Jinjer 41: Felicity Nicole 8 lb 3 oz

[VelociRapture]

29 minutes ago, SorenaJ said:

I would still have a problem if the intent was only to make a girl look cute, but not boys. Yes, pink and flowers and frills are cute, but why is it only the girls who have to look pretty and cute? 

If if you are only doing it to girls, then you are sayings girls must look pretty and cute, boys don’t have to, they can look however they want. 

I never said only little girl clothes look cute. In fact, I specifically said any child of any sex in the portion quoted. Stereotypical boy clothes can look just as adorable as stereotypical girl clothes. And I maintain what I stated - if the child is healthy and happy and is allowed to decide their own likes and dislikes once they’re able to then I have no issue with it. I doubt any of the married Duggars will do that, which I will have a problem with if/when that time comes.  

[nausicaa]

18 hours ago, ViolaSebastian said:

This reminded me of the Mormon mommy blogger Love Taza, who didn't give her daughters middle names so that they can move their maiden name to their middle name when they get married. 

I wonder how common this is. I have a progressive Mormon friend who wasn't given a middle name for the same reason. She seemed to think this is normal.

I just quietly gave an invisible camera a Jim from The Office look...

[Rachel333]

From what I've read, the no middle name for girls thing is common among Mormons. I could see how someone could think of it as making it easier for women to keep their identity when getting married, rather than just losing their surname completely, but I think it would bother me quite a bit if I weren't given a middle name while my brothers were, and the expectation that a woman will definitely get married and change her name is disturbing.

On a different note, I still keep reading about "Felicity's clothes" and thinking about clothes like this:

(I wonder if Felicity will get a Felicity doll someday. Do they have any issues with American Girl dolls? I know some fundies do.)

[singsingsing]

Sadly I think the Felicity doll has been discontinued. She was my favourite when I was a kid and my dream was to own the Felicity doll and all her accessories. I searched on a whim as an adult, and she’d been retired or something.

[tabitha2]

Or This Felicity of the Curls and Frilled nightmare

 

[Rachel333]

50 minutes ago, singsingsing said:

Sadly I think the Felicity doll has been discontinued. She was my favourite when I was a kid and my dream was to own the Felicity doll and all her accessories. I searched on a whim as an adult, and she’d been retired or something.

She's back, actually. They've retired and re-released several dolls. Here's the current lineup: https://www.americangirl.com/shop/ag/beforever

[LiterallyBananas]

12 hours ago, SuperNova said:

I raised my daughter gender neutral before it was a widely accepted concept. Being a 16 year old mom, it raised some eyebrows. I dressed her like a typical baby girl but let her choose clothing as soon as she could make choices for herself. She often wore everything at once, like a ruffled pink skirt with a dark blue dinosaur shirt. I offered all types of toys as well and she loved to push her babies around in her tonka truck. She never liked cute stuff at Halloween and would pick career type or spooky costumes. The year she turned six she was a firefighter with a little plastic axe and everything. We were trick or treating and an old woman opened the door and said, "Oh my! What a cute little fireman you are!" Baby Nova looked at the woman like she was the six year old and said "Noooo, I'm a firewoman." 

In the lower grades her look was more accepted but as she reached 5th and 6th grades and beyond, kids definitely became more cruel in their appraisal of her choices. She had what would be considered a boys haircut and wore all kinds of unique clothing choices. Sometimes she looked like a typical girl and other times not so much. She's a grown woman and is still the same way. It can be challenging to be a gender neutral person and it's important to give your child a strong support system and a positive sense of self.

Sorry for the novel but I love this topic. It was a lonely view to have when I raised my kid and it's wonderfully comforting to read that it's more widely accepted now.

I wish I could upvote, love, agree, and rufus bless your comment all at once, more than once. 

Being a 16 year old is hard enough, without trying to raise a child. Your parenting style sounds like it was wise beyond your years. 

It's seems silly to me to nitpick over what a child wants to wear or what their interests are. As long as they aren't streaking in the middle of winter and obsessed with reinstating medieval torture or whatever, embrace who they are! 

I think about this video a lot when browsing Free Jinger. "Children Will Listen" from Into The Woods starts at 1:33. 

Spoiler

 

 

[nickelodeon]

Surely the Duggar ladies read the American Girl books growing up (those dolls are spendy as heck though), plus L.M. Montgomery. Isn't Thou Shalt Idealize 18th/19th Century Girlhood the eleventh IBLP commandment or something?

[Lisafer]

16 hours ago, lumpentheologie said:

This sure changes for adults, though, especially after your 20s. I live in black, gray, navy, and maroon and never considered them 'boy' colors. 

I had to laugh--I read your post and looked at myself to check what I was wearing. Olive drab capris and a gray Deadpool t-shirt! I think you're right, lol. 

