Josiah and Lauren Part 9: Where Are They Honeymooning?

[amendgitan]

5 hours ago, Rachel333 said:

It simply is not true that men are at a disadvantage in custody battles just because they're men. That said, custody battles can be nasty for anyone and it's unfortunate to hear of those situations.

It still is, actually. At least generally. (I'm a family law attorney and represent a lot of dads).  It's getting better but the bias remains. 

3 hours ago, Alisamer said:

I could do Walt Disney world every year for the rest of my life and love it! And we do go to Myrtle Beach for at least a few days most years. But other than that I do like to go new places and do new things. I need more vacation time!

i will say the beach is something I feel like I NEED to go to sometimes. The smell, the breeze, the sound of the waves. There’s something calming about it for me. (Pisces who was conceived at the beach, so that could contribute!)

There are negative ions in the air at the beach. Tons. Which have a healing affect both physically and mentally. 

[IntrinsicallyDisordered]

What do you do in a case where you're crossing the border with your child but there is no other parent, like if they are deceased?  Do you have to carry a copy of their death certificate instead of a letter of permission? 

[Sky with diamonds]

2 hours ago, Audrey2 said:

My impression of Canada (I've been there once) is that it is like the U.S. in that there is so much to see, that one must visit multiple time. I don't see how you can even cover all of the good parts of a province in one trip, much like most of the U.S. States.

As for a honeymoon, I visited Mt. Rainier when I was 19, and that has been my fantasy honeymoon destination ever since. I'd love to stay in the National Parks lodge there and spend the time with my Sweetie hiking (among other things).

I never even travelled throughout my home province of Newfoundland, I'm ashamed to say. That will be fixed if I ever move back there. 

[Mama Mia]

5 hours ago, Rachel333 said:

I still see that as a system that favors men. It's part of how parenting is seen as a choice for men but an obligation for women. Look at how people tend to view single fathers vs. single mothers. Single mothers are blamed for all sorts of societal ills while single fathers are seen as heroes.

It's definitely true though that individual men can be harmed by a culture that favors men overall. Stay-at-home dads are often given a hard time, for example (though even then people often see the woman at fault--"he's whipped!"). 

How do you see that as a situation that favors men ? 

I think some of the generalizations you’re making are kind of outdated. Even in the early 80’s , it was offensive if someone said a Dad was “babysitting” his own kids. My mom would sometimes say it - and...ummm....nope. I would think that kind of thinking would have become exponentially more out of touch in the 35 years since ? And in the early 90’s we worked alternate shifts to hand-off kids between parents ( pro-tip - don’t do that - horrible for your relationship ) , and that was a REALLY common childcare juggle at the time -25+ years ago. 

While, in my work and life sphere disappearing dad’s aren’t uncommon - disappearing mom’s aren’t  rare. Most of the joint custody cases I know of, the parents split the kids time more or less 50/50 - depending on work, kids ages, living situation. Nursing babies spend more time with mom, but that is biology.  Some are the more typical more time with mom- but usually only if there are housing/distance/stability issues -and that often flips at adolescence. 

[nastyhobbitses]

Regarding travel: I'm an American living in the UK, and what I'm trying to do (when I can actually take a goddamn vacation) is go to countries I haven't been to. I've been to Germany plenty (family there), Spain, Portugal, Italy, Luxembourg, Iceland, Austria, Czech Republic, and Russia, but I want to visit entirely new countries before I revisit countries I've already been to. I'm going to Estonia in September to run the Tallinn Half Marathon, but before that, I want to find some time to do a trip to Ireland or maybe somewhere in Scandinavia, like Copenhagen or Helsinki. August Bank Holiday I might be doing a trip with friends to Wales, which should be fun, and I'm hoping that maybe I can sneak in a weekend this month to go somewhere not super touristy in France (as much as I want to see Paris, I think it's just going to be too crazy right now). I'm not sure if I'm going home for Christmas, but if I'm not, I might see about maybe a trip to Egypt, Tunisia, or Morocco (though I'm slightly uneasy about going as a solo woman who can't speak Arabic). 

This is what I love about living in Europe (at least until March 2019.....fuck Brexit you guys); it's a lot easier and cheaper to visit different countries. 

[Iamtheway]

2 hours ago, amendgitan said:

He looks happy here. But man that long post seems like a "she doth protest too much."

I really hope he is happy but I don’t think his smile reach his eyes in this photo either. Hopefully it’s just wedding nerves that are getting to him. 

Horrible believes aside. I don’t wish anyone being trapped in a loveless marriage. Especially at ages 23 and 19. That’s lots of years to be unhappy in ...

[bird]

7 hours ago, louisa05 said:

I just had to roll my eyes at they couldn't believe "they were finally here". FINALLY, people. FINALLY. At 23 and 19 after less than a year together. It's like they were going to be single forever or something when you get to that age, right?? And the wait for the wedding, I mean, wow, it was forever since they got engaged! Over three months! That's forever! 

