John David and Abbie Grace 3: Rapture Pending

[3KidsAndStopped]

I agree that in their circle J'Chelle are probably viewed as the ideal  to aspire to (tragic really) but as a headship, I think Boob is very weak-my theory is that he was basically infatuated with a cheerleader & Michelle has been able to lead him pretty much wherever she has wanted to, made all the more alluring to him by her flattering him as being the centre of all-the movement to which they belong might be patriachal but imo there is only one boss in that family. It reminds me very much of when John Major became PM in the UK and everyone knew he was just Margaret Thatcher's puppet.

[KelseyAnn]

10 hours ago, eveandadam said:

Man, I think Jill and the other Duggar girls must be feeling at least at a little cheated out of their opportunities when they see Abbie. A pilot and a nurse? Talk about a fundie power couple even if she stopped going to work to have children, but she can always go back to work.

Does this mean Abbie has a college or even a Master's degree? I don't know about nursing in the U.S., sorry.

Hopefully (wishful thinking) Jenny realizes that if Abby can be a nurse, she can damn sure be a vet. 

[feministxtian]

1 hour ago, 3KidsAndStopped said:

I agree that in their circle J'Chelle are probably viewed as the ideal  to aspire to (tragic really) but as a headship, I think Boob is very weak-my theory is that he was basically infatuated with a cheerleader & Michelle has been able to lead him pretty much wherever she has wanted to, made all the more alluring to him by her flattering him as being the centre of all-the movement to which they belong might be patriachal but imo there is only one boss in that family. It reminds me very much of when John Major became PM in the UK and everyone knew he was just Margaret Thatcher's puppet.

J'chelle leads JB around by his dick. I think she was the driving force behind the kids, the ATI shit, the extreme fundamentalism. He's still all giggly about catching the cheerleader. 

[ati_escapee]

ME TOO. I had that fear for a while. 

On 7/27/2018 at 1:55 PM, Rachel333 said:

That is funny but wow, that would have traumatized me at one point! I was terrified of the rapture as a kid (and even later, really) and of any signs that I might have been left behind. I'd panic just from not being able to find my family right away, so I can't imagine what it would have done to me to actually see bodies fly up into the air! I've found out since through speaking with other people who were raised with the same beliefs how incredibly common those fears are.

On a different note, it looks like those blow up dolls have clothes on. Everyone knows we leave our clothes behind and fly to Heaven naked! 

(In case anyone is unfamiliar with the idea of the rapture, Christians who believe in it really do believe that you get raptured out of your clothes.)

 

[agentshade]

3 hours ago, KelseyAnn said:

Hopefully (wishful thinking) Jenny realizes that if Abby can be a nurse, she can damn sure be a vet. 

That reminds me. A few months ago, I was browsing the Duggar blog, and found the page listing their daughters, where I noticed something. When asked what their future plans were, all of the younger girls stated a specific profession (Hannie wanted to be a doctor, Jordyn an artist, etc). But all the older girls planned to be a either be a wife and mother, go on missions, or both. The only exception being Jana, who had no future plans listed.

Coincidence? I think not.

[louisa05]

18 hours ago, 3SecondSideHugger said:

LOL the sad thing is I was sooo innocent and really thought God would strike me down with lightning if I used his name in vain... glad those days of living in fear were short. My school one day had this big meeting with everyone and made us stand up and swear that we would never ever read Harry Potter because it was witchcraft/wizardry. My parents pulled us out the next week and we started at a nonreligious school lolol 

The Christian school asked me to write up a piece for the parent newsletter about why they shouldn't let their kids read Harry Potter (I was the lit teacher with the most seniority at the time). I said I couldn't comment because I had never read any of it. Of course, they didn't understand that reasoning at all as censoring stuff you actually know nothing about is just fine with them. 

The whole thing made me curious, so I went to a Barnes & Noble and picked up the first one and started reading. Got hooked, bought it and the second book (all that was out yet then) and read every book and saw every movie. 

Someone else who had never picked up one of the books wrote their little scare piece for the newsletter. 

[tabitha2]

14 hours ago, eveandadam said:

Does this mean Abbie has a college or even a Master's degree? I don't know about nursing in the U.S., sorry.

