JinJer and Felicity 43: No Homebirth, No Problem

[Carm_88]

When my Mom was pregnant with me and then with my brother six years later, her only option for giving birth was two hours away. She went into labour early on Halloween with me and gave birth on the morning of the first. I came out arse first, started screaming and didn't stop for months. Not a big deal, Dad drove her in.

With my brother, an ambulance had to be called because she went into labour during one of the worst storms of that winter and thought that she may give birth in an ambulance. Fun times. She didn't, she gave birth in hospital and my brother was whisked away with fluid in his lungs.

Women have to do what they are comfortable with and if San Antonio was the best choice for them, then it was.

[cascarones]

They also spend a lot of time in San Antonio in general, both the Vuolos who have a lot of friends here and the Duggars themselves. Some of it has been for conferences, book tours, but they seem to like vacationing there as well. It makes sense, cheap city, lots of things to do with the various theme parks. I keep seeing signs for one of the annual women's Christian conferences, Chosen, but a glance tells me it might be not conservative enough.

[Satan'sFortress]

3 hours ago, PlentyOfJesusFishInTheSea said:

I never heard of birth centres before the Duggerlings starting having kids. I just looked it up there's only two in Ontario (Toronto and Ottawa). I have eleventy zillion friends with kids but they've all done hospital or home birth with midwife, as far as  I know.

Just because I'm curious, I'm wondering if anyone here wants to share their experiences with birth centres? Awesomely homey and you don't have to clean the sheets? Cheaper than a hospital? Some other advantage I'm not thinking of?

Also I love this incredibly practical guide to Ontario birth centres: http://www.cmo.on.ca/public/ontario-birth-centres/

The independent birth center in my area is long-established.  I was going there for regular, well-woman care long before I was married or thinking about having children.  It is in a converted three-story Victorian-style house, steps away from a major hospital.  I chose to give birth at that hospital, using midwives, for my first birth.  I ended up being induced and had a lot of medical interventions. I was never fully comfortable at the hospital (it was fine---more my own hang-ups FTR.) So, the second time, I chose the birth center.  I knew all the midwives and felt confident about their care.  They spent as long as I needed/wanted at each appointment and really took the time to know me and my own specific concerns.  They always "listened" to my older son's tummy with the Doppler at each visit (he pretended that he had a baby in there, too.)  I got all the regular tests and would have been referred to a doctor for any red flags. The exam rooms were very standard, medical rooms, similar to what you'd find at a doctor's office, but the birth rooms were very homey.  Hospitals at the time didn't offer that (maybe most do now?)  I liked being surrounded by supportive women while in labor.  I like being able to walk around, move as I wanted to, eat, drink, etc.  Nobody was telling me when to push, or counting to ten while I pushed (again, maybe hospitals no longer do this?) I loved being able to go home 4 hours after giving birth---I wanted to be in my own bed!

And yes, it was much cheaper than my hospital delivery.

Incidentally, that location where I gave birth is closing this weekend!  They are moving to a much bigger location but having a farewell party for all the families who have given birth there over the years.  I will be bringing my now 16-year old baby with me to say goodbye! 

[Pecansforeveryone]

San Antonio is also the site of their "mother" church if I am not mistaken. Jeremy's church in Laredo is a much smaller "plant" of a larger church in San Antonio if I understand correctly.

[HarleyQuinn]

This is a Jinger face.

[Rachel333]

Yesterday Jeremy linked to this piece on the Statement on Social Justice website.

From that piece:

Quote

That our society is permeated by an entitlement mentality should be manifestly evident to all. Most people, it seems, believe themselves to be victims in one way or another and are, therefore, entitled to various benefits even if said benefits are not earned and come at the expense of others.

This entitlement mentality is both the foundation of and fuel for the social justice movement that is sweeping through evangelical churches. [1] The evangelical church, though, should be the one bastion in which any sense of entitlement and victimhood finds no quarter.

Upon being confronted with sin, human nature’s inclination is to blame shift. Upon being confronted with her sin, Eve blamed the snake. Adam blamed God. Cain deflected. We, as their spiritual progeny, do the same. We all have the tendency to point the finger at someone else to explain away our own sin or our lot in life if it is not to our satisfaction. We all want to be innocent victims rather than morally accountable.

