Thai boys stuck in cave

[dharmapunk]

21 hours ago, LiterallyBananas said:

BBC - Future - Cave rescue: The dangerous diseases lurking underground

According to this article (and piggybacking off what @Howl and @Palimpsest already said), the main diseases they're concerned about are histoplasmosis, leptospirosis, and melioidosis.

I'm definitely not an infectious disease expert but find it super interesting. Bear with me, and please correct me if I'm wrong. 

 

Thanks for the article, I found it very interesting. I am still slightly confused though, because I always thought histo and leptospirosis are actually not that contagious from human to human. It would probably take fairly close contact to blood or feces to catch it.

I tend to think that the boys' seperation from their families might be more to protect them from additional germs brought in by visitors. Or maybe the Thai doctors are just extra careful in this case because of the worldwide tv coverage.

[Howl]

Yes, the Floyd Collins story is so remarkably sad.  I've not been to Mammoth Cave, but understand that it's an amazing place. 

I did go back to Carlsbad Caverns on my honeymoon 13 years ago and it totally blew my mind all over again!  

I love karst topography, limestone, all of it.  Even when I see it in the background of an ad or in a movie, it gives me a little tingle. 

[Briefly]

10 hours ago, Howl said:

@LiterallyBananas, this may appeal to you nerd side; I find it ingenious to this day.  About twenty years ago, I went to a little caving convention (75 people or so) in South Texas.  Earlier that year, a group of Boy Scouts visited a cave, either in South Texas or northern Mexico, that was a known "histo cave".  They all contracted histoplasmosis, all became quite sick and some became very ill.  There were enough of them and they were sick enough that the episode found its way to the Center for Disease Control, who wanted some baseline information.  

At the caving convention, the CDC had set up a table at check-in, and gave everyone a scratch skin test for histoplasmosis and coccidioidomycosis (also called Valley Fever, dirt pneumonia), both fungal lung diseases.  The CDC folks read the test when people left on Sunday. My response to both was fairly robust (slightly raised reddened areas), and most Texas cavers there did test positive for histo.  

There's also something called blastomycosis (a yeasty fungi), but I'm not familiar with it.  

Several caver friends on fb have noted that it's not over 'til it's over.  At some point, surely after the monsoon season, people will go back in and clean up the cave, pulling out everything and anything that was left in the cave from the rescue and leave it in pristine condition. 

I know some of y'all might think of caves as creepy, awful places full of pests and disease (they're not), but these days, I'm much more concerned with contracting mosquito and tick borne illnesses that seem to be proliferating in an alarming way.  

 

 

Caves are interesting and I am not scared of them.  I've visited several, but on tours and not as a spelunker/caver.

I had not thought about the fact that the cave will need to be cleaned up and restored.  That makes sense, actually.

3 hours ago, Howl said:

Yes, the Floyd Collins story is so remarkably sad.  I've not been to Mammoth Cave, but understand that it's an amazing place. 

I did go back to Carlsbad Caverns on my honeymoon 13 years ago and it totally blew my mind all over again!  

I love karst topography, limestone, all of it.  Even when I see it in the background of an ad or in a movie, it gives me a little tingle. 

We went to Carlsbad a couple of times when I was a kid, my navy brother was stationed in Albuquerque and we always went to where he was stationed on summer vacation.  When I got married, January 1985, we realized that as redheads we could not go anywhere with a beach (too much sun!) so we went to Carlsbad Caverns.  It was the off-season and not crowded at all.

[LiterallyBananas]

8 hours ago, dharmapunk said:

Thanks for the article, I found it very interesting. I am still slightly confused though, because I always thought histo and leptospirosis are actually not that contagious from human to human. It would probably take fairly close contact to blood or feces to catch it.

I tend to think that the boys' seperation from their families might be more to protect them from additional germs brought in by visitors. Or maybe the Thai doctors are just extra careful in this case because of the worldwide tv coverage.

I agree with you, I think both disease vectors rarely involve human to human transmission. I'm guessing, too, that they're still not totally certain what the boys were exposed to. It may be precautionary until they can rule out contagious infections not mentioned in the article. And like you said, it could be to protect the boys as well.