I have two boys. The older one prefers camo, blues and grays, and he prefers his hair cut short. The 18-month old has long, beautiful baby curls and is happy to push his doll around in its pink stroller. I adore the way children inquire about his sex--straightforwardly. One little girl looked me in the eye and asked politely, "Is it a 'him'?" It was so cute!

[Iamtheway]

16 hours ago, Rachel333 said:

It's because "boy stuff" tends to be seen as more neutral while "girl stuff" is seen as just for girls, like how girls will consume media with boys as the main character but boys tend to avoid media with girls as the main character.

I make an effort to find books (and shows) with girl leads for Miniway. And right now he still can’t really tell the difference between girls and boys. He has started to say that things are ”girl things” but he doesn’t seem to think any less of those things or that it means he can’t have them. 

He is often mistaken for a girl. He wants to have long hair and that makes everyone assume he’s a girl no matter what else he is wearing. He’s been called a girl when he’s been in blue shoes, jeans, blue top with cars on it and a blue hat. 

[HereticHick]

38 minutes ago, nickelodeon said:

Surely the Duggar ladies read the American Girl books growing up (those dolls are spendy as heck though), plus L.M. Montgomery. Isn't Thou Shalt Idealize 18th/19th Century Girlhood the eleventh IBLP commandment or something?

Sadly, I don't think we have any evidence that the Duggarlings have read any fiction that isn't explicitly fundy Christian. The American Girls don't fit that criteria.

[Ivycoveredtower]

1 minute ago, HereticHick said:

Sadly, I don't think we have any evidence that the Duggarlings have read any fiction that isn't explicitly fundy Christian. The American Girls don't fit that criteria.

wasn't there something about the Duggs watching Little house. american girl falls into that type of category so maybe. the bates I would bet read American girl. they seem to be more book based then the Duggs

[apandaaries]

17 hours ago, MarblesMom said:

My stepson and his baby birther made up a last name for their children.  Legal in CA.

 

I knew folks in the Bay Area who gave their four kids the last names of various socialist heroes (think Guevara as a last name, but just for one kid). 

 

15 hours ago, SuperNova said:

I raised my daughter gender neutral before it was a widely accepted concept.

I tried to do the same. Seared into my brain is a gender studies professor telling us about how they attempted to do a study with infants and asked the parents to bring in babies in white shirts with blue pants, thinking this was a gender-neutral fashion choice. Instead, all the baby girls were covered in ruffles, frills, bows, and other accoutrements, and they had to suspend the study. Also included in that course was the information that baby boys are more often praised for their strength and intelligence (even when in a stroller), while baby girls are complimented on their looks and appearance. It killed me to think that strangers would make these assumptions and run with them, while my developing kid would hear praise that was quite gendered. 

So when I did get pregnant, the invitations included the tidbit that both mother and gestating fetus were both allergic to pink.  We still received pink clothes, but we also got more gender neutral options and/or masculine options, which was lovely. It was also later wonderful to see how strangers responded to a baby whose sex was not immediately identifiable. They often inquired about whether it was a boy or girl they were complimenting before making further statements.

I definitely understand that gender roles/assumptions are much more than just blue or pink attire, but I also thought starting off early with a good offense was a solid way to prepare for later assumptions. 

[xlurker]

i may be wrong, its been a long time.  But aren't the American Girl books about independent girls?  Based in certain time frames, but still a strong female role model.  That would not be in a Duggar home!

 

[Mama Mia]

7 hours ago, SorenaJ said:

I would still have a problem if the intent was only to make a girl look cute, but not boys. Yes, pink and flowers and frills are cute, but why is it only the girls who have to look pretty and cute? 

If if you are only doing it to girls, then you are sayings girls must look pretty and cute, boys don’t have to, they can look however they want. 

No you’re not. You are just choosing a different kind of cute for your baby boy clothes. Parents aren’t picking their baby boys first outfit, or outfits for photos or holidays saying “ hey, he’s a boy, IDGAF” . Monkeys are cute. Ducks are cute. Hoodies with dinasour spikes are cute. 

I really feel for the people who live in places where things are SO proscribed. In my area / experience / circle it’s not quite that bad. The most rigid gender roles, for boys, seem to be the 8- 12 ish range, with both younger and older kids having a lot more freedom.  But this is a VERY hipster / artsy / LGBT friendly area, and I think anything not specifically “masculine” gets rolled into that. Which definitely isn’t always good, but does at least give more options. As far as careers, there are definitely a lot of men nurses ( last time I was in the hospital I’d guess 1/4, with the younger ones being about 1/2 and 1/2. ) . A fair number of male pre-school and elementary school teachers. 

You do need to give the Duggar’s credit that they don’t seem to have rigid gender roles placed on their young children - all the littles seem to play with all the toys - it’s when they reach their teen years that they clamp down on them. 

