Counting On Season 5/6/7 Who Knows? It's on Tonight!

[justoneoftwo]

I'm a millennial, and I'm always a bit sad when the topic of education is about making money.  I really think those things are or should be largely separate.  BUT students should know going in that they are separate.  College is to become educated, or at least some focus on that at the expense of job preparation.  Mine certainly did.  I knew that going in and was extremely privileged to be able to accept that.  My professional school should have been focused on getting into the profession.  Those are different.  With the proper information people could make an informed choice about their goals and if the school fits the goals.  Even so, there is a value to education that isn't about increasing your income.  In the US we don't value that anymore, and we are losing something from our culture.  

[Carm_88]

Speaking of American tourists living up to their stereotypes, I was in Nova Scotia for the start of July. We celebrated Canada Day in Halifax and were around the waterfront there for the 4th of July. We were approached by a bunch of American tourists and asked if we were from there. One of my friends said that she was and they asked her when the Fourth of July celebrations were going to start. We were genuinely taken back and just said "Sorry?" Then we quickly explained that Canada was a different country and that we didn't celebrate the fourth of July in any way shape or form. I mean the Queen is on our money for a reason.  

These weren't older people either, they were probably in their 30s. I actually thought that someone was going to jump out with a camera. 

[WiseGirl]

13 hours ago, nst said:

 https://www.intouchweekly.com/posts/counting-on-season-8-premiere-163887

Well that had an acceptable amount of snark. Mary Grace are you here? 

[MoonFace]

25 minutes ago, Carm_88 said:

Speaking of American tourists living up to their stereotypes, I was in Nova Scotia for the start of July. We celebrated Canada Day in Halifax and were around the waterfront there for the 4th of July. We were approached by a bunch of American tourists and asked if we were from there. One of my friends said that she was and they asked her when the Fourth of July celebrations were going to start. We were genuinely taken back and just said "Sorry?" Then we quickly explained that Canada was a different country and that we didn't celebrate the fourth of July in any way shape or form. I mean the Queen is on our money for a reason.  

These weren't older people either, they were probably in their 30s. I actually thought that someone was going to jump out with a camera. 

I have a friend who is "well educated" (Masters Degree)   Still, she didn't understand why, as a gesture of good will, that we didn't exchange Canadian money as equal to American money.   When I laughed (at the time I only had a high school diploma) I found out that she was deadly serious.   She also thought it was a crime that she couldn't go in to any bank and cash a check from her account.   

SMH 

 

[fundiesfordays]

I went to a private Christian school. My history education was sub-par at best (even worse than science, oddly enough). My husband, who has a degree in history, has been frequently amazed at how little I know about world history and geography. I still learned about the Greek and Roman gods and could name many of them in elementary school. Xena Warrior Princess kept that information in use.

For real though, Lucy Lawless makes me question my sexuality.... to the prayer closet I go!

[spatulahandeddancer]

The American tourists discussion and particularly Joe's Spanish slip reminds me of when my husband and I were on our honeymoon.  We were at a restaurant in Venice and there were two middle-aged women at the table next to us.  The waitress brought something over to them and one of them told her "gracias."  Her friend immediately hissed at her, "it's 'grazie,' you idiot, 'gracias' is Mexican!" My husband and I were trying so hard not to facepalm/visibly show that we heard that.  I think the best part is that people, especially those who deal with lots of tourists, a) recognize that it can be hard to switch to another language, especially one you don't speak well and b) appreciate the effort.  The waitress probably wouldn't have cared, and would have appreciated the effort and known that the two languages are similar and it's easy for someone to mix them up, but the friend just had to jump in and, while trying to sound like the smart,  culturally sensitive person, come off as completely idiotic and racist.

 

Joe's slip in particular also reminds me of when I was about 11 in France with my family.  I took Spanish in school, but I knew the basic courteous French words.  Went with my dad to a bakery, and when the lovely lady handed me my pain au chocolat, I completely blanked.  I remember standing there and just searching my brain for the word.  I knew "thank you" was wrong, and the only other word my brain was coming up with was "gracias," which I also knew was wrong.  I stood there for a good thirty seconds before she smiled and said, "I think you're thinking of 'merci'!"  I was so grateful that she was so nice about it!

