Britain and Brexit business

[unsafetydancer]

7 hours ago, Ozlsn said:

If this goes ahead I feel MPs should be last in the queue for food, medicines etc. They want rationing, they can have it.

Durning the second world war a lot of politicians and wealthy folks just bought things on the black market, starving is for the poor.

[fraurosena]

 

[fraurosena]

HAH! A year? A whole year? You've had three years already and couldn't come up with a solution.

I don't believe the EU will be inclined to give in to this preposterous demand, especially after BoJo stood them up the other day and didn't show for the planned joined press-co.

 

[Glasgowghirl]

This is getting worse, I need to move elsewhere after my degree is finished.

[unsafetydancer]

I am concerned that I should move but I just found a job I love doing. Living in interesting times sucks balls.

[unsafetydancer]

Because this is in no way making us look even more like a banana republic:

 

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/sep/13/trump-orange-skin-hue-lightbulbs-energy-efficient?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Pages_Manager&fbclid=IwAR0CgyCqiUbzWFLvnqY2qZyg57_XPpvvsZuu9T-500zhdcw_4FGe5oStknw

 

I fucking despair of this government.

[fraurosena]

24 minutes ago, unsafetydancer said:

Because this is in no way making us look even more like a banana republic:

 

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/sep/13/trump-orange-skin-hue-lightbulbs-energy-efficient?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Pages_Manager&fbclid=IwAR0CgyCqiUbzWFLvnqY2qZyg57_XPpvvsZuu9T-500zhdcw_4FGe5oStknw

 

I fucking despair of this government.

I think you linked the wrong article there, @unsafetydancer. This one is about Trump and lightbulbs causing his orangeness.

[unsafetydancer]

Aw Bugger, so I did. Hang on...

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/sep/20/fresh-brexit-talks-row-uk-eu-proposals-secret?fbclid=IwAR3Ir2ZSXatMzH9Oe5Q9DMR4R34lZzdMHiJ2KaCzVnWEp3OBOptHjAJFnRc

[Ozlsn]

On 9/19/2019 at 9:55 PM, fraurosena said:

HAH! A year? A whole year? You've had three years already and couldn't come up with a solution.

You could give them till the end of time and they'd still be arguing.

A year might allow enough time for fresh elections and a new government though.

[fraurosena]

Unsurprising, but very satisfying nonetheless. 

What will happen to BoJo now? I do not think he will resign over this. His ego won't let him. Is he liable for prosecution though? Because after all, he did break the law...

But the most important question is, what happens to government now? If the prorogation was "unlawful, void and of no effect" does that mean parliament is in session again? If so, what then? It's not like Labour has any real plans. Will the LibDems take charge? 

Supreme Court rules Boris Johnson’s decision to prorogue parliament before Brexit ‘unlawful’

Quote

Britain’s Supreme Court has ruled Prime Minister Boris Johnson’s prorogation of Parliament was “unlawful void and of no effect.”

The decision was made by the maximum of 11 justices on Tuesday after it heard two appeals, one from the government and one from businesswoman Gina Miller.

Lady Hale, who has been President of the Supreme Court since September 2017 said it was “not a normal prorogation in the run up to a queen’s speech” in a calmly delivered but brutal judgement that ripped the government’s argument to shreds.

“The prolonged suspension of parliamentary democracy took place in quite exceptional circumstances,” she said.

“The effect on the fundamentals of our democracy remains extreme,” she said, adding that the government did not explain why it needed five weeks to prepare for a Queen’s speech rather than the typical 4-6 days.

“The court is bound to conclude that the decision to advise the Queen...was unlawful because it had the effect of frustrating or preventing the ability of parliament to carry out its functions.”

Protesters outside the court changed “Johnson out” and the Plaid Cymru leader said “Johnson must resign”.

The case marks a rare confrontation between the prime minister, the courts, and parliament over their rights and responsibilities, and also involves Queen Elizabeth II.

It revolves around whether Johnson acted lawfully when he advised the queen to suspend parliament for five weeks during a crucial time frame before the Oct. 31 Brexit deadline when Britain is scheduled to leave the European Union.

Johnson, who is in New York for the United Nations General Assembly, has refused to say whether he will resign if he is found to have broken the law, or will seek to shut down parliament again.

