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47of74

Pope Francis declares death penalty wrong in all cases

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47of74

Francis has decided that the church should oppose capital punishment in all cases

Quote

Pope Francis has declared that the death penalty is wrong in all cases, a definitive change in church teaching that is likely to challenge faithful Catholic politicians, judges and officials in the United States and other countries who have argued that their church was not entirely opposed to capital punishment.

Francis added the change to the Catechism of the Roman Catholic Church, the book of doctrine that is taught to Catholic children worldwide and studied by adults in a church with 1.2 billion members.

Francis said executions were unacceptable in all cases because they are “an attack on the inviolability and dignity of the person,” the Vatican announced on Thursday.

The church also says it will work “with determination” for the abolition of capital punishment worldwide.

Of course the reich to life folks in this country will be lining right up to support his new call to abolish capital punishment and doing away with the death penalty tomorrow.  (Yeah, sarcasm).

I'm generally opposed to it myself, but I think there are a few cases where I think it is an appropriate sanction, and if I had my way the only people eligible would be government employees guilty of treason, electoral fraud, or voter suppression - and it would include elected officials and members of the military.

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The limit does not exist

I'm not sure how this teaching fits in with Exodus and since many of the fundies on FJ aren't Catholic, I doubt we'll see any changes in position from this.

Exodus 21:23-25 New International Version (NIV)

23 But if there is serious injury, you are to take life for life, 24 eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, 25 burn for burn, wound for wound, bruise for bruise.

 

Edit: there are lots of things there Bibles calls for that are no longer considered acceptable so obviously there is room for changing ideas (like mixing textiles/fabrics)

Edited by The limit does not exist
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seraaa
37 minutes ago, The limit does not exist said:

I'm not sure how this teaching fits in with Exodus and since many of the fundies on FJ aren't Catholic, I doubt we'll see any changes in position from this.

Exodus 21:23-25 New International Version (NIV)

23 But if there is serious injury, you are to take life for life, 24 eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, 25 burn for burn, wound for wound, bruise for bruise.

 

Edit: there are lots of things there Bibles calls for that are no longer considered acceptable so obviously there is room for changing ideas (like mixing textiles/fabrics)

Totally. And I guess also that it must be looked at and interpreted as a whole.

Although I personally think Pope Francis is right, if we're holding to the teachings of Jesus and what he said in the New Testament (and even the Old Testament sets out 'thou shalt not kill' as an imperative in the Ten Commandments). It always bothered me that the Church didn't condemn capital punishment completely, so I am glad he's said this. 

Edited by seraaa

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Don'tlikekoolaid

GOOD!!!!!

if we all followed the Old Testament rule we all be blind or toungless or whatever.

Some people don’t deserve to live but that is not our call. IMO.  Ps, not Catholic.

i think all the Churches should have a “do no harm” mandate from God. 

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laPapessaGiovanna
1 hour ago, The limit does not exist said:

I'm not sure how this teaching fits in with Exodus and since many of the fundies on FJ aren't Catholic, I doubt we'll see any changes in position from this.

Exodus 21:23-25 New International Version (NIV)

23 But if there is serious injury, you are to take life for life, 24 eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, 25 burn for burn, wound for wound, bruise for bruise.

 

Edit: there are lots of things there Bibles calls for that are no longer considered acceptable so obviously there is room for changing ideas (like mixing textiles/fabrics)

Catholics are not bible literalists and tend to see Mosaic law through the lenses of time, actually they tend to disregard OT rules as part of the old covenant and keep only the ten commandments (this makes the RCC stance on lgbtq issues even more senseless).

But it's worth noting that this is a modern evolution of Vatican's philosophy as Pope Paul VI was the first one to use his authority to completely outlaw the death penalty on Vatican soil. It would be pretty hypocritical for the Church to preach the contrary given its position on abortion.

Personally this topic is one of the very few where I wholeheartedly agree with the RCC. My corner of Italy has a long tradition of opposing death penalty since the 18th century and the fact that this is still a topic of contention 2 centuries after Cesare Beccaria is deeply disturbing for me.

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katilac

I was raised Catholic, and I thought the CC already opposed the death penalty. Obviously, I was never one to read the fine print, lol, but I grew up in a heavily Catholic area and I think most of us had the same rough idea of the church opposing abortion and the death penalty. Circa 1970s and 1980s. 

