Duggars By the Dozen 34: Lens Flare Photo with the Grandkids

[metheglyn]

It's not just your own actions that are potentially the cause of damage either. I hit in the head by a snowboarder's board when I was around 11ish. I don't remember if I'd fallen down, if the snowboarder somehow knocked me over while I was upright and then smacked me in the head, or if the snowboarder was flying through the air towards me (I'd been going down hairpin turns so the visibility wasn't very long) but I remember my dad ripping that snowboarder a new one. Thankfully I *had* been wearing a ski helmet so wasn't hurt, but that could have been bad.

40 minutes ago, Georgiana said:

It's interesting to note that Nicholas II and George V of the UK were close.  Not only did they look exceptionally alike (they were regularly mistaken for the other, even at family gatherings), they also were VERY similar in personality.  George V is largely considered a very good king, if not a great one.  Had Nicky been given the role of George V in a constitutional monarchy where his role would have been largely as a figurehead, we would almost certainly remember him quite differently.  Like George V, Nicky was a great family man who cultivated genuine domestic harmony.  He cared deeply and personally for his subjects.  He would sacrifice almost anything for his country, including his own life.  Yet sadly the one thing he couldn't sacrifice was what doomed him: he refused to marry for duty as opposed to love, something many royals struggled with in the modern era.  His marriage was one of the few times Nicholas did something for purely selfish reasons.

And ultimately he paid for his marriage in his own blood. 

And the political unrest in Russia leading to the potential for increased unrest in the UK is one of the primary reasons why George V and some of his advisors turned down Nicholas's request to evacuate the family to the UK in 1917 (prior to the Bolshevik revolution), even though Parliament had initially agreed to offer them asylum. If they'd chosen to go to a neutral country they likely would indeed have survived. George V was so worried about political unrest in his country and his duty to his subjects that he essentially abandoned one of his closest relatives to their death.

[BlessaYourHeart]

4 hours ago, Mama Mia said:

I don’t ride, but I’ve NEVER seen a photo of kids on horses wearing helmets - ever. And I live in extremely rule governed California. Maybe if they are a pre-schooler, or jumping or racing them? But just riding slowly along a trail? That seems really odd. And all those boys are at least  10? 12? 

What happens if a mouse or squirrel or something else spooks the horse on the trail? Horses are big animals and even at walking pace when startled can buck and throw a rider or take off at speed and a rider can fall off. If that rider isn’t wearing a helmet, it doesn’t matter about age or experience, serious injury can happen. 

I had a friend take my main horse out a quiet hack on a country trail. I didn’t know she wasn’t wearing a helmet or else she wouldn’t have been near my boy. Now as I mentioned my horse is old and the mellowest horse I’ve ever come across. However, he hates cats, he’s terrified of them. They met a cat on the trail and he spooked, panicked and took off. Thankfully she didn’t fall off, but came very close to it. She now won’t ride without a helmet, even if it’s just taking a horse from a the field up into the stables. No matter how mellow a horse is or how well you know them, you cannot trust that something won’t happen and lead to an accident. 

Not to mention kids, even at 10 or 12 aren’t anywhere near as strong as an adult and therefore won’t have the same control over a horse as an adult. 

It can take as little as a rider not paying attention for a split second for something serious to happen. 

Its like driving a car without a seatbelt, even if you’re driving at 10mph on a quite road, a car can still come from nowhere at speed and cause serious injury. 

Sorry for the long posts about thread drift, but I’ve been around horses my whole life and feel very passionate about the subject 

[Mama Mia]

1 minute ago, BlessaYourHeart said:

What happens if a mouse or squirrel or something else spooks the horse on the trail? Horses are big animals and even at walking pace when startled can buck and throw a rider or take off at speed and a rider can fall off. If that rider isn’t wearing a helmet, it doesn’t matter about age or experience, serious injury can happen. 

I had a friend take my main horse out a quiet hack on a country trail. I didn’t know she wasn’t wearing a helmet or else she wouldn’t have been near my boy. Now as I mentioned my horse is old and the mellowest horse I’ve ever come across. However, he hates cats, he’s terrified of them. They met a cat on the trail and he spooked, panicked and took off. Thankfully she didn’t fall off, but came very close to it. She now won’t ride without a helmet, even if it’s just taking a horse from a the field up into the stables. No matter how mellow a horse is or how well you know them, you cannot trust that something won’t happen and lead to an accident. 

Not to mention kids, even at 10 or 12 aren’t anywhere near as strong as an adult and therefore won’t have the same control over a horse as an adult. 

It can take as little as a rider not paying attention for a split second for something serious to happen. 