Immaculate and flawless are always worth the wait in my opinion. Especially if you are going to be busting in anywhere. Such a weird mental picture. 

[Captain Obvious]

18 hours ago, Alisamer said:

Iceland is definitely trendy right now - I know of two men (a couple years out of college) who took trips there to propose! I'm trying to save up to go there this time next year, I've always wanted to go, and my friend who is from there is getting married there! Her parents and brother still live there.

Hot dammit - my husband proposed to me in Iceland, six years ago - does that mean he’s a trendsetter or just a follower?

I do think that liking Iceland has become a bit of a hipster thing (and Nordic stuff is also popular at the moment). Hopefully that also means the trend will die out, and everyone will discover Mongolia or something, because I want to go back there, but would hate to see it turn into some sort of trendy Game of Thrones viking theme park, and it wouldn’t take much for it to be overrun with tourists, given its population is only 300k.

7 hours ago, InTheNameofRufus said:

Next month we’re driving to Miami to jump on a cruise ship (yay!). I wonder if a Duggar would ever take a honeymoon cruise? Too much Nike! If it’s a Caribbean cruise, but what about an Alaskan one? Not as warm, all you can eat food and drink, entertainment. Seems like it may be an option one day! 

David and Priscilla Waller went on one, so it’s  possible. They also used it as an opportunity to hand out tracts.

I would genuinely have loved to be a fly on the wall of that cruise ship, for several reasons.

[Mama Mia]

47 minutes ago, Iamtheway said:

I really hope he is happy but I don’t think his smile reach his eyes in this photo either. Hopefully it’s just wedding nerves that are getting to him. 

Horrible believes aside. I don’t wish anyone being trapped in a loveless marriage. Especially at ages 23 and 19. That’s lots of years to be unhappy in ...

I agree. I hope he is happy. I hope she is happy. I hope they are happy together. 

And he’s only 21. Joe’s 23. So young. I know a few guys who got married that young. And more than a few who were dad’s at 21. Mostly they stayed good, involved, parents.... 

 

[SweetJuly]

3 hours ago, amendgitan said:

The airfare is subsidized because the government wanted to increase tourism. Super smart and it's worked. 

Looks like it worked too well. I recently read that Iceland is beginning to suffer from too much tourism now:

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-41725713

Tourism is always such a double-edged sword.

[Rachel333]

3 hours ago, Mama Mia said:

Even in the early 80’s , it was offensive if someone said a Dad was “babysitting” his own kids.

Wow, I wish that were true everywhere! It's something that has definitely bothered people for ages but I still hear that all the time.

And I do think it favors men if the men who do choose to parent get far more praise than the women who parent and are typically seen as just doing what they were supposed to be doing anyway. I see so many viral stories about single fathers who are praised for things like doing their daughters' hair, and you just don't see that with mothers.

Or the fact that childcare overwhelmingly falls to women means that men can have a career and be largely unaffected by having children while women see a massive drop in earnings. 

(Edit: It looks like that chart isn't showing up, but if you click it you should still be able to see it. It's also from the article I just linked.)

Spoiler

Generalizations are just that and of course overall trends are not always going to apply in individual situations, but everything I've described comes from patterns I'm still seeing now, though I do think things are changing.

[Rachel333]

4 hours ago, amendgitan said:

It still is, actually. At least generally. (I'm a family law attorney and represent a lot of dads).  It's getting better but the bias remains. 

I'm going by the statistics that say that fathers are more likely than women to win custody in disputed cases. Disturbingly, even abusive fathers can often get custody. This page cites a whole bunch of studies about that.

Again, that doesn't mean that individual cases can't have unfair outcomes for fathers! I'm sure it varies a lot by region too.

Anecdotally, there was an ugly custody dispute with a friend of a friend where the father won custody despite both teenage children testifying in court that they wanted to stay with their mother and the teenage daughter alleging sexual abuse by her father. The mother had been sexually abused as a child herself and it was actually used against her as she was described as being "oversensitive" to the idea of her own daughter being molested and was accused of trying to alienate the children from their father. I thought that was just a horrible isolated case, but apparently this is actually part of a wider trend. Here's a paper discussing it. From page 10:

Quote

Findings from this pilot study indicate the following: (1) mothers who alleged child sexual abuse lost primary custody 20% more often than mothers who did not allege abuse; (2) even where courts validated abuse allegations against fathers, the fathers received a custody outcome in their favor over 40% of the time; (3) fathers who alleged alienation were over twice as likely to receive a custody outcome in their favor as mothers who alleged alienation, a statistically significant result (OR 2.32, CI 1.19-4.51); (4) when courts substantiated fathers’ alienation claims, fathers were even more likely to win than mothers were when courts substantiated mothers’ alienation claims. (OR 4.41, CI 1.23-15.88); (5) Even when a court specifically found that fathers’ allegation of alienation was invalid, fathers were still statistically more likely to win than mothers (OR 4.97, CI 1.08-22.98); (6) Mothers alleging alienation against the father, but not alleging abuse (about 1/3 of the cases), won their alienation claims about as often as fathers. Additional preliminary results are contained in “Figures” (attached hereto).

