Jinjer 41: Felicity Nicole 8 lb 3 oz

[Ivycoveredtower]

Little Felicity got lucky if she'd waited two more days to be born she'd have to share a birthday with Jim Bob and Michelle's anniversary. 

[Clairice]

I really like the name Felicity  

Husband chose ds's name with my dad's name as middle

I got to choose dd's name, she was Grace for abut three days but it didn't suit her. She is named after two of her Great Grandmothers.

My two have fairly uncommon names, my name was number 2 in the charts for the year I was born. There was five of us in the same class in junior school !

[TShirtsLongSkirts]

I think Felicity is a really lovely name. I'm not American so I don't think of the doll but it reminds me of a book I read as a kid called Room 13. It was a horror book about Dracula and the main character was called Felicity, nicknamed Fliss. That would be a nice nickname, except maybe it sounds a bit too much like floss, lol. 

[3SecondSideHugger]

1 hour ago, NotQuiteMotY said:

Yeah, I think with second cousins that are not frequently seen, you have a pretty good argument! If you're closer physically or relationally (if that makes sense?) like my or @VelociRapture's examples, it can be a little harder. Though, seriously, if "Henry" is the baby's middle name, I'd still use it as a first name for mine.

ALL the time! Do you have the thing where once in a while it actually does what you want and the rest of the time doesn't? Just enough to give you hope?

I keep mine really long just so it weighs itself down enough to avoid the "piece sticking out" and "instant poodle, just add humidity" problems most of the time.

I just don't get why everything has to be so gendered. Like the first picture of Felicity posted by the families, where it's explosion of pink lace! It's not much better for everyday clothes, either. When I buy clothes I try to rule out the obnoxiously gendered ones, and that takes a lot of options away.

I’m not a girly girl, but my good friend recently had a baby. Shower was gender neutral and they weren’t finding out. She texts us all the first pic from the hospital and newborn baby is wearing a pink hat so all our friends were like OMG girl! But a few hours later we get the text with a very male name and are like...oh? It was indeed a boy just wearing pink hat 

[tabitha2]

I was buying stuff for a baby shower at Babies R Us one time and casually mentioned absolutely everything for girls was so so pink The sales attendant Put on a face that went from confused wto shocked like a called her grandma a hooker And then said slowly as if talking to a child “ But It’s.. for Girls”

[louisa05]

45 minutes ago, tabitha2 said:

I was buying stuff for a baby shower at Babies R Us one time and casually mentioned absolutely everything for girls was so so pink The sales attendant Put on a face that went from confused wto shocked like a called her grandma a hooker And then said slowly as if talking to a child “ But It’s.. for Girls”

This is another thing that people refuse to believe but by the time they hit preschool and primary grades (ages 3.5-7 for our non-American posters), girls are wearing every color of the rainbow and a few more, but boys are all wearing black, green, blue, camo prints, and the color of the nearest major sports team (red in my area). Nothing else. Because of the "OMG, girls don't get any clothes that aren't pink, we will all die from this!" rhetoric all over the place, I have taken to paying attention every day that I am in a preK-2 classroom. It is the boys that are being more limited in color choices. Not the girls. 

Also, "pink is bad" is a nice example of androcentrism. 

[tabitha2]

I think it’s a lot of times more about shades actually. You  will not put your girl in navy Blue  or Maroon sweater but Teal or Violet is acceptable. My boy won’t wear lavender but deep purple is ok.  Light, soft shades are feminine and dark, Rich shades are masculine 

 

[Ivycoveredtower]

I don't think Jill was at the birth she posted a blog about the baby and said they couldn't wait to see her. 

Quote

Congratulations Jinger and Jeremy on the arrival of little Felicity! We are super excited for y’all and we can’t wait to meet our little niece!

 

[MathQueen]

I am the only girl in my generation, sister-mom to my brothers, and mother to only MathBoys. Being a mom to wonderful sons is great, and I’ve really enjoyed it. However, if I am ever blessed with a granddaughter, it will be frills, ruffles, bows, and pink (as much as I dislike the color) until it’s out of my system or she can articulate her displeasure!