Its like driving a car without a seatbelt, even if you’re driving at 10mph on a quite road, a car can still come from nowhere at speed and cause serious injury. 

Sorry for the long posts about thread drift, but I’ve been around horses my whole life and feel very passionate about the subject 

Ok. Like I said. It just surprised me, as I didn’t know it was a thing. Kind of like the first time you see a grade schooler in a booster seat.

[Rachel333]

Age doesn't matter. Even adults should be wearing helmets.

[Shadoewolf]

Any place I've ever gone horseback riding required helmets for anyone under the age of 18. Adults could decide for themselves but it was strongly encouraged. I require my kiddos, even the autistic one, to wear bike helmets for biking and rollerblading too.  Every.single.time.

I too wonder how the Forsyth's get away with no helmets even being available as it relates to insurance/liability.

[SayWhat]

In the process of Watching Counting On...just watched Jinger & Jeremy's Anniversary celebration.

Jeremy knocked his first anniversary celebration it out of the park ! Total Home Run, from the first gift at the restaurant, to the piano, to arranging her family to visit.  IMHO He has been the best fundie for Jinger, within her world.  Very Happy for her.  YMMV. Hope the Duggar boys take some lessons from Jeremy. 

Also, I  normally can't stand seeing Me chelle and the Boob but it was great to see Jinger enjoy her family's visit.  No matter how much I think they have sucked as parents, it was clear Jinger misses them.  Seemed like one of the few Duggar interactions that was not staged.  

Onto watch the rest of the episode...

[Knight of Ni]

A few posts back I mentioned riding without helmets on a friend’s horse. I just remembered that her older sister fell off a horse and injured herself. A driver found her unconscious on the side of the road. The horse had walked back home. 

[NakedKnees]

I LOVE reading all of this input about the Russian Monarchy. I'm extremely fascinated with revolution-era Russia right now, but can't shake this nagging feeling that it's hard to find accurate texts about it, and also that being educated in the US has probably shaped my perceptions to a large extent. Overall, I think Alexander's decisions on Bloody Sunday sealed his fate over a decade in advance (and he had some "hindsight is 20/20" thoughts about it too, but that's no excuse). The other thing is that if the Russian soldiers hadn't had such a rough deal in WWI, especially toward the end, I don't know how much steam I think the revolution would have gathered, and I don't know how much of that is to blame on the monarchy or even on Russia's allies that were depending on the country in the Eastern front. 

So, that's a giant list of things I don't know, but I just started really studying WWI in-depth in the last year and wanted to chime in.

********************************

In regards to helmets and horses- I don't want to make the "I didn't wear one and I turned out okay" argument because I know it's dumb. I'm just a little bit surprised (and happy to be educated). I grew up in a very helmet-conscious community in the 90s... biking, skiing/snowboarding, I've always used them. That said, I went to ranch camp for several years and we didn't need to use them with horses until we started trotting. I remember that being considered intermediate, if that, but the whole camp was typically starting from 0 so there was still a lot of time spent without helmets.

Anyway, now I in no way deny that helmets are necessary on horses, but I just learned that here and it's a bit surprising for me as a helmet-evangelist, particularly for biking. I saw my father get in 2 serious cycling accidents when I was young, and those personal experiences really do get seared into your memory.

The point I'm trying to make is that I definitely feel both surprised at needing helmets for light recreational riding but also understanding about it, upon a very little bit of thought. I suspect I'm not alone here. Thanks, everyone who can be informative without being condescending!

[keen23]

I have a scar on my chin from where my pony threw me from the saddle when I was 5. She refused to take a jump, I took it without her. Having the helmet on meant I just have the scar on my chin, and didn't split open my head.

[SilverBeach]

21 hours ago, Georgiana said:

They were insufficient people. 

This has given me something to think about.

1 hour ago, NakedKnees said:

Thanks, everyone who can be informative without being condescending!

Yes, this is great when it happens. I caught hell on here because back in my day (thirty plus years ago), pregnancy duration was commonly expressed in months and my OB never told me how far along I was in weeks. A very nice poster gave an informative explanation of weekly gestation dating without calling me stupid or expressing disbelief that I could be so dumb. I love FJ but there are times that some members can be unnecessarily unkind to other members.

[Carm_88]

I don't think Nicholas II or Alexandra were bad people. Nicholas just could not have been a worse person chosen to lead Russia. Russia needed a strong leader and Nicholas was very much a follower, not a leader. Alexei being a serious hemophiliac changed their lives because they couldn't talk about it. It had to be hidden. Alexandra came in after Nicholas' father had died and the Russians didn't like that. Then there were the revolts after the coronation or marriage, which killed thousands of people. Yes, it was messed up by Sergei, Nicholas' uncle, but he was also Nicholas' brother in law. He was married to Alexandra's sister, Elisabeth. 

