner after work he'd often help cook and then after dinner go into the living room and sit down. Then the kids would clean the table and help with dishes because it was out main chore. So it was more traditional in that way growing up. Now he does a lot of the dishes because my mom's the one who works. However when it comes to making plates it was kinda just whoever gets there first or everything was passed around the table.

At big family gatherings when I was young it was usually children, women, and then men. Now it's more whoever gets there, gets there because we're all grown. The men still tend to linger at the back though. There was never any complaining from the men about not being served because they're manly men. Everyone ate a ton of food regardless so what's the sense in complaining? 

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Serious history nerd digression ahead:

Here's one argument for keeping the men well fed.

I'm researching woman suffrage campaigns in Washington state, pre-statehood, and read an account of an episode where women voted, in two precincts, clear back in 1870, fifty years before women got the vote nationwide. The local campaign was spearheaded by two Washington sisters who had come west by wagon train. Both were married and raising large families on the frontier. Both had husbands who supported their efforts. In a memoir, one sister said about the other:

By the programme the women were to get up a picnic dinner at the schoolhouse where the election was to be held, and directly after, while the officers of election were in good humor (wives will understand the philosophy of this), they were to present their votes. My sister, being a good talker and well informed on all the constitutional, judicial and social phases of the question as well as a good judge of human nature, was able to meet and parry every objection, and give information where needed, so that by the time dinner was over, the judges, as well as everybody else, were in the best of spirits. When the voting was resumed, the women (my sister being the first) handed in their ballots as if they had always been accustomed to voting, and everything passed off pleasantly. One lady, Mrs. Sargent, seventy-two years old, said she thanked the Lord that He had let her live until she could vote. She had often prayed to see the day, and now she was proud to cast her first ballot.

It didn't last, but Washington women did get the vote again in the 1880s and for good (in state elections) in 1910.

 

 

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When I went down to Colombia where my (very) Catholic family lives, the woman and girls were supposed to serve the men. We all ate at the same time, though. I think I was about 12 and if any of the men wanted more food, we would have to stop eating and go all the way into the kitchen and get them more food. I found it quite weird.

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This all makes me very grateful for my husband...

We just got home from vacation.  He went with me to grocery shop/restock the fridge, and then when we came home he made spaghetti/veggies/garlic bread.  While he did that, he encouraged me to go get a quick shower (I was exhausted), and by the time I got out, he had my plate ready.  

By the time I woke up this morning, he had 2 pot roasts and a big bag of carrots in the crock pot.  I made some rice and peas to go with it tonight, and served his plate.

In this family we look after each other.  

When we eat with extended family- Children's plates are made first.  If it's Mother's Day= moms go first.  Father's Day= dads go first.  Any other time it's just whatever...

Ignore my typos...still exhausted.

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3 minutes ago, Koala said:

This all makes me very grateful for my husband...

We just got home from vacation.  He went with me to grocery shop/restock the fridge, and then when we came home he made spaghetti/veggies/garlic bread.  While he did that, he encouraged me to go get a quick shower (I was exhausted), and by the time I got out, he had my plate ready.  

By the time I woke up this morning, he had 2 pot roasts and a big bag of carrots in the crock pot.  I made some rice and peas to go with it tonight, and served his plates.

In this family we look after each other.  

When we eat with extended family- Children's plates are made first.  If it's Mother's Day= mom's go first.  Father's Day= Dad's go first.  Any other time it's just whatever...

We had tacos tonight.  Hubs cooked.  All I had to do was cut up a few things like tomatos and onions, and he did the rest.  He even cleaned up after he got finished.  I don't complain!

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Mr. Xtian voluntarily took me to IKEA today! He even encouraged me to buy a few things I said I liked (he vetoed the couch though...too much $$ right now). 

Let's see, yesterday he took me to get my nails done while he ran some errands (I don't use my car on the weekends, the A/C died again) AND paid for it (something about how I'd spent so much money on the move and groceries and stuff). We had leftovers for dinner...yum for meatloaf sandwiches. Went to the grocery store and picked up a few things I forgot last week and a few things we wanted. 

Yup...call me spoiled rotten...I'll cop to it. 

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