One of the subtlest and yet, left unchecked, deadliest dangers of the social justice movement is that it fosters in people the idea that they have been unfairly treated and are entitled to preferential treatment to compensate for this inequity. If we look hard enough, most of us could find someone or something to blame for not having what we want to have.

 

[Rachel333]

I'm reading some of the other articles now.

On the evils of "woke:"

Quote

African-Americans are encouraged and even expected to be “woke” if they are going to understand racism for what it really is. But for a white person to be considered “woke” is taken by many as a badge of honor. It is a sign that despite his or her place of privilege he or she has come to see things from the perspective of those who have been or are being systematically oppressed.

The great problem of the idea of being woke is that it is built on a presupposition that does not like to be challenged or even questioned. It presumes that racism in America is systemic and institutional in the sense that the whole society is built upon and organized around principles and practices that discriminate against black people. The only way to be considered woke is to accept that as a fact. To question or challenge that assumption is to be culturally blind at best and at worst, to be a racist.

Quote

That injustice is always the result of sin. It is not, however, always the result of racism. If the presuppositions of “wokeness” are uncritically accepted, then every injustice against a black person can be attributed to systemic racism. This will inevitably lead to wrong solutions being applied to real problems because some acts of injustice may have nothing to do with race at all. Furthermore, it will tend to create a cultural context where real racism gets downplayed or overlooked because unjustified accusations of racism are hurled about indiscriminately.

I'll say it: if Jeremy supports this crap then I do think he is a racist.

Here's one about how "social justice is an attack on the sufficiency of scripture."

Quote

Although he was unsuccessful as a professional athlete, Kaepernick has become the face of a movement and is now one of the leading faces of the Nike corporation. How did Kaepernick receive a lucrative contract from Nike? It wasn’t because of his performance on the football field, it was because of the fact that he took a knee as a victim to “systemic racism.”

There is power in victimhood, and many women have come to recognize that reality. Following closely behind racism is the oppression of women. Within evangelicalism there has been a sudden surge among women who want to have their voices heard too. More than that, they expect absolute equality of roles and position across denominational lines. This trend for women under the banner of social justice was fueled by Beth Moore who wrote an article titled, “A Letter to My Brothers” at the beginning of this summer. In the article she complained of mistreatment and systemic oppression within the evangelical community.

Quote

Just like that—a new wave of “women empowerment” and “women equality” was fueled. It was one more example of how to use victimhood as a means of moving forward into greater success. I’m not at all suggesting that people haven’t mistreated or misrepresented Beth Moore in person or online, but the victim card is the new method of instant success. Beth Moore’s move was one that not only helped her, but it added a great deal of momentum behind conversations regarding how women should serve in evangelical conferences, in denominational positions, and within the local church. Suddenly, a large percentage of people within evangelical circles are rethinking the historic position of complementarianism.

Quote

Other groups are quickly following behind seeking to get a seat at the social justice table as well. One such group is the “LGBT Christian” group who claims to be oppressed within evangelicalism and is demanding that we redeem queer culture (the language used in the recent Revoice conference) and embrace them as brothers and sisters in Christ. There is no avoiding the issues in the social justice agenda—and it quickly becomes a slippery slope that leads to disaster. Many different voices are claiming to be oppressed and are demanding an apology for their victim status.

Social Justice claims to run to the aid of the oppressed and the victims of discrimination, racism, and other evils of society. What Christian doesn’t want to help the oppressed? What Christian wants to turn their back upon the evils of discrimination and racism? The problem with the social justice movement is that it leads to oppression rather than liberation. Social justice fuels the idea of victim status while promoting false ideas of systemic racism and systemic oppression of women within evangelicalism. Finally, social justice often uses political methods and cultural ideas as the answer to these problems rather than the sufficient Word of God.

And this one directly compares social justice advocates to Hitler.

Quote

That social justice movement penetrated to the masses. The activist organized a powerful, promising group of politicians. He formed a group to liberate his people and to rebuild his country. And five years later in 1925, he wrote a book called Mein Kampf. The activist’s name was Adolf Hitler.

Adolf Hitler and the National Socialist German Workers’ Party were a threat to Jews because social justice is a threat to human rights.

Quote

When I talk to pro-choice people about abortion, I use a human rights argument. I ask them:

Do you believe in human rights? They answer, yes. Then I ask, who deserves human rights? They say, humans. Then I ask, if two people reproduce, what will their offspring be? They say, human. Then I ask, can something grow without being alive? They answer, no.