[Mama Mia]

51 minutes ago, louisa05 said:

This is another thing that people refuse to believe but by the time they hit preschool and primary grades (ages 3.5-7 for our non-American posters), girls are wearing every color of the rainbow and a few more, but boys are all wearing black, green, blue, camo prints, and the color of the nearest major sports team (red in my area). Nothing else. Because of the "OMG, girls don't get any clothes that aren't pink, we will all die from this!" rhetoric all over the place, I have taken to paying attention every day that I am in a preK-2 classroom. It is the boys that are being more limited in color choices. Not the girls. 

Also, "pink is bad" is a nice example of androcentrism. 

Absolutely. Although I see more of a color range for little boys here. But very much little girls can wear any color, any type of clothes and not even the most conservative person bats an eye. Boys roles and clothes and hair is still much more limited - especially as they move further into grade school.

[lumpentheologie]

1 hour ago, tabitha2 said:

I think it’s a lot of times more about shades actually. You  will not put your girl in navy Blue  or Maroon sweater but Teal or Violet is acceptable. My boy won’t wear lavender but deep purple is ok.  Light, soft shades are feminine and dark, Rich shades are masculine 

 

This sure changes for adults, though, especially after your 20s. I live in black, gray, navy, and maroon and never considered them 'boy' colors. 

[MarblesMom]

6 hours ago, 3SecondSideHugger said:

I have googled extensively and am 90% sure I can just pick a single last name for my offspring

My stepson and his baby birther made up a last name for their children.  Legal in CA.

 

[Mama Mia]

8 minutes ago, MarblesMom said:

My stepson and his baby birther made up a last name for their children.  Legal in CA.

 

I’m in California and know people who have done this. There wasn’t any special form or anything - they just put what they wanted on the birth certificate. 

[louisa05]

43 minutes ago, Mama Mia said:

Absolutely. Although I see more of a color range for little boys here. But very much little girls can wear any color, any type of clothes and not even the most conservative person bats an eye. Boys roles and clothes and hair is still much more limited - especially as they move further into grade school.

Get all the way into secondary and it is even more so. Especially in the semi-rural district I work in the most. Girls have more freedom in the area of clothing all the way around. And definitely in color. Boys in pastels, any print besides camo, etc...are going to get pushback from peers. 

At Christian school, girls were allowed to wear skirts or skorts all year as long as they were no shorter than 2 inches above the top of the kneecap. Boys had to wear long pants at all times. In an un-air conditioned building in the Midwest. Some of the staff totally went to bat on that finally and we got them to agree to allow shorts in August, September, April and May for all students. But prior to that, the girls had way better options for hot weather. 

[Rachel333]

It's because "boy stuff" tends to be seen as more neutral while "girl stuff" is seen as just for girls, like how girls will consume media with boys as the main character but boys tend to avoid media with girls as the main character.

In general people will have a far more negative reaction to a boy being dressed in stereotypical "girl" clothes  (even calling it abusive) than to a girl being dressed in "boy" clothes.

I think this has disturbing implications as to how people tend to see girls. Viewing girl stuff as lesser is harmful to how girls grow up to see themselves and how boys grow up to see girls and women.

[louisa05]

7 minutes ago, Rachel333 said:

It's because "boy stuff" tends to be seen as more neutral while "girl stuff" is seen as just for girls, like how girls will consume media with boys as the main character but boys tend to avoid media with girls as the main character.

In general people will have a far more negative reaction to a boy being dressed in stereotypical "girl" clothes  (even calling it abusive) than to a girl being dressed in "boy" clothes.

I think this has disturbing implications as to how people tend to see girls. Viewing girl stuff as lesser is harmful to how girls grow up to see themselves and how boys grow up to see girls and women.

It never ends. Jobs thought of as more typical for women are seen as less prestigious or worthy. Teaching, clerical work and nursing high on that list. New data is showing that as more women enter a traditionally male-dominated field, the average pay begins to drop. (Link from New York Times in 2016: https://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/20/upshot/as-women-take-over-a-male-dominated-field-the-pay-drops.html )

As for the media issue you brought up, at my last full time teaching job, we had a male principal try to get the English department to drop all the works with female protagonists as he found it "unfair" of us to make the boys read them. Girls reading books with male protagonists was just fine with him and he didn't see the problem with his request. 

