Britain and Brexit business

[fraurosena]

Will London take their cue from Hong Kong, or is this a last gasp of protest?

 

[fraurosena]

More on the protests.

 

[nelliebelle1197]

On 8/18/2019 at 5:33 AM, fraurosena said:

UK expects a hard border, food price hikes, and protests in no-deal Brexit - report

Here's a link to the original Sunday Times article (partial text only; complete text for subscribers)

Operation Chaos: Whitehall’s secret no‑deal Brexit preparations leaked

 

My BIL is a sheep farmer in Wales. He is expecting to lose 80% of his market.

20 hours ago, unsafetydancer said:

@fraurosena to be honest, I would not be surprised if she secretly approves of some or even all of this. She's an incredibly wealthy person and her family were implicated in evading taxes (ironically issued by a body carrying her name and insignia). Brexit has always been largely about avoiding tax and most high profile supporters are people who were mentioned in things like the Panama Papers. Her family stands to make a bit of money out of this. 

More reason why I think we should have an official constitution instead of a constitutional monarchy. If people really think that Brexit is about regaining control from unelected people then they might feel a bit silly now. Or probably not since a lot of them are frothing at the mouth monarchists.

I would also argue that this shows she is NOT apolitical as she has now undermined an elected parliament in favour of a dubiously legitimate prime minister who retains control with a majority of one solitary MP.

And yes, @LittleOwl , the Labour Party have no bloody direction or priorities just now. Jeremy Corbyn was earlier talking about regulating football clubs so that supporters have more say about how their team is run. Cannae make it up!

Is Corbyn really as daft as he appears?

[unsafetydancer]

7 hours ago, nelliebelle1197 said:

Is Corbyn really as daft as he appears?

I think it's not so much being daft, just that he honestly never expected to be the leader of his party or have to deal with this. He's apparently a pretty good constituency MP. I think he just lacks any clue what he is supposed to be doing so is reverting to his playbook but failing to actually fucking do anything.

[Ozlsn]

1 hour ago, unsafetydancer said:

I think it's not so much being daft, just that he honestly never expected to be the leader of his party or have to deal with this. He's apparently a pretty good constituency MP. I think he just lacks any clue what he is supposed to be doing so is reverting to his playbook but failing to actually fucking do anything.

They need to find someone who wants to be leader, who can bring factions together and utilse the strengths of people like Corbyn.  Who can delegate and trust the people they have delegated to to do the jobs without needing to micromanage. And who has the guts and self-belief to be willing to clean up an enormous mess, because that's what they'll inherit.

[unsafetydancer]

The suburb of Dundee my mother works in is a wealthy, traditionally Tory voting area. Several folks have put up big signs decrying the current state of affairs, some of them even have swear words. One is over 7 feet high. When the good folks of Broughty Ferry go to war, you know shit has become thoroughly fucked.

[fraurosena]

It seems the Brits are keeping up the protests. Will it have effect, do you think?

 

[unsafetydancer]

There have also been protests here in Glasgow. Jeremy Corbyn showed up, though what he expects to do at this point I don't know.

Disturbingly there have also been sectarian riots not too far from my house. The idea of having a hard border in Ireland has made some people think their godsawful views are acceptable again and this has made them violent.

[EmainMacha]

Meanwhile in Northern Ireland- Brexit is Biblical. 

'The spirit which is behind the EU' will be the AntiChrist, in case you hadn't guessed.

[Ozlsn]

4 hours ago, EmainMacha said:

The spirit which is behind the EU' will be the AntiChrist, in case you hadn't guessed.

Not Boris? Surely Boris could be the Anti-Christ's handmaiden?

[EmainMacha]

18 minutes ago, Ozlsn said:

Not Boris? Surely Boris could be the Anti-Christ's handmaiden?

Well now the Pope is the AntiChrist and the EU is his evil force. So Boris is presumably on the side of the angels. Isn't that disturbing?

Mentally nauseous at the thought of Boris dressed as a handmaiden of the AntiChrist. I imagine there'd be leather involved.

[Ozlsn]

2 hours ago, EmainMacha said:

Well now the Pope is the AntiChrist and the EU is his evil force. So Boris is presumably on the side of the angels. Isn't that disturbing?

Mentally nauseous at the thought of Boris dressed as a handmaiden of the AntiChrist. I imagine there'd be leather involved.

Studded leather, undoubtedly. Possibly Boris is the Antichrist's pimple? (I am going to have to look up who all the characters in Revelation are again. Too long since I've read it.)

