John David and Abbie Grace 3: Rapture Pending

[SpurgysingsHipHop]

Are they Married yet?

[WiseGirl]

2 hours ago, louisa05 said:

This. Many people in the U.S. tend to delegitimize the option of trade and technical schools or even two year degrees at community colleges. As a secondary teacher, I find the push for all kids to pursue a 4 year degree inappropriate for so many students. And it ignores the fact that a lot of trade/technical school certifications will make students a better living than a lot of four year degrees. A lot of technical jobs or jobs that require associate's degrees only can make a lot more than the very teachers who are telling kids they must go to a four year college make. 

I cannot love or like this enough. As a middle school teacher I have been focusing on spreading the word on working in the trades. Unfortunately our high school is focused on getting our students to college. Ugh it isn't for everyone and the college debt is staggering.

My child graduated high school, works full time, but isn't sure yet what certification program to take. On of her friends just graduated college, has debt, and can't get a job....

[emscm]

Yes!  I'm a high school Special Ed teacher and I always try to have honest conversations with my students about their options for careers without college as we plan for their transition.  A lot of my students end up choosing to take a two year technical school program as upper class men in high school, and we do a lot of planning, tours, shadowing, surveys, and conversations with them to help them decide if it is right for them at all, and then to choose programs that will match their interests and goals. 

I teach in a relatively working class, rural area, and I hear a lot of kids tell me that they are trying to make sure that they're qualified to do something that will make them good money as they decide if it's what is right for them for a career long term or to help them as they pursue other options.  

[HereticHick]

On 7/29/2018 at 10:33 PM, jqlgoblue said:

It's a good thing that Abbie was allowed to train w/ secular people and could work outside the home. I presume though that her nursing skills were meant to be put to use in a Christian setting or for people they directly know.

I do wonder what she was up to in the intervening years. If she graduated HS at 18 then there were what 6-7 years in between.

I am also super curious what Abbie did in those years after HS.  Does she have a lot of younger siblings to help raise and educate? Her family has a peach orchard so she could have been working at their farm stand for all we know--but that isn't year round work.  Has she been working outside the home? Shilling essential oils or Fundy hairclips?

Did her family expect to find her a fundy husband in her early 20s, and then when that didn't happen, did they agree to let her get LPN training in case she ended up a spinster? Or to help her aging parents?

 

[MargaretElliott]

Ah shit, this thread drift is too real. I went to a school where the "college adviser"* pushed everyone to go to 4-year, private colleges. She even questioned my decision to go to a state school and encouraged me to apply to private schools. Lady, I don't care where I get my degree, I just want it to be close and cheap. Every single one of my friends went to expensive private schools, and a ton of them went out of state for their "dream school." This "adviser" put a ton of focus on finding the perfect school for you, no matter the cost or distance. The underlying message was, "if you don't find the perfect school for you, you'll be miserable." She also practically forced my sister into college (my sister is extremely smart, but not in ways that they counted in school) and she ended up flunking out and ending up with a bunch of debt and no degree to show for it. Same for my high school boyfriend - he went to a fancy private college out of state because that's what he thought he needed to do to succeed, and he couldn't take the stress, dropped out, then had to work off his debt without a degree. He also had some other issues that contributed to his dropping out, but if it had been a cheaper school, at least it would have affected him and his family less. Everyone bought her "private schools only" shit, and now they're all up to their eyeballs in debt, working shitty jobs because everyone has a BA nowadays. I mean, I may still have debt, but I have much less than my friends who went to private school. And I'm still working shitty jobs, but hey, I'm a millenial. Sometimes I wish I had learned welding or something. The few kids who went into trade schools/the military after high school were mocked for it then, but now, they're probably making more than the ones who went to fancy colleges.

