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Just now, fraurosena said:

She hasn't been living in England for more than 18 months. So she can stay for the next five years only because she has a job?

It's down to the hostile environment again. It was one of Theresa May's policies when she was the Home Secretary. The Tories whipped people up into a rage over the idea of immigrants "coming here and living on benefits" so they keep setting the earnings threshold higher and higher. They also now discriminate against people who are unemployed, on zero hours contracts or stay at home parents. 

It's fucking asinine because the UK government always had the same power other EU countries have to ask people who don't find a job within a certain time frame to leave. It would have required a more organised border and they have been underfunding the border check areas for years. They didn't bother employing people to do entry checks, it was much easier to just wave people through and then use them as a convenient scapegoat in the press.

In my experience there are very few people, either immigrant or native, who are content to just live on benefits. There are far more people who would like come off benefits but are on low pay, are disabled, have young children or are caring for an elderly relative. Most people receiving benefits are now the working poor because wages have not grown at all when compared to inflation throughout all of my adult life.

As far as the UK government in Westminster are concerned, unless you are automatically earning £33,000 then you are a "drain on society". This is twice what I earn, more than anyone in my family earns. It's ridiculous because this policy has caused us to lose university graduates who might have made the UK their home. A guy I was at uni with was denied leave to remain despite qualifying as a social worker, he returned to his native Canada despite wanting to stay.

I hope your niece continues to be allowed to stay, there have already been so many families and relationships split up by all of this.

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24 minutes ago, unsafetydancer said:

It's down to the hostile environment again. It was one of Theresa May's policies when she was the Home Secretary. The Tories whipped people up into a rage over the idea of immigrants "coming here and living on benefits" so they keep setting the earnings threshold higher and higher. They also now discriminate against people who are unemployed, on zero hours contracts or stay at home parents. 

It's fucking asinine because the UK government always had the same power other EU countries have to ask people who don't find a job within a certain time frame to leave. It would have required a more organised border and they have been underfunding the border check areas for years. They didn't bother employing people to do entry checks, it was much easier to just wave people through and then use them as a convenient scapegoat in the press.

In my experience there are very few people, either immigrant or native, who are content to just live on benefits. There are far more people who would like come off benefits but are on low pay, are disabled, have young children or are caring for an elderly relative. Most people receiving benefits are now the working poor because wages have not grown at all when compared to inflation throughout all of my adult life.

As far as the UK government in Westminster are concerned, unless you are automatically earning £33,000 then you are a "drain on society". This is twice what I earn, more than anyone in my family earns. It's ridiculous because this policy has caused us to lose university graduates who might have made the UK their home. A guy I was at uni with was denied leave to remain despite qualifying as a social worker, he returned to his native Canada despite wanting to stay.

I hope your niece continues to be allowed to stay, there have already been so many families and relationships split up by all of this.

You know what makes me angry? That taking care of your own children, instead of dumping them in daycare, is not seen as a job. Being a parent is actually one hell of a job. A wonderful, exasperating, frustrating, exhilarating, and rewarding job, that never ends. Why isn't it seen as worthy if you choose to do it yourself? Because it doesn't generate income? That is just so stupid. As a parent you are getting your children ready to enter society, ensuring that they become responsible adults, and that in and of itself is the most important contribution to society a parent can have. So why isn't it appreciated? Meh, you're 'only' a mom, so get out of the country? Ugh.

As for that random amount you should be earning or else you're a drain on society? That's just bollocks. Try getting society to work without those lesser income jobs, why don't you? Society would fall apart in no time. No policemen, no nurses, firemen, bakers, grocers, no service station or shop or daycare(!) employees to name but a few. 

It is precisely this veneration of capital that has gotten society all over the word in the trouble it's in right now. 

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@fraurosena agree with you 100%!

Caring for anyone should be valued far more than it is. Doesn't matter if it's your kids or your ageing parents, society would collapse if people refused to make time for the weakest and most helpless people in their families. I cared for an elderly grandparent for a couple of months until it became impossible due to her advanced dementia, it's not easy. 

I would love to see family leave extended at both ends. Parents should be given two years each, either consecutively or concurrently to care for and spend time with young children. Fathers should be encouraged to take on some childcare, it will make for a better relationship with their kid. I can remember crying when my dad had to leave for work because I knew I would be asleep by the time he got home and I wouldn't see him.