Again, "mothers who alleged child sexual abuse lost primary custody 20% more often than mothers who did not allege abuse." That is horrifying.

[VelociRapture]

8 hours ago, ElephantPatronus said:

I grew up in Amish country (and have always lived within a 75 mile radius)-honestly, I would skip that part. It’s pretty much a tourist trap. Yes, the rolling hills and farmlands are beautiful, but PA is filled with that same kind of landscape that you would see anyway if you are driving to other spots like Gettysburg (which I highly recommend.) If you decide to go, I recommend Dutch Wonderland. It’s a great little amusement park for kids.

I've been to Amish country before, so I know it’s a tourist trap. I was mostly thinking about how good some of the food is. 

I’ve also already been to Gettysburg twice and I know how absolutely gorgeous the park is. I loved walking around a small part of it with my husband a few years ago. My parents took us when I was 9 as well and that was the first time we found the marker for the unit my ancestor fought with. Mom made us take photos next to it because she was so excited. We did one of the audio tours from the car that time, but we stopped a bunch of times so we could get out and explore. It’s insane thinking about the type of carnage and violence that happened in such a beautiful place.  

ETA: I haven’t been to Dutch Wonderland though, so that’s an idea I’ll definitely keep in mind!

[Rachel333]

I live near Amish country now. I actually do like driving around and seeing all the Amish people and their farms.

I think if you want to do something touristy, do it! Touristy things are usually that way for a reason and sometimes I think they get an unfair reputation. So many tourists want to prove they're not like all the other tourists. They're cool travelers, not like the boring tourists!  It's like with Iceland: do the Blue Lagoon if you want to! It can be fun even if it's touristy.

[nvmbr02]

I feel very fortunate that we have been able to travel, My husband and I lived in Italy for 3 years ( we are American) and our oldest was born there. We traveled a lot during those three years. I had one prior trip to Germany before we moved there, We took some time off major international travel while our kids were small. We did do a bunch of road trips and visited Disneyland and World and spent a couple week in Hawaii.  We did one road trip in Canada (we lived in Minnesota). In the last two years though we have really stepped up our travel game. We have been to Hong Kong, Thailand, South Korea and the Philippines.  

Future travel plans-

Japan in October 2018

Australia and New Zealand (cruise) March 2019

Then we move back to the continental United States May 2019.

Short term travel goals-

Alaska summer 2020 (likely land and cruise vacation)

Europe spring or summer 2021. We aren't sure where yet but it will include Italy since we want to take our oldest to where she was born. Thinking it will be Italy, Croatia and Greece but that may change. We have some really good friends in Germany so we may try to fit that in or just change the destination all together. 

Long term travel goals

Peru

Iceland (I've wanted to go for about 6 years now, DH doesn't want to so I'm hoping to go with my sister.

Thailand, Laos, Cambodia and Vietnam. Dh has been to Vietnam and loved it. Thailand has been my favorite country so far. So we'd like to take 4-5 weeks and really explore. This isn't likely to happen until our 9 year old is at least an adult. We will probably try to do it when DH retires for his primary job and starts teaching full time, so in about 10 years. 

 

 

 

[IntrinsicallyDisordered]

12 minutes ago, VelociRapture said:

I've been to Amish country before, so I know it’s a tourist trap. I was mostly thinking about how good some of the food is. 

I’ve also already been to Gettysburg twice and I know how absolutely gorgeous the park is. I loved walking around a small part of it with my husband a few years ago. My parents took us when I was 9 as well and that was the first time we found the marker for the unit my ancestor fought with. Mom made us take photos next to it because she was so excited. We did one of the audio tours from the car that time, but we stopped a bunch of times so we could get out and explore. It’s insane thinking about the type of carnage and violence that happened in such a beautiful place.  

ETA: I haven’t been to Dutch Wonderland though, so that’s an idea I’ll definitely keep in mind!

We went to Gettysburg for a 5th grade field trip and it triggered my love of history.  They gave us each a misshapen bullet that had been dug out of a field and I remember it helped me grasp the enormity of the battle, that there were so many bullets they could give them out like candy to school kids.  I still have it in my keepsake box.

[HereticHick]

If I recall, the Duggars went to Stonehenge and JB and everyone else either looked bored or said stupid things, except for Josiah who I believe had some good questions and/or comments. That was before multiple tours at Alert Academy brainwashed all the critical thinking skills out of him.