 

*I'm putting the term in quotation marks because she sucked at her job

[louisa05]

A lot of it is rooted in how high schools are judged by parents and how they compete for students. In many places, there is open enrollment or easy transfers so even public schools are competing for students. ***The following, however, is based on my experience in schools in my own state. If your state does not have similar enrollment policies or funding formulas, that is, of course, different. ***

In my state there is open enrollment so many parents, especially in areas with a lot of public districts easily accessible, shop for the best high school. Graduation rates are pretty meaningless to the parents doing that kind of shopping. They are usually upper middle to upper class families. So they are looking at the rates students go to four year colleges. On top of that, they are often looking at the annual total $$$ amount of scholarships accepted which is a number guidance counselors feverishly keep track of around here. Private colleges give more money out than public ones do. So the more kids you place in a private school, the higher that number is going to be. My nephew was pushed to a bad school that was bad fit for him by a guidance counselor who knew nephew would qualify for a full tuition scholarship there and up his money accepted numbers. Kid literally ended up choosing his major based on the school instead of the other way around and lost the scholarship after his freshman year, anyway. (It is a public college, incidentally and a different public university with no scholarship would have been cheaper because he could have commuted easily and room and board was not in the scholarship and is more than tuition). 

And why do publicly funded schools compete for students? Because state aid here is calculated on a per student basis. More families coming in, no matter where from, puts more students in seats which puts more money in the school's budget on top of local taxes. One district I work in actually made a deal to take boys on a minor league hockey team who are boarding away from home in order to increase their state aid and that is a huge PITA for everyone. 

[Firebird]

All I can say is I'm extremely grateful for my dad and grandpa pushing no college debt. I went to a community college until I figured out what I wanted to do and got my pre-reqs out of the way. I then decided on nursing as I couldn't afford the state school's OT program. I got a two year RN degree. I paid for everything I could on my own and my Grandpa covered what I couldn't pay. I worked almost full time and went to school fulltime until I hit nursing school. I was only able to work 16-24 hrs a week at that point. I made it through without any college debt. The only debt I have now is my mortgage. My husband got a free ride to community college because of his parent's income bracket so he is debt free too. We couldn't make it if we had debt. His diabetic medical bills and my fertility bills are ridiculous. 

[Meggo]

I have a university degree - got out of school with no debt (thanks to parents and incredibly cheap, small, public university+ one year at community college living at home).

My husband graduated college and owns his own construction business. He's the smartest person I know and can run circles around most people in math. (especially me - but I've always been math challenged).

Our son (age 5) loves going to work with Daddy and running heavy equipment. (or pretending too). There is talk about my son taking over the business someday and I said "Only if he wants to. If he wants to go to theatre school - then that's what he'll do. If he wants to get a business degree and then fall in with the business later - fine."
I don't want to pressure him either which way. I know plenty of people who are making good money who went to school - and plenty who didn't.
It's about choice, giving him the opportunity to follow HIS dream. And not pigeon-hole-ing him into construction because Dad does it, or university because Mom did.
 

 

[Buzzard]

On 7/27/2018 at 6:33 PM, JermajestyDuggar said:

No sex in heaven?! Then how is it heaven?! Will there be no wine and Doritos as well?!?!?

There is no sex in heaven because sex isnt for fun, its for procreation (obviously).  You dont get to have heavenly baybeez so... 

[formergothardite]

On 7/27/2018 at 6:33 PM, JermajestyDuggar said:

No sex in heaven?! Then how is it heaven?! Will there be no wine and Doritos as well?!?!?

I'm not sure how to tell you, but it appears there is no breakfast in heaven either. 

 

[Bad Wolf]

3 minutes ago, formergothardite said:

I'm not sure how to tell you, but it appears there is no breakfast in heaven either. 

 

Where do you find this stuff?

[KelseyAnn]

9 minutes ago, formergothardite said:

I'm not sure how to tell you, but it appears there is no breakfast in heaven either. 

 

If I can't have my brioche french toast once a month, I'm out. 

[justoneoftwo]

I'll admit I'm elitist, and I do hope my LO goes to college.  Why?  Because I was lucky enough to be able to go and I loved it, I loved what I learned, I loved the people I met, I loved the educational opportunities that had nothing at all to do with getting a job.  I thought it was great, I grew as a person and read the classics and all that.  Was it a good economic decision?  Probably not.  If thats not his thing then its not his thing, and thats fine.  Its not for everyone and I only hope he does it because I hope he shares some of my interests.  

When it comes to preparing you for life or making a tun of money (especially if we look at return on investment) college in general isn't the best idea, and the school I went to is a terrible one. (or was, they are changing some things)

[formergothardite]

8 minutes ago, Bad Wolf said:

Where do you find this stuff?

