JinJer and Felicity 43: No Homebirth, No Problem

[ivyalba]

@BernRul and @Nargus and anyone else I may have missed, I'm so sorry you/your family member had such difficult times! I have never given birth but have been a part of many labors and deliveries and any woman, no matter how baby gets out, is a trooper and a hero to me! The way I see it is 1) you had a c-section- holy cow you are amazing! that's a big surgery! 2) you did it naturally- dang you are one tough cookie 3) you used something for analgesia- you still got a living being through a small small area and I know even with an epidural, the pressure must be crazy sometimes. I would love to have kids some day and even though I've seen a lot of births, I still know I will be wholly underprepared for the experience!

Also, the way we use foley bulbs at our hospital is by putting it into the cervix and then weighting it with water in what is normally the bag that holds urine, which hangs off the bed. So the poor woman who has this can't move for however many hours it takes to fall out.

[HarryPotterFan]

1 hour ago, BernRul said:

My sister theorized that post partum depression is really PTSD from childbirth.

Speaking of my sister, she had a "successful" birth in that both she and the baby survived with no lasting damage. It was definitely traumatic. And I know this goes against popular opinion here, but the trauma she experienced was specifically caused by the hospital. I don't promote homebirths by any means (and especially not the Duggar kind) but the irony is that if she had a homebirth, it would have been complication free. The complications were specifically caused by the hospital. 

First, her doctor stripped her membranes without her consent. She wasn't overdue, she didn't have risks of a large baby (in fact, the baby was under 7 lbs) and had no issues with the pregnancy until that point. My sister didn't realize what happened until afterwards, but once she did she felt violated. She wanted to sue the doctor, but of course she didn't have the resources to do that.

Her water broke (likely because he stripped the membranes) but the contractions didn't progress. Probably because her body wasn't ready for labor, but the doctor intervened without her consent. She finally needed pitocin to make it progress or risk an infection.

Then--and this part infuriates me on her behalf--they wouldn't deliver the baby because they were too busy. She was 10 cm dialated, she felt the urge to push, and her doctor/nurses wouldn't come. You could see the change in her; she went from fairly pleasant and joking (the epidural worked wonders on her) to writhing around on the bed in pain. We kept asking for a doctor or a nurse to come in and help, but they wouldn't. They were short staffed, but that was no excuse--that baby was ready to be born, and they told my sister to wait. It got to the point that my sister asked my mom, who is a nurse herself, to deliver the baby. Finally, my sister screamed "I just want to see my goddamn doctor!" for them to finally send the doctor in. Once the doctor finally decided to visit her, she saw that my sister was more than ready to deliver, and the baby was out in three pushes. 

Basically, they forced my sister and niece to suffer, and put them both at risk, because THEY didn't want to deliver the baby. 

The baby was healthy but she was born with a fever. I can't prove this, but I suspect that the trauma of being stuck in the birth canal either caused it or made it worse. So baby had to go to the NICU. 

Watching all of that put a temporary damper on my desire to get pregnant. I'm still furious at the hospital, and my sister is traumatized by her so called successful birth. I'm still going to use a hospital when I give birth, but I am damn sure going to a different hospital. 

 

WTF??? How can the doctors/nurses claim they’re too busy to deliver a baby? Shouldn’t they know babies don’t give a shit if you’re busy? Though it does happen. My friend’s little sister I mentioned, who suffered complications when she was born, was born with no doctors or nurses in the room. The family sued the shit out of the hospital and won. I think all of that went to the expenses of taking care of the little sister.

[BernRul]

14 minutes ago, HarryPotterFan said:

WTF??? How can the doctors/nurses claim they’re too busy to deliver a baby? Shouldn’t they know babies don’t give a shit if you’re busy? Though it does happen. My friend’s little sister I mentioned, who suffered complications when she was born, was born with no doctors or nurses in the room. The family sued the shit out of the hospital and won. I think all of that went to the expenses of taking care of the little sister.