[Terrie]

So apparently Pure Flix (best known for the God's Not Dead movies) is going to do an "inspirational" film based of these events. The company is trying to get into more family-friendly mainstream fare. Apparently, the CEO lives in Thailand at least part time and he claims the Thai SEAL who died was a friend of his wife. On the one hand, if they keep a lot of control of the story with locals, it might be passable. On the other hand, let's be realistic. The story will be completely Americanized to appeal to their American audiences, meaning that even if it's not explicitly Christian, the "inspirational" part will be oddly CChristian in flavor. Yuvk.

[Pecansforeveryone]

22 minutes ago, Terrie said:

So apparently Pure Flix (best known for the God's Not Dead movies) is going to do an "inspirational" film based of these events. The company is trying to get into more family-friendly mainstream fare. Apparently, the CEO lives in Thailand at least part time and he claims the Thai SEAL who died was a friend of his wife. On the one hand, if they keep a lot of control of the story with locals, it might be passable. On the other hand, let's be realistic. The story will be completely Americanized to appeal to their American audiences, meaning that even if it's not explicitly Christian, the "inspirational" part will be oddly CChristian in flavor. Yuvk.

I saw this and it burned me. I posted a Vox article about how the boys coach taught them Buddhist meditation to keep them calm. Thailand is still predominately Buddhist. I'm not sure what the beliefs were of the deceased Thai Navy Seal were, and it doesn't matter anyway. I just have some fear that they will focus one rescuers Christian beliefs and ignore the beliefs of all the other rescuers. 

[Buzzard]

5 minutes ago, Pecansforeveryone said:

I saw this and it burned me. I posted a Vox article about how the boys coach taught them Buddhist meditation to keep them calm. Thailand is still predominately Buddhist. I'm not sure what the beliefs were of the deceased Thai Navy Seal were, and it doesn't matter anyway. I just have some fear that they will focus one rescuers Christian beliefs and ignore the beliefs of all the other rescuers. 

There will be lots of scenes of them praying for Jesus to come and be their light, and LO AND BEHOLD the rescuers light will emerge from the depths.  They will gasp and fall to their knees and cry.

[Beermeet]

And now the stories begin!  Just amazing and I don't know what else to say about the fact rains started right after everyone was out except:  I'm pretty sure the whole world praying/thinking no rain actually worked!  

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/12/world/asia/thailand-cave-rescue-seals.html

[VelociRapture]

9 hours ago, Terrie said:

So apparently Pure Flix (best known for the God's Not Dead movies) is going to do an "inspirational" film based of these events. The company is trying to get into more family-friendly mainstream fare. Apparently, the CEO lives in Thailand at least part time and he claims the Thai SEAL who died was a friend of his wife. On the one hand, if they keep a lot of control of the story with locals, it might be passable. On the other hand, let's be realistic. The story will be completely Americanized to appeal to their American audiences, meaning that even if it's not explicitly Christian, the "inspirational" part will be oddly CChristian in flavor. Yuvk.

I read a joke online about how Hollywood will find an American somehow involved, make him (because it’s always a “him”) the focus of the film, and cast Scarlett Johansson as one of the Thai boys. 

(To her credit, Scarlett did pull out of the movie about the Transgender man. She shouldn’t have been up for it or take it to begin with, but still.)

 

[Howl]

Don't think this interview with one of the cave divers has been posted; it's the most detailed account I've read so far.  

“This is madness”: A rescue diver on what it was like to save the Thai boys in the cave  The divers searching for the boys almost gave up. Then, they had a near-perfect rescue mission.

 

[Howl]

An additional account making the rounds on fb

Spoiler

 

Richard Harris is with Craig Challen.

18 hrs

I am sitting in the back of an RAAF C17 on the way back to Australia with Craig and the amazing Australian team members from the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade, Australian Federal Police and Australian Defence Force. I feel like it is the first opportunity to really stop and reflect on the extraordinary events of the past 8 days since Craig and I were deployed as a small AUSMAT team to the rescue in Chang Rai in Northern Thailand.

