Tales From the Fainting Couch

[Rachel333]

At best chiropracty can work somewhat as a form of therapeutic massage, but the profession is rife with pseudoscience and even the basis for it, the idea that misalignments cause poor health throughout the rest of the body, is not based in evidence. And at worst chiropractors can be downright dangerous.

[jjmennonite]

I know anecdotes are not the plural of data. I also know someone who lost a beautiful 9 month baby, a fellow Mennonite, from a chiropractic treatment. Mennonites are very into chiropractors. My friend was offered a fre treatment for her baby, while at her own treatment. The baby stroked out until he died. 

Subluxation is a real word, and passes spellcheck. It’s the basis of chiropractic treatment. There is no science behind it. 

[MarblesMom]

17 minutes ago, jjmennonite said:

Subluxation is a real word

Oh Lordy yes it is.  When your kneecap ends up on the side of your leg, from something as simple as rolling over in bed....yeah.

My sympathies to the parents who lost their child.  I am stunned and very sad to read that.

[Soulhuntress]

3 hours ago, DangerNoodle said:

I think Chiropractors are legitimate, at least in the US. I know the education and regulation vary throughout the world though. There are just too many people who have been helped by chiropractors for it to be all placebo. I think if it was all placebo then something like Crystal Healing would be equally as popular.

No.  If they stick to their lane (although a CMT or PT is a far better choice) they have a limited function.  Too many believe the Woo.  

[MamaJunebug]

On 6/25/2018 at 3:28 PM, Marian the Librarian said:

Yes! I've been noticing this for years, actually, on several of the blogs/FB pages/IGs we follow here. Lyme disease this, gluten-free that, Plexus-cures-it-all, essential oils with every meal. Modern-day versions of the vapors, I say. 

Young women's responses to being steeped in the patriarchal fundamentalist crazy, laden with expectations of supreme purity, then marriage to someone of daddy's choosing, followed by years of militant fecundity? Makes sense to me. Being a delicate buttercup on the fainting couch might look like an attractive alternative to the fate of someone like "sturdy" Kelly Bradrick.

 

@Marian the Librarian, because you are probably among the top 3 in my pantheon of FJ goddessii, I would be honored  to address a certain subject under your aegis.

Namely: the vapors versus swooning.

”The vapors” is so much fun to say but it’s not what we’re talking about when we refer to delicate maids fainting dead away at one non-patriarchal thing or another. 

Swooning = fainting

The vapors = FARTS! Oh how I love this bit of  Victoriana!  

Ever on my quest to enlighten folks—and to have a reason to say FARTS!!!

i remain your loyal admirer, MJB

PS: Doug Philips has the vapors!!!!

Michael and Debi Pearl ARE the vapors!

(rotfl at my own funnehs...)

[Terrie]

13 hours ago, DangerNoodle said:

I think Chiropractors are legitimate, at least in the US. I know the education and regulation vary throughout the world though. There are just too many people who have been helped by chiropractors for it to be all placebo. I think if it was all placebo then something like Crystal Healing would be equally as popular.

Chiro is, at it's best, a form of physical therapy for mechanical neck and back issues. At it's worst, it's a hodge-podge of dangerous nonsense. https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/inside-chiropractic-yesteryear-and-today/

[Lisafer]

I have met many chiropractors. Some are focused on manually adjusting the spine and manipulating joints, and I've seen them really help people. Other chiropractors insist that chiropractic can heal anything, which makes me suspicious, because I've never found a medical treatment that is a cure-all for everything!

There are definitely risks associated with chiropractic care, as with any treatment. I would hesitate, however, to call it all "woo." My husband, the medical skeptic, has seen his shoulder and back issues improve greatly over the past few months with chiropractic care, when the allopathic doctors did very little except throw pills at him. 

I understand that this may not be everybody's experience, of course.

[EowynW]

Mr EW works on concrete all day 5-6 days a week. Chiro visits and good shoes are the only things that keep him going. There are woo chiros out there but I wouldn't label them all as woo people. 

