Lori Alexander 53: Mourning Mom ... Maybe

[AliceInFundyland]

 Families can just implode with death... I thought my mom’s family was all good. Then my grandma got dementia. Mom moved in and did the daily care until she went to a home. That was about two years. In that period, she took to drinking. Meanwhile her older brother was executor of the estate.  Always a stubborn man, he became....verbally abusive toward Mom and my other aunt and uncle. He also may have been drinking. The example I remember is when they were discussing what to do with the senile cat, he said “euthanize it.” It was his son who gave the kitten to his mother. I still care about the guy, but damn. Nobody was very happy with that. (My aunt took the cat.)

It’s not very clear because I too handle this stuff horribly, and when she wasn’t sober, she was a REALLY bad communicator. And I avoid.

I think Mom and my uncle were fighting because they both wanted what best for grandma, who was wonderful. My mom couldn’t do anything except read and elder sit and that wore on her. My uncle is abrasive and he opted to use his executive powers like a dick. My other uncle is passive. My aunt is far away.  Add intoxication, it all falls apart.

My uncle still isn’t speaking to my mom.  Neither is one of his kids. But his other kid was a total blessing in those final days when my brother and I couldn’t be there and she was tapped out. So there you go.

It saddens me. I don’t think she would be pleased. We had this family tradition of playing Bingo together at Christmas for white elephant gifts so that everyone (kids and adults) would be together. It would go on for quite awhile. I made away with the tattered Bingo set when it was time to do that. My youngest cousin has just had her first/only baby. I am going to frame the lid and give it to her. I would also like to frame the cards and give them to all of my family. #horriblecommunicator/sentimentalfool

[klein_roeschen]

My mother died when I was 20 and my father when I was 23, both where alcoholics and that killed them in the end. And while I didn't had a very good relationship with my borderline narcisist mother, I was booth devastated when we got the news that they are going to die. I would never dreamed of leaving them alone. And while my brother and I weren't there in the moment they passed, because the rules of the ICU only allowed to visit at certain times, we visited them. We spoke to them, hold their hands, showed them their children where there and cared for them.

[SongRed7]

16 hours ago, Loveday said:

16 hours ago, AlwaysDiscerning said:

Her general public readers, not her chatroom, has absolutely no idea she is on vacation do they??

I follow her public page pretty closely, and I don't think she's mentioned anything about it there.

someone did post how nice it was that she could be bedside with her mom during this difficult time to help her. I wasn't sure it that person knew she wasn't there and was being facetious or if they honestly thought Lori was with her mom on her deathbed.

 

[Koala]

No post this morning.  That doesn't sound good.

In other news, "Courtney" left the following response on yesterday's post:

Quote

I really enjoy posts like this! 

  Huh?  You "enjoy" posts about people coming to the end of their lives?

Another reader (on FB) wrote:

Quote

I will never forget the weeks of sitting by my sick father's bedside and I am immeasurable grateful I was there. I would not give up that time for anything. It's a blessing you're able to be there to help her! 

Sorry hon...you misunderstood.  Lori is on vacation.

[Free Jana Duggar]

No post this morning Is it remotely possible Lori is headed home to her mom?

[AlwaysDiscerning]

You all need check out Matthew Clark on the latest 2.0 post. He is just full blown nuts. Defending Lori like crazy. I think all these men have crushes on her. 

[Loveday]

19 minutes ago, Free Jana Duggar said:

No post this morning Is it remotely possible Lori is headed home to her mom?

I hope so. 

[pandorasjen]

Yesterday was the anniversary of my dads death. He passed in 1997 when I was 17. My mother knew a few days before that the end was near. She called my grandfather (dads dad) and told him. He decided that the trip he booked on an Alaska cruise was more important than his sons funeral. I will never forgive that man. I honestly don’t even know if he’s dead or not and I don’t care. Lori reminds me of my grandfather. It’s all well and good to write a post, but for fucks sake, actually be there when someone you profess to love is dying! 

[SilverBeach]

14 hours ago, usmcmom said:

Sorry to butt in, but Alyssa posted photos of her Grandmother on her IG story - photos of her in her hospital bed, clearly near the end of life.  

I wouldn't have done this either, unless my mother gave her consent. I know I'm more private than some people, but is nothing private anymore?