By the time we arrived on site, local divers like Ben Reymenants and the awesome foursome from Britain (John Volanthen, Rick Stanton, Jason Mallinson and Chris Jewell) had already been doing the most extraordinary dives through the cave and laying the very robust rope which made all subsequent dives to the soccer team not only possible, but safe. The efforts and skill of these guys in blazing this trail cannot be underestimated. Following someone else’s line is very much easier than finding your own way. Rick and John not only found the children and coach alive, but conveyed the gravity of the situation to the rest of the world and thus the rescue started in earnest. The 4 Brits then did further supply dives to the soccer players, the coach and the four Thai Navy Seals which allowed them to prepare and sustain themselves for the rescue ultimately.

Meanwhile on the ground, the Thais and international community sent in swarms of men and women to provide everything from catering, communications, media and of course the huge teams of workers filling the cave with tonnes and tonnes of equipment to try and lower the water and sustain the diving operations. I have never seen anything like it with man battling to control the natural forces of the monsoon waters. Local climbing and rope access workers rigged the dry cave section for that part of the rescue and scoured the bush for more entrances to the cave. Drilling teams attempted to get through nearly a km of rock to the boy’s location. And all this time 4 brave Navy Seals sat with the Wild Boars knowing they were in as much danger as the kids.

When it seemed all other options were exhausted, the decision to swim the players out was made and the rescue went ahead. As the kids came out, the 4 British rescue divers were supported by Craig and I, three other very talented young CDG divers from the UK (Connor, Josh and Jim) and the ͞Euro divers͟ (Erik, Ivan, our good mate Claus and Nikko). The pressure that was put on these guys was immense and they never dropped the ball for a second.

When the kids and coach were delivered to chamber 3, the US pararescue teams, AFP SRG divers, Aussie CD, Chinese divers and Thai Navy and Military medics assessed the kids, then whisked them out of the cave to a field hospital before moving them to the massive hospital in Chang Rai centre. We were lucky to visit the boys, coach and Seals and all the beautiful medical and nursing staff in the hospital on our way home.

I wanted to write this to try and give credit to all the people who were in some way involved. Craig and I have had a spotlight on our efforts and we want to make everyone realise that while we might have become the face of this rescue for some reason, everyone should know that the role we played was no more or less important than all the many hundreds (perhaps thousands) of people I have mentioned. The part we played has been made out to be a lot more noble than it actually was, we just consider ourselves lucky to have had some skills that we could contribute to the wonderful outcome.

Special thanks to the NCCTRC and AUSMAT, DFAT, Australian Embassy Staff in Thailand, the Thai Tourist Police (our protectors!), local liaison, the local cavers. Our heartfelt condolences to the family of ex Navy Seal Saman Gunan who died during the rescue efforts.

At home we must thank our families for dealing with the media and the worry we caused them (they are used to the latter I fear). To MedSTAR and the SA Ambulance Service for the significant assistance and support especially from Drs James Doube and Andrew Pearce. To the team at Specialist Anaesthetic Services for the same. To the Cave Divers Association of 
Australia for handling the flurry of interest in our sport…the management team there has 
been amazing especially our best mate John Dalla-Zuanna. To the worldwide community of cavers and divers who have handled themselves with grace and dignity and tried to throw some facts the media’s way occasionally! Finally to the thousands of well-wishers from 
Thailand and around the world; we promise we have read every message!

Kittanu, Michael, Cameron, Andrew, Glenn, Jo and Grace… sorry to give you so much grief! Legends every one of you. To our new band of brothers; the Aussie, US , UK and 
Euro/Canadian divers - lifelong friendships and respect.

Harry and Craig

 

[Howl]

Good youtube interview of one of the rescuers, with good footage of the interior of the cave:

 

[Rachel333]

Video of the boys thanking rescuers and supporters

One of the divers who actually helped rescue the boys on Elon Musk

Quote

But Mr Unsworth described Musk’s offer to help as “just a PR stunt”.

“He can stick his submarine where it hurts,” he told CNN. “It had absolutely no chance of working. He had no conception of what the cave passage was like.

