FJ fundie families sending their children to school

[JermajestyDuggar]

Another fundie family has decided to send their children to school. First it was the Shupes, then it was the Jeubs, now it’s the Smiths. In all these instances, the younger children are sent to public school while the older ones didn’t get the chance. 

Do you think this will become more common in the future amongst fundies we talk about on FJ? Are there any families you can see doing this in the future? Do you think this breeds resentment amongst the older children that weren’t given the same opportunities? 

[BonleofJore]

 

I wouldn’t be surprised if Zsu does someday. 

 

Kristina keepsakes (aka Arby’s engagement) did, but she and her husband are young so I don’t think it’s hypocritical.

[JermajestyDuggar]

1 minute ago, BonleofJore said:

I wouldn’t be surprised if Zsu does someday. 

I agree. She’s changed on so many things over the last decade. She’s over it all. 

[CatholicLite]

Ah, jeez. Congratulations for trying to be normal, I guess? I don't think too many families will hop on board the education trend, but maybe send them off to some sort of Christian "school" so they can have a biblical education.

[dripcurl]

I think it would bring resentment if the homeschooling experience was negative for them. My Mom is kinda fundie but nonetheless I loved being homeschooled, but I had much more freedom than the families that we snark on. In my life, I have seen the classic phenomenon of parents easing up on how strict they are with the younger kids, but homeschooling is still in place. My parents didn’t use homeschooling to control us though. 

[bea]

When did the en masse fundie homeschooling begin? I know many of the families tended towards homeschooling, but there was a big push for it by VF and other “authorities” at one point.
I wonder if the larger tendency towards choosing conventional schooling has to do with the fact that a lot of these SOTDRT graduates have found it difficult to make money with no diploma, degree, or formal training. It’s one thing when you’re inheriting a farm or living in a rural area. You’re not likely to lose out on a job due to your spotty educational history. But there seemed to be a bunch of families in areas with perfectly good schools and kids (well, sons) who’d be going out into the general workforce. Not that I have anything but a broad feeling about this, but it does seem like the generation currently spawning was educated at the SOTDRT and a fair percentage have been at a disadvantage due to their “education.”
Also, I’d imagine that by the time you’re on baby 6 with no end in sight, the lure of sending 4 of them off for school every day becomes tempting. I’ve only got two and Sept 4th cannot get here fast enough.

[formergothardite]

23 minutes ago, BonleofJore said:

Kristina keepsakes (aka Arby’s engagement) did, but she and her husband are young so I don’t think it’s hypocritical.

The fact that she bashed public school as practically being evil and then has never retracted what she said strikes me as a tad hypocritical. It is rather like her claim she never said wearing pants was unbiblical when we she did. I think she doesn't want to admit she had a drastic change of mind when it came to life and religion. 

I'm glad her kids are in public school. It was pretty clear she wan't equipped to handle homeschooling lots of children. 

I'm not sure that Erika really, really wanted to put her kids in public school, but the situation was forced on her. She was another who obviously couldn't handle homeschooling lots of children, spoke out against public school but refused to admit that she changed anything. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

I think homeschooling is probably pretty manageable when you only have 5 kids and only homeschooling the oldest three in easy to understand stuff. But when all your kids are being homeschooled and the oldest ones are learning stuff you have no clue how to explain or even understand yourself, I can imagine public school sounds pretty enticing. 

I think that if Sierra keeps having baby after baby, she will probably send her kids to school at some point in the future. I also think it’s completely possible that Whitney Bates will since I don’t think she was ever fundie. 

[EowynW]

32 minutes ago, dripcurl said:

I think it would bring resentment if the homeschooling experience was negative for them. My Mom is kinda fundie but nonetheless I loved being homeschooled, but I had much more freedom than the families that we snark on. In my life, I have seen the classic phenomenon of parents easing up on how strict they are with the younger kids, but homeschooling is still in place. My parents didn’t use homeschooling to control us though. 

I have seen homeschooling done so well and I've loved watching it. My fundie parents did it for religious reasons and it wasn't the greatest, but if we ever have a kid we might join the secular homeschool group here that is homeschooling for all the right reasons. 

[mango_fandango]

I think the Jeubs sent kids to school before the Shupes did but that’s by the by. 

It’d be interesting to see what effect it has on the younger siblings. In the Shupe’s case, most of them were elementary school age when they were first sent; I think their youngest would’ve entered kindergarten then, so if they stay in public school for the rest of their school career they will have spent their entire school lives in public school. I also imagine it’d be easier for them to integrate into the system, and less easy for Brandon (the oldest of the kids who went) who I think went directly into the last year of middle school before going off to high school. He will still have spent most of his formative years in Erika’s SOTDRT. 

[Palimpsest]

28 minutes ago, bea said:

When did the en masse fundie homeschooling begin?

A very good question.  I think it really took hold among Fundies in the 1990s, but it was a movement before then.  VF didn't really kick off until 1998 or so and the Homeschool Movement was well established by then.

It's interesting if Fundies are dropping out of homeschooling, but perhaps some of them are looking at the products of the movement and realising that it is really hard to homeschool well.