Technically, they never told us they were too busy. They just pointedly ignored her room and whenever we asked them to come in or said we thought she needed to push, they said "not now, we'll check again soon." It was pretty obvious to us why they acted that way. It took my sister screaming for them to finally come in. 

Honestly, my mother should've just delivered the baby. My sister (and probably niece) would have gone through a lot less pain and suffering. 

[Nargus]

4 hours ago, ivyalba said:

 

Also, the way we use foley bulbs at our hospital is by putting it into the cervix and then weighting it with water in what is normally the bag that holds urine, which hangs off the bed. So the poor woman who has this can't move for however many hours it takes to fall out.

That sounds dreadful, I was able to walk normally (although it was weird they recommended it so gravity could do it’s thing) and even go shower with mine in. 

[Satan'sFortress]

18 hours ago, BernRul said:

My sister theorized that post partum depression is really PTSD from childbirth.

Speaking of my sister, she had a "successful" birth in that both she and the baby survived with no lasting damage. It was definitely traumatic. And I know this goes against popular opinion here, but the trauma she experienced was specifically caused by the hospital. I don't promote homebirths by any means (and especially not the Duggar kind) but the irony is that if she had a homebirth, it would have been complication free. The complications were specifically caused by the hospital. 

First, her doctor stripped her membranes without her consent. She wasn't overdue, she didn't have risks of a large baby (in fact, the baby was under 7 lbs) and had no issues with the pregnancy until that point. My sister didn't realize what happened until afterwards, but once she did she felt violated. She wanted to sue the doctor, but of course she didn't have the resources to do that.

Her water broke (likely because he stripped the membranes) but the contractions didn't progress. Probably because her body wasn't ready for labor, but the doctor intervened without her consent. She finally needed pitocin to make it progress or risk an infection.

Then--and this part infuriates me on her behalf--they wouldn't deliver the baby because they were too busy. She was 10 cm dialated, she felt the urge to push, and her doctor/nurses wouldn't come. You could see the change in her; she went from fairly pleasant and joking (the epidural worked wonders on her) to writhing around on the bed in pain. We kept asking for a doctor or a nurse to come in and help, but they wouldn't. They were short staffed, but that was no excuse--that baby was ready to be born, and they told my sister to wait. It got to the point that my sister asked my mom, who is a nurse herself, to deliver the baby. Finally, my sister screamed "I just want to see my goddamn doctor!" for them to finally send the doctor in. Once the doctor finally decided to visit her, she saw that my sister was more than ready to deliver, and the baby was out in three pushes. 

Basically, they forced my sister and niece to suffer, and put them both at risk, because THEY didn't want to deliver the baby. 

The baby was healthy but she was born with a fever. I can't prove this, but I suspect that the trauma of being stuck in the birth canal either caused it or made it worse. So baby had to go to the NICU. 

Watching all of that put a temporary damper on my desire to get pregnant. I'm still furious at the hospital, and my sister is traumatized by her so called successful birth. I'm still going to use a hospital when I give birth, but I am damn sure going to a different hospital. 

 

I had a similar experience, though not quite so dramatic---and nothing was done without my consent.  But it was all unnecessary interventions for my "huge" baby who turned out to be 7 lb, 10 oz.  Healthy baby, and I was OK too, but yes, it was quite traumatic for me.  This was 20 years ago, and I gather that things have changed at hospitals overall.  But at the time, my story didn't seem to be too uncommon.

This is why I chose a birth center and midwives for baby #2.  Had my perfect birth that time and was so grateful. I've said here before that if I'd had another one, I would have chosen a home birth.

That being said, I loved Jinger's birth story.  I had the birth that I wanted, that made me comfortable.  And so did she.  I loved the hell out of the fact that she did her research and knew herself so well (same with Kendra) that she made the best decision for her. I have nothing against hospitals or epidurals if that is what the mom wants. I do blame myself in a large part for the first birth experience because in hindsight, I was not as fully informed as I thought I was or should have been. Jinger was able to witness her sisters' birth experiences and learn from them.  Good for her.