Then finally, I ask them, isn’t abortion a human rights violation? By that point, they’ve already admitted pre-born babies are living humans, and that compels them to agree that abortion is a human rights violation.

From this one:

Quote

People supposedly belong to the oppressed group or the sinfully privileged group not because of their real-life experiences; not necessarily because of anything they have said or done; not because of the content of their character—but solely because of the color of their skin. 

Yeah, that's kind of the point.

Quote

White evangelicals are told they need to repent for sins committed by their ancestors. Black evangelicals are made to feel like hapless victims who have every right to resent any privilege enjoyed by others. Members of both groups are scolded if they don’t affirm and adopt the narrative. We’re all told that “racial reconciliation” cannot even really begin until everyone in the church affirms and embraces this particular notion of “social justice” as a matter of first importance—perhaps even a “gospel issue.”

Quote

Instead of promoting any true and meaningful reconciliation, the bitter fruit of this movement has been anger, resentment, and vengeful separation. What happened? I thought we were together for the gospel. All the years of fellowship and brotherhood I have shared and enjoyed with brothers whose melanin count happens to be higher than mine have suddenly given way to estrangement, accusations, and demands for either repentance or separation. This did not arise out any personal strife that occurred between us. It seems very clear that the beliefs and attitudes that are fueling this movement are drawn from harmful identity politics and Critical Race Theory—not from the Word of God.

Quote

* Intersectionality is the idea that victimhood and oppression occur on a variety of levels, and these may overlap or intersect. So a single individual may have multiple claims to victim status. Since victimhood is what is supposed to validate a personal opinion in these postmodern times, the more layers of oppression someone can claim, the more entitled that person is to speak about issues such as justice and racial discrimination, power and oppression, privilege and inequality. In other words, victimhood is now seen as empowerment, and the more privilege a person is thought to enjoy, the less authority that person has to render an opinion.

 

[Pecansforeveryone]

Wow, these "Reformed" type fundies really are as breathtakingly awful as I remember. I am still sickened by John Piper's advice to abused wives to stay and "just endure getting smacked for a night. The obscenity of it all is these groups scream the loudest about "persecution" in the most trivial of matters. Red coffee cups at Starbucks and Happy Holidays instead of Merry Christmas, anyone? These worthless fucks do not get to have it both ways. No, you don't get to slam legitimatley oppressed groups for finally pointing out the injustice in the system while crying like babies over non existent persecution on your end. 

[VeryNikeSeamstress]

They live in a country that was built on the genocide and slavery of people of colour, but that history is irrelevant because Jesus. Ignorant fucks. I hope they suffocate from burying their heads in the sand.

Sorry Jeremy. Cute baby pics won't erase your ugly beliefs. As much as I want to like Jinger, she's guilty by association.

[nickelodeon]

Quote

One of the subtlest and yet, left unchecked, deadliest dangers of the social justice movement is that it fosters in people the idea that they have been unfairly treated and are entitled to preferential treatment to compensate for this inequity. If we look hard enough, most of us could find someone or something to blame for not having what we want to have.

Quote

It was one more example of how to use victimhood as a means of moving forward into greater success. I’m not at all suggesting that people haven’t mistreated or misrepresented Beth Moore in person or online, but the victim card is the new method of instant success.

How the fuck can you nod your head and sign your name on this shit when your wife is a CSA victim????

[Rachel333]

They also all love to consider themselves victims of anti-Christian, anti-male, and anti-white prejudice. A lot of those articles are just them whining about how they're seen as privileged. They only seem to think it's bad to see yourself as a victim if you're a minority.

[Rik_Bik]

I’m related to people who believe this exact same stuff, hear it whenever I see them, and it still shocks me when it’s laid out like this in the open. This is pure willful ignorance of history and the present mixed with a lovely dash of racism, sexism, and homophobia. But at least Jinger wears pants now 

[SilverBeach]

Fuck Jeremy, asshole.

[Jinder Roles]

The article Jeremy shared is absolutely vile. 

And doesn’t make complete sense. The writer asserts that fighting for social justice is a false “victimhood” and a sign of entitlement and shifting blame.

By that logic people who have had unspeakable violence perpetuated against them are wrong for wanting to be treated like a human being and expecting some level of mutual safety and dignity. The violence is justified and they are deserving of it because God has declared them depraved and worthless. 