[libgirl2]

21 hours ago, allthegoodnamesrgone said:

We all have our things, what really bugs me is people who chew with their mouths open! Rufus TAKE THE WHEEL!  I will until you stop.

I have a co-worker who's desk is next to mine. His head is about three feet away and faces me. We have a low partition. He chews gum ALL day with his mouth open! I have had to resort to listening to music really loud and avoiding looking forward. 

And if its not gum, he is eating.... all day.... with his mouth open. And putting as much food in at one time that he can. 

[freshlemonade]

1 hour ago, Hashtag Blessed said:

 Because education for its own sake is worthwhile.

This!   

Also education and college don't necessarily go hand in hand.  I think what so many want for the Duggars isn't specifically college degrees or public high school diplomas (although that would be great), its just whatever it would take to open their minds little.   A little nudge to think outside of their world.  The ability to challenge what they know without fear of damnation.  

Also, it would be nice if they didn't treat they places they visit (and they have so many amazing opportunities to travel) like bizarre oddities, but realized that these are real, modern, places and cultures.  

 

[CaricatureQualities]

1 hour ago, Carm_88 said:

Speaking of American tourists living up to their stereotypes, I was in Nova Scotia for the start of July. We celebrated Canada Day in Halifax and were around the waterfront there for the 4th of July. We were approached by a bunch of American tourists and asked if we were from there. One of my friends said that she was and they asked her when the Fourth of July celebrations were going to start. We were genuinely taken back and just said "Sorry?" Then we quickly explained that Canada was a different country and that we didn't celebrate the fourth of July in any way shape or form. I mean the Queen is on our money for a reason.  

These weren't older people either, they were probably in their 30s. I actually thought that someone was going to jump out with a camera. 

Oh, I used to work on the Halifax waterfront...everyone had tales of tourist confusion. Currency is always an issue (for a lot of americans it seems)...everyone had a story about that... the girl (from Asia)who worked at the convenience store by my work started ranting at me one day about how this group of Americans argued with her for american money and she was just like "but we're in Canada". It did not compute. Another dude who worked at a wine shop told me of a person who enthusiastically asked him where the "bridge to Europe" could be found? Hmmm... "Do you mean the Confederation bridge to P.E.I.?"  That was a good one.

[Lurky]

Reading about the Courtship "proposal" made me so sad, and hope that they'd talked about it beforehand, and she was into the idea - because how could any Fundy maiden say "No thank you" when it's being done in front of his family, much less a TV crew?  And then once they're Courting, it's really hard to back out without some stigma and fears of "lost heart pieces" and so on.  I always think of the photos of Sarah Reith looking trapped when Zach Bates surprised her by asking her, and she really wanted to say no.  It's a BS system, made even worse by the TV.

And interesting to hear that Kendra said she'd never been alone with Joe before the wedding.  I know a lot of FJers think the Duggars are allowed more freedom, and of course they're all allowed to talk privately, but there's proof right there that no, Joe is a grown adult who's been allowed to go away to college, but isn't even trusted enough to be alone with someone he's engaged to, let alone to get to know her before asking...

Anyway, thanks, as always, to @Buzzard for the recaps!

[19catsandcounting]

I'm a millennial. I actually went to college twice because I didn't know what I wanted to do the first time. And while this was expensive, and now I have debt, and people routinely like to question my decisions (despite now having a good job in a good field and just generally being happier with my life trajectory), I'm still really glad I went to college that first time. 

College is about so much more than just getting the degree to get a job. You learn so much being out on your own and experimenting in a relatively safe space. You learn to think critically, which someone upthread already said, but I agree and I think it's SO important. I had a shitty home life, too, but was especially shy at that age, so no way could I have done a gap year or just moved out and worked on my own. I needed to get away and college really felt like the only option.

Anyway, I think my main issue with saying college isn't for everyone, why do fry cooks need it? Is because we shouldn't settle for that. We shouldn't settle for less than we deserve, and I don't think you're entitled for wanting to go to college. I think it's fine if you don't go, but it should be an option for everyone. Of course it's too expensive, but the answer should be figuring out how to make it cheaper, not settling for a less educated society. Education is vital to growth as a country. 

