JinJer and Felicity 43: No Homebirth, No Problem

[Buzzard]

2 hours ago, allthegoodnamesrgone said:

I'm wondering if the birthcenter they choose was a "Christian" center that isn't exactly accredited, or um a more white hospital?  It is one thing to lead heathen brown people to God but another thing, entirely, to have one telling you what to do (i.e. Hispanic/Latinx doctors and nurses).  I know a few folks whom you never would have known they were racists until Obama got elected and the thought of a black man being in charge of them was just too much to bear.

I dont knock their choice to travel at all and dont think there were any racial undertones.  Jeremy said that they wanted to be close to a hospital, and this center was close to both a hospital and a children's hospital.  I made a similar choice with my son, choosing a larger hospital that would require me to drive past 3 other hospitals because the one I wanted had a better NICU just in case.  I'm just lucky that I'm in a major city and that choice only added 15 minutes to my drive.

[OldFadedStar]

I'm 15 weeks pregnant and the hospital I chose is probably the furthest away out of all the other options. But it's the top rated hospital in the state, has the lowest c section rates around, has a level 3 nicu and I can use a midwife to deliver with the capability of having all the medical interventions right there if i need them.

[Mama Mia]

8 hours ago, SorenaJ said:

So according to Jinger, she originally wanted to give birth at a midwife led birth centre 2.5 hours away. Idk about there, but in the UK you can only give birth at a birth centre if you’re not induced and labour starts spontaneously. Did she plan on driving 2.5 hour in labour? I can see some flaws in that birth plan. 

 

In my area, you can be induced at the birth center. 

[ItsaJjungle]

I am so flummoxed at all the mitten-hate. I have six kids. You know when I bought my first set of baby mittens? For baby #6. I resisted for the first month, but she absolutely cannot keep her hands from her face, and once she grips, she can’t let go. When she got a bloody scratch right across her eye and down her cheek, I caved and bought the stupid mittens. I trim her nails regularly and she still scratches. I think she may be part cat. I have had strangers ask me if they are necessary...which is rude. I’m actually doing it because I care. She will grab her ear and not let go until it’s bright red. She has reflux and gets congested, which causes her to claw at her face to try and rub it. 

Just because “you” never used mittens doesn’t mean they aren’t needed for another baby. I don’t see any reason to judge about this unless you hear directly that it’s a “controlling tool”. The headband while sleeping is a little weird though. Those things slide down and can end up in their mouth. Even when you’re in the same room. Ask me how I know  

[metheglyn]

In the CO episode, Jeremy said they picked that birth center at least partially because it was only minutes from several hospitals including a children's hospital.  In Jinger's Counting Now birth special (the TLC short episodes), she does end up delivering at the hospital instead of the birth center, but she still does so in San Antonio AND is assisted by the same midwife (Alisa) who they talked to and was being see by at the birth center. In fact, she's one of the people talking in the car when they're on the way *to* the hospital, according to the closed captions on the recording (they indicate who the speaker is). 

In the first Counting Now special, just after she's shown being checked by the midwife and the midwife talks about trying to keep the baby smaller and closer to it's due date (plus a Jessa TH about big Duggar babies), Jinger says "Some of my sisters have been through a bit of a tough time with labor and delivery, so I have decided just to go ahead and switch to the hospital. I think that kind of just puts me at ease knowing, okay, if I need anything it's here, and I think it'll help me be more relaxed in the long run." 

Since in the actual episode Alisa specifically said that she'd have an unmedicated birth at the birth center and she did ultimately end up with an epidural and other meds, I think she made the right choice for herself and her baby to change to the hospital. 

Interestingly, since they ended up deciding to induce her, they had already gone to San Antonio prior to Jinger going into labor, so no, they didn't drive to San Antonio while Jinger was in active labor.

They saw Alisa at the birth center, had Jinger checked over, talked about exercise and herbs, and Jinger said "the appointment went very well, very encouraging, the plan is just to continue tonight with more herbs (?!), walking, and if things move along, then just going to the hospital, I think, and starting some inducing." Then they show Jinger and Jeremy (plus Jeremy's parents and Michelle) prepping in a hotel room (presumably the next day) about to head to the hospital to "start the process of inducing labor".  

