Duggars By the Dozen 34: Lens Flare Photo with the Grandkids

[nastyhobbitses]

11 hours ago, Lyle Lanley said:

Alexandra was emotionally abusive towards her daughters. It's no wonder Alicky was Victoria's favourite grandchild, she was just like her grandmother. I truly believe none of those women would have been allowed to marry unless they married a man who agreed to stay close to the family.

Sounds a bit familiar...

I think Olga almost married into the Romanian royal family (which would have saved her), but it never worked out. Tatiana had an offer from the crown prince of Serbia, which, again, might have saved her. In Olga's case, the Romanians didn't like her that much, and in Tatiana's case, World War I kinda put a halt to marriage talk. But I wouldn't be surprised if Alexandra did what she could to keep her daughters dependent and close to her locus of control; though I don't think she was a cartoon villainess, just SUPER co-dependent, controlling, and in way over her head. 

I've been listening to a really great (and hilarious) podcast about the life of Rasputin, and yeah, Nicholas and Alexandra were very much in the wrong place at the wrong time. I think if he were Tsar during any other time period, he probably would have been a very meh blip on the historical radar. If he were just a "spare" rather than first in line, he would have lived a nice quiet life with his family and never caused any trouble. But he had to run the biggest country on earth during one of the messiest periods of human history, and while he wasn't the singular cause of everything going so horribly, he certainly didn't make things easier or better. 

[DillyDally]

Seeing Tyler look so happy makes me smile every time.  Let's hope it's not just for the camera. 

[BlessaYourHeart]

13 hours ago, SapphireSlytherin said:

Oh, come on. Really?

I've never worn a helmet on a horse - and still wouldn't. 

Yes really. I would NEVER let anyone on any of my horses without a helmet, no stable anywhere near me would. Even friends who also have their own horses wouldn’t. I don’t care what experience that person has riding, you always wear a helmet. You wouldn’t send someone sky diving without the proper equipment. 

Horse riding is so dangerous. Even the most timid, well behaved horse can get spooked unexpectedly which can lead to the rider being thrown off and serious injury.  

My horse, who is the sweetest and most gentle ex German show horse and 17 years old so well past his heyday, got spooked by a jump once (something that’s never happened before) hesiatated and refused to jump, throwing me over his head. Had I not been wearing a helmet, I would have likely been dead or seriously brain damaged due to the way I landed and my head hitting the ground. 

It gets on my nerves so much when people think it’s ok to not wear helmets or to let their children not wear helmets. It’s an accident waiting to happen. A horse is an animal with its own personality and temperament and is always unpredictable 

[Markie]

Tyler and another kid don’t even have their feet in the stirrups. 

I never wore a helmet while trail riding, but did wear one when barrel racing and show jumping. 

[Carm_88]

On 8/17/2018 at 5:56 PM, justoneoftwo said:

Can you give more information on this?  How was she abusive?  What evidence do we have?  How was Victoria abusive?  Or are there books or articles you could recommend?

Alexandra emotionally stunted her children as others have said. She very much didn't want them to mix outside of their immediate family, Nicholas and Alexandra and their children spent a lot of time alone. Some of it was wanting to hide Alexei's hemophilia and some of it was she was paranoid. 

As for Victoria, she blamed Edward VII for the death of Albert, the Prince Consort because Albert was ill when he went to give Edward VII a lecture about not sleeping with prostitutes. She didn't want her son Leopold to get married, some say because of his hemophillia, some say because she was just that controlling. She didn't want him to leave home or have any kind of normal life at all. As stated she clung to Beatrice, she clung to Helena (who married a much older man and lived very close to Victoria.) She wouldn't speak to either of her daughters (Alice and Victoria) because they were breastfeeding their children. I am pretty sure that she called them cows. 

She stated what was on her mind and her children had to take it. Not just because she was the Queen but because she was their mother. However, considering how abusive her mother was with Queen Victoria, it's not surprising that she didn't have a great sense of boundaries. Her mother did sleep with her until she was Queen, wouldn't let her walk down the stairs without holding someone's hand, and much like Alexandra of Russia, thought that everyone was out to kill her daughter for the throne.  