 

[Ivycoveredtower]

I'm not sure if anyone has posted this yet. (so apology's if it's already on the thread some where)  but here is the birth episode for anyone who couldn't watch it on tlc. 

 

[justoneoftwo]

On 8/10/2018 at 5:58 PM, BernRul said:

My sister theorized that post partum depression is really PTSD from childbirth.

 

I'm sorry things were so hard for your sister, but PPD is NOT PTSD from childbirth.  I had an easy birth and was maybe overwhelmed at one point but in no way was I traumatized.  I also had PPD.  Its dangerous to act like one is a requirement for the other.  For some people they may have PTSD and it may be similar to PPD, but its not the same.

[Iamtheway]

The birth of my son was basically without complications. 53 hours felt like at least 48 hours too long, but it was a good experience where I felt taken care of and safe the whole time. Both me and the baby were healthy and I got pretty much the birth I wanted, except for the length of it.

And the kid? Total success!

Despite that it is one of the hardest things I have ever done and I think all women that birth a child, no matter how it comes out, are freaking heroes. We grew a whole person and put our own bodies on the line in the process. I know there’s a mother’s day but there should be at least a week with a huge parade and daily gifts and foot rubs. 

[Ivycoveredtower]

New Felicity pic and damn that is a bright bow. 

 

[SweetJuly]

I know this is one of the shoes-inside-the-house discussions, but I just can't help myself - why the mittens all the time?!

Our daughter is only two days older than Felicity and boy! did she have razor-sharp nails and scratch herself when she was born. My husband used one of those small complimentary nailfiles you sometimes get in hotels to shorten and dull the nails in the first couple of days, and I extremely carefully used some baby nail scissors to trim a very pesky thumb nail last weekend.

It worked like a charm, was no big deal, and our little one is free to use, suck and explore with her fingers. Babies need the sensory input from their hands and fingers, and it just seems cruel to keep them from doing so when there are less restrictive alternatives.

(And yes, I would like to complain about the frequency that Felicity is subjected to giant-bow-wearing, but I will restrain myself there )

Maybe I'm being BEC, but I just believe in children and especially babies being as comfortable as possible.

[finnlassie]

6 hours ago, Ivycoveredtower said:

New Felicity pic and damn that is a bright bow. 

 

Her face looks like: "These damn bows, givin' me a headache!"

[MadameOvary]

2 hours ago, SweetJuly said:

I know this is one of the shoes-inside-the-house discussions, but I just can't help myself - why the mittens all the time?!

Our daughter is only two days older than Felicity and boy! did she have razor-sharp nails and scratch herself when she was born. My husband used one of those small complimentary nailfiles you sometimes get in hotels to shorten and dull the nails in the first couple of days, and I extremely carefully used some baby nail scissors to trim a very pesky thumb nail last weekend.

It worked like a charm, was no big deal, and our little one is free to use, suck and explore with her fingers. Babies need the sensory input from their hands and fingers, and it just seems cruel to keep them from doing so when there are less restrictive alternatives.

(And yes, I would like to complain about the frequency that Felicity is subjected to giant-bow-wearing, but I will restrain myself there )

Maybe I'm being BEC, but I just believe in children and especially babies being as comfortable as possible.

I have wondered as well. But maybe this is one of those "no two babies are the same" things? I never used mittens on my baby, there was just no need.

Trimming a baby's nails (after they grew enough to need it) was pretty scary though and quite difficult for quite some time. I used to wait till she fell asleep on the boob and then do it very... very... carefully. I usually managed just a couple of nails at a time. There was no way I could have done it while she was awake.

[SapphireSlytherin]

I was vilified for calling out Jill for the mittens, so...