As they're driving to the hotel Michelle and Alisa appear to be in the car with them. You hear Michelle talking to Jinger, and then, according to the captions, Alisa says "So you know which entrance to go in."  She's later shown in the hospital room with Jinger, so she's still getting help from the same birth center, just not AT the birth center. 

Alisa's also right there with Jinger when she checks into the hospital. (And then gives her hospital bracelet some epic side-eye.)

And Alisa also appears to be there in a at least a semi-professional sense, since she's in the hospital room with them wearing a namebadge from the birth center with her name and LM, CPM on it, talking about what the hospital staff are doing to "stimulate labor" although whether she's strictly-speaking allowed to actually "practice" in a hospital is iffy. The letters on her badge  means she's both a Certified Professional Midwife and a Licensed Midwife.  Technically, that's the same certification as Jill has, but she's also been licensed to practice by the state of Texas (so is legally permitted to deliver babies in Texas).

 

 

 

[HereticHick]

5 hours ago, allthegoodnamesrgone said:

I'm wondering if the birthcenter they choose was a "Christian" center that isn't exactly accredited, or um a more white hospital?  It is one thing to lead heathen brown people to God but another thing, entirely, to have one telling you what to do (i.e. Hispanic/Latinx doctors and nurses). 

They live in Laredo, which is 95% Hispanic.

Ninety-Five Percent. 

If Jinge and Jeremy couldn't handle being around Hispanics, they would not be living in Laredo.

[Elvis Presby]

6 hours ago, ItsaJjungle said:

I am so flummoxed at all the mitten-hate. I have six kids. You know when I bought my first set of baby mittens? For baby #6. I resisted for the first month, but she absolutely cannot keep her hands from her face, and once she grips, she can’t let go. When she got a bloody scratch right across her eye and down her cheek, I caved and bought the stupid mittens. I trim her nails regularly and she still scratches. I think she may be part cat. I have had strangers ask me if they are necessary...which is rude. I’m actually doing it because I care. She will grab her ear and not let go until it’s bright red. She has reflux and gets congested, which causes her to claw at her face to try and rub it. 

Just because “you” never used mittens doesn’t mean they aren’t needed for another baby. I don’t see any reason to judge about this unless you hear directly that it’s a “controlling tool”. The headband while sleeping is a little weird though. Those things slide down and can end up in their mouth. Even when you’re in the same room. Ask me how I know  

I don't understand the mitten hate either.  I only have 4 kids.  ONLY 4.  Only 2 of my babies scratched at their face, but it was transient.  I'm not seeing how using mittens on a 2 month old baby is a gateway into fundie female submission.

The bows on the head though!  My oldest was born in 1990 and the headband/bows were just coming around then.  They looked like garters to me.  No way I would put that on my sweet baby's head!  She had the least hair and is the fairest of all my babies.  When I wanted to put a bow in her little bit of hair, it was a process.  Maybe the bow on the head was just for the picture.  I hope so.  

[Georgiana]

One of my favorite reoccurring FJ thread drifts is the nefarious undertones of baby mittens  They're SUPER common in my circles, so I don't personally see anything wrong with them, and that's honestly probably why the Duggars use them: they're used to them, their friends do it, and there's no real harm in doing it.

Heck, one of my friends' siblings wore socks/mittens on her hands until school age.  Doctor's orders while they were figuring out her various medical issues that frequently resulted in eczema.  Did she like it? No.  Was it heartbreaking sometimes to watch her have to have her hands covered when she just wanted to be a normal kid?  Yes.  But no lasting damage, and she's the exact opposite of "sweet and submissive", even with her extended mitten wearing.  In fact, I think the fact that she basically grew up always having to assert her desire for usable fingers made her comfortable advocating for herself even against authority and strong in her defense of her own wants/needs.  

[Mama Mia]

7 hours ago, metheglyn said:

In the CO episode, Jeremy said they picked that birth center at least partially because it was only minutes from several hospitals including a children's hospital.  In Jinger's Counting Now birth special (the TLC short episodes), she does end up delivering at the hospital instead of the birth center, but she still does so in San Antonio AND is assisted by the same midwife (Alisa) who they talked to and was being see by at the birth center. In fact, she's one of the people talking in the car when they're on the way *to* the hospital, according to the closed captions on the recording (they indicate who the speaker is). 