Plus fry cooks are going to be obsolete soon, as automation takes over. We need to start thinking about a world beyond everyone having a job because there are going to be less of them to go around.

[justoneoftwo]

9 minutes ago, 19catsandcounting said:

 

Plus fry cooks are going to be obsolete soon, as automation takes over. We need to start thinking about a world beyond everyone having a job because there are going to be less of them to go around.

This part is huge!  We as a culture also need to move our identities beyond our jobs.  I'm told that in other places the question "what do you do?" doesn't come up as quickly, or is answered with hobbies.  I just can't imagine that.  And my job is a big part of who I am, but wouldn't it be great if it wasn't?  What would I even do with my time?  Or my identity?  I'm not that creative but I have such a hard time imagining it, but I'm pretty sure it would be healthier and better all around.

[SapphireSlytherin]

27 minutes ago, justoneoftwo said:

This part is huge!  We as a culture also need to move our identities beyond our jobs.  I'm told that in other places the question "what do you do?" doesn't come up as quickly, or is answered with hobbies.  I just can't imagine that.  And my job is a big part of who I am, but wouldn't it be great if it wasn't?

I took a leadership course where we had to answer the question of "what do you do?" without mentioning your job title or profession. It was eye-opening, and also difficult.

[Hashtag Blessed]

44 minutes ago, CaricatureQualities said:

Oh, I used to work on the Halifax waterfront...everyone had tales of tourist confusion. Currency is always an issue (for a lot of americans it seems)...everyone had a story about that... the girl (from Asia)who worked at the convenience store by my work started ranting at me one day about how this group of Americans argued with her for american money and she was just like "but we're in Canada". It did not compute. Another dude who worked at a wine shop told me of a person who enthusiastically asked him where the "bridge to Europe" could be found? Hmmm... "Do you mean the Confederation bridge to P.E.I.?"  That was a good one.

I wonder if the money confusion is in part because some Americans go on Carribean cruises and are used to being able to use their American money on the non-American islands? And they, for some reason, think that applies to all foreign countries?? And maybe all of the guidebooks and travel websites take for granted that people know American money is not global money, so they don't mention it. 

Or maybe they are truly ignorant and think Canada is like Puerto Rico, ours but not a state?

Those are the people whom instructions like "remove foil before microwaving" are meant for. My mind is boggled. 

6 minutes ago, SapphireSlytherin said:

I took a leadership course where we had to answer the question of "what do you do?" without mentioning your job title or profession. It was eye-opening, and also difficult.

I bet! It can also be depressing to think about like, what do I do if not my job? WHAT EVEN AM I? If your free time is spent watching TV or mindlessly scrolling through Facebook, that's not really a satisfying answer to give. I imagine a lot of people are confronted with the reality of "Omg, I'm so boring! My job is the most interesting thing about me! AND IT ISN'T EVEN THAT COOL OF A JOB." and then go into an existential crisis spiral lol.

Or maybe they're like, "Well I'm really into BDSM and I hang out at dungeons 4 nights a week, but I probably shouldn't say that at this leadership course... uuuh, I play video games."

[Carm_88]

37 minutes ago, Hashtag Blessed said:

I wonder if the money confusion is in part because some Americans go on Carribean cruises and are used to being able to use their American money on the non-American islands? And they, for some reason, think that applies to all foreign countries?? And maybe all of the guidebooks and travel websites take for granted that people know American money is not global money, so they don't mention it. 

Or maybe they are truly ignorant and think Canada is like Puerto Rico, ours but not a state?

I have no idea. The money thing is very, very common. The rest of it is just funny. In the graveyard where the Titanic victims were buried, there were a few "I didn't realize the Titanic sank near here, I thought it sank in the ocean." I just covered my mouth and walked away quickly so that I didn't die of laughter. The Titanic sank 600km from Newfoundland; yes it sank in the ocean, but that doesn't mean it's far away from anything. 

Also, Halifax Harbour is the ocean! Mind boggled!  

ETA: I can't say for certain that these people were Americans. 

[NakedKnees]

I'm going to put my cutlery comments under a spoiler, in an attempt to share my thoughts without causing World War III....

Spoiler

Is there something particularly rude about licking a butter knife, or is just licking utinsils in general considered rude?