“The submarine, I believe, was about five foot six long, rigid, so it wouldn’t have gone round corners or round any obstacles.

“It wouldn’t have made the first 50 metres into the cave from the dive start point. Just a PR stunt.”

The experienced cave explorer said Musk was “asked to leave very quickly” after he turned up at the caverns during the rescue operation on Tuesday.

“And so he should have been,” he added.

I like this series of tweets about Musk:

Spoiler

 

 

 

By the way, today Musk was revealed to be a donor to a PAC dedicated to maintaining Republican control of congress.

Edited July 14, 2018 by Rachel333

[Beermeet]

@Rachel333   At first, I was like " yes, great, build some shit" because it was scary and anything was good in my head although the logistics seemed pretty off to me.  Now, I think Elon is an opportunist plain and simple.  He did that for himself and deserves the backlash.   Now I learn he is a Republican?!  Ew.  Go. Away. Elon.  

[Briefly]

I don't like Elon Musk, but at least he did offer to help.  I'm not surprised that his idea didn't work and I did think that he was probably after attention and publicity.  But if his methods had been the ones that brought the boys out, I would not have given him any grief over his original reasons for help.

[Rachel333]

39 minutes ago, Beermeet said:

@Rachel333   At first, I was like " yes, great, build some shit" because it was scary and anything was good in my head although the logistics seemed pretty off to me.  Now, I think Elon is an opportunist plain and simple.  He did that for himself and deserves the backlash.   Now I learn he is a Republican?!  Ew.  Go. Away. Elon.  

I didn't know much about him before all this and actually had a generally positive opinion of him, but now I really dislike him. Despite some criticism it has mostly turned out well for him, though; even though he did literally nothing to help people are still praising him while many of the people who actually did rescue the boys are getting no attention at all. Apparently all you have to do is offer to help and you're a hero. Like the tweets I posted in my last post said, he could have used his money to actually help the people who were really doing the work, but instead he shipped over something that wouldn't actually be useful in the rescue and is now sulking over getting calling him out for his useless publicity stunt.

I saw this comment on reddit that made me laugh:

Quote

"Well at least he tried"

I can't stand this apologist response. Imagine some random doofus barging into an surgeon's clinic, grabbing the scalpel from the capable Doctor's hands, fucking up the surgery. Does it make it okay because "well at least he tried?" No. It fucking doesn't. He had no place there, doesn't know shit, and should have left it to the actual experts in the field.

 

[Beermeet]

Article i liked because of the quotes from the boys and updates.  I don't like the mention of coach in that manner.  American sensationalism at play.  Must blame someone.   I am so impressed by the Thai spirit!  And, reports the boys and coach will spend time at a monestary to bless and heal, as is tradition.   How the Thai people are thankful for rescue and for coach's role in keeping the boys calm and cared for. Zero blame, just "life happens and yeah, we play in the caves, it was a freak thing"  They are so thankful, it's beautiful and refreshing! All the mention of Thai food is making me crave that rice/meat/basil dish they keep mentioning! It sounds delish!

https://abcnews.go.com/International/boys-rescued-cave-thailand-released-thursday/story?id=56582563

[LiterallyBananas]

On 7/12/2018 at 7:45 AM, Howl said:

@LiterallyBananas, this may appeal to you nerd side; I find it ingenious to this day.  About twenty years ago, I went to a little caving convention (75 people or so) in South Texas.  Earlier that year, a group of Boy Scouts visited a cave, either in South Texas or northern Mexico, that was a known "histo cave".  They all contracted histoplasmosis, all became quite sick and some became very ill.  There were enough of them and they were sick enough that the episode found its way to the Center for Disease Control, who wanted some baseline information.  

At the caving convention, the CDC had set up a table at check-in, and gave everyone a scratch skin test for histoplasmosis and coccidioidomycosis (also called Valley Fever, dirt pneumonia), both fungal lung diseases.  The CDC folks read the test when people left on Sunday. My response to both was fairly robust (slightly raised reddened areas), and most Texas cavers there did test positive for histo.  