 

[potato]

2 hours ago, Rachel333 said:

She's back, actually. They've retired and re-released several dolls. Here's the current lineup: https://www.americangirl.com/shop/ag/beforever

I'm still salty they didn't bring back Molly 

[bekkah]

7 minutes ago, potato said:

I'm still salty they didn't bring back Molly 

I have Josefina. She was my 8th birthday present, I was so happy to get her. 

[xlurker]

8 minutes ago, potato said:

'm still salty they didn't bring back Molly 

I have a Molly, as well as a Samantha and a Kit...I know there are a couple of others, just not sure of their names

 

[PennySycamore]

3 hours ago, Rachel333 said:

She's back, actually. They've retired and re-released several dolls. Here's the current lineup: https://www.americangirl.com/shop/ag/beforever

I spent a few minutes down the AG rabbit hole.  Like @potato, I'm sad they didn't bring back Molly and, for Pete's sake, would it kill Mattel to spring for some Asian doll head molds?  One of the complaints about the Asian boy Truly Me doll was that the eyes just looked like they had eye makeup on.  Hollywood used to use eye makeup in yellow- facing  white actors to look Asian.  Katherine Hepburn in yellowface doesn't look Chinese, but like a white woman in bad eye makeup.

[singsingsing]

Sadly the new Felicity doll is not the same as the old one... She also had wayyyyy more clothing and accessories, even furniture. I seem to recall you'd get an old-fashioned-looking chest/trunk if you ordered all the accessories, but I could be remembering wrong. Yes, I'm still salty I did not get her and all her accessories before she was retired. 

[mango_fandango]

If you’ve heard of the Gardner Quads, they’re a Mormon family and those girls have middle names, the mom explained why they chose the middle names (family names mostly, and then one with the middle name Faith). 

I wasn’t raised gender neutral, but I did have short hair for five-ish years, and when I went to nursery (3-4) I mostly wore t-shirts and leggings (not pink ones). I’m not a tomboy but I’m not sooper-dooper girly either. 

[artdecades]

1 hour ago, HereticHick said:

Sadly, I don't think we have any evidence that the Duggarlings have read any fiction that isn't explicitly fundy Christian. The American Girls don't fit that criteria.

I know that Joy was shown reading the Boxcar Children series when she was around 13. Not the most age appropriate but also not explicitly fundy Christian from my memory. 

[Runningfromreality]

8 hours ago, Glasgowghirl said:

Even if I find out the sex of any future kids, I may not tell anyone, so that I don't get a lot of pink or blue. I have no issue with the colours themselves but I want a mix of gender neutral and those colours. I was a girly girl until about 7 then I was a tomboy. I wore mostly tracksuits and football tops for a few years. 

 

This is exactly our plan right now. We'll find out the sex, but nobody else needs to know. We've already decided on a space themed nursery, so that doesn't change based on sex. And the clothes we'll buy for our child won't change too much based on sex but we'd still like to know. 

[metheglyn]

I have Kirsten and Samantha (although not my original ones from the late 80s, those were stolen when our house was robbed when I was 15, the replacements were bought in the mid-late 90s). I always got the sense that Samantha's head mold changed somewhere in the earlier years between the two versions I owned. I also have all of the original books, for other characters such as Molly as well, many editions from back when there were only the original three characters (Kirsten, Samantha, and Molly). 

I was born in the early 80s so was just the right demographic for the original books and then the American Girl Magazine when it first came out. I have many costumes and accessories (including Kirsten's rather large St. Lucia day candle headpiece) though little furniture, despite always lusting over it in the catalogs, since we moved a lot and that stuff is awkward to move around.

We were already moving a dollhouse that we built a 3x3x4 ft wooden crate for! (And hey, with cardboard on top the crate made an *excellent* dog grooming station between moves!) So adding beds etc. would have just added more stuff to ship and store.

[sparklymagie]

My sister has two boys, 11 and 8. I have two daughters, 3 and 6 months.  I hear my nephews use female-insulting language all of the time. Stuff like "ha ha, you throw like a girl!" Or when my younger nephew lost in a little game he was playing with my eldest daughter, the older nephew laughed and said, scornfully "you just lost to a girl!" 

I always try to do something to gently correct them when I hear it or look at them confused and ask "what's wrong with losing to a girl?" to express that it's an absurd thing to say. But it bothers me a lot because I don't want my girls to internalize that they are inferior because of things their cousins say (I know there's going to be a bigger battle with society as a whole, but this is family!). It's frustrating because my nephews adore my girls and I don't think of my sister and her husband as misogynistic but I don't know why they allow their boys to speak like that. I try to say something to my sister but she waves it off as boys being boys. She's my personal Jill so she doesn't take correction well and I can only push too much before she flounces. 

 

ETA: on a lighter note, I had the Samantha doll which my parents stretched to get me for Christmas one year. I never got any of the accessories but was thrilled to have the doll. Signing up for the American Girl catalog might have been one of the first things I did when I got pregnant the first time....