[nokidsmom]

Interesting to hear everyone's stories surrounding their parents and my condolences to all, even after a long period of time, as it really never goes away.   So many different experiences and unfortunately, death does weird things to families as I found out (and continuing to find out) with my own.  

Lost my Mom over 3 years ago and Dad last October.   Both went into hospice care at the end.  Mom passed hours after entering hospice, far faster than expected and before I got there.   In Dad's case, he was in hospice several days.  I was with my Dad when he passed in the early morning hours.  I had stayed the night in his room and I am so glad I did.    

Getting back to Lori, I agree that she is probably terrified of this situation with her mother.  I admit I was scared of staying the night by my Dad but put it aside to be there.  It wasn't because he was suffering (he wasn't and it was very peaceful) but because having never been near death before.   And it's your parent.

[SongRed7]

16 minutes ago, nokidsmom said:

Getting back to Lori, I agree that she is probably terrified of this situation with her mother.  I admit I was scared of staying the night by my Dad but put it aside to be there.  It wasn't because he was suffering (he wasn't and it was very peaceful) but because having never been near death before.   And it's your parent.

My brother died suddenly (from heart condition) when I was 22 and he was 24.  Mom died 6 years later.  My dad lived another 18 years and died 8 years ago.  It's hard being the only surviving member of my immediate family. 

I am NO defender of Lori, but it sounds like she never lost anyone that close to her. (parents, siblings).  To experience the death of a close loved one for the first time at age 60 has to be terrifying.  It is NEVER easy. 

[nokidsmom]

32 minutes ago, SongRed7 said:

I am NO defender of Lori, but it sounds like she never lost anyone that close to her. (parents, siblings).  To experience the death of a close loved one for the first time at age 60 has to be terrifying.  It is NEVER easy. 

Exactly what I am thinking.  Seems that this may be a first for her.  And to lose a parent even when you are older, doesn't stop you from feeling like you are "orphaned".

[Koala]

This is what's REALLY important to Lori:

Notice she mentions nothing about spreading the gospel, or furthering the cause of Christ.  Lori wants attention, pure and simple.

[older than allosaurs]

34 minutes ago, SongRed7 said:

My brother died suddenly (from heart condition) when I was 22 and he was 24.  Mom died 6 years later.  My dad lived another 18 years and died 8 years ago.  It's hard being the only surviving member of my immediate family. 

I am NO defender of Lori, but it sounds like she never lost anyone that close to her. (parents, siblings).  To experience the death of a close loved one for the first time at age 60 has to be terrifying.  It is NEVER easy.  

My best to you, SongRed7. I have no doubt you are right that Lori, with her inability to empathize, has never given thought to what it's like to lose someone close to you.

Since I am on the old side, my friends and I are reaching the point when illness and death are unavoidable topics. In the last year I've lost two dear friends, one to cancer and one to a car accident. This week I went to the memorial of an acquaintance to whom I wasn't close, but she made an impression on me during our time working on a project together. It's was a catastrophic ending. She was murdered by her son, who apparently was in a psychotic episode. A close friend has survived a year and a half since her stage 4 cancer diagnosis and another is failing from Parkinson's. I am part of a care team of friends who spend several hours a month with her or strategizing how to get her the help she needs.

I keep having to remind myself that this is not necessarily a short-term clusterfuck of hard news. This is how it goes if you live long enough and have friends. I remember my mom saying in her later years that her main social life was going to memorials. I have to figure out how to be present without being consumed. One thing I am figuring out is that if you love someone, it's a privilege to have the space in your life to be with them at the end, to honor their memory, and to help out as you can. Both my parents had slow declines including dementia. I'm an only child and they had no other close family, so I spent 10 years trying to help and attend while in the midst of my own family troubles -- my husband left, my kids were in difficulties, my job was demanding and my income was essential. It was all too much, and I never felt I was doing right by anyone. It was only the last several weeks of my mom's life, when we were able to move her to an adult care home close to me, that I could see her daily and not be consumed with logistics. I am grateful that I could be with her as she died.

So yeah, Lori is a fool if she doesn't take advantage her freedom to be with her mom without shortchanging other people who depend on her.

My old lady advice, not that you asked, is (1) show up, even when there is nothing in the situation you can fix, and (2) get your advanced care directives in order, for everyone's sake.