There's also something called blastomycosis (a yeasty fungi), but I'm not familiar with it.  

Several caver friends on fb have noted that it's not over 'til it's over.  At some point, surely after the monsoon season, people will go back in and clean up the cave, pulling out everything and anything that was left in the cave from the rescue and leave it in pristine condition. 

I know some of y'all might think of caves as creepy, awful places full of pests and disease (they're not), but these days, I'm much more concerned with contracting mosquito and tick borne illnesses that seem to be proliferating in an alarming way.  

 

 

I had a full response to this written until I went to add an emoji... and then the site froze and RIP my comment.

Those caves aren't far from where I'm located. I wonder why they have such a high occurance of histoplasmosis. Also, any theories as to why you and fellow cavers tested positive to exposure but never became symptomatic, but the boy scouts did? (Other than it sounds like you didn't go to the Histo Cave.)

Caves scare me, but more for claustrophobia reasons than anything else. I wig myself out thinking about being underground surrounded by impenetrable rock. The other day I ran across something about Nutty Putty Cave, and now I definitely have no desire to explore caves ever. 

I agree with you, though, I'm more afraid of things outside in the light. Like fireants. 

[Rachel333]

Wow, Elon Musk is pathetic. He called the British diver who criticized him "pedo guy."

Is he going to stage a cave rescue of his own?

What is wrong with him?

 

Edited July 15, 2018 by Rachel333

[VelociRapture]

You know, I wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt. I thought it was a good idea to have someone working on some sort of backup plan in case it was needed. But he’s just such a fucking jackass that I just can’t. What a fucking crybaby. 

[wild little fox]

On 7/13/2018 at 9:23 AM, Pecansforeveryone said:

I saw this and it burned me. I posted a Vox article about how the boys coach taught them Buddhist meditation to keep them calm. Thailand is still predominately Buddhist. I'm not sure what the beliefs were of the deceased Thai Navy Seal were, and it doesn't matter anyway. I just have some fear that they will focus one rescuers Christian beliefs and ignore the beliefs of all the other rescuers. 

I'm pissed, too. The meditation and mindfulness that the coach taught them will protect them from PTSD and helped them process any trauma, and will continue to do so. In a Christian film that will not likely be brought to attention because it's not seen as biblical. American's need to make everything about themselves is astounding to me.

* See also Elon Musk, who is easily making my point for me. 

[Rachel333]

I also liked these tweets:

 

[Kangaroo]

To be honest, coming on where I was really confused why everyone was talking about his submarine. It didn't really gain any media attention here, and I personally figured that if they are saying divers can't fit through with their oxygen tanks, how could a personal submarine?

Ive always been a bit cautious of criticising Musk because he has a very vocal fanbase on sites I use, but being perfectly frank this seems like he wanted to get his name in the headlines. He comes off like a cartoon supervillain! 

Calling a man a pedophile for living in Thailand is exceptionally low. Not only does it insult the man (who actually risked his life to rescue these boys), but it's also an insult to the country. 

[ViolaSebastian]

It is such a shame that just when the world finally, *finally* has a news story that everyone can feel good about in these fractured times, that some blowhard has to be downright vile about it. Incredibly disappointed and embarrassed he's one of my countrymen. 

[VelociRapture]

51 minutes ago, Kangaroo said:

To be honest, coming on where I was really confused why everyone was talking about his submarine. It didn't really gain any media attention here, and I personally figured that if they are saying divers can't fit through with their oxygen tanks, how could a personal submarine?

Ive always been a bit cautious of criticising Musk because he has a very vocal fanbase on sites I use, but being perfectly frank this seems like he wanted to get his name in the headlines. He comes off like a cartoon supervillain! 

Calling a man a pedophile for living in Thailand is exceptionally low. Not only does it insult the man (who actually risked his life to rescue these boys), but it's also an insult to the country. 

I know someone who apparently works for him now. During the rescue she was defending him vigorously. I almost want to share this just to see what her reaction would be, but I’m not sure I’m really up for that particular level of meltdown. I mean, I just put the baby to bed and that was a big enough meltdown for me tonight.