I'd love for him to honeymoon somewhere with historical interest in hopes of reigniting that spark in him.

As for Lauren, she seems to be such a basic fundy maiden that I can't imagine what kind of travel she'd be interested in.

[HarleyQuinn]

1 hour ago, Rachel333 said:

I

I think if you want to do something touristy, do it! Touristy things are usually that way for a reason and sometimes I think they get an unfair reputation

This. When I went to Ireland, we went to the Blarney Stone, and everyone was like "Really, you're going there. It's so touristy." No way, Blarney Castle sits on 30 beautiful acres and walking through those gardens was stunning. I'm glad I went. 

[bashfulpixie]

People who travel - do any of you do your traveling alone? Most of my friends don’t have the either means or the paid leave to travel and I’m currently single. Which means if I don’t do something alone, I don’t do it at all. 

[HereticHick]

16 minutes ago, bashfulpixie said:

People who travel - do any of you do your traveling alone? Most of my friends don’t have the either means or the paid leave to travel and I’m currently single. Which means if I don’t do something alone, I don’t do it at all. 

I often do part of my travelling alone, then meeting up with my husband, and I'm often alone during the day while he does work stuff.  Setting your own schedule and spending as long as you want at a museum or historic site or market can be incredibly liberating.  Meals are the lonely thing.

[Alisamer]

I haven't traveled alone, but that's because I usually need someone to help cover some of the travel/accommodation costs! I would love to try traveling alone sometime - it'd be nice not to have to accommodate anyone else. I know that in Paris we didn't see the Pompidou Center - partly because of time, partly because I realized my sisters would not enjoy the art there! 

My sister goes to Walt Disney World alone fairly often. I think maybe going somewhere you're familiar with first might be a good way to try and see if you enjoy traveling alone.

[HermioneSparrow]

1 hour ago, bashfulpixie said:

People who travel - do any of you do your traveling alone? Most of my friends don’t have the either means or the paid leave to travel and I’m currently single. Which means if I don’t do something alone, I don’t do it at all. 

I was just thinking about my vacations.. I've traveled alone once, most of the time I did it with my sister but next vacations I might have to do it alone. I say do it, sometimes it's wonderful because you can do whatever you want.

I'm thinking about going to Rio on my next vacation btw... Have to save a bit of money though.

[GuineaPigCourtship]

On 7/5/2018 at 3:34 AM, Million Children For Jesus said:

I’m actually kind of curious to know where FJers are traveling. Every region seems to have their own choice of popular destination spot and travel trends are constantly changing.

In Connecticut, the hot destination is Ireland because they now have direct flights (Aer Lingus is using us as a hub).  We went there last fall and I feel like a bunch of people have gone recently or are planning on going, way more than I'm used to talking about international travel.

[SeekingAdventure]

1 hour ago, bashfulpixie said:

People who travel - do any of you do your traveling alone? Most of my friends don’t have the either means or the paid leave to travel and I’m currently single. Which means if I don’t do something alone, I don’t do it at all. 

I basically only travel alone. might be more expensive, due to the fact that you can't share costs of hotels rental cars etc. but you are the person that decides what you do. 

walk through a museum all day, bum at the beach, browse in antique shops or book stores, all up to you...

i love taking pictures so not being stressed about going to the next place is worth it!

 

my travel plans atm

- holiday in September/October probably a safari. haven't decided yet where, Tanzania and Namibia are high contenders

- short trip to somewhere in Europe 10 days in August/September: either Faro, Somewhere in Scandinavia or Lufthansa surprise. who knows where i'll end up

-Japan probably next spring (2019)

and then I might go to Thailand in November/December but that depends on my friend getting into school or not. if she does I'll go to Fiji or the Philippines instead and maybe to western Australia in January/February

other than that I still have alot of the Us on my list: Alaska, New Orleans, Phoenix, Portland, chicago and wherever i can go to in Canada 

I'd love to see Iceland too though but my list keeps getting longer and i've decided I've got to check off some places before adding new ones. Been pushing Japan and Safari back in favor of Scotland this year (thanks to you folks)

[GeoBQn]

My travel plans:

Labor Day Weekend--Cuba with a group tour to visit the Jewish community

November--Iceland for a long weekend with my husband, Dad, and brother

May--Japan for a longer trip, which has always been on my husband's "must see" list.  We want to go before the Olympic frenzy.

I've had an interest in going to Georgia (as in, the former Soviet republic), but I'm not sure how to make that happen since it's not convenient to get to.  I also feel awkward asking my husband to go with me since he hasn't traveled as much.  "I know you haven't been to Paris or Barcelona, but doesn't Tbilisi sound nice?"

Whoever asked for advice on North Africa, Egypt was my least favorite travel destination.  I went before the revolution, and I can't imagine it's improved.