Oh, cutlery... if there's one thing I learned from working in an Irish pub, it's that North Americans can be really clueless about British/Irish terminology, but so many British/Irish people don't realize that there are other completely normal ways to hold cutlery. Sorry if that sounds judgemental, these are just things I saw again and again and again. I'm also simplifying the nationalities- there are certainly other nationalities that played into my developing these stereotypes. 

I genuinely hate dining in situations where I can't chew on bones. It makes me sad. They taste so good.

I'm a millenial who is into higher education. I don't have much to add, but I do think it's important to view the obscene debt incurred in the US (in Chile and in many other nations too, I'm sure) for higher education as not the fault of the students, nor of the concept of higher education itself. The system is poorly constructed and it doesn't do any good to blame the good aspects of it for the bad aspects.

I'm planning on starting a master's degree program next year and will need to take a basic statistics course the first semester to meet the math requirement. I had been planning on going to law school during my undergrad and was not focused on math, and previously, I didn't pass my AP Statistics test. I don't think this course is technically "remedial," but even if it is, so what? As long as college grads are hitting a certain level of well-rounded academic acheivement at graduation, I don't think it's so important what gets them there. Some people are so much stronger in some academic areas than others that I just don't think being PERFECTLY well-rounded necessarily makes you a better candidate for university. Being aware of and sensitive to disability comes into play with this subject too.

[Pecansforeveryone]

I think there's a strong case to be made for just loving to learn and being self-taught. World upon world upon world can open to you just by visiting your local library. The Duggar children may rarely have visited a library with reading choices strictly censored. That continues to break my heart. 

[Hashtag Blessed]

10 minutes ago, Pecansforeveryone said:

I think there's a strong case to be made for just loving to learn and being self-taught. World upon world upon world can open to you just by visiting your local library. The Duggar children may rarely have visited a library with reading choices strictly censored. That continues to break my heart. 

I will never ever forget that episode years ago when they all went to visit a public school to talk to the students. (Why did this happen? Who's idea was this? They're anti-public education why are they being invited to a public school???) When the young students asked the girls what their favourite books were there was such an awkward moment because they clearly didn't read much, and then one of the girls (Jill probably) suggested a book called Before You Meet Prince Charming. I looked it up on Amazon when I saw that episode and it looks dreadful. The subtitle is "A Guide to Radiant Purity," which honestly puts me in mind of glow-in-the-dark hymens. Barf. 

It seems crazy, but I don't think the Duggars have ever read much fiction. There was a study I read about not too long ago that reading fiction can increase empathy in children and make them nicer people. What does that say about people like the Duggars who never read anything except things like How To Preserve Your Holy Hymen Because That is the Most Important Thing About You?

[AnnEggBlandHer?]

This was the first episode of CO/19KAC I have watched in years, I tend to get my info from here or following certain accounts on Instagram. So I was surprised by how much I found Kendra endearing and normal, and I couldn’t stand Joe. Kendra seemed to welcome every new experience she came across (she couldn’t handle the spinach but she tried hard to be polite about it) and yes she is giggly and immature and completely sheltered, but she seems eager and open and sweet. She also seemed shy or embarrassed about having as many children as he Lord wants and about being a stay at home wife. Joe reminded me too much of Jim Bob, answering in Spanish, having no table manners, bad jokes, and he gave this vibe that anything not American is subpar. 

The part where Ben put the stuffed animal under Henry’s head made me laugh and ‘aww’ out loud. 

Jinger and Jeremy are boring. So are Joy and Austin. 

Jessa is talented at her job—she is clearly the front woman for the Duggar brand now and she does it very well. They seemed SO NORMAL and it’s concerning that this is all most people see. 

Also- maybe I’m just a child or maybe it was on purpose, but there were a few lines that made me raise my eyebrows. When Lauren is talking about video chatting and she says “One time we did it for 5 hours” and when Joe says Kendra gets more giggly when she is tired so (something like) “The bedroom gets exciting late at night” 

[Shadoewolf]

I hate the withering looks I get when I say I'm a SAHM. Like seriously? I do 20 gazillion things a day and still managed to figure out the perfect formula for getting the Gods awful, knock you to your knees, hideous odor out of my son's hockey gear. That struggle is REAL people!! I might be in my own home, caring for my kids but that doesn't mean it's easy or fun all the time. And there are no days off and very rarely sick days. The 3 weeks I was gone when my mom died, everything at home fell to pieces. My therapist was amazed I didn't suffer a complete mental breakdown. Some moms have to or want to work outside the home. Doesn't make them less of a mom. And some moms stay home, doesn't mean they aren't busting their asses too.