People should be given leave to care for elderly or sick relatives. If someone is dying then they should be given time to spend with that person while they are still here, and time for after the death. My mother was lucky to be given 28 days after my father died suddenly and this was because her employers are particularly compassionate so they gave her the maximum.

It's why I am in favour of a Universal Basic Income. People deserve food, a roof over their head and the ability to spend time in their community, regardless of what job they have or if they are a parent or carer. 

I often find that the lowest paid people are doing the most important job. I remember back in university an utter wanker that used to hang out with us saying that people who are "just" cleaners can't expect to be paid well. I asked him what he thought would happen if the university cleaning staff got up and left. He didn't have an answer.

The thing about the £33,000 as a "random" number is that it has been deliberately set high. You are right that it is more than most police, teachers, nurses, cleaners, care workers, firefighters or healthcare assistants will make. It's actually more than most people of my generation will ever hope to make, due to wage stagnation. It's all so bloody stupid!

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So this is maybe a step forward. If this goes ahead then hopefully Labour and the Lib Dems will extract their fingers from their nether regions and actually do something constructive.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-deal-vote-second-referendum-amendments-bill-boris-johnson-commons-a9159966.html?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook&fbclid=IwAR3y6JAzYwAH1FdpgSWgTVonOnFJWRymwR1C0ElbQ5hiHIEtxSj8KZ-vgmk#Echobox=1571316230

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So the process continues, now to see if Boris will break the law again or request a delay from the EU (again).  The vote to delay was closer than I thought it might be  (322 to 306) - I'm wondering how many MPs just want this finished, no matter how awful it turns out to be, and are voting for something, anything to end the torture and move forward.

So now what? 

 

 

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Whoah.

There isn't an unrolled version available yet, but here's the first tweet in this very interesting thread. Well worth the read.

 

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On 10/14/2019 at 9:18 PM, unsafetydancer said:

Angry again!

Just read a Facebook status posted by a friend who has tried to use the Home Office app to apply to stay here. She has lived here since she was a teen, attended a Scottish university and has two Scottish born children. Apparently none of this counts, as she is a stay at home parent with young kids and therefore does not pay tax. She sure as hell shows up on the council tax register, and the HMRC child tax credit register. They are claiming there is no "proof" she has been here all this time.

What about her university transcripts, her high school attendance records, her bank account statements. They will all show activity here in Scotland. She might be sent away because of this, because she cannot afford childcare if she goes to work so has stayed home until the youngest child is in school. She might be sent away from her family. 

Fuck this squarely in the arse! If they come for my friends I am chaining myself across their door, they can do what they want to me!

I'm quoting this post again because I think that Guy Verhofstadt might be talking about people like her in this speech:

 

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It strikes me how polite and civilised this video clip is compared to our baying, hollering mob of a parliament in Westminster. Witness this man being given time to talk without booing and jeering from all sides and constant barks of Ordah! from some sausage who apparently does not have the authority to ban rude, disrespectful muppets from the chamber. He even takes time to wish his colleagues well at the end, I cannot imagine most of the MPs in Westminster taking time to be so polite.

This is how a civilised government should be run. There's actually a "rule" in Westminster that you shouldn't applaud an MP's speech, but you can shout over them and make sure that they are not heard. It's like watching a bunch of children sometimes.

It's interesting how he has mentioned Windrush here. I think what we are seeing with deportations and the awful bureaucracy that perfectly ordinary people are being forced to endure goes way beyond Brexit. It's almost like years and years of blaming the phantom bogeyman of "immigrant" has led to a complete disrespect of certain people based solely on their country of origin, no? It makes me so angry that some of the same people on my Facebook feed complaining about unfairness targeted towards themselves will completely ignore even greater unfairnesses when they are done to certain "others". It's also soul destroying to see more and more reports of hate crimes in the news.

I honestly worry about what will happen to people I care about. Several people I know have already been sent away, sometimes from a place they have lived in since they were children. It's horrible that people are not defending their neighbours and friends but to be honest I have no idea where to start. How do you defend people you care about against an entire country that is determined to destroy their lives while also destroying itself?