Britain’s highest court announced is decision after holding three days of hearings last week before 11 judges.

The government said the decision to suspend parliament until Oct. 14 was routine and not related to Brexit. It claimed that under Britain’s unwritten constitution, it is a matter for politicians, not courts, to decide.

The government’s opponents argued that Johnson illegally shut down parliament just weeks before the country is due to leave the 28-nation bloc for the “improper purpose” of dodging politicians’ scrutiny of his Brexit plans. They also accused Johnson of misleading the queen, whose formal approval was needed to suspend the legislature.

Johnson and parliament have been at odds since he took power in July with the determination to take Britain out of the EU on Oct. 31 with or without a divorce deal with Europe.

Parliament has passed a law requiring him to formally seek an extension if no deal is reached by mid-October, but Johnson has said he will not do that under any circumstances, setting the stage for future confrontations.

The suspension of parliament sparked several legal challenges, to which lower courts have given contradictory rulings. England’s High Court said the move was a political rather than a legal matter, but Scottish court judges ruled that Johnson acted illegally “to avoid democratic scrutiny.”

 

[fraurosena]

Some reactions to the news.

Labour:

The SNP

Guy Verhofstadt (MEP)

 

[fraurosena]

Nicola Sturgeon:

 

[Italiangirl]

I just saw the ruling and come here to know what you think about it...so what now? Neither the Labour or Bojo have any plans except from hard Brexit, and I don't see the EU give them another chance or time to discuss Brexit and backstop...is missing just a little bit more than a months to the 31 october...

[fraurosena]

BoJo's response to the verdict? He'll try and prorogue again. Because... (no deal) Brexit, come what may!

It's not surprising he disagrees. Most criminals disagree with court findings against them. Doesn't mean the verdict is wrong. Also, that verdict was unanimous. Eleven (!) justices all agreed BoJo acted unlawfully. There is not a smidgin of doubt in their findings. His opinion about it is moot.

Also, I have to say that this interviewer is doing a bloody good job of asking the right questions, and succinctly pointing out the blatant lie BoJo is spouting right after he says it. I would love to see the American press finally do the same thing to Trump and his cronies. 

[Glasgowghirl]

I have never particularly liked any of the PM's the country has had in my life time but Boris is definitely the one I hate the most. He can't even do basic things right and I believe David Cameron when he says he swutched to being pro Brexit last minute as a chance to grab power. 

People gave Brown and Major crap for having no charisma, which was true but I never felt embarrassed to have them as PM on a national stage the way I do with Boris, both men were always respectful to other leader's on a national stage. Boris has no diplomacy and if he wants to negotiate a different Brexit deal, he will get nowhere, him walking away from the stage in Luxembourg because people said a few mean things showed us that. 

Boris definitely closed Parliament to stop those critical of him forcing a no confidence vote and if an other election is called I believe a coalition of Labour, Lib Dems, SNP, PC and the former Conservative's kicked out by Boris will form a government. 

[fraurosena]

10 minutes ago, Glasgowghirl said:

Boris definitely closed Parliament to stop those critical of him forcing a no confidence vote and if an other election is called I believe a coalition of Labour, Lib Dems, SNP, PC and the former Conservative's kicked out by Boris will form a government.

This could well happen. However, the official Brexit date is looming near. I have my doubts on what any government, no matter who takes part in it, could do in the extremely short time period they have left. Here's my guesstimate timeline, if BoJo is indeed ousted:

1. Parliament convenes tomorrow. Brouhaha ensues. Will BoJo be ousted or not? 
2. Parliament convenes again on Thursday. More Brouhaha. BoJo is ousted, will elections be called?
3. Parliament convenes once more on Friday. Elections are called.
4. Sometime next week, an election date is set for the 10th of October. Preparations begin. All parties start campaigns.
5. Elections are held on the 10th of October. Results are in on the 11th. 
6. On Monday the 14th of October, the first sessions to form a government begin.
7. On Friday the 19th of October, a government is formed.

As you can see, in my guesstimated scenario, there is only little over a week to begin negotiations with the EU. If things go well (and there is absolutely no guarantee that they will, none of the parties have any semblance of a plan right now), then maybe a deal can be brokered --or maybe, if the EU thinks a deal can be made with just a little more time, a short extension will be granted. But that is the most optimistic scenario. I think the chances of that happening are slim. But who knows?