[TZmom]

1 hour ago, Carm_88 said:

I have no idea. The money thing is very, very common. The rest of it is just funny. In the graveyard where the Titanic victims were buried, there were a few "I didn't realize the Titanic sank near here, I thought it sank in the ocean." I just covered my mouth and walked away quickly so that I didn't die of laughter. The Titanic sank 600km from Newfoundland; yes it sank in the ocean, but that doesn't mean it's far away from anything. 

Also, Halifax Harbour is the ocean! Mind boggled!  

ETA: I can't say for certain that these people were Americans. 

You're making me homesick! When I lived in Halifax I lived directly across from one of the Titanic cemeteries. 

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

YES @Pecansforeveryone we all need to remember that learning doesn't always mean getting a degree. There are many ways to learn things with out going to college. You can educate yourself by traveling & experiencing other cultures, talking to people who've lived through history, watch a documentary, read a book, go to an art center or science center, experiment with things and learn how they work. Talk to people you'd be amazed at what you can learn from talking to others just from what they've experienced in life.

 

@Carm_88 I always go back to the great George Carlin, when he said "think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half the world is dumber than that".  It's funny but it isn't.  I HATE willful ignorance, it is one thing to be ignorant when you've spent your entire life scraping by, it is another thing to have every opportunity and ignore it because "you don't care".  That right there is the very essence of privilege, willingly being ignorant because you don't need to know anything.

[nausicaa]

2 hours ago, NakedKnees said:

I'm going to put my cutlery comments under a spoiler, in an attempt to share my thoughts without causing World War III....

  Reveal hidden contents

Is there something particularly rude about licking a butter knife, or is just licking utinsils in general considered rude?

Oh, cutlery... if there's one thing I learned from working in an Irish pub, it's that North Americans can be really clueless about British/Irish terminology, but so many British/Irish people don't realize that there are other completely normal ways to hold cutlery. Sorry if that sounds judgemental, these are just things I saw again and again and again. I'm also simplifying the nationalities- there are certainly other nationalities that played into my developing these stereotypes. 

I genuinely hate dining in situations where I can't chew on bones. It makes me sad. They taste so good.

I'm a millenial who is into higher education. I don't have much to add, but I do think it's important to view the obscene debt incurred in the US (in Chile and in many other nations too, I'm sure) for higher education as not the fault of the students, nor of the concept of higher education itself. The system is poorly constructed and it doesn't do any good to blame the good aspects of it for the bad aspects.

I think there are issues with the system but (*unpopular opinion coming*) I do think many of the loan issues are the fault of the students and we don't talk about it enough. 

Much like weddings, nowadays many kids (with parental encouragement) made poor financial choices and went to schools far outside of their financial grasp. Yes, there is relentless marketing of these schools, but the parents need to be adults and explain to their kids you can't just have something because you want it. And graduated students need to acknowledge and take responsibility for poor choices. 

College costs have risen exponentially, but even someone who comes from no family money can graduate with a modestly-sized student loan by attending a state university and working full-time in school. No one has to pledge Kappa Kappa Gamma at Georgetown to receive a college education.

We always hear about people with $120k in student loan debt. I live in Washington DC. I know several of these people. And every single person I know who has over $100k in loans for a bachelor's meets at least one of these criteria, often two: 1. Went to an out of state school or private college, 2. Didn't work and used loans for living expenses (and oftentimes splurges like spring break trips), 3. Is not making a good faith effort to pay their loans back. (Twentysomethings with student loan debt are not entitled to tropical vacations or eating out. Attack that shit and you'll have that monkey off your back by thirty.)

