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We don’t know exactly what Ben does. We do know that he doesn’t appear to change his mind every five seconds, drag his wife and kids around with him from one failed scheme to the next, harass people o

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justmissedquiver
On 8/5/2018 at 2:57 PM, BernRul said:

Actually, I think it soudns more like the bystander effect. We all like to think of ourselves as moral and heroic people, but truthfuly, when something bad happens most of us do nothing/go along with the group. Peer pressure is a real thing. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bystander_effect

 

Milgram's experiment, Stanford Prison experiment, Kitty Genovese' murder; Its been proven time and again that people will do terrible things under social influence.

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farmerannie

To give everyone a little back story. I had 3 children by the time I was 24. First and last happened on birth control so after the last I got my tubs tied.

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BernRul
4 minutes ago, justmissedquiver said:

Milgram's experiment, Stanford Prison experiment, Kitty Genovese' murder; Its been proven time and again that people will do terrible things under social influence.

I read about all of those in The Lucifer Effect when I was 15. That book changed the way I looked at the world. It was also depressing as hell.

 

3 minutes ago, tabitha2 said:

They still must be held responsible for the choices they make.

No one said they shouldn't. Believe me, I think the world would be a better place if we all owned up to what we did. But at the same time, the kind of thinking* that "wouldn't act that way...would always do the right thing" doesn't help because the truth is, most humans would not stand up and do the right thing. I think being aware of that actually helps make people more likely to fight against the Bystander effect. 

*I'm not saying that's how you specifically think, I'm talking about people in general. 

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Pecansforeveryone

There have been specials on the Kitty Genovese story that say people did call the police.  Her brother interviews neighbours to get the full story.  Some of the neighbours didn't realize a violent attack was taking place, thinking instead it was a lover's quarrel or drunk's quarrel. Most of the witnesses couldn't actually see the attack taking place. A 70 year old neighbour ran outside to cradle Kitty in her arms until the police arrived. It was a very interesting special. 

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BernRul
3 minutes ago, Pecansforeveryone said:

There have been specials on the Kitty Genovese story that say people did call the police.  Her brother interviews neighbours to get the full story. 

I believe that the numbers were exaggerated in Kitty Genovese's case. That doesn't change other experiments though, like the Standford prison experiment or Milgram's experiment where people continued to "shock" patients (really actors) because doctors told them to. 

The Lucifer Effect also detials several instances of mass murder like the massacres in Vietnam during the war, Khmer Rouge, the genocides in Rawanda and Sudan, and prison abuses like Abu Gharib that show how humans will go along with mob mentality, or ignore the abuses they see. Not to mention things like Nazi Germany or several events that happened in the United States. The Waco Horror Incident is another brutal and disgusting example