In the first Counting Now special, just after she's shown being checked by the midwife and the midwife talks about trying to keep the baby smaller and closer to it's due date (plus a Jessa TH about big Duggar babies), Jinger says "Some of my sisters have been through a bit of a tough time with labor and delivery, so I have decided just to go ahead and switch to the hospital. I think that kind of just puts me at ease knowing, okay, if I need anything it's here, and I think it'll help me be more relaxed in the long run." 

Since in the actual episode Alisa specifically said that she'd have an unmedicated birth at the birth center and she did ultimately end up with an epidural and other meds, I think she made the right choice for herself and her baby to change to the hospital. 

Interestingly, since they ended up deciding to induce her, they had already gone to San Antonio prior to Jinger going into labor, so no, they didn't drive to San Antonio while Jinger was in active labor.

They saw Alisa at the birth center, had Jinger checked over, talked about exercise and herbs, and Jinger said "the appointment went very well, very encouraging, the plan is just to continue tonight with more herbs (?!), walking, and if things move along, then just going to the hospital, I think, and starting some inducing." Then they show Jinger and Jeremy (plus Jeremy's parents and Michelle) prepping in a hotel room (presumably the next day) about to head to the hospital to "start the process of inducing labor".  

As they're driving to the hotel Michelle and Alisa appear to be in the car with them. You hear Michelle talking to Jinger, and then, according to the captions, Alisa says "So you know which entrance to go in."  She's later shown in the hospital room with Jinger, so she's still getting help from the same birth center, just not AT the birth center. 

Alisa's also right there with Jinger when she checks into the hospital. (And then gives her hospital bracelet some epic side-eye.)

And Alisa also appears to be there in a at least a semi-professional sense, since she's in the hospital room with them wearing a namebadge from the birth center with her name and LM, CPM on it, talking about what the hospital staff are doing to "stimulate labor" although whether she's strictly-speaking allowed to actually "practice" in a hospital is iffy. The letters on her badge  means she's both a Certified Professional Midwife and a Licensed Midwife.  Technically, that's the same certification as Jill has, but she's also been licensed to practice by the state of Texas (so is legally permitted to deliver babies in Texas).

 

 

 

I don’t know the rules in Texas, but 2 of my daughters had Midwives as their primary Health Care Provider at their ( planned ) hospital births. One had an epidural, one didn’t. I don’t know their midwives exact certifications. I know at least one had an office that had an affiliation  with an OB.  My daughter met the OB at one visit, just so she’d know who she was if there were complications.  One was in California, one in Oregon. 

[ViolaSebastian]

1 hour ago, Georgiana said:

One of my favorite reoccurring FJ thread drifts is the nefarious undertones of baby mittens  

Plus, it's resulted in my current favorite Duggar conspiracy theory--that Felicity has six fingers on one hand and they're hiding it. How on earth the poster came to this conclusion is beyond me, but it's so ludicrous and completely unfounded that I love it. 

[Knight of Ni]

Maybe Felicity constantly has her hand in a position where she’s flipping everyone off and they want to hide it. 

[ViolaSebastian]

And since we're close, may I be the first to suggest JinJer and Felicity 44: The Case of the Nefarious Hand Mittens?

[sleepy_doggos]

And since we're close, may I be the first to suggest JinJer and Felicity 44: The Case of the Nefarious Hand Mittens?

It's so Nancy Drew, I love it!

[fluffernutter]

9 hours ago, metheglyn said:

In the CO episode, Jeremy said they picked that birth center at least partially because it was only minutes from several hospitals including a children's hospital.  In Jinger's Counting Now birth special (the TLC short episodes), she does end up delivering at the hospital instead of the birth center, but she still does so in San Antonio AND is assisted by the same midwife (Alisa) who they talked to and was being see by at the birth center. In fact, she's one of the people talking in the car when they're on the way *to* the hospital, according to the closed captions on the recording (they indicate who the speaker is). 

In the first Counting Now special, just after she's shown being checked by the midwife and the midwife talks about trying to keep the baby smaller and closer to it's due date (plus a Jessa TH about big Duggar babies), Jinger says "Some of my sisters have been through a bit of a tough time with labor and delivery, so I have decided just to go ahead and switch to the hospital. I think that kind of just puts me at ease knowing, okay, if I need anything it's here, and I think it'll help me be more relaxed in the long run." 