There is some weird religious stuff on YouTube if you look! 

[SapphireSlytherin]

51 minutes ago, justoneoftwo said:

 Because I was lucky enough to be able to go and I loved it, I loved what I learned, I loved the people I met, I loved the educational opportunities that had nothing at all to do with getting a job.  I thought it was great, I grew as a person and read the classics and all that.  

 

I'm going to get downvoted to shit for this one.

 

I can't even tell you how sad this made me. Why? Because it sounds like you're wanting to relive your college happiness, vicariously, through your child. What if s/he doesn't WANT to go? What if s/he goes and realizes that s/he hates the people, the classes, the experience, etc? What if s/he isn't "college material" - and that is a REAL thing, btw.

If he doesn't share your interests, are you going to be disappointed/upset? Because I don't share ANY interests with my father, and I certainly didn't share any with my mother...

 

So many people I know think high school (or college) was the BEST four years of their life and can't fathom that anyone else could possibly think it was a drudge and a "must do" to be endured.

 

I went to college (so did my parents, three of my grandparents, and two of my great-grandparents). It was expected. I had a blast, truly, but GryffindorDisappointment didn't WANT to go away to college. She got her AAS in Business Administration (at a local community college - NO LOANS), and she's pulling in 6 figures/year (at 27 years old) working an awesome job that she loves. 

 

 

[danvillebelle]

No downvote from me SapphireSlytherin - I agree with you.

My mother is one of the people you describe (her entire school career from K on was bliss for her and she simply cannot understand anyone who doesn't feel that way).  My older brother HATED school, went to summer school in order to graduate from high school early and never darkened the door of a classroom again.  It broke her heart.  So...yeah, it was never presented as an option for me to NOT go to college.  My first semester away was a disaster; I quit, came home, worked for a year and a half and then went to a tiny school and had a good experience.  The best things about it, though?  A mentor who inspires me to this day, and meeting my husband.  

We never, EVER pushed college for our kids.  I vowed I would never make my children feel the way I felt, and I kept to it.  If they choose to go as adults, that's their choice.  My oldest (24) still may go someday, and my youngest thinks she will get an associate's degree in something eventually.  The middle two?  Nope.  And I'm SO fine with that.

ETA: like my brother, I also pretty much loathed K-12 school, with a couple of exceptions (music classes and AP Biology).  I only ever enjoyed school when I got to college and had small classes in Bible & Religion and English.  

[justoneoftwo]

24 minutes ago, SapphireSlytherin said:

 

I'm going to get downvoted to shit for this one.

 

I can't even tell you how sad this made me. Why? Because it sounds like you're wanting to relive your college happiness, vicariously, through your child. What if s/he doesn't WANT to go? What if s/he goes and realizes that s/he hates the people, the classes, the experience, etc? What if s/he isn't "college material" - and that is a REAL thing, btw.

If he doesn't share your interests, are you going to be disappointed/upset? Because I don't share ANY interests with my father, and I certainly didn't share any with my mother...

 

So many people I know think high school (or college) was the BEST four years of their life and can't fathom that anyone else could possibly think it was a drudge and a "must do" to be endured.

 

I went to college (so did my parents, three of my grandparents, and two of my great-grandparents). It was expected. I had a blast, truly, but GryffindorDisappointment didn't WANT to go away to college. She got her AAS in Business Administration (at a local community college - NO LOANS), and she's pulling in 6 figures/year (at 27 years old) working an awesome job that she loves. 

 

 

Your right in a way, it does sound like I want to relive it through him.  No down votes for me.  In a way maybe I do.  Mostly I want to share things I love with him.  I hope he wants to.  If he doesn't I'll break a little sad but okay.  Currently he is into many things I really don't care about, but if it continues I will learn to love them.  

I do worry that my desire for him to enjoy things I enjoy will lead to non ideal situations.  I work hard to not force it on him.  I'm okay with being a little sad if he doesn't want to go to plays with me, being sad isn't the end of the world, but forcing him to do something he hates could be the end of a relationship.  

[FJismyheadship]

On 7/28/2018 at 10:10 PM, GutenbergGirl said:

I'm so glad to know I'm not the only one who was traumatized by the whole Rapture storyline!! (I mean... Not glad yall went thru that, too, but glad I'm not quite the freak I thought I was!) 