 

She got her Education from an accredited technical school. It’s better than the Duggars but it’s not a college degree.

[xlurker]

7 minutes ago, tabitha2 said:

it’s not a college degree.

Not everyone needs/wants a college degree.  Technical certificates (LPN, mechanic, plumber etc) are also a viable career path.

 

This is in no way directed @tabitha2  Just noticing a lot of "its not college" and wanted to make a point.  That post just happened to be the most recent that I quoted. 

[jqlgoblue]

It's a good thing that Abbie was allowed to train w/ secular people and could work outside the home. I presume though that her nursing skills were meant to be put to use in a Christian setting or for people they directly know.

I do wonder what she was up to in the intervening years. If she graduated HS at 18 then there were what 6-7 years in between.

[PainfullyAware]

I just worry that assuming Michelle is the real mastermind kind of minimizes the sexism and patriarchy of the whole religion? Like being 'joyfully available', doing laundry at 2 am because it's her problem alone, having her body and clothes and hair policed? She may have bought it hook line and sinker and foisted it on the kids but that doesn't mean she isn't belittled, policed or shamed daily.

[JemimaPuddle-Duck]

3 minutes ago, PainfullyAware said:

I just worry that assuming Michelle is the real mastermind kind of minimizes the sexism and patriarchy of the whole religion? Like being 'joyfully available', doing laundry at 2 am because it's her problem alone, having her body and clothes and hair policed? She may have bought it hook line and sinker and foisted it on the kids but that doesn't mean she isn't belittled, policed or shamed daily.

But we don’t know that she is belittled, policed, or shamed daily either 

[Shadoewolf]

Got to admit, "it's not college" raised MY indignation a bit. There are plenty of profitable tech school programs without a degree attached. I went to a tech school to become a medical assistant and I can do quite a bit.  Drawing blood, giving shots, EKG's, breathing treatments, bladder cancer treatments via catheter, removing sutures, etc. I can run your dip strip urinalysis for UTI's, blood and pregnancy. Check your blood sugar.  Then there's the training on medical coding (it was CPT's and ICD-9 at the time) and learning several electronic medical record programs. Now there's MAP protocols to track opioid abuse. I spent 6-8 hours a day, 5 days a week for a year in the classroom and lab then several months in an externship in an office. I studied just what I needed to do my job and do it right. 

I get indignant about college with Hubby too. He's a damn good chef but he didn't go to some fancy culinary school though he got accepted to 2 of the big ones most of the celebrity chefs attend. He couldn't afford it. Instead he started as a dishwasher at 14 and spent the last 20 years on the line working his way through the ranks. But do you know how many potential employers wouldn't even consider him because he doesn't have a degree from Johnson and Wales? It's stupid. 

I give Abbie full props for going to some sort of post secondary school and doing something productive. I just hope she continues after they get married!

[Rachel333]

I agree, "it's not college" can come across as minimizing the accomplishments of people who went to technical schools.

The one thing I will say though is that a fundie woman getting a certification like LPN is different than a fundie woman becoming a veterinarian. I can see fundie families approving a relatively short course that can be done while living at home much more readily than the 4 years of college plus 4 years of veterinary school required to become a veterinarian. It's a big commitment, very similar to becoming a medical doctor (and from what I've heard, veterinary school can be harder to get into than medical school), and that would be a lot for a fundie woman.

[Shadoewolf]

However, there are non-degree vet tech/vet assistant programs all over the country should any of the Duggarlings want to pursue the animal care route!

[Rachel333]

2 minutes ago, Shadoewolf said:

However, there are non-degree vet tech/vet assistant programs all over the country should any of the Duggarlings want to pursue the animal care route!

True! There are ways to work with animals other than being a veterinarian. Ideally, though, they could have the full ability to choose which path they would like to pursue.

[SassyPants]

JB/M drained the curiosity and independence out of their kids as well as severely limiting their academic education. Additionally,  they rather poorly role  modeled a healthy work ethic and sustained effort. In a nutshell, JB/M made it very difficult for most of their adult kids to function in the adult world away from Duggarville. Without the TV  $how, most would be in a world of hurt.

[tabitha2]

Maybe the boys who are expected to be sble to support a wife and umpteen children. The daughters would have relied solely on their husbands to support them so effectively makeing them not  JBs financial burden. They would have actually enforced to the leave and cleave idea not just gave it lip service.