Since in the actual episode Alisa specifically said that she'd have an unmedicated birth at the birth center and she did ultimately end up with an epidural and other meds, I think she made the right choice for herself and her baby to change to the hospital. 

Interestingly, since they ended up deciding to induce her, they had already gone to San Antonio prior to Jinger going into labor, so no, they didn't drive to San Antonio while Jinger was in active labor.

They saw Alisa at the birth center, had Jinger checked over, talked about exercise and herbs, and Jinger said "the appointment went very well, very encouraging, the plan is just to continue tonight with more herbs (?!), walking, and if things move along, then just going to the hospital, I think, and starting some inducing." Then they show Jinger and Jeremy (plus Jeremy's parents and Michelle) prepping in a hotel room (presumably the next day) about to head to the hospital to "start the process of inducing labor".  

As they're driving to the hotel Michelle and Alisa appear to be in the car with them. You hear Michelle talking to Jinger, and then, according to the captions, Alisa says "So you know which entrance to go in."  She's later shown in the hospital room with Jinger, so she's still getting help from the same birth center, just not AT the birth center. 

Alisa's also right there with Jinger when she checks into the hospital. (And then gives her hospital bracelet some epic side-eye.)

And Alisa also appears to be there in a at least a semi-professional sense, since she's in the hospital room with them wearing a namebadge from the birth center with her name and LM, CPM on it, talking about what the hospital staff are doing to "stimulate labor" although whether she's strictly-speaking allowed to actually "practice" in a hospital is iffy. The letters on her badge  means she's both a Certified Professional Midwife and a Licensed Midwife.  Technically, that's the same certification as Jill has, but she's also been licensed to practice by the state of Texas (so is legally permitted to deliver babies in Texas).

 

 

 

My experience with a birth center was that the midwife will follow you, whether you give birth at the birth center or end up in the hospital. Even if you need an ob for a difficult birth or a c-section, you have that support and the birth center midwives have privileges at the local hospital/hospitals. It really is a great option for someone who is interested in a natural birth who still wants the close hospital/ob back-up. Now if you're a gal who wants the epidural in the parking lot (me, kid one), maybe not the best option. By my third I was sure I didn't want to be in the hospital for days recuperating if possible, and would rather be at home after the birth, but wasn't willing to do a home birth. So we got to the birth center around 3:00 am, and she was born at 6:10 am, and we here home by lunchtime. 

[cascarones]

I mean, Jeremy played goalie the only position with gloves, they could be getting Felicity started on her soccer aspirations really really young.

2 hours ago, sleepy_doggos said:

It's so Nancy Drew, I love it!

I freaking loved Nancy Drew as a kid, I'm staying with my parents at the moment and yup, found some insomnia reading and I'm not gonna be embarrassed one bit about it. She's an old friend who needs a revisit.

[Daisy0322]

Not saying this is the case at all but I have a Facebook friend who always had those mittens on her kid.... turns out she had 2 thumbs and I guess they didn't want people to know. They had it removed recently but I always felt weird about that fact they were so self conscious about it. I hope when the kid grows up that she doesn't feel bad about it. 

[elliha]

Yeah, I don't get the mitten hate either. I never used them on my kids but I did occasionally use onesies with a flap where you can make a mitten for the baby's hand if you like. I only used them if we were outside and it got windy so I didn't have to use actual mittens which my often carried in a sling kids would just rub off. For the same reason I used a lot of footy pajama and tights on my tiny babies because they would lose their socks in the sling too. I don't use them but I see no reason for other parents to feel they must do the same thing as I.

I hate headbands on babies but I still don't think even fundies are being abusive when choosing to put them on their kids. It often looks stupid, it is unnecessary but still, it is just something some people do. My daughter was probably about 2 when she got her first headband and it was because she asked for it. I have since bought them for her occasionally but I still think they are stupid but she likes them and she is her own person not a carbon copy of me. I will most likely give her a new pair for Christmas since one of her favorites which are gold and glitter and look like they are ears from an animal, maybe a deer, just broke. I will get her whatever I think she will like and that is not Elsa-themed which means they will be over the top, glittery and probably pink or purple. I hate pink, purple and glitter but it is her head.

[Shadoewolf]

Many pediatricians and the American Academy now advise against the *overuse* of mittens. Not here and there use but always having them on. Babies need the ability to use their fingers and learn to feel the world around them. Not to mention they're used to having use of them in the womb. Imagine having oven mitts on your hands all day every day! Or the horror a parent would feel finding out a thread inside had come lose, wrapped around the baby's finger and had been cutting off circulation for hours. 