[QuiverFullofBooks]

@Carm_88 Helena’s husband Christian was much older, not much younger. He was courting her before it was clear that Victoria intended to grieve Albert forever, and a lot of people thought that he was courting Victoria. Helena was the only one of Victoria’s children who celebrated her fiftieth wedding anniversary.

[Carm_88]

20 minutes ago, QuiverFullofBooks said:

@Carm_88 Helena’s husband Christian was much older, not much younger. He was courting her before it was clear that Victoria intended to grieve Albert forever, and a lot of people thought that he was courting Victoria. Helena was the only one of Victoria’s children who celebrated her fiftieth wedding anniversary.

Yes, he was older. No, he was not courting her before Albert died, that was Alice and Louis of Hesse. They were engaged or close to being engaged. 

Victoria started looking for a husband for Helena in 1863 and because of her appearance and the fact that she was a middle child, she settled on Christian. They became engaged in 1865. Most everyone else in the family wasn't too pleased about this penniless, landless Prince becoming part of the family. 

[JordynDarby5]

22 hours ago, QuiverFullofBooks said:

To combine the royal thread drift and the riding-without-helmets thread drift... the last I heard, 92-year-old Queen Elizabeth was still riding without a helmet.

 

19 hours ago, tabitha2 said:

 

The stated reason is She dosen’t want to muss her hair and she is one of the most experienced horsewomen is the world. But  she insists her grandchildren who often ride with her do it of course. A few years ago  young Lady  Louise who is very experienced herself  fell off her horse  and badly broke her arm( she asked them to please not blame her horse and be cross at it :))If she was not wearing that helmet it could have been very tragic. 

Ah, I was hoping her reason would be similar to my great-grandfather's response every time his doctor told him he should quit smoking cigars and drinking which was to remind the doctor how old he was. I'm 80! When they'd try to convince him he'd live longer he'd ask why? He was already 80 and then 85 and then 90 and asked why the hell it mattered now if he quit smoking. He already made it long what did it mattered now. When his doctor would tell him he could live another ten or twenty years he asked if the doctor would put that in a contract. He'd sign it if the Doctor could guarantee at his age that he'd live another ten years if he stopped smoke. Which of course the doctor never did because they couldn't actually guarantee that. Made it all the way to 94 smoking cigars and drinking usually Jack Daniels. 

Oh, a Victoria, Alexandra and Alexandra discussion! I'm glad I didn't miss it. Yeah, Victoria was horrible mother. Blaming her son for her husband's death. Constantly trying to convince her daughters to remain with her because she needed help. Finding husbands that were broke so they'd be more likely to agree to marry one of her daughters and live with her for the rest of her life. Her horrible reaction to Beatrice wanting to get married. Trying to control everything and everyone. I did like how Bertie and Alexandra managed to ah accidentally have Victoria miss a couple of the births of their children. But that Alexandra ended up no better not wanting to let her children leave and marry either. In the end only one remained with her until she died and it didn't really seem like Victoria's choice to remain with her mother. 

[Chickenbutt]

From Fort Rock website https://www.fortrock.org/things-to-do/horseback-riding/

This isn’t your .25 cent Wal-Mart ride!

You will ascend and descend mountainous terrain through the Ozark National Forrest! These gentle horses are used to the trail, but will require your steady horsemanship! The average ride from start to finish is approximately 1 hour. This activity is included at no additional charge for all scheduled camps (i.e. Family Camps, Marriage Retreats, etc.)

The cost to ride our 1 hour trip is only $25/person. To schedule your ride, call us at 479.677.3136

-Riders must be 8+ years old to ride by themselves.

-Riders 7 and under can ride with adults.

-Maximum weight 275lbs.

-Helmets are not provided, campers may bring their own.