 

[HarleyQuinn]

I really don't understand the J'slaves need to turn their kids' full names into hashtags. It's so weird. 

[ViolaSebastian]

21 minutes ago, HarleyQuinn said:

I really don't understand the J'slaves need to turn their kids' full names into hashtags. It's so weird. 

I don't either, but I've seen non-Duggary people in my personal life tag their kids photos with their names, so it's not just a Duggar thing. 

[HarleyQuinn]

5 minutes ago, ViolaSebastian said:

I don't either, but I've seen non-Duggary people in my personal life tag their kids photos with their names, so it's not just a Duggar thing. 

I've seen first names but never first, middle, last. It just seems kind of pompous. 

[ViolaSebastian]

26 minutes ago, HarleyQuinn said:

I've seen first names but never first, middle, last. It just seems kind of pompous. 

I have some pretentious people in my life. 

[closetcagebaby]

38 minutes ago, HarleyQuinn said:

I've seen first names but never first, middle, last. It just seems kind of pompous. 

It’s pretty common in my circles to do either first and middle or the full name - but I guess I also know some pretentious people. Makes it easy to look at cute baby pics though!

[emmeline]

I don't get putting mittens on baby all the time either. But then again, neither of mine would keep socks on, let alone mittens (not that we ever really tried), so it was a moot point for us. 

[Meggo]

I tried to get mitts for my son. He was five pounds when he came home (so think about how tiny those nails are!) and I was worried he'd scratch. Never found them - went to a bunch of stores and everyone looked at me like I was nuts* - learned to trim his nails with manicure scissors (still do it now - and he's five)

Also trimmed them in the car seat when he got bigger and squirmier. At least he was half contained that way!

*this happened a lot - "you want mitten clips that aren't pink with bows in January? you want a winter hat that doesn't have a giant pink bow on it? You want baby mits? You want a pacifier clip that fits your pacifier that we sell? You want a bike basket that isn't Frozen or Cinderella to go on your son's Super Hero bike? Out of luck." 

(I wouldn't have put a daughter in giant pink bows either - just not my deal.)

[JesSky03]

I was thinking the same thing about the mittens. The lactation specialists at the hospital my son was born at really discourage them. They believe its important for baby to have access to their hands for exploration, soothing, and skin to skin with mama while breastfeeding. Baby skin is pretty amazing. If my son would scratch himself in the morning, the mark would be gone by that afternoon. He's had pimples that pop up and then disappear just  a couple hours later.  

[tabitha2]

They don’t  really do the exploration thing in any aspect much less care or are aware what specialists say.  Probably all Jinger thinks about is Her daughter having a scratched up face. Mittens is the easiest way to stop it so that’s what they do. 

[singsingsing]

I also see people I know making their kids' names into hashtags on their photos. I've always assumed it's so they can just click the hashtag and easily find all the photos they've posted of the kid.

[bal maiden]

12 hours ago, Ivycoveredtower said:

New Felicity pic and damn that is a bright bow. 

 

Those car seat straps should be below her shoulder level. Rear facing straps should begin just below the level of, or at the level of the shoulders. Not above. 

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

4 hours ago, MadameOvary said:

I have wondered as well. But maybe this is one of those "no two babies are the same" things? I never used mittens on my baby, there was just no need.

Trimming a baby's nails (after they grew enough to need it) was pretty scary though and quite difficult for quite some time. I used to wait till she fell asleep on the boob and then do it very... very... carefully. I usually managed just a couple of nails at a time. There was no way I could have done it while she was awake.

It is very much, all babies are different. We used mittens (socks actually he could get the mittens off) on our son he was always clawing at his face and scratching himself, we couldn't get his nails short enough. With our daughter we only used them for about 2 weeks, she stopped scratching at her face pretty quickly. I think the evil genius side of her knew why we put the socks on her hands  (we didn't want to waste money on baby mittens) and stopped doing it because she hated her hands being covered.  She's always been a little to smart for her own good.