I know everyone's sick of my finger wagging by now, but just to prove I'm not some Trump fuckling talking out my ass here: I went to a state university, zero scholarships, had to pay for three years on my own, and worked thirty hours a week so I wouldn't have student loan debt (which nowadays, yes, would probably still leave me with a student loan, but I just did the math and it would still be under $20k). And I still lived like a pauper until about 27/28 (no eating out, no trips,  old car) to save for a house down payment and an emergency fund. It was good for me and my maturity. Was it fun? No. But no one is entitled to things being fun. 

Even if there are larger forces impacting you, at the end of the day the only person you have complete control over is you. So people have to find ways around their problems (going to community college first, making a budget, learning to save even small amounts, becoming financially literate) rather than throwing up their hands and assuming they will always be broke because of "the system." I worry that personal finance is becoming politicized.

[justoneoftwo]

36 minutes ago, nausicaa said:

I think there are issues with the system but (*unpopular opinion coming*) I do think many of the loan issues are the fault of the students and we don't talk about it enough. 

Much like weddings, nowadays many kids (with parental encouragement) made poor financial choices and went to schools far outside of their financial grasp. Yes, there is relentless marketing of these schools, but the parents need to be adults and explain to their kids you can't just have something because you want it. And graduated students need to acknowledge and take responsibility for poor choices. 

College costs have risen exponentially, but even someone who comes from no family money can graduate with a modestly-sized student loan by attending a state university and working full-time in school. No one has to pledge Kappa Kappa Gamma at Georgetown to receive a college education.

We always hear about people with $120k in student loan debt. I live in Washington DC. I know several of these people. And every single person I know who has over $100k in loans for a bachelor's meets at least one of these criteria, often two: 1. Went to an out of state school or private college, 2. Didn't work and used loans for living expenses (and oftentimes splurges like spring break trips), 3. Is not making a good faith effort to pay their loans back. (25 years old with student loan debt are not entitled to tropical vacations or eating out. Attack that shit and you'll have that monkey off your back by thirty.)

I know everyone's sick of my finger wagging by now, but just to prove I'm not some Trump fuckling talking out my ass here: I went to a state university, zero scholarships, had to pay for three years on my own, and worked thirty hours a week so I wouldn't have student loan debt (which nowadays, yes, would probably still leave me with a student loan, but I just did the math and it would still be under $20k). And I still lived like a pauper until about 27/28 (no eating out, no trips,  old car) to save for a house down payment and an emergency fund. It was good for me and my maturity. Was it fun? No. But no one is entitled to things being fun. 

Even if there are larger forces impacting you, at the end of the day the only person you have complete control over is you. So people have to find ways around their problems (going to community college first, making a budget, learning to save even small amounts, becoming financially literate) rather than throwing up their hands and assuming they will always be broke because of "the system." I worry that personal finance is becoming politicized.

To some extent what you say is true, but only to some extent.  There is an advantage to the "high end" schools, usually in networking.  Many schools do lie about their placement rates.  For some areas of study your not allowed to work in school.  The largest area I have an issue with is when students are given false information and then make an "informed" but terrible choice.  With the right information, which they had no way of getting, they may have made a better one.  Further, taking on debt can be a good choice, it just depends.

[nausicaa]

1 minute ago, justoneoftwo said:

To some extent what you say is true, but only to some extent.  There is an advantage to the "high end" schools, usually in networking.  Many schools do lie about their placement rates.  For some areas of study your not allowed to work in school.  The largest area I have an issue with is when students are given false information and then make an "informed" but terrible choice.  With the right information, which they had no way of getting, they may have made a better one.  Further, taking on debt can be a good choice, it just depends.

Just to be clear, my post was about bachelors--graduates degrees are a whole different animal.

I have never heard of an undergraduate degree program where students were not allowed to work. And if a student did not have the money to cover college, they should avoid that type of program and choose one better suited to their financial needs. 

There are many studies that show that for bachelors, high end schools have little networking advantage outside of the Ivies. I know people who attended Boston College, American University, and University of Miami with no connections that have ever led to a job. 

I don't know enough about what false information being given out is? If it's just because the student and parents didn't do their own research,  that's kind of on them. (I do agree that if a scholarship is promised and then reneged, that is unfair.)

I'm not completely anti-debt, but over 100k for a BA/BS is rarely a good choice, particularly if it is in a non-competitive field (and I'm saying this as an English major who enjoyed my studies). Up to about 40k seems to be a manageable amount for most people.