(Bolding and italics mine)

[JordynDarby5]

14 hours ago, nastyhobbitses said:

I think Olga almost married into the Romanian royal family (which would have saved her), but it never worked out. Tatiana had an offer from the crown prince of Serbia, which, again, might have saved her. In Olga's case, the Romanians didn't like her that much, and in Tatiana's case, World War I kinda put a halt to marriage talk. But I wouldn't be surprised if Alexandra did what she could to keep her daughters dependent and close to her locus of control; though I don't think she was a cartoon villainess, just SUPER co-dependent, controlling, and in way over her head. 

I've been listening to a really great (and hilarious) podcast about the life of Rasputin, and yeah, Nicholas and Alexandra were very much in the wrong place at the wrong time. I think if he were Tsar during any other time period, he probably would have been a very meh blip on the historical radar. If he were just a "spare" rather than first in line, he would have lived a nice quiet life with his family and never caused any trouble. But he had to run the biggest country on earth during one of the messiest periods of human history, and while he wasn't the singular cause of everything going so horribly, he certainly didn't make things easier or better. 

I used to have that opinion when I was a kid and watched that Disney movie Anastasia but then went onto read books about the family. For the longest time there really were a lot of books that painted Nicholas and Alexandra in a really good light. It was really hard to find anything on what really happened. Now they mostly still try to paint them in a good light as parents while finally pointed out how horrible things were in Russia at the time and how badly they ruled. Reading stuff on his reign its a lot easier to see why so many people were fed up. Its absolutely amazing how many chances Nicholas had to save everything and kept throwing it away. No he wasn't completely responsible for what happened but he's not innocent either. One thing that does amaze me is how many people thought he would make a bad Tsar but instead of finding someone else or training him they did nothing. Sure that's a good idea. What could possibly go wrong with someone with zero training.  I do think he loved his family very much I think Alexandra did but she isolated her family from the world. She never wanted anyone else in. I really don't think she would have let any of the girls marry unless she was certain they'd all still live together but even then I'm not sure. She was very controlling with her family. I think Olga and Tatiana always claimed they wanted to marry Russian soldiers which isn't surprising. They weren't really allowed to be around anyone else. I do have sympathy for hard it would be to have a son with Alexi's condition and the odds survival weren't good back then for people with hemophilia.  Her attempt to rule with Rasputin while her husband was off at the battlefield was a disaster. She really wasn't good at listening to reason. But I do find it interesting how she threw herself into nursing when WWI. For the first and possibly only time Alexandra was out there, working, helping and she probably enjoyed it.  But Nicholas and Alexandra never should have ruled.        

[QuiverFullofBooks]

3 hours ago, Carm_88 said:

Yes, he was older. No, he was not courting her before Albert died, that was Alice and Louis of Hesse. They were engaged or close to being engaged. 

Victoria started looking for a husband for Helena in 1863 and because of her appearance and the fact that she was a middle child, she settled on Christian. They became engaged in 1865. Most everyone else in the family wasn't too pleased about this penniless, landless Prince becoming part of the family. 

I know it was after Albert died - that was my point. People thought that he was courting the widowed queen instead of her teenage daughter.

[Dandruff]

15 hours ago, BlessaYourHeart said:

Horse riding is so dangerous. Even the most timid, well behaved horse can get spooked unexpectedly which can lead to the rider being thrown off and serious injury.

RIP Christopher Reeve.

[VeryNikeSeamstress]

So we're a couple of days away from it being one month with no (known) Duggar pregnancies. How much longer will it stay like this?

[Ivycoveredtower]

Just now, VeryNikeSeamstress said:

So we're a couple of days away from it being one month with no (known) Duggar pregnancies. How much longer will it stay like this?

well Jessa keeps talking about baby fever so I figure she's just waiting to get pregnant with number 3.

Sam is just over a year old and if Jill follows the same as with Izzy I doubt we'll see a pregnancy from her any time soon. 

I would hope Joy wouldn't be pregnant yet after her C-section.

I figure Anna will deliver number 6 in Summer/Fall 2019 if she keeps her pattern. 