[Lisafer]

2 minutes ago, EowynW said:

Mr EW works on concrete all day 5-6 days a week. Chiro visits and good shoes are the only things that keep him going. There are woo chiros out there but I wouldn't label them all as woo people. 

I see you understand the tribulations of being married to a man with back issues and a physical job! But seriously, my hubby doesn't complain nearly as much about pain since he started getting adjustments. They x-rayed him first and explained all his back issues before he began treatment. 

[3splenty]

14 hours ago, Lisafer said:

Women's health issues are not taken seriously, period. It's too easy for doctors to diagnose "anxiety" or "depression" and hand out a pill when there could be an actual physical issue. I have anxiety, depression, and OCD. But the fact that I also had a congenital heart condition was overlooked, in spite of my complaints of fatigue/racing heartbeat/inability to exercise. It was overlooked until I was 29 and it almost killed me. I'm still a tiny bit pissed that nobody caught it all those years.

I wholeheartedly agree.  I went to ER having a stroke and I was told I was having a panic attack and sent home.  My neurologist was beyond pissed.  But the more you insist, the more you're labeled a fraud or faker.   I do have anxiety and depression, but I also have physical issues.  It sucks when you get treated like a less-than because you're female.

[Terrie]

@Lisafer, read the article I linked. No one here has poo-pooed chiro for mechanical back pain. What we're complaining about is that  the field is based on the idea that "subluxations" of the spine can cause, well, everything. The founder claimed to have cured someone's deafness by adjusting their spine.  Until professional orgs and schools start promoting and enforcing the limits of scientifically based chiropractic care, it deserves all the dubious responses it gets. 

[Lisafer]

9 minutes ago, Terrie said:

@Lisafer, read the article I linked. No one here has poo-pooed chiro for mechanical back pain. What we're complaining about is that  the field is based on the idea that "subluxations" of the spine can cause, well, everything. The founder claimed to have cured someone's deafness by adjusting their spine.  Until professional orgs and schools start promoting and enforcing the limits of scientifically based chiropractic care, it deserves all the dubious responses it gets. 

I wasn't arguing with you. I was replying to some of the commenters just to clarify that some chiropractors are legitimate medical practitioners. In my reply I pointed out that I am dubious of practitioners who claim that chiropractic is a cure-all.

I work in an allied health field. I am well aware of the pros and cons of chiropractic.

@jjmennonite I am so sorry about the baby that passed. I won't let my children have chiropractic care because I'm not convinced that their tiny, flexible spines need any "adjustment," and because of the inherent risks. 

[3splenty]

@Lisafer, my stance is that conventional and holistic medicine can work together and can produce great outcomes.  But none of them is a cure-all.  Plus, people also need to be pro-active in their care and not expect a pill, oil, etc. to magically cure everything with no effort.

So it sounds like we agree.

[Lisafer]

12 minutes ago, 3splenty said:

@Lisafer, my stance is that conventional and holistic medicine can work together and can produce great outcomes.  But none of them is a cure-all.  Plus, people also need to be pro-active in their care and not expect a pill, oil, etc. to magically cure everything with no effort.

So it sounds like we agree.

I think we do!  As an allied-health care worker, I would never suggest that people use my services instead of seeing a licensed medical doctor. "You should ask your physician about that" is my mantra when people try to get me to diagnose them. 

[Rachel333]

Regarding treatment of women in medicine, I feel like a lot of "alternative medicine" practitioners exploit the known issues of women being treated poorly in medicine and use it to sell their own brand of bullshit to women, which is often much worse. The natural birth industry is a good example because there have been and still are a ton of issues with obstetrics and how women are treated, but what the alternative crew offers women is often far more dangerous.

[3splenty]

1 hour ago, Lisafer said:

I see you understand the tribulations of being married to a man with back issues and a physical job! But seriously, my hubby doesn't complain nearly as much about pain since he started getting adjustments. They x-rayed him first and explained all his back issues before he began treatment. 