Fuck you Jeremy, from the bottom of my heart. 

Anybody got any blood pressure tablets??? 

[nastyhobbitses]

Well, Jeremy can go get fucked with a Saguaro cactus. And Jinger can go wear pants made out of poison ivy if she believes this shit too. 

[bal maiden]

None of what they’re saying actually makes a convincing argument that systemic racism is not a real thing. They say why they don’t like the effects of perceiving the world this way - all this bollocks about ‘victimhood’ - but It does not disprove structural racism and sexism through finding (what they perceive to be) the effects problematic. 

[Iamtheway]

5 hours ago, Rachel333 said:

I'm reading some of the other articles now.

On the evils of "woke:"

I'll say it: if Jeremy supports this crap then I do think he is a racist.

Here's one about how "social justice is an attack on the sufficiency of scripture."

And this one directly compares social justice advocates to Hitler.

From this one:

Yeah, that's kind of the point.

 

Wow. We really need an eye roll reaction for texts like these. My eyes are so far back my head they might never find their way back out again. 

I don’t even know where to start with this shit. I’ll just leave this here:  

[QuiverDance]

On 9/17/2018 at 5:32 AM, SassyPants said:

The mittens are about controlling behaviors!

About 95% of partenting is about controlling behavior because children lack the capacity to control it.  It is just about heartbreaking when tiny babies scratch themselves. 

[Rachel333]

7 hours ago, Pecansforeveryone said:

Wow, these "Reformed" type fundies really are as breathtakingly awful as I remember. I am still sickened by John Piper's advice to abused wives to stay and "just endure getting smacked for a night. The obscenity of it all is these groups scream the loudest about "persecution" in the most trivial of matters. Red coffee cups at Starbucks and Happy Holidays instead of Merry Christmas, anyone? These worthless fucks do not get to have it both ways. No, you don't get to slam legitimatley oppressed groups for finally pointing out the injustice in the system while crying like babies over non existent persecution on your end. 

Those neo-Calvinists are some of the Christians I find the most irritating. On top of the horrible beliefs (which tend to be better disguised by a modern veneer than most of the other fundies we discuss), they are so incredibly smug and enamored by their belief in their own intelligence. I've had so many bad experiences with those guys and Jeremy seems just like them so he tends to bother me most of the Duggar sons-in-law. 

[Snarkasarus Rex]

I don’t have a strong feeling either way about using mittens at her age, but my kids would have been all kinds of pissed if I put mittens on them at 2 months.  I used mittens for a month, tops.

[justmy2cents]

The mittens are off in Jinger's latest Instagram post (which I don't know how to post from my phone.)

[bal maiden]

Yeah but one hand is out of the shot, so she definitely has 6 fingers on that hand! ?

[just_ordinary]

These quotes are great to use whenever the next of them whines on SM about something. Beating them with their own weapons could be so much fun.

I wonder if they would even realise it- I guess about 50% just signed without reading everything (but probably would agree with it if they had).

Too bad Derick didn’t sign (as far as I am aware). He loves to whine and portraits himself as victim a lot.

[VelociRapture]

7 hours ago, VeryNikeSeamstress said:

They live in a country that was built on the genocide and slavery of people of colour, but that history is irrelevant because Jesus. Ignorant fucks. I hope they suffocate from burying their heads in the sand.

Sorry Jeremy. Cute baby pics won't erase your ugly beliefs. As much as I want to like Jinger, she's guilty by association.

She’s guilty not because of association, but because she consistently fails to speak out against this disgusting rhetoric. If she were publicly calling him out - even in an extremely mild way - then it would be another matter entirely. Unfortunately, her parents purposely raised her to be a piece of submissive arm candy for her husband to show off whenever he wants and Jinger seems more than content to (publicly) believe whatever Jeremy says she should. In my opinion, this does not bode well for Felicity’s future. 

And while I’m disgusted by this I’m also kind of glad he keeps posting and supporting this crap because it makes it impossible for people to continue viewing them through rose colored glasses. At this point they're simply more polished and well spoken versions of Derick and Jill. 

[SilverBeach]

3 minutes ago, VelociRapture said:

Unfortunately, her parents purposely raised her to be a piece of submissive arm candy for her husband to show off whenever he wants

And she's good with that.