 

 

[quiversR4hunting]

3 minutes ago, older than allosaurs said:

My old lady advice, not that you asked, is (1) show up, even when there is nothing in the situation you can fix, and (2) get your advanced care directives in order, for everyone's sake.

May I add to your advice - from a court worker? (3) get a freaking will - even if it is a piece of paper written out with a notary stamp. And if you have minors living with you - get a will and name who is to have custody of the children if both parents are deceased (or the other is unable to care for the child/ren). (4) keep your life insurance up-to-date with the correct beneficiaries. You don't want your life insurance to be directed to your ex or a dead relative.

[Letgo]

Polecat's comment from the previous thread---So we went on vacation. We'd literally never gone away, my husband and I, since we'd gotten married. It was our first solo vacation since having kids, so nearly a decade. We had a wonderful time together, but the morning we were supposed to leave, we got the phone call. I left my mom with an "I love you," but it didn't ease the pain, the devastation, that my mom had died, and I wasn't there. 
 

Perhaps your mother was waiting to die until you left because she wanted to spare you. Several years ago the father of a friend was dying and the family all waited at his bedside, to simply be with him. Finally, late at night the adult children went home because it appeared that he wasn't going quite as soon as expected. The man died shortly after his children left, with only his wife at his side. The hospice nurse said sometimes people wait to go until they say good-bye to someone or in order to spare someone having to watch them die. Others need "permission" from their loved ones before they go. Your mother may have simply waited. I'm sorry for you loss; it's tough to lose one's parents, at any age.

My parents are both gone too. Dad died before I got there and I was with my mom when she passed. Oddly, or perhaps not so oddly, both ways were right for me at the times of their deaths. I really freaked out just thinking that if I had left the house when I  planned I would have been there and witnessed my dad dying. I was grateful I arrived just afterward. But for my mom it was okay that I was there and I wasn't upset and she died peacefully. 

[wild little fox]

19 hours ago, Pink Muffin said:

 

I belive this is a distraction so people will forget about that awful blog post she shared from the racist. I guess Ken told her to do some damage control by pretending to be a loving daughter. 

 

 

 

I don't believe that Ken had to tell her. The narcissist that she is needs no coaching in manipulation and redirection. She may manipulate things to where Ken thinks he is advising, and I don't for a moment think he's a long suffering saint, but she has total control over everything she says and does. 

[Loveday]

10 minutes ago, quiversR4hunting said:

May I add to your advice - from a court worker? (3) get a freaking will - even if it is a piece of paper written out with a notary stamp. And if you have minors living with you - get a will and name who is to have custody of the children if both parents are deceased (or the other is unable to care for the child/ren). (4) keep your life insurance up-to-date with the correct beneficiaries. You don't want your life insurance to be directed to your ex or a dead relative.

I can't second this advice hard enough. My own current experience:

Spoiler

 

I have a family member in his 80s, in very poor health, still living alone because he refuses to consider assisted living and doesn't even want a home health care person to come in a few hours a day to help him out. At this point he almost needs to be in memory care because he's in the early stages of vascular dementia. We all help him as much as we can; family members visit him almost daily, Meals on Wheels comes by (and then he hoards the meals in the fridge for weeks!), different nurses come by to check on his various ailments. But he won't listen to any of us because he thinks we're out to get his money (at the moment, a fairly considerable estate, but his current mismanagement of it doesn't bode well for it to continue that way). Nothing we say will convince him we don't want his money, we want him to use his money to properly  care for himself. 

Anyway...he has no will, and no power of attorney has been assigned to anyone. He's terrified of losing 'control.' I've tried to tell him many times that a will gives him MORE control, even from beyond the grave! but nope. We just want him to die so we can get all his money.   Doesn't matter what any of us says, he's convinced of this. There is so much more to all of this that I won't go into, but it's SO important to get your financial/medical/legal house in order, both to make sure that what you want done is carried out and to avoid the absolute nightmare of dealing with the fallout that your family will go through when you're gone.

 

 

[Alisamer]

30 minutes ago, Letgo said:

Perhaps your mother was waiting to die until you left because she wanted to spare you. Several years ago the father of a friend was dying and the family all waited at his bedside, to simply be with him. Finally, late at night the adult children went home because it appeared that he wasn't going quite as soon as expected. The man died shortly after his children left, with only his wife at his side. The hospice nurse said sometimes people wait to go until they say good-bye to someone or in order to spare someone having to watch them die. Others need "permission" from their loved ones before they go. Your mother may have simply waited. I'm sorry for you loss; it's tough to lose one's parents, at any age.