My hubby has also has back issues and a physically demanding job.  He also goes to a massage therapist and she does the cupping technique.  He's had great relief with that, as well.

[Lisafer]

2 minutes ago, 3splenty said:

My hubby has also has back issues and a physically demanding job.  He also goes to a massage therapist and she does the cupping technique.  He's had great relief with that, as well.

Cupping is awesome!

[keen23]

I see the mystery illnesses that doctors can't diagnose in Moms Groups too. As kids start to get older, all of a sudden these women have neurological and physical ailments that make them take to their bed/post all the time in private Facebook groups (which, yes, I'm part of some of them). It becomes a whole subset of who is sickest and who has the most interesting symptoms.

[IntrinsicallyDisordered]

1 hour ago, 3splenty said:

I wholeheartedly agree.  I went to ER having a stroke and I was told I was having a panic attack and sent home.  My neurologist was beyond pissed.  But the more you insist, the more you're labeled a fraud or faker.   I do have anxiety and depression, but I also have physical issues.  It sucks when you get treated like a less-than because you're female.

It's baffling how many people, doctors or otherwise, assume that once a woman has a mental health problem there is no way she can ever develop a physical one.  If only!

[pandorasjen]

I homeschool my kids and I'm in a bunch of homeschool groups on Facebook. I see this A LOT! Also, no one ever just goes to the doctor. They all just play 'what's this rash' all day and get told to put oils on everything.

[Marian the Librarian]

12 hours ago, MamaJunebug said:

@Marian the Librarian, because you are probably among the top 3 in my pantheon of FJ goddessii, I would be honored  to address a certain subject under your aegis.

Namely: the vapors versus swooning.

”The vapors” is so much fun to say but it’s not what we’re talking about when we refer to delicate maids fainting dead away at one non-patriarchal thing or another. 

Swooning = fainting

The vapors = FARTS! Oh how I love this bit of  Victoriana!  

Ever on my quest to enlighten folks—and to have a reason to say FARTS!!!

i remain your loyal admirer, MJB

PS: Doug Philips has the vapors!!!!

Michael and Debi Pearl ARE the vapors!

(rotfl at my own funnehs...)

MJB, you crack me up!

One of my grandmothers had several bottles of (amazingly strong) smelling salts on her vanity table. I couldn't keep away, eye-watering whiffs be damned. When I heard the phrase "the vapors," it got linked in my juvenile brain to the idea of delicate feminine swooning, the cure for which was waving said smelling salts under the lady's nose - and there the inaccuracy has remained, all these decades. So I'm very happy to be corrected on this topic!

My dear Mr. MtL had quite an audible bout of the vapors last night, and our cat's startle reaction was priceless. I only wish I'd had my cell phone camera at the ready.

Love you, love FJ - always learning something new!

 

[Lisafer]

15 minutes ago, pandorasjen said:

I homeschool my kids and I'm in a bunch of homeschool groups on Facebook. I see this A LOT! Also, no one ever just goes to the doctor. They all just play 'what's this rash' all day and get told to put oils on everything.

Welcome, fellow homeschooler! Yeah, their kids probably have rashes because of the oils!

[pandorasjen]

@Lisafer yay another homeschooler! Did we just become best friends?! 

[hoipolloi]

It is truly amazing the way these folks have no qualms about dropping hundreds or even thousands of $$$ on oils, Plexus or whatever the snake-oil-of-the-day happens to be, but they bellow like bulls of Bashan about co-pays at an MD's office.

 

[PennySycamore]

@DangerNoodle, there are two kinds of chiropractors:  "straights" and "mixers".  Both schools of chiropractic thought can have quacks though.  The "straights' think that vertebral subluxation causes pretty much everything, but while 'mixers' do not and are more open to other treatment modalities.  A 2013 Cochrane Review found that chiropractic treatment was not effective in treating back pain while a 2018 Cochrane Review found chiropractic spinal manipulation as effective in treating back pain as physical therapy.  The other thing about chiropractors is their connection to certifiable pseudoscientific woo such as the anti-vac movement and anti-fluoridation efforts.