The strain of having four daughters, the disappointment of not only Nicholas' family but the whole country, then having the prized heir to know he may not live very long; I think it broke Nicholas and Alexandra. They loved their daughters, but they could not take the throne. They loved their son, but Alexei's condition was serious. Even Queen Victoria's son Leopold didn't have as bad a case as Alexei. 

[kmachete14]

RE horse riding 

My grandma owns a horse. She wears a helmet however some of her friends do not when out trail riding. At the barn where the horse is stabled, everyone on their property must wear a helmet. Any kids doing the camp or tourists doing trail rides must wear a helmet. I don't think it's odd if say, Trace Bates doesn't wear a helmet while riding his own horse on his own property. It really surprises me that at a camp they wouldn't make their patrons wear a helmet! I think it's disturbing also makes me question if they even have insurance? What kind of insurers would say it was ok for a horse riding camp not to have the riders wear helmets? Maybe they just sign a waiver? Seems dumb to me. As someone mentioned before, horses can be spooked by tiny things. 

In the end I guess it's along the same lines as hiking in flip-flops, not wearing seatbelts, etc. all the dumb shit fundies seem to do an awful lot. 

[Chickenbutt]

Maybe an FJ attorney can read and decipher this. It sounds like legal mumbo jumbo to me. Is there some kind of release buried in this mess somewhere? It looks like it only covers the privacy end of things to me. 

https://www.fortrock.org/privacy/

[JordynDarby5]

5 hours ago, Carm_88 said:

I don't think Nicholas II or Alexandra were bad people. Nicholas just could not have been a worse person chosen to lead Russia. Russia needed a strong leader and Nicholas was very much a follower, not a leader. Alexei being a serious hemophiliac changed their lives because they couldn't talk about it. It had to be hidden. Alexandra came in after Nicholas' father had died and the Russians didn't like that. Then there were the revolts after the coronation or marriage, which killed thousands of people. Yes, it was messed up by Sergei, Nicholas' uncle, but he was also Nicholas' brother in law. He was married to Alexandra's sister, Elisabeth. 

The strain of having four daughters, the disappointment of not only Nicholas' family but the whole country, then having the prized heir to know he may not live very long; I think it broke Nicholas and Alexandra. They loved their daughters, but they could not take the throne. They loved their son, but Alexei's condition was serious. Even Queen Victoria's son Leopold didn't have as bad a case as Alexei. 

I don't think so either. I do think they had a lot of bad fortune happening to them. Waiting so long for an heir only for him to end up with hemophiliac when it was so rare for one to make it to adulthood. It wasn't as bad as Leopold. But he still died because of it and left being a pregnant wife and child. After Alexei there really wasn't many left. I don't remember who was next because Nicholas's brother Michael was out after his marriage to the lesser rank Natasha. Sergi was dead by 1905 (which might not be so bad if he was really psycho as many books suggest), his other brother George was dead in 1899 and I think their might have been another brother that died as a baby. His uncle Paul was out or had been out due to his morganatic (sp) marriage too. Boris and Andrei both married their mistresses, and Cyril was out after he married Alexandra's ex-sister-in-law Victoria Melita who was married to Alexandra's brother Ernest. Although he took the position after the executions. But for the most part there was no one after Alexi.  Marrying so quickly after the death of his father instead of having time to settle in marriage for Alexandra to adjust at a slightly lower level then Empress so quickly. Everyone failing to prepare either one at all for their roles. I do think they bare some responsibility. They made a lot of bad decisions.  The handling of the deaths after the Coronation. The handling of the peaceful protest in 1905 that ended in a lot of deaths. His responses to this events hurt his reputation badly. His meddling with the Duma until he got the one he preferred. Allowing Rasputin such a big part of their life, Alexandra letting him help her make decisions while Nicholas was away. Alexandra isolating the family away from everyone she didn't approve of.  Which was just about everyone.        

[justoneoftwo]

12 hours ago, Chickenbutt said:

Maybe an FJ attorney can read and decipher this. It sounds like legal mumbo jumbo to me. Is there some kind of release buried in this mess somewhere? It looks like it only covers the privacy end of things to me. 

https://www.fortrock.org/privacy/

I looked really quickly.  It looks like a general release which is standard and unlikely to help much.  Also in many states you cannot release damages on behalf of your children before they are injured.  

[Carm_88]

@JordynDarby5 I believe the heir was supposed to be Grand Duke Dmitri, his father Grand Duke Paul was Nicholas' Uncle, the youngest son of Alexander II. Rumour had it that they were going to marry Olga to Dmitri. I think this was prior to Alexei's birth.  However, Dmitri was the murderer of Rasputin, so he was exiled. 