As a little kid, I thought Jesus was a kidnapper.  (I was about 4-5, and living near Atlanta when the Wayne Williams murders started.  So stranger danger was a HUGE thing.)  But, then our Pentecostal preacher would start jumping up and down, hollering about how "JEEEE-SUS is gonna swoop down outta that Eastern sky, and scoop little Robert and little Anna up, and carry them HOOOOO-ME!!!! And won't that be a GLOOOOR-IOUS day!?" 

Uh, no.  Little Anna wants nothing to do with this. She is happy as is, thankyouverymuch! 

I was constantly looking over my shoulder for this mysterious man who was gonna take me away from my family.  

I'm a couple of pages behind but I wanted to say. My great aunt passed last year. My daughter was four and ADORED my aunt. I told her "Jesus came to take Aunt Joy to heaven."

She told me later she was mad at Jesus for taking aunt Joy away. My therapist later said that maybe saying Aunt Joy went to heaven to be with Jesus would have been better, but at the time I didn't know how to tell a kid their favorite relative died.

[SapphireSlytherin]

28 minutes ago, danvillebelle said:

My first semester away was a disaster; I quit, came home, worked for a year and a half and then went to a tiny school and had a good experience.

Are you me? Because same. So much same. I had SUCH a blast - involving D&D, beer, parties, mac-n-cheese, dances... Notice what's missing? Classes?!?! lol

Worked for 18 months, saved 1/2 of every paycheck, went to the local community college to retake every class. Got a 4.0 when I was paying for it. lol My parents cut me off, money-wise, and I had to work and get grants for the rest of my college. No loans - my dad wouldn't co-sign for me, so some semesters I only took two classes. 
 

When I got back to the four-year school, I still had so much fun, but I did go to class and all that. haha

[Shouldabeenacowboy]

I fully appreciate that college is not for everyone and many people thrive and do extremely well without college degrees. My parents did not go to college and did very well for themselves. However, I know my mom really wanted to go to college but couldn't afford it, and my dad had the opportunity but did not go, and later regretted it, so perhaps that's why they really, really pushed the concept of a college education on my brother and I. I can't know for sure what would have happened if one/both of us had not wanted to pursue an advanced education - I have two masters and my brother a PhDs and we both loved the academic settings we were in - but I have a feeling it would not have gone down smoothly with my parents. Not saying that this is right, just stating what I believe would have happened. 

I'm going to be honest though- I truly hope my son decides to pursue higher education, for himself and regardless of his chosen profession. I don't care if he does that right out of high school, or after a few years of working, or as his "midlife crisis"    

[mango_fandango]

My school was selective, and yes, most of us did go to university. Some did an art foundation course (which is a sort of exploratory year where you learn about different mediums etc) then did art-related degrees. One girl did go straight to an internship with JP Morgan. 

I studied French and German at a “top” university... over here university ranking tables are BIG. The Russell Group consists of the 24 top research universities, and naturally includes places like Oxford and Cambridge and so on. Because I wanted to do German, I was rather limited in my choices. 

You apply through a central website rather than directly. You choose 5 places. I didn’t vastly prefer one of my choices over the other, but I did really like the one I eventually went to.

I don’t have kids. Would I encourage them to go to university? Probably. It depends what they want to do in life. It’d only be encouraging, not forcing or anything. If they wanted to do an apprenticeship or some kind of vocational course, or drama school or whatever, that’d be totally ok too. I’d also be OK if they tried it and didn’t enjoy it and dropped out. 

[Carm_88]

Four year degrees often lead to more four year degrees. BA's, BSC? What are you going to do with those? Debt. That's about it. It's a stepping stone degree. 

Not everyone is meant for university, I had a great time and made great friends. Doesn't mean it will be fun for everyone. I honestly think that gap years are a good idea. I graduated high school at 17 due to being born in November and honestly, probably wasn't that far behind the 18 year olds but looking back, a gap year may have been better for me. 

[Baxter]

My husband and I both went to University and now have well paying jobs. Our parents expected us to go but we were both lucky that tuition was paid for by them and we both lived at home while we went to school so that saved a lot. I'm in Canada so our university system is a bit different that in the US and typically a lot cheaper. However, because living expenses can really rack up, I was given the choice for my parents of going to the university in my city which is well regarded or if I wanted an experience away from home, I could go live with my sister and attend university there. I was perfectly happy to live at home.