Garrett is only almost 3 months old. I could see Kendra getting pregnant quickly with number 2 

I figure Lauren and Si have been married almost 2 months so they could be pregnant already and just waiting to announce. 

and of course Jinger and Jeremy just had felicity so I am hoping at least two years between kids for them. 

 

my prediction for announcments goes. 

Lauren  some time in the coming months 

Jessa  by Christmas 

Kendra right after Jessa 

Jill Maybe  January or febuary

 then I figure Joy, Abbie and Anna will all announce around the same time between March-May

[eveandadam]

Just a guess but I think the next announcement will be either Jed or Jer courting or a mega pregnancy announcement with 5 out of the 8 couples expecting, all except for Jinger and Kendra (and Abbie, obviously). Jessa probably with twins (my money is always on her for twins (well, her or Joy)).

 

 

 

 

[Mama Mia]

On 8/17/2018 at 12:37 PM, justoneoftwo said:

Yes really.  riding horses is dangerous, inherently.  You should have a helmet for it, no question.  Further I'm shocked the camp's insurance would allow this.  They may not be insured (crazy) or they may be violating their agreement (maybe crazy, maybe just stupid) but this is weird.  

I don’t ride, but I’ve NEVER seen a photo of kids on horses wearing helmets - ever. And I live in extremely rule governed California. Maybe if they are a pre-schooler, or jumping or racing them? But just riding slowly along a trail? That seems really odd. And all those boys are at least  10? 12? 

[justoneoftwo]

10 minutes ago, Mama Mia said:

I don’t ride, but I’ve NEVER seen a photo of kids on horses wearing helmets - ever. And I live in extremely rule governed California. Maybe if they are a pre-schooler, or jumping or racing them? But just riding slowly along a trail? That seems really odd. And all those boys are at least  10? 12? 

I live in extremely rule adverse Utah, and I have never seen a photo of kids or adults riding a horse they didn't own without them.  And never a kid riding without them at all if the photo was taken post 2000.  When I go I am not allowed to get on without one.  I don't understand why any camp would want to allow the liability of letting people ride without them.  Further they must be self insured, as no insurance company would take that risk.  Its just such an unnecessary risk, why would you do that?  What benefit is there that could be worth that risk?  (Yep, my photos would look cooler if I wasn't wearing one, but thats soooo not worth it).  

Further under some city laws in CA children under 18 riding in public areas must wear one.  There are several other states with similar requirements, some including on non public land.  

Mostly the law is behind on this, but that doesn't make it safe.  

[Mama Mia]

6 minutes ago, justoneoftwo said:

I live in extremely rule adverse Utah, and I have never seen a photo of kids or adults riding a horse they didn't own without them.  And never a kid riding without them at all if the photo was taken post 2000.  When I go I am not allowed to get on without one.  I don't understand why any camp would want to allow the liability of letting people ride without them.  Further they must be self insured, as no insurance company would take that risk.  Its just such an unnecessary risk, why would you do that?  What benefit is there that could be worth that risk?  (Yep, my photos would look cooler if I wasn't wearing one, but thats soooo not worth it).  

Ok. You’d know better than me. Like I said, I don’t ride and my experience is limited to what pops up on my Facebook feed. I was just surprised that it’s a thing, in that setting, with that age group. 

[Cheetah]

A friend's daughter died after falling off a horse at age 4.  We weren't friends back then and I don't know the details like whether a helmet was involved or not but can't imagine taking the risk of not wearing one.  (Not that I ride horses more than once every 20 years or so).

I didn't wear helmets when skiing when I was younger as it wasn't the done thing until more recently but I've gotten converted there, too.  

[Iamtheway]

The ”I never did that and I was fine” is the stupidest argument ever. The people that were not fine obviously aren’t around to tell us about it. 

Once when my sister was little she lost control of her bike on the way to school and drove head first in to a stone wall at high speed. Her helmet cracked in two. If that had been me and my idiotic ”I’m too cool to wear a helmet” attitude I would have died or been very badly hurt. 