I don't think Leopold would have married, if he hadn't pushed for it. Victoria definitely wanted to keep him in a little glass case and keep him protected. He was one of her favourites. He did die young, but he lived long enough to get married and have one child, and one on the way. Alexei just seemed to have more issues then even Leopold did. 

[tabitha2]

Leopold was not important dynastically but  only to the family if you want to real. He was never going to be more than another prince with 3 healthy and fertile brothers ahead of him anyway but He led as best a life as a hemophiliac at that time could live and lived far longer than anyone expected at that.  Whereas Alexie was doomed from birth by the time and place and station where was born and the expectations on him. 

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

I'm here  if you were serious about safety and if you are truly wanting safety at all costs you would NEVAH leave the house unless you were protected like this. And until you are I will hear none of this helmet no helmet talk. 

 

 

Spoiler

 Sorry forgot to add the sarcasm font to this topic.  And sorry shouldn't have posted anything LITERRALLY just had to talk my boss out of committing suicide via phone until her father got to her to take her to the hospital, I was trying to make a joke, and fuck en hell, my mind is NOT in  the right place, but I won't delete the post because, well I said it  I'm sorry, I was just trying to drown my nerves in chocolate chip cookies and FJ and well....

[singsingsing]

2 minutes ago, allthegoodnamesrgone said:

I'm here  if you were serious about safety and if you are truly wanting safety at all costs you would NEVAH leave the house unless you were protected like this. And until you are I will hear none of this helmet no helmet talk. 

 

 

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So true. Because we can never be totally safe 100% of the time, we should obviously never take simple, reasonable, common sense safety precautions to save ourselves and our children from needless injury or death. 

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

I'm saying this is a no win topic, we'll just keep talking in circles about this because there are good arguments on both sides.

[justoneoftwo]

6 minutes ago, allthegoodnamesrgone said:

I'm here  if you were serious about safety and if you are truly wanting safety at all costs you would NEVAH leave the house unless you were protected like this. And until you are I will hear none of this helmet no helmet talk. 

 

 

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Your so right, if safe can't be 100% I should not take a simple step, with minimal negatives, to get 80% safer... I'm sure you never wear a seat belt.  

[singsingsing]

2 minutes ago, allthegoodnamesrgone said:

I'm saying this is a no win topic, we'll just keep talking in circles about this because there are good arguments on both sides.

That's not really what you said, though, is it?

[Rachel333]

1 minute ago, allthegoodnamesrgone said:

I'm saying this is a no win topic, we'll just keep talking in circles about this because there are good arguments on both sides.

What is the good argument in favor of not taking extremely simple but potentially life saving safety precautions?

I have no problem with people who simply didn't realize how dangerous horses (or whatever we're talking about) can be, or who didn't take precautions in the past. What does bother me is when people say those precautions are unimportant or make a point out of refusing to take those precautions.

[JordynDarby5]

1 hour ago, Carm_88 said:

@JordynDarby5 I believe the heir was supposed to be Grand Duke Dmitri, his father Grand Duke Paul was Nicholas' Uncle, the youngest son of Alexander II. Rumour had it that they were going to marry Olga to Dmitri. I think this was prior to Alexei's birth.  However, Dmitri was the murderer of Rasputin, so he was exiled. 

I don't think Leopold would have married, if he hadn't pushed for it. Victoria definitely wanted to keep him in a little glass case and keep him protected. He was one of her favourites. He did die young, but he lived long enough to get married and have one child, and one on the way. Alexei just seemed to have more issues then even Leopold did. 

Dimitri! That's the one I forgot. Rasputin's murderer or one of the murderers.  After his father was exiled he and his sister went to live with Sergei and Elizabeth. Thanks for the reminder.   

1 hour ago, tabitha2 said:

Leopold was not important dynastically but  only to the family if you want to real. He was never going to be more than another prince with 3 healthy and fertile brothers ahead of him anyway but He led as best a life as a hemophiliac at that time could live and lived far longer than anyone expected at that.  Whereas Alexie was doomed from birth by the time and place and station where was born and the expectations on him. 

That's true. Leopold would never have to do as much as Alexei would have as heir and then later as Tsar. 

[Boogers]

1 hour ago, singsingsing said:

So true. Because we can never be totally safe 100% of the time, we should obviously never take simple, reasonable, common sense safety precautions to save ourselves and our children from needless injury or death. 

"A ship in harbor is safe - but that is not what ships are built for."

Edit: ahhh misread your statement. Always liked this quote tho, sorry it's not entirely relevant.