As far as the history goes, Rushdooney was very keen on pushing homeschooling, because public schools were ebil, as long ago as the 1960s. 

HSLDA was founded by Michael Farris in 1983, I think, to challenge state laws against homeschooling.

Gregg Harris (as in Josh IKDG and the Rebolution twins' dad) was huge in Christian Homeschooling Movement from the early 1980s.   

Gothard started yapping about it in the 1980s but I'm not sure how hard he pushed homeschooling on his flock back then.

Geoff Botkin was originally involved with Jim McCotter's Great Commission cult (although some might call it a church.)  He was recruited as a student in one of their Blitzes in the early 1970s, and a lot of his thinking about education came from there.  He split with McCotter after the New Zealand caper, and came back to the US to glom onto VF around 2000.

[formergothardite]

7 minutes ago, Palimpsest said:

Gothard started yapping about it in the 1980s but I'm not sure how hard he pushed homeschooling on his flock back then.

ATI was founded in 1985. Maybe 86. He pushed it really hard and almost all the people who were affiliated with IBLP joined ATI. 

Homeschooling might go the way of courtship. I wouldn't be surprised if church schools start to rise again. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

8 minutes ago, formergothardite said:

Homeschooling might go the way of courtship. I wouldn't be surprised if church schools start to rise again. 

I hope so. I know church schools sometimes aren’t much better, but some of these homeschooled kids were really ripped off in their educations. I’m glad the no touch courtships are going out of style. That was a huge mistake. 

But fundies are gonna still fundie. So how are they going to make themselves feel special if their kids are having typical dating relationships and going to Christian or public school? What will they come up with next? 

ETA: and no more frumpers! If you compare a lot of these fundie families to 10 years ago, I would barely recognize them. Actually that would be kind of fun to do!

[VaSportsMom]

1 hour ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

I also think it’s completely possible that Whitney Bates will since I don’t think she was ever fundie. 

I think Whitney and Alyssa will both opt for a Christian school over homeschooling. 

[quiversR4hunting]

53 minutes ago, mango_fandango said:

I think the Jeubs sent kids to school before the Shupes did but that’s by the by. 

It’d be interesting to see what effect it has on the younger siblings. In the Shupe’s case, most of them were elementary school age when they were first sent; I think their youngest would’ve entered kindergarten then, so if they stay in public school for the rest of their school career they will have spent their entire school lives in public school. I also imagine it’d be easier for them to integrate into the system, and less easy for Brandon (the oldest of the kids who went) who I think went directly into the last year of middle school before going off to high school. He will still have spent most of his formative years in Erika’s SOTDRT. 

My daughters have new classmates (last year) that were homeschooled. (4th and 8th grade) and they said that the older kids (7 or 8 in the family) had a very difficult time and they were really behind. the 8th grader was pretty open with my daughter that she felt dumb.  

Another family, when my husband was a principal, homeschooled and then the started getting their kids into the public school in HS. The mom admitted she couldn't teach the tough subjects and by the time my husband left that district all the kids down to grade 3 were in public school. The good news is this family wasn't against community (they were part of the local Catholic church) and they allowed the kids that wanted to go into the military to go. I've lost track of the family now so I don't know how the younger kids faired. The older kids did have a hard adjustment to being in school for a set time period because that was not what they were used to at home.

[Palimpsest]

15 minutes ago, formergothardite said:

ATI was founded in 1985. Maybe 86. He pushed it really hard and almost all the people who were affiliated with IBLP joined ATI. 

Thanks.  I knew he got his start teaching Character crap to "delinquent" youth and then developed it into ATI but couldn't remember when.

As for Kristina, yes she's a hypocrite even though she was young when she started posting here.  Her saving graces are that she is very bright and knows her limitations but her biggest fault is that she can't admit that she was wrong.  I remember that thread when you doggedly presented her with the evidence of her Biblical skirts-wearing and the dangers of public schools.

It's cyclical.  This lot of Biblical Patriarchal fundies thought they were having another Great Awakening, but as the cult-leaders die off or are disgraced it will die out.  The second and third generations are leaving in droves.

They admit it themselves.  It is a crisis!

 

 

[JermajestyDuggar]

I’m trying to think of some fundie families that haven’t changed much in the past 10 years. Jill Rod is one. That woman will never change. And the Arndts are known for never ever changing.

But so many other families have changed. John Morton is kissing his fiancé! Erika Shupe has a nose ring! One of the Seven Farmgirl sisters is wearing shorts! 

[CatholicLite]

I hope that more of them do start going to school but I don't know if too many will. It's good that there is some change, but they're still peddling their hateful agenda and are going to be blathering on about wifely submission till they die.

[formergothardite]

34 minutes ago, Palimpsest said:

I knew he got his start teaching Character crap to "delinquent" youth and then developed it into ATI but couldn't remember when.

It was originally going to be private school materials before he jumped on the homeschool bandwagon. 

36 minutes ago, Palimpsest said:

Her saving graces are that she is very bright and knows her limitations but her biggest fault is that she can't admit that she was wrong. 