I'm quite introverted and hated high school but I loved university. No partying for me. I loved the learning and found so many of my courses interesting and being surrounded by people who also were interested in learning like I was. My husband's perspective is different than mine. He went for practical reasons of getting a good job etc. But unless we felt that our son was not academically minded and wasn't able to handle the university coursework (too soon to tell, he's only two!), we would strongly encourage him to go because it widens your horizons. That being said, we're already saving for his tuition and hope that we will have enough at least to fund undergrad for him. If he was paying for it on his own then obviously there would be less pressure from us because we wouldn't be the ones with the debt.

There was also an understanding with my parents that if I wasn't taking my studies seriously then they were not going to be paying future tuition. But that was never really an issue for me. I think my husband and I would have the same understanding with our son.

[spatulahandeddancer]

1 hour ago, FJismyheadship said:

I'm a couple of pages behind but I wanted to say. My great aunt passed last year. My daughter was four and ADORED my aunt. I told her "Jesus came to take Aunt Joy to heaven."

She told me later she was mad at Jesus for taking aunt Joy away. My therapist later said that maybe saying Aunt Joy went to heaven to be with Jesus would have been better, but at the time I didn't know how to tell a kid their favorite relative died.

I don't think anyone would fault you for saying that, even if there are better ways of phrasing it.  Like you said, at the time, you didn't know how to do it, and that's a really hard thing to tell anyone, especially a kid.

 

My father-in-law is a pastor, and when my mom was dying of cancer, even though I'm not religious, I went to him a lot just to have someone to talk to.  I told him that I *hated* when people said that God just needed my mom in heaven....I called BS on that quickly, God has Da Vinci, Einstein, Washington, MLK, etc, God doesn't *need* my Mom as much as my family does.  He told me not to think of it as God needing to take her away, but to think of it as God walking with her through it. (He also had some strong opinions on the people who tried to paint God as selfish instead of loving and supporting)

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

6 hours ago, MargaretElliott said:

Ah shit, this thread drift is too real. I went to a school where the "college adviser"* pushed everyone to go to 4-year, private colleges. She even questioned my decision to go to a state school and encouraged me to apply to private schools. Lady, I don't care where I get my degree, I just want it to be close and cheap. Every single one of my friends went to expensive private schools, and a ton of them went out of state for their "dream school." This "adviser" put a ton of focus on finding the perfect school for you, no matter the cost or distance. The underlying message was, "if you don't find the perfect school for you, you'll be miserable." She also practically forced my sister into college (my sister is extremely smart, but not in ways that they counted in school) and she ended up flunking out and ending up with a bunch of debt and no degree to show for it. Same for my high school boyfriend - he went to a fancy private college out of state because that's what he thought he needed to do to succeed, and he couldn't take the stress, dropped out, then had to work off his debt without a degree. He also had some other issues that contributed to his dropping out, but if it had been a cheaper school, at least it would have affected him and his family less. Everyone bought her "private schools only" shit, and now they're all up to their eyeballs in debt, working shitty jobs because everyone has a BA nowadays. I mean, I may still have debt, but I have much less than my friends who went to private school. And I'm still working shitty jobs, but hey, I'm a millenial. Sometimes I wish I had learned welding or something. The few kids who went into trade schools/the military after high school were mocked for it then, but now, they're probably making more than the ones who went to fancy colleges.

 

*I'm putting the term in quotation marks because she sucked at her job

Not to "one up you" but MY guidance counselor told me in 1988 that I was, and I quote "a pretty girl I shouldn't have any problems landing a husband before I have to take any hard classes at Uni." I wish I was kidding, and as annoying as it was, it sadly wasn't my 1st sexually discriminatory or harassment scenario I had encountered (I was 17).  He started off by asking if I was going for my MRS degree (and in my naivety asked him what that meant). I remember leaving his off so pissed off that he was telling me I was too stupid to go to college, and when I told my dad he laughed and said "well only if your lucky". It was years before I realized what a sexist pig my father is, but that was the 1st time I remember thinking this sucks, not being taken seriously because I'm "cute" and have big boobs.