I'm not a *hater*, I used them with my kiddos IN MODERATION. 

[HereticHick]

I'm gonna call Felicity "Mittens" for the rest of her life.

[Satan'sFortress]

10 hours ago, fluffernutter said:

My experience with a birth center was that the midwife will follow you, whether you give birth at the birth center or end up in the hospital. Even if you need an ob for a difficult birth or a c-section, you have that support and the birth center midwives have privileges at the local hospital/hospitals. It really is a great option for someone who is interested in a natural birth who still wants the close hospital/ob back-up. Now if you're a gal who wants the epidural in the parking lot (me, kid one), maybe not the best option. By my third I was sure I didn't want to be in the hospital for days recuperating if possible, and would rather be at home after the birth, but wasn't willing to do a home birth. So we got to the birth center around 3:00 am, and she was born at 6:10 am, and we here home by lunchtime. 

Ditto for my region.  The midwives from the birth center stay with you no matter what.  That is why I love midwives so much! (The term midwife actually means "with woman.")

Re: the mittens---I do find it weird that they leave them on for every photo in that my eyes are drawn to them instead of to the baby. They are unusual enough that I find them distracting in the photos---even if they need to use them 23 hours and 45 minutes of the day, it'd be nice to slip them off for a picture now and then.

[JesSky03]

Has Ginger said if she's breastfeeding? If she is I hope she would take the mittens off at least while baby is eating. The skin to skin contact does wonders for your milk supply. We had to swaddle my son for every nap when he was a newborn but I always unwrapped him as soon as he woke to eat. If I'm having trouble getting a letdown, holding and stroking his hand is usually a sure fire way to make it happen. 

6 hours ago, Daisy0322 said:

Not saying this is the case at all but I have a Facebook friend who always had those mittens on her kid.... turns out she had 2 thumbs and I guess they didn't want people to know. They had it removed recently but I always felt weird about that fact they were so self conscious about it. I hope when the kid grows up that she doesn't feel bad about it. 

That makes me sad  . My cousin technically had or has two thumbs on one hand, although the second thumb wasn't really its own appendage it was just a little extension off his "normal" thumb. Nobody ever made fun of him for it and us kids thought it was kind of cool. He's 30 now and I'm not sure if he ever had it removed. 

[PlentyOfJesusFishInTheSea]

I never heard of birth centres before the Duggerlings starting having kids. I just looked it up there's only two in Ontario (Toronto and Ottawa). I have eleventy zillion friends with kids but they've all done hospital or home birth with midwife, as far as  I know.

Just because I'm curious, I'm wondering if anyone here wants to share their experiences with birth centres? Awesomely homey and you don't have to clean the sheets? Cheaper than a hospital? Some other advantage I'm not thinking of?

Also I love this incredibly practical guide to Ontario birth centres: http://www.cmo.on.ca/public/ontario-birth-centres/

[tabitha2]

I can certainly see the Duggars and their respective spouses hiding any little abnormality until they can get it surgically fixed.   

[Pretzel]

52 minutes ago, PlentyOfJesusFishInTheSea said:

I never heard of birth centres before the Duggerlings starting having kids. I just looked it up there's only two in Ontario (Toronto and Ottawa). I have eleventy zillion friends with kids but they've all done hospital or home birth with midwife, as far as  I know.

Just because I'm curious, I'm wondering if anyone here wants to share their experiences with birth centres? Awesomely homey and you don't have to clean the sheets? Cheaper than a hospital? Some other advantage I'm not thinking of?

Also I love this incredibly practical guide to Ontario birth centres: http://www.cmo.on.ca/public/ontario-birth-centres/

I have a few friends who gave birth in birthing centers, all of them extremely happy about their choice: Well trained CNMWs were taking care of them and assisting them the entire time, hospital literally next door, homey atmosphere, quiet, option of water birth available, first post partum and baby check-up done by a Dr. right there, able to leave a few hours later, etc. 

[Jinder Roles]

27 minutes ago, tabitha2 said:

I can certainly see the Duggars and their respective spouses hiding any little abnormality until they can get it surgically fixed.   

Lord help their little one if one of them ever has an intersex child.