I've seen this, too. A friend of mine had her mother at her house under hospice care, in terminal stages of cancer. Her mom passed while she was at church, and I'm sure she waited until she was out of the house to do it. The daughter did not react well to her death, and I'm sure her mom wanted to pass in peace and let someone else break the news to her.

[quiversR4hunting]

@Loveday I am so sorry.

Spoiler

My husband has been going much what you have been fighting but it is with his mother. I know my husband has tried to get his mom to settle her affairs. She keeps telling her kids she has a will but nobody knows where it is located . She has said what she wants but then she changes her mind. Which makes everyone believe she doesn't have anything.

My husband sat down with her one weekend with legal zoom and worked on it with her. To his knowledge she has yet to sign it and put it away. She is on her 2nd marriage. Her husband has 3 adult children. 2 of which are selfish, greedy, ungrateful dipshits. One of those dipshits is an attorney. The swarmy swamp kind. My husband has tried to tell his mom if she doesn't settle her affairs her husband will get everything which means his kids get everything. (MIL & step-FIL both say they want their own kids to have their own property but without a will.....) BTW my MIL is a minimally controlled diabetic and she has many other medical issues.

I am lucky, my parents have a full estate and medical papers all written up. My siblings and I have not read it but we know where it is located. We know what they want if they are in a life support situation and we know where the papers are to back up what they want. If my parents start becoming frail my plan is to make a copy of the medical information and have a copy to each of my siblings so whoever gets to the hospital first can act.

 

[nokidsmom]

40 minutes ago, Alisamer said:

I've seen this, too. A friend of mine had her mother at her house under hospice care, in terminal stages of cancer. Her mom passed while she was at church, and I'm sure she waited until she was out of the house to do it. The daughter did not react well to her death, and I'm sure her mom wanted to pass in peace and let someone else break the news to her.

When Dad was in hospice, the staff mentioned that it was very common for the dying person to pass when loved ones left the room.   They encouraged us, as we were there all day, to take care of ourselves, to get something to eat, to get rest and most of all, to not feel guilty if "it" happened while we were gone.   It was a phenomenon they had seen a lot.

Spoiler

The morning Dad died, the staff woke me up saying there were definite changes in his condition and it would be a matter of 4-6 hours.  I called my sister, waking her up, informing her of same.   I then changed, headed out of the room to get coffee down the hall, chatted with the staff, then headed back to the room.  It was probably between 5-10 minutes.  

Got back in room and noticed that Dad was not breathing.  His breathing had been pretty loud through the night and my "indicator" that he was still with us.  Called staff to check on him, they came in looking rather surprised, as things had moved fairly steadily and predictably in Dad's case.  After checking him, they confirmed he still had a heartbeat but only for the next couple of minutes.   They left the room, I pulled up a chair and talked to him for a bit.  When staff came back a couple of minutes later, they confirmed he was gone. 

Seems I caught him just in time but it was weird how he was definitely breathing when I left and when I came back to the room after only a few minutes, it all changed.

 

[Loveday]

@quiversR4hunting, it's just so frustrating, isn't it? And other family members often make things worse--that's another thing we're dealing with, it's really doing a number on our relationships with each other. 

Spoiler

 

The situation I described in my previous post is, like yours, on my husband's side; fortunately for me, my mom has her ducks in a row. Far less of an estate, but she has a will, I'm already on her bank accounts, and I have power of attorney and executorship when the time comes that those are needed. My brother passed away some years ago, so it's just me and her now. She has zero debt and no car, so it will be relatively simple to resolve everything when she passes. I say 'relative' because I know that something always pops up! 

I forgot to mention that with my husband's relative, he's also a hoarder, especially of paper, so there will be mountains of that to go through when the time comes. I've already worked on some of it, and removed quite a bit, but he's managed in a short time to just create even more than I took out, so now it looks like I never did a thing in there. I'd love to stop his newspaper and remove his printer, but he'd just resubscribe and order a new printer!