When I subbed for a maternity leave this spring in an English classroom, I was there for final semester projects and had to check in and put away books. The teacher had worked hard to create a lit curriculum for that grade that exposed them to diverse cultures and ideas. Yet somehow, I realized looking though her stuff, she had done so while only featuring one out of eight novels for the year that had a female author and female protagonist. I'm proud to say the curriculum I did for one grade at my last school featured all female writers and main characters for major works (which was what was upsetting the principal--never mind, that the previous year featured NONE). 

There is a disturbingly subtle sexism in all of this. And I don't think the women protesting pink and girls in dresses realize that is what it all is. 

 

 

[Rachel333]

An interesting example is how in Russia doctors tend to be mostly women, and how, unlike in most of the rest of the world, being a doctor is a low-paid and low-respected job. https://cratesandribbons.com/2013/12/13/patriarchys-magic-trick-how-anything-perceived-as-womens-work-immediately-sheds-its-value/

I will say, though, that I don't think people are saying that there's anything wrong with the color pink itself! Just that the explosion of pink and ruffles for baby girls gets to be a bit ridiculous.

[FeministShrew]

Just this afternoon I heard a young mother tell her preschool-age son that pink could not be his favorite color.

Little boy: " Mommy, the soap is pink!"

Mom: "Yes it is!"

Little boy: "Mommy, my favorite color is pink soap!"

Mom: "Nooooo, it's not. Pink can't be your favorite color."  Then they left. Poor kid. 

[Nikedagain?]

3 hours ago, 3SecondSideHugger said:

I’m not a girly girl, but my good friend recently had a baby. Shower was gender neutral and they weren’t finding out. She texts us all the first pic from the hospital and newborn baby is wearing a pink hat so all our friends were like OMG girl! But a few hours later we get the text with a very male name and are like...oh? It was indeed a boy just wearing pink hat 

https://goo.gl/images/kjnd3W

[SuperNova]

I raised my daughter gender neutral before it was a widely accepted concept. Being a 16 year old mom, it raised some eyebrows. I dressed her like a typical baby girl but let her choose clothing as soon as she could make choices for herself. She often wore everything at once, like a ruffled pink skirt with a dark blue dinosaur shirt. I offered all types of toys as well and she loved to push her babies around in her tonka truck. She never liked cute stuff at Halloween and would pick career type or spooky costumes. The year she turned six she was a firefighter with a little plastic axe and everything. We were trick or treating and an old woman opened the door and said, "Oh my! What a cute little fireman you are!" Baby Nova looked at the woman like she was the six year old and said "Noooo, I'm a firewoman." 

In the lower grades her look was more accepted but as she reached 5th and 6th grades and beyond, kids definitely became more cruel in their appraisal of her choices. She had what would be considered a boys haircut and wore all kinds of unique clothing choices. Sometimes she looked like a typical girl and other times not so much. She's a grown woman and is still the same way. It can be challenging to be a gender neutral person and it's important to give your child a strong support system and a positive sense of self.

Sorry for the novel but I love this topic. It was a lonely view to have when I raised my kid and it's wonderfully comforting to read that it's more widely accepted now.

[metheglyn]

3 hours ago, Rachel333 said:

I will say, though, that I don't think people are saying that there's anything wrong with the color pink itself! Just that the explosion of pink and ruffles for baby girls gets to be a bit ridiculous.

I'm one of the people critiquing Felicity's clothing but I love pink! In fact, right now my nails have irridescent sparkly pink shellac polish on them with rainbow glitter on top of the polish! They're so stereotypically "girly" that my manicurist said they look like prom nails and I love it! (My previous color was metallic dark blue, but I added holo glitter over the top. Gimme ALL the sparkles.)

So personally I'm not saying anything is wrong with pink, just that J&J's choice seems over the top for the first clothes they put her in and distributed pictures of.