 

[fraurosena]

 

[unsafetydancer]

The thing that annoys me is that people here were warning about how damaging destabilising the UK/EU would be and how it would open us up further to Russian interference before the damned referendum. There's also some evidence now coming to light that Russian bots targeted Facebook and Twitter pages that leave voters were using. The whole thing is fucked.

[LittleOwl]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49570682

 

[fraurosena]

1 hour ago, LittleOwl said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49570682

 

Oopsie.

This is the article @LittleOwl linked to above:

Brexit: Tory MP defects ahead of crucial no-deal vote

Quote

Conservative MP Phillip Lee has defected to the Liberal Democrats ahead of a showdown between Boris Johnson and Tory rebels over Brexit.

Dr Lee, the MP for Bracknell, took his seat on the opposition benches as the PM addressed the Commons.

His defection means Boris Johnson no longer has a working majority in the House of Commons.

He said the government was "pursuing a damaging Brexit in unprincipled ways... putting lives and livelihoods at risk".

Mr Johnson has vowed to leave the EU on 31 October with or without a deal, but a number of MPs against no deal have come together across party political lines to try to stop it happening.

They have submitted a motion for an emergency debate to Commons Speaker John Bercow, and if successful, they will bring forward a bill that would force the prime minister to ask for Brexit to be delayed until 31 January, unless MPs approve a new deal, or vote in favour of a no-deal exit, by 19 October.

'Surrender bill'

Speaking in the Commons, Mr Johnson told MPs he wanted a negotiated exit from the EU and insisted there was "real momentum" behind the talks with Brussels.

He said he would travel to Dublin on Monday for discussions with Irish Prime Minister Leo Varadkar, focused on proposed alternative arrangements to the Irish border backstop - a key sticking point in the negotiations.

Asked to provide evidence of progress by several Tory MPs, he said he would not negotiate in public but reassured them he would give details of the UK's proposals well before the end of September to meet a deadline set by German Chancellor Angela Merkel.

But he said the moves by MPs, including Conservatives, to pass legislation effectively blocking a no-deal exit on 31 October would "destroy any chance of negotiating a new deal".

If the rebels succeeded in their aims, Mr Johnson said it would force him to go to Brussels to "beg for another pointless delay" to Brexit and he would "never" do that.

"It is Jeremy Corbyn's surrender bill. It means running up the white flag," he added.

No 10 has said the prime minister will push for an election on 14 October if the MPs succeed in blocking no deal.

But asked if he might simply ignore them and press ahead with a no-deal Brexit regardless, he said: "We will of course uphold the constitution and obey the law."

Before Dr Lee's defection, Mr Johnson only had a working majority of one in the Commons.

In a letter to the prime minister, Dr Lee said Brexit divisions had "sadly transformed this once great party into something more akin to a narrow faction in which one's Conservatism is measured by how recklessly one wants to leave the European Union".

"Perhaps more disappointingly, it has become infected by the twin diseases of English nationalism and populism."

He said the Lib Dems - who back another referendum on Brexit and want the UK to remain in the EU - were best placed to "heal the divisions" and "overcome the challenges we face as a society."

Welcoming her latest recruit, Lib Dem leader Jo Swinson said they would work together to prevent a "disastrous Brexit" which would do untold damage to the NHS and other public services.

Dr Lee's decision to cross the floor - following that of ex-Tory MP Sarah Wollaston last month - was greeted with cheers on the opposition benches.

Amid angry exchanges during the PM's statement on last month's G7 summit, Jeremy Corbyn urged the PM to "reflect on his choice of language" to describe the rebels' bill.

The Labour leader said the UK was "not at war with Europe" and it was a no-deal exit which would see the UK "surrender" jobs, employment standards and social protections.

"His is a government with no mandate, no morals and, as of today, no majority," he added.

The SNP's leader in Parliament, Ian Blackford, said Dr Lee's defection capped what he said was the "shortest-lived honeymoon period ever" for a new prime minister.

He said his party was ready for a general election at any time.

Last-ditch efforts to get the Tory rebels on side have been taking place, but BBC political editor Laura Kuenssberg said the meeting between the prime minister and the group earlier went "less than swimmingly" and was "less than cordial".

There are thought to be about 15 confirmed rebels.

The government had hoped the threat of an election - and of deselection and expulsion from the party - would be enough to bring them into line.

But veteran Tory Ken Clarke, one of those set to rebel later, said the PM's strategy was to "set conditions which make no deal inevitable, to make sure as much blame as possible is attached to the EU, and as quickly as he can fight a flag-waving election before the consequences of a no deal become too obvious to the public".

You can see a video of Phillip Lee demonstratively moving over to the Lib Dems in this link.

[LittleOwl]

Thanks, I was sneakily watching live whilst I was at work! 

[AmazonGrace]

[unsafetydancer]

If you had told me that the Tories would lose their (slim) majority because of defections to the Lib Dems back in 2013 I would have told you to go sober up. Hopefully this will mean that SOMETHING constructive will happen. Whether this is an extension and general election or just scrapping this entirely stupid project altogether ANYTHING is better than a no deal exit and all that entails.

@AmazonGrace the one or two remaining Blitz survivors thoroughly condemn Brexit. They lived through war in Europe and can remember food shortages and genuine hardship. The generation that voted for Brexit are their children who were either too young to understand what was happening or were born after the worst of food rationing was over.

I had one conversation with my grandmother about rationing (she was born in 1936 and could remember the war and the aftermath) and she talked about seeing her first banana at my age. Up until then the only fresh fruit in her diet was apples and the occasional soft fruit that she was given as a treat. If you look at photos of her family, the generation before hers was relatively tall and yet both she and her brother were small. Rationing literally stunted her growth and lead to osteoporosis in her old age. I can't believe there are people stupid enough to think malnourished children are a price worth paying for whatever they think they will get out of this.

[47of74]

Is Boorish tweeting up a storm like our own dear leader would be doing at this stage in the game?

[fraurosena]

1 minute ago, 47of74 said:

Is Boorish tweeting up a storm like our own dear leader would be doing at this stage in the game?

Not really. There are three themes he is regurgitating by rotation:

1. We will leave the EU on the 31st of October

2. Stupid Jeremy Corbin said xyz

3. My speech

 

[Ozlsn]

"No deal" opponents defeat government bill.

Wow this is getting (more) interesting.

Spoiler

Tory rebels and opposition MPs have defeated the government in the first stage of their attempt to pass a law designed to prevent a no-deal Brexit.

The Commons voted 328 to 301 to take control of the agenda, meaning they can bring forward a bill seeking to delay the UK's exit date.

In response, Boris Johnson said he would bring forward a motion for an early general election.

Jeremy Corbyn said the bill should be passed before an election was held.

In total, 21 Tory MPs, including a number of ex-cabinet ministers, joined opposition parties to defeat the government.

The government warned in advance that it would remove the whip - effectively expel - any MPs who chose to vote against it.

The prime minister said the MPs' bill would "hand control" of Brexit negotiations to the EU and bring "more dither, more delay, more confusion".

He told MPs he had no choice but to press ahead with efforts to call an October election, adding: "The people of this country will have to choose."

The result means the MPs will be able to take control of Commons business on Wednesday.

That will give them the chance to introduce a cross-party bill which would force the prime minister to ask for Brexit to be delayed until 31 January, unless MPs approve a new deal, or vote in favour of a no-deal exit, by 19 October.

The BBC understands the government intends to hold an election on 15 October, two days before a crucial EU summit in Brussels.

To call an election under the Fixed-term Parliaments Act, Mr Johnson would need support from Labour as he requires the backing of two-thirds of the UK's 650 MPs.

But Mr Corbyn said the legislation backed by opposition MPs and Tory rebels should pass before any election was held, to "take no deal off the table".

The BBC's chief political correspondent, Vicki Young, said the government was framing the situation as the Labour leader trying to block Brexit, and that would be its argument going into a general election.

Also seriously Boris "this is trying to ruin any chance the government might have had of making a deal with the EU"?? You can hear the chamber burst out laughing.

[mango_fandango]

One of the Tory rebels is my MP. As he is a Tory I have never voted for him, but he has been pro-Remain so there’s that... 

They're being expelled from the party (the rebels). Including Ken Clarke, who’s been an MP since 1970. That’s 49 years... all gone. Another of them is Nicholas Soames, who is Winston Churchill’s grandson (son of Churchill’s youngest daughter Mary). 

What a time to be alive.

Edited September 3, 2019 by mango_fandango
clarifying

[Ozlsn]

4 minutes ago, mango_fandango said:

One of the Tory rebels is my MP. As he is a Tory I have never voted for him, but he has been pro-Remain so there’s that... 

They're being expelled from the party (the rebels). Including Ken Clarke, who’s been an MP since 1970. That’s 49 years... all gone. Another of them is Nicholas Soames, who is Winston Churchill’s grandson (son of Churchill’s youngest daughter Mary). 

What a time to be alive.

This is incredible. If Boris et al manage to destroy the Conservative party they'll probably be able to power the UK just from the energy generated by Margaret Thatcher spinning in her grave.

[mango_fandango]

David Gauke has posted this on Twitter:

Rees-Mogg is such a gigantic knob.