 

[unsafetydancer]

@fraurosena to the above: I'm glad that one of the first things I do whenever I move is sign myself back up to the electoral roll. While I welcome a general election I would also question how many, particularly young or working class, voters will be disenfranchised because they have recently moved. I hope they have the sense to be signing themselves up as we speak.

@Glasgowghirl I completely agree. Boris manages to be as rude and abrasive as Theresa May and as downright slimy as Tony Blair.

[fraurosena]

11 minutes ago, unsafetydancer said:

I'm glad that one of the first things I do whenever I move is sign myself back up to the electoral roll.

The need to do this is just so alien to me. We Dutch are automatically eligible to vote as soon as we turn 18. No need to sign up at all, not even once. We get the ballots in the mail -- also automatically -- about a month before the elections. All we have to do is turn up at the nearest polling station (usually within walking distance from one's home) and cast our votes.

 

[unsafetydancer]

47 minutes ago, fraurosena said:

The need to do this is just so alien to me. We Dutch are automatically eligible to vote as soon as we turn 18. No need to sign up at all, not even once. We get the ballots in the mail -- also automatically -- about a month before the elections. All we have to do is turn up at the nearest polling station (usually within walking distance from one's home) and cast our votes.

 

This seems like a much more sensible system.

[Ozlsn]

6 hours ago, Glasgowghirl said:

People gave Brown and Major crap for having no charisma, which was true but I never felt embarrassed to have them as PM on a national stage the way I do with Boris,

Charisma is very overrated. Especially when compared to competence, which both those two had in spades compared to Boris.

6 hours ago, fraurosena said:

maybe, if the EU thinks a deal can be made with just a little more time, a short extension will be granted. But that is the most optimistic scenario.

I think an extension is possible with a different governing coalition, but it would depend a lot on who ends up as PM and what the tone of the coalition is. I still think the EU would prefer a deal than not - not just because of the NI situation but because of the general destabilising effects.

 

2 hours ago, fraurosena said:

The need to do this is just so alien to me. We Dutch are automatically eligible to vote as soon as we turn 18. No need to sign up at all, not even once. We get the ballots in the mail -- also automatically -- about a month before the elections. All we have to do is turn up at the nearest polling station (usually within walking distance from one's home) and cast our votes.

Do you have to register change of address with someone though? We have* to enrol at 18 (actually you can enrol as a provisional voter at 17 for council elections) and then inform the Electoral Commission when you change address. There are always people (particularly students) who find themselves unexpectedly disenfranchised because the AEC realised they were no longer in their previous address (or at their parent's address) and took them off the rolls.

*technically you don't "have" to but it is compulsory to vote and I'm not sure 'not on the roll' would be accepted as a valid excuse after a while, particularly if you are at the same address.

[fraurosena]

12 minutes ago, Ozlsn said:

Do you have to register change of address with someone though?

Yes, of course. You have to register your address with the county you reside in. How else would they know where to send your ballots? 

[Ozlsn]

47 minutes ago, fraurosena said:

Yes, of course. You have to register your address with the county you reside in. How else would they know where to send your ballots? 

Sorry, poorly phrased question. Who do you have to register the change of address with? Here it's the electoral commission, because they maintain the electoral rolls and the other govt departments use their data to confirm who you are. Is it similar there, or do the electoral roll keepers get the data from a different department? Because it's an automatic enrolment it seems that someone already has that data , just curious as to who.

Edited September 24, 2019 by Ozlsn
More thoughts

[fraurosena]

9 minutes ago, Ozlsn said:

Sorry, poorly phrased question. Who do you have to register the change of address with? Here it's the electoral commission, because they maintain the electoral rolls and the other govt departments use their data to confirm who you are. Is it similar there, or do the electoral roll keepers get the data from a different department? Because it's an automatic enrolment it seems that someone already has that data , just curious as to who.

No worries! It wasn’t poorly phrased, I was being flip. 

In answer to your question: You register at the town hall. They share their population databases (which also includes births, marriages, divorces and deaths) with the national one. Our registration system eliminates the need for census taking too.

[fraurosena]

The message is pretty clear.

 

[Howl]