 

[SorenaJ]

There's nothing wrong with pink, but there's something wrong with  not dressing your boy in pink. Had Jinger and Jeremy had a boy, we would not be wearing the same outfit. 

[VelociRapture]

7 hours ago, louisa05 said:

It never ends. Jobs thought of as more typical for women are seen as less prestigious or worthy. Teaching, clerical work and nursing high on that list. New data is showing that as more women enter a traditionally male-dominated field, the average pay begins to drop. (Link from New York Times in 2016: https://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/20/upshot/as-women-take-over-a-male-dominated-field-the-pay-drops.html )

As for the media issue you brought up, at my last full time teaching job, we had a male principal try to get the English department to drop all the works with female protagonists as he found it "unfair" of us to make the boys read them. Girls reading books with male protagonists was just fine with him and he didn't see the problem with his request. 

When I subbed for a maternity leave this spring in an English classroom, I was there for final semester projects and had to check in and put away books. The teacher had worked hard to create a lit curriculum for that grade that exposed them to diverse cultures and ideas. Yet somehow, I realized looking though her stuff, she had done so while only featuring one out of eight novels for the year that had a female author and female protagonist. I'm proud to say the curriculum I did for one grade at my last school featured all female writers and main characters for major works (which was what was upsetting the principal--never mind, that the previous year featured NONE). 

There is a disturbingly subtle sexism in all of this. And I don't think the women protesting pink and girls in dresses realize that is what it all is. 

 

 

It’s possible. Maybe the more of a radical you are about it the less clear it is, but the women I know who aren’t fans of all pink and all dresses all the time (including myself) tend to understand what you’re saying fairly well. Same with those of us who were saying we weren’t fans of how Felicity was dressed for her first official photo. 

Personally, I just don’t like pink or super frilly stuff. When it comes to my daughter I dressed her in whatever was clean and comfortable as an infant. Now that she’s a toddler I offer her choices and let her pick - and yes, pink and stereotypically girly stuff are mixed in with more neutral or boyish stuff. When she’s able to help me shop for her clothes I’ll allow her to take the lead within reason (we live in New England, so she’ll need a range of options to stay warm and cool depending on the weather.) 

2 hours ago, SorenaJ said:

There's nothing wrong with pink, but there's something wrong with  not dressing your boy in pink. Had Jinger and Jeremy had a boy, we would not be wearing the same outfit. 

Yep. I said it before but I don’t have much of a problem with secular families dressing their kids like this because the ones I know typically don’t have super strict gender standards - they seem to do fine with allowing their kids to develop their own likes and dislikes. It’s fundies like JinJer and other IBLPers who give me pause because they are at a higher risk of developing those super strict gender standards as a result of the teachings of IBLP. 

It all has to do with intent and health. If you’re intent is to force super strict gender roles onto a kid (of any sex) from a very young age and that kid ends up unhealthy as a result then I have a massive problem with that. If your intent is just making your kid look cute, but you’re fine with them choosing their own likes as they grow then theres nonissue to me because it will likely help the kid grow up healthier and happier.

[Glasgowghirl]

Even if I find out the sex of any future kids, I may not tell anyone, so that I don't get a lot of pink or blue. I have no issue with the colours themselves but I want a mix of gender neutral and those colours. I was a girly girl until about 7 then I was a tomboy. I wore mostly tracksuits and football tops for a few years. 

 

[SorenaJ]

1 hour ago, VelociRapture said:

It all has to do with intent and health. If you’re intent is to force super strict gender roles onto a kid (of any sex) from a very young age and that kid ends up unhealthy as a result then I have a massive problem with that. If your intent is just making your kid look cute, but you’re fine with them choosing their own likes as they grow then theres nonissue to me because it will likely help the kid grow up healthier and happier.

I would still have a problem if the intent was only to make a girl look cute, but not boys. Yes, pink and flowers and frills are cute, but why is it only the girls who have to look pretty and cute? 

If if you are only doing it to girls, then you are sayings girls must look pretty and cute, boys don’t have to, they can look however they want.