Kristina for all that I disagree with her about, is very smart and can handle things way better than most of the other folks we discussed. She put Ken to shame.  But yeah, she can't admit she was wrong or that she changed a lot when it comes to her outlook on life and the Bible. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

Overall I don’t think the Duggars have changed all that much. And I assume it’s because of the show. I always wonder what their lives would look like if they never got a show on TLC.

[Pecansforeveryone]

I wonder if Cross Church has a school attached to it since it's the largest church in Arkansas. If it does, I do have hopes that Izzy and Sammy will attend school there. Likewise, if Jinger and Jeremy get assigned to a church with a school attached, then yes, I think Felicity will attend Christian school. If Jinger and Jeremy end up back in Laredo after MDiv is finished, then I lean towards Felicity will be home schooled. 

[peggyolson]

1 hour ago, Palimpsest said:

Thanks.  I knew he got his start teaching Character crap to "delinquent" youth and then developed it into ATI but couldn't remember when.

As for Kristina, yes she's a hypocrite even though she was young when she started posting here.  Her saving graces are that she is very bright and knows her limitations but her biggest fault is that she can't admit that she was wrong.  I remember that thread when you doggedly presented her with the evidence of her Biblical skirts-wearing and the dangers of public schools.

It's cyclical.  This lot of Biblical Patriarchal fundies thought they were having another Great Awakening, but as the cult-leaders die off or are disgraced it will die out.  The second and third generations are leaving in droves.

They admit it themselves.  It is a crisis!

 

 

Oh my god this is truly the most wonderful thing I could have found in the last half hour of a very busy work day. time to turn off my brain and watch this!

[CatholicLite]

2 hours ago, Palimpsest said:

Thanks.  I knew he got his start teaching Character crap to "delinquent" youth and then developed it into ATI but couldn't remember when.

As for Kristina, yes she's a hypocrite even though she was young when she started posting here.  Her saving graces are that she is very bright and knows her limitations but her biggest fault is that she can't admit that she was wrong.  I remember that thread when you doggedly presented her with the evidence of her Biblical skirts-wearing and the dangers of public schools.

It's cyclical.  This lot of Biblical Patriarchal fundies thought they were having another Great Awakening, but as the cult-leaders die off or are disgraced it will die out.  The second and third generations are leaving in droves.

They admit it themselves.  It is a crisis!

 

 

This is truly the most dramatic thing I've ever watched. bless this.

[Palimpsest]

1 hour ago, CatholicLite said:

I hope that more of them do start going to school but I don't know if too many will. It's good that there is some change, but they're still peddling their hateful agenda and are going to be blathering on about wifely submission till they die.

I think the homeschooling movement adherents, who are only a subset of extreme Christian Fundamentalism, are falling away gradually.  They are beginning to see it is hard work and not easy to do successfully.

Some may start sending their children to private Fundamentalist Christian schools, and some of those are made out of the stuff of your worst nightmares and provide sucky educations.  Some may start sending their children to public schools and try to counter that secular influence by becoming even more rigid and objectionable in their Fundie beliefs.

The bottom line is that this Quiverfull, homeschool only, living apart, Patrirchal lifestyle is not sustainable in the long run.  They are breeding large families that they can't afford to feed properly, the second generation are less well educated than their parents, and the third generation will struggle even more financially and educationally.  They already have a gaggle of women approaching middle age, and not happy because Daddy hasn't found Prince Charming for them yet.  I think it will burn out eventually.  Not tomorrow.

Just like the Shakers, except for the opposite reason.  The Shakers were so pure that they didn't allow sex at all, even between married couples!  Once the communities were no longer to allowed to adopt scores of destitute children they started dying out. There are only two Shakers left today after about 3 centuries.  It might take at least another 200 years to stamp out IBLP.

The Duggars and Bateses are outliers.  Just because they are the poster families for IBLP, and not hurting for money because of the TV shows, they will hang on a bit longer.  Once the TV shows go away, and reality hits, they will change more openly I think.

34 minutes ago, peggyolson said:

Oh my god this is truly the most wonderful thing I could have found in the last half hour of a very busy work day. time to turn off my brain and watch this!

Lol. The Botkins and VF Royalty at their best.  Enjoy but don't believe their statistics.

[Palimpsest]

1 hour ago, Pecansforeveryone said:

I wonder if Cross Church has a school attached to it since it's the largest church in Arkansas. If it does, I do have hopes that Izzy and Sammy will attend school there. Likewise, if Jinger and Jeremy get assigned to a church with a school attached, then yes, I think Felicity will attend Christian school. If Jinger and Jeremy end up back in Laredo after MDiv is finished, then I lean towards Felicity will be home schooled. 

No need to wonder.  Cross Church does have a school attached.  http://www.shilohsaints.org/

All the teachers are fully professing Born Again members of Cross Church, and all Cross Church employees are required to send their children there.  There is a slight danger that your child will be exposed to heathens.  Only half of students' families are fully signed up members of the Borg so some bad ideas may sneak in.