 

 

[Seahorse Wrangler]

1 hour ago, quiversR4hunting said:

May I add to your advice - from a court worker? (3) get a freaking will - even if it is a piece of paper written out with a notary stamp. And if you have minors living with you - get a will and name who is to have custody of the children if both parents are deceased (or the other is unable to care for the child/ren). (4) keep your life insurance up-to-date with the correct beneficiaries. You don't want your life insurance to be directed to your ex or a dead relative.

Mr Wrangler died without a will and it's been a hard 18 months trying to make sense of everything even with the help of a lawyer and an estate professional.  We will need a group of people to over-see how the monies for our younger children are maintained until they turn 18. And that will be for another 5 years till Sea Colt turns 18.

I'm lucky enough that I don't have any immediate money problems because the life insurance was in my name but the rest of the estate was to be properly audited next.

 

eta I don't know if any one here has read this Reddit thread.

 

[nokidsmom]

22 minutes ago, Seahorse Wrangler said:

And if you have minors living with you - get a will and name who is to have custody of the children if both parents are deceased

One thing I am grateful for was that  my folks had a will going all the way back to when we were kids.  Parents didn't have much back then so the main purpose was to provide direction about guardianship.   They updated as necessary, changing the guardianship part when I turned 18,  removed all provision for guardianship when my youngest sister turned 18, did all the medical directives, etc. so there was no question over what their wishes were.

Spoiler

Even then problems can come up.  One thing not expected was the order in which they died.   Because of my parents' age difference it was expected that my Mom would survive my Dad, so she appointed me as her executor (if she outlived Dad) and Dad appointed my sister as his executor (if he outlived Mom).   Dad died last so my sister is handling the estate.  

All went well until a couple of months ago.   Everything has been handled except the house.   Sister was on track to do estate sale and ready house for sale this past spring until suddenly she's stalling, states she won't sell until next year, she wants to do unnecessary upgrades / fixes to the house first.  In the meantime, it's costing money between upkeep and taxes, other sister and I have said just let's get it done but she insists on doing it her way regardless.   I suspect it's grief issues on sister's part and no amount of legal planning can deal with an executor caught up in it and making irrational decisions.

 

 

[3splenty]

20 hours ago, Lgirlrocks said:

When my dad went into a coma and they thought he had maybe two weeks to live I called into work. My mom told me to wait until they were sure he was passing but I couldn’t. I tried to go to work but it was too much. My mind was at home. He passed away 5 days later. I regret nothing. When my mom thought my grandma was dying I drove home, 3.5 hours, to spend a few hours with her. When I found out my aunt was dying I didn’t go to work but instead I went to the hospital. Lori, you sorry excuse for a human being, go be with your mother! I don’t fucking care how hard it is. It’s the right thing to do. Your mother deserved better than you! 

You did an amazing thing.  I spent many hours holding hands, wiping foreheads, offering my presence to those who had no one there when that time was near.  When family would arrive, I would slip away to do my other work.  One family member told me I wasn't a nurse--I was an angel in scrubs.  When I have a bad day, I remember that.

1 hour ago, nokidsmom said:

When Dad was in hospice, the staff mentioned that it was very common for the dying person to pass when loved ones left the room.   They encouraged us, as we were there all day, to take care of ourselves, to get something to eat, to get rest and most of all, to not feel guilty if "it" happened while we were gone.   It was a phenomenon they had seen a lot.

  Hide contents

The morning Dad died, the staff woke me up saying there were definite changes in his condition and it would be a matter of 4-6 hours.  I called my sister, waking her up, informing her of same.   I then changed, headed out of the room to get coffee down the hall, chatted with the staff, then headed back to the room.  It was probably between 5-10 minutes.  

Got back in room and noticed that Dad was not breathing.  His breathing had been pretty loud through the night and my "indicator" that he was still with us.  Called staff to check on him, they came in looking rather surprised, as things had moved fairly steadily and predictably in Dad's case.  After checking him, they confirmed he still had a heartbeat but only for the next couple of minutes.   They left the room, I pulled up a chair and talked to him for a bit.  When staff came back a couple of minutes later, they confirmed he was gone. 

Seems I caught him just in time but it was weird how he was definitely breathing when I left and when I came back to the room after only a few minutes, it all changed.

 

I can vouch for that.  I remember that happening a lot.  Family steps out for coffee, they come back and their loved one has passed.  An older nurse (now retired) told me that she felt they wanted to take that final step without upsetting loved ones.