Now I always wear a helmet while biking or skiing. Because I’m smarter now then when I was 14. And I have lots of things to protect up there. 

[Snarkasarus Rex]

21 minutes ago, Iamtheway said:

The ”I never did that and I was fine” is the stupidest argument ever. The people that were not fine obviously aren’t around to tell us about it. 

I was one of the ‘too cool for helmets’ people...until I fell and sustained a TBI while skiing.  Now all 4 Rexes have ski helmets.  We always wear helmets riding bikes as well.

[Bad Wolf]

I didn't have a seat belt in the car when I was a kid and I'm ok. Now I can't even back the car out of the garage without fastening my seat belt. Safety features improve all the time, and I will take advantage of them all. Even back in the dark ages before dinosaurs, we wore hard hats for horse riding. 

[Georgiana]

The story of Nicholas and Alexandra is one that fascinates me.  I encourage ANYONE with interest on the topic to read the biography on them by Robert K. Massie.  Not only is he a prominent and recognized historian with regards to Imperial Russia...his son also has hemophilia.  His biography of Nicholas and Alexandra is therefore unique in that he is able to provide an inside perspective on the psychological stresses of being a parent of a child with hemophilia. 

Because that really did change both Nicholas and Alexandra dramatically.  Alexandra ranks as one of my most hated historical figures (she REALLY gets under my skin for some reason), but it's rather undeniable that she was suffering from incredible mental and emotional stress for which she had no method of coping.  Her mental distress (I'm resisting calling it a mental illness, but she probably would have been diagnosed today) eventually manifested in physical symptoms and invalidity, and her reliance on Rasputin was the last-ditch response of a truly desperate mother trying to very literally save the life of her son.

Neither Nicholas or Alexandra were bad people.  They were insufficient people.  They made many poor choices and did many bad things, but there is almost no evidence that they did so maliciously or even selfishly in most cases.  They both wrote prolifically enough that we have their reasoning for most of their terrible decisions, and if you strip away hindsight, they often made sense on some level, though often a level lower than they should have been thinking.  They simply had placed on their shoulders almost inhuman burdens: the fate of a clearly dying autocracy, the fate of their terminally ill son, the fate of one of the largest nations in the world.  And while exceptional people might have risen to the occasion, neither one of them were exceptional.  They were, like most people, rather average.  And average was never going to be enough.

It's interesting to note that Nicholas II and George V of the UK were close.  Not only did they look exceptionally alike (they were regularly mistaken for the other, even at family gatherings), they also were VERY similar in personality.  George V is largely considered a very good king, if not a great one.  Had Nicky been given the role of George V in a constitutional monarchy where his role would have been largely as a figurehead, we would almost certainly remember him quite differently.  Like George V, Nicky was a great family man who cultivated genuine domestic harmony.  He cared deeply and personally for his subjects.  He would sacrifice almost anything for his country, including his own life.  Yet sadly the one thing he couldn't sacrifice was what doomed him: he refused to marry for duty as opposed to love, something many royals struggled with in the modern era.  His marriage was one of the few times Nicholas did something for purely selfish reasons.

And ultimately he paid for his marriage in his own blood. 

[tabitha2]

I do wish the two eldest girls had married out of the country. Probably Given another year before all hell broke loose GD Olga and Possibly Tatiana would have been sequestered in some German Principality or Baltic Kingdom and relatively safe

 

Or you know... they could just have sent the all girls to safety and comfort with her family in Britain if they had simply not stuck their heads in sand for so long though  Alexie was simply doomed  By his position and his health would not have withstood such a long trip. As Parents The Czar and Czarina as parents would have been  tormented about how easy it would have saved most of their children 

[Rachel333]

Like I said, even just trail riding where the horses are just walking is dangerous enough to need a helmet. Horses are huge animals with minds of their own--you are never in complete control of them. At any time something can spook a horse and you could be thrown off. I think trail riding is probably a lot more dangerous than being thrown off in a ring because on the trail you have a high risk of hitting your head on a rock or tree.