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picklepizzas
8 hours ago, katilac said:

I was raised Catholic, and I thought the CC already opposed the death penalty. Obviously, I was never one to read the fine print, lol, but I grew up in a heavily Catholic area and I think most of us had the same rough idea of the church opposing abortion and the death penalty. Circa 1970s and 1980s. 

Agreed, pretty sure we were taught opposition to abortion and the death penalty as part of the whole 'yay life' package at my catholic school. i'd be surprised if this is a controversial statement to any catholic pro-lifers.  (and of course what the pope says won't matter to any evangelicals...)

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louisa05
1 hour ago, picklepizzas said:

Agreed, pretty sure we were taught opposition to abortion and the death penalty as part of the whole 'yay life' package at my catholic school. i'd be surprised if this is a controversial statement to any catholic pro-lifers.  (and of course what the pope says won't matter to any evangelicals...)

There was an out, per se, that it was acceptable in cases where it was the only recourse to ensure public safety. In the modern world, there really aren't many cases where that would be the case, but the very conservative Catholics I know would insist that every death penalty case in our state somehow met that exception. 

I'm going to guess that they will dismiss this announcement and make excuses for why the pope is wrong. Because the GOP must be right. As the fundies I knew liked to say, it is "God's Own Party".

(Apologies to anyone who lost their most recent meal due to that last part)

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Hane

Yes—the whole Catholic “pro-life” deal encompasses no abortion, no euthanasia, no death penalty, and is called “the seamless garment.” Strangely, though, exceptions are made for a “just [morally necessary] war.”

Of course, this will not matter a jot to many right-wing Catholics, some of whom are sedevacantists who believe Francis is an “anti-Pope.”

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Meeka

Matt Walsh is already going off about the pope and the stance of the death penalty and he is Catholic.

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delphinium65

If you're going to call yourself 'pro-life' it makes sense to oppose the death penalty, at least for any crime less than murder...I could see some wiggle room there, particularly if a person has killed many people, and there is strong reason to believe that s/he would do it again in the future.  But for anything less than the taking of other lives the death penalty simply is not consistent with being pro-life. 

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PennySycamore

Hallelujah!  (says this ex-Catholic atheist)  The last time I saw my sponsors from when I was received into the Church was when they'd come to Atlanta from Mississippi to anti-capital punishment rally.  This was about 40 years ago.

I've been against the death penalty for at least 50 years.  When I took criminology at UGA, I was the only student in the entire class that was against the death penalty.  I said student because I think the retired prison warden prof was as well.  I do know he recommended this book by a former warden at San Quentin called Capital Punishment: the Inevitability of Caprice and Mistake.

Governor Kasich of Ohio commuted a death sentence to Life last week after a public outcry.  I can't recall the prisoner's name offhand, but I'm glad the sentence was commuted.  There is no justice at all in capital punishment, just vengeance.  

 

Edited by PennySycamore
minor riffle

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louisa05
On 8/3/2018 at 12:24 PM, PennySycamore said:

Hallelujah!  (says this ex-Catholic atheist)  The last time I saw my sponsors from when I was received into the Church was when they'd come to Atlanta from Mississippi to anti-capital punishment rally.  This was about 40 years ago.

I've been against the death penalty for at least 50 years.  When I took criminology at UGA, I was the only student in the entire class that was against the death penalty.  I said student because I think the retired prison warden prof was as well.  I do know he recommended this book by a former warden at San Quentin called Capital Punishment: the Inevitability of Caprice and Mistake.

Governor Kasich of Ohio commuted a death sentence to Life last week after a public outcry.  I can't recall the prisoner's name offhand, but I'm glad the sentence was commuted.  There is no justice at all in capital punishment, just vengeance.  

 

There is an execution scheduled in Nebraska a week from Tuesday. A number of Catholic priests and parishes and other groups are speaking out and the three bishops of the state issued a letter to all Catholics asking that we speak out between now and then to try to stop it. 

Our idiot trust fund baby governor claims to be a devout Catholic better than the rest of us Catholics. He preaches about it when he talks about abortion, but has not a word to say in the face of the bishops of the state uniting in opposition to this or the new doctrine from the Pope. He has personally promoted the death penalty including personally funding a petition drive to get it on the ballot after the legislature abolished it over his veto and then funding the campaign in favor of it. He also illegally obtained drugs to carry out lethal injection. But this week, he is hiding behind it being "the will of the people" based on the vote to restore it.

 

 

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