[SassyPants]

24 minutes ago, tabitha2 said:

Maybe the boys who are expected to be sble to support a wife and umpteen children. The daughters would have relied solely on their husbands to support them so effectively makeing them not  JBs financial burden. They would have actually enforced to the leave and cleave idea not just gave it lip service.

Actually, I think the Bates are a good example of this. They did not have the resources of JB/M, so their married kids have had to leave and cleave. I don’t think Gil is supplying his married kids with houses.

[GuineaPigCourtship]

It's also worth mentioning that degrees like veterinarian (and I assume medical doctor) can almost never be achieved without carrying significant debt.  The cost of the graduate programs are rising, financial assistance/scholarships are almost nonexistent (at least in the vet school world), and the programs are meant to be completed in 4 years without exception.  You cannot work and go to school part time, as you are in school for 8-10 hours per day and then studying beyond that.  I doubt JB would pay for something like that and he has not wasted any opportunity to impress upon his kids how awful it would be if they used student loans.

Source: I am a veterinarian with a crushing mountain of debt and I had no undergrad debt AND worked part time through the first part of vet school.

[xlurker]

11 hours ago, Rachel333 said:

veterinary school can be harder to get into than medical school)

It is.  Lurkerling2 always wanted Vet school--and was on her way before changing her mind.  Lots of those that were pre vet and continued to grad school went to MED school.  Easier to get into, not that medicine is easy, but there are only like 25 vet schools in the country (US) A good portion of the kids that get into vet school go abroad to get there.

1 hour ago, GuineaPigCourtship said:

I am a veterinarian with a crushing mountain of debt

Big reason my Lurkerling did not pursue it.  Still works very closely with animals, just not in a vet's office.  That's also not to say she is easily paying her undergrad student loans....

[louisa05]

14 hours ago, Rachel333 said:

I agree, "it's not college" can come across as minimizing the accomplishments of people who went to technical schools.

 

This. Many people in the U.S. tend to delegitimize the option of trade and technical schools or even two year degrees at community colleges. As a secondary teacher, I find the push for all kids to pursue a 4 year degree inappropriate for so many students. And it ignores the fact that a lot of trade/technical school certifications will make students a better living than a lot of four year degrees. A lot of technical jobs or jobs that require associate's degrees only can make a lot more than the very teachers who are telling kids they must go to a four year college make. 

[OhNoNike]

So... the plumber we call charges $75 for the call out and he lives 5 mins away. I’ve called him to do shit other people could probably do by themselves, because I don’t know how or don’t want to do (frankly).  Just throwing it out there - there’s always a need for good folks in trade and they probably do a lot better than people who have degrees with office jobs (and debt). 

[SapphireSlytherin]

I've posted this before (probably) and will (likely) do so again.

https://www.npr.org/sections/ed/2018/04/25/605092520/high-paying-trade-jobs-sit-empty-while-high-school-grads-line-up-for-university

 

[Audrey2]

Not to mention that the trade jobs are less likely to be outsourced or done by a robot, especially jobs like HVAC, electrician, plumber, etc. I can even see schools going to mostly online instruction in the next 50 years...

I should add, I hold a Master's in Education, but would definitely not go that route if I were in my twenties today. I'd probably train in a health related profession.

[feministxtian]

I'm with the others who get bent over this looking down at trade schools or 2 year tech degrees vs. a 4 year degree. 

I have a 2 year AAS degree. I have a niche skill that is highly unlikely to be taken over by a robot. One of my kids is pursuing at least a bachelor's. She's in debt up to her eyeballs and will be lucky to pay off her loans before she dies. One kid managed to score college on the GI bill...and he quit. He's making serious bank w/o the degree, travels the world and will probably be a millionaire or better by the time he's 40 (he's in his early 30's now). Other kid is working on getting his journeyman electrician papers...no college there...apprenticeship. Kid makes 35 bucks an hour. 

Hub did a 3 month phlebotomy course...if he was to work full time in a clinical setting instead of part-time at the testing lab he currently works at, he'd be making some pretty damn good money too. 

Enough with the college shit...it's elitist as fuck (and I don't give a damn if you downvote me)