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3 hours ago, unsafetydancer said:

I honestly worry about what will happen to people I care about. Several people I know have already been sent away, sometimes from a place they have lived in since they were children. It's horrible that people are not defending their neighbours and friends but to be honest I have no idea where to start. How do you defend people you care about against an entire country that is determined to destroy their lives while also destroying itself?

I grew up not understanding how Germany got to where it did in the 1930s-40s. I understand it so much better now. I don't have answers either - about all I can say is keep voting and pushing back against it, and find as many likeminded people as possible to make your voices heard.

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I’d like to work in the civil service (interesting ambition at this point in time!) and have signed up for job alerts. This morning I got one to be the “Diary Secretary to the Chancellor of the Duchy Lancaster”. In plain English, this means managing Michael Gove’s diary. 

1) my organisation skills aren’t very good

2) even if my organisation skills were on point... it’s working for Michael Gove. Fuck that shit. 

D2997165-7449-4302-81BA-BE48FB5F69BC.thumb.jpeg.9d903bdf485c898aa46cfa4f20806293.jpeg
 

(The blackout is covering my name)

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https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/oct/28/boris-johnson-third-attempt-general-election-fails?CMP=fb_gu&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook&fbclid=IwAR2WliB3lcZu64Ml3oZ3DvUr0KJRwNSWTB98LKWavIXMb4L0-gpamWZxe_k#Echobox=1572289336

I am conflicted when watching this.

One one hand I would love to watch the Tories lose their seats, especially here in Scotland where it's actually now predicted that they will lose all of them. Some accusations have been made that Boris is willing to throw the Scottish Tories under the bus if it means he has a (small) chance of winning a majority in a general election.

On the other hand I feel an odd sense of satisfaction in watching him squirm. Part of me wonders if he has now realised exactly what kind of shit fest he signed himself up for and is regretting his decision to stand for the leadership role. I think the fact that we are onto PM number three as a result of Brexit shows that it's a job that no one can do nearly as easily as they claimed they would and that they would rather relinquish the powerful position they schemed so hard for than be the one who is sitting in the chair when it all goes tits up.

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1 hour ago, unsafetydancer said:

On the other hand I feel an odd sense of satisfaction in watching him squirm. Part of me wonders if he has now realised exactly what kind of shit fest he signed himself up for

Yeah maybe it wasn't just that "the chick can't drive". These boofheads who think they can get the EU to do their bidding and who try and lead by fiat and deception amaze me. 

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Speaker of the House John Bercow is stepping down today after ten years. He may have been pretty divisive, but dealing with the current bunch of MPs isn’t the easiest job.

According to Hansard, which is the written record of debates that take place, he’s said the word “order” (ok, that’d be ORRRR-DERRRRR) almost 14,000 times.

Until the new Speaker is elected on the 4th November, debates will be chaired by Ken Clarke, who is famously pro-EU; he’s doing it because he is Father of the House (longest continually-serving MP). 
 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-50237401

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A large number of people have today marked themselves as "Safe from Brexit" on Facebook. This has amused me.

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I confess to having a laughing fit when I heard the Tories' election slogan.

"Britain deserves better"

 :pb_lol:

The Tories are already being ruthlessly mocked for their general election slogan

Quote

One day into the general election contest, and the Conservative Party is already being mercilessly mocked for one of its general election slogans.

Posting on Twitter yesterday evening, Boris Johnson introduced the nation to his ingenious election message: “Britain deserves better”.

Understandably, though, people have been pretty quick to point out that Johnson’s party has been in power for the past *nine* years. The problems faced by Britain have literally been created by the Conservative Party.

image.thumb.png.de4af690826dcfd6f1899e4cbf354990.png 

image.thumb.png.e947e77f530f0e0c280d3db8928cade0.png

In 2017, Theresa May tried everything possible to sabotage her own election campaign. This involved U-turning on several of her major campaign promises, despite promising “strong and stable leadership”.

It seems, at this rate, Boris Johnson is heading for a similar sort of disaster.

 

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There have been a few times on FJ where I’ve really wanted an eyeroll reaction and that post about “Britain Deserves Better” is one of them...

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It's definitely a slogan that was come up with by someone with no sense of self or even sense of irony.

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Marina Hyde appears to have lost patience with the whole saga.

I have to say though, can we hold Katie Hopkins to this and maybe raise money for a relevant charity?

On the other hand, Devon-based extremist Katie Hopkins has previously tweeted that we will leave the EU on 31 October, or “I will drink a pot of tea naked in the Apprentice losers cafe with Farage’s face on each nipple.”

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The House of Commons has a new Speaker, Sir Lindsay Hoyle, who was previously a deputy Speaker and belonged to the Labour Party, although he officially has no allegiance as Speaker. Traditionally, the new Speaker is dragged to the chair, my mother explained why but I’m not sure how to phrase it :pb_lol: 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-politics-50293505

He has six pets, all named after politicians; apparently Boris the parrot can already squawk “order, order” :pb_lol::pb_lol: 

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On 11/6/2019 at 2:19 AM, mango_fandango said:

He has six pets, all named after politicians; apparently Boris the parrot can already squawk “order, order” :pb_lol::pb_lol: 

These animals would probably make a more effective government than the one we currently have.

Now that they have called a general election it's turned into true loony territory. More disturbingly, I have already seen a large number of paid Facebook ad posts from "independent" institutions that I have a) never heard of, and b) on closer inspection are basically a megaphone for Tories/Ukip?Brexit Party Ltd.

Nigel Farage (who is a monumental walloper of the first order) has also gallantly agreed to not field Brexit Party candidates in seats where the Tories are being contested by someone else who might win. It has all but been confirmed he has been offered a place on the New Year Honours list. This is the absolute height of corruption but where are the BBC, Channel 4 News, Sky et al? 

The Tories are also threatening to report the SNP for destroying handwritten office memos in the Scottish Government. This is not "disposing of evidence", these notes have either been typed up and saved onto a server or have been destroyed because of current data protection rules. In my office we are forbidden from keeping certain kinds of data in notebooks or on pieces of paper and we are asked to dispose of any paper notes once there is no longer a purpose in keeping them. It's the law.

We also have Boris refusing to release information relating to Russia and Russian interference. The Labour Party have now been hacked. Twice.

All of this is incredibly disturbing. Also the date set for the election: students will be travelling home for Christmas and will potentially be unable to vote. This also applies to a lot of people who live and work far away from their families or who are offered seasonal work. All of these people are more likely to vote for not the Tories. I'm seeing a pattern here.

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On 11/13/2019 at 7:13 AM, unsafetydancer said:

All of this is incredibly disturbing. Also the date set for the election: students will be travelling home for Christmas and will potentially be unable to vote. This also applies to a lot of people who live and work far away from their families or who are offered seasonal work. All of these people are more likely to vote for not the Tories. I'm seeing a pattern here.

This is one reason I like having complusory voting (well technically compulsory turn up and get your name ticked off). If people have to vote you have to make it as easy as possible for them to do so. It makes shenanigans like this a lot harder (although not impossible, and there have certainly been stunts pulled here recently with the same aim).

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Just saw an ad on here encouraging me to bet on the general election. Dear god and little fishes, is there no low that people will not stoop to in order to make light of this situation or to make some quick cash?

If anything would sum up politics in my country, it would be this.

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On 11/19/2019 at 10:14 PM, unsafetydancer said:

Just saw an ad on here encouraging me to bet on the general election. Dear god and little fishes, is there no low that people will not stoop to in order to make light of this situation or to make some quick cash?

If anything would sum up politics in my country, it would be this.

Yes, betting on the election just seems wrong this time round. I've never liked any the PM's that much in my life time but I have had some respect for most of them. Boris is not someone I can respect he is using what happened on Friday to score points against Labour, when he cut police officers and emergency service workers as mayor of London and the Conservative's have been in power 10 years and reduced the terrorism legislation that Labour had made. 

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On 11/20/2019 at 9:14 AM, unsafetydancer said:

Just saw an ad on here encouraging me to bet on the general election. Dear god and little fishes, is there no low that people will not stoop to in order to make light of this situation or to make some quick cash?

If anything would sum up politics in my country, it would be this.

Personally I am in favour of banning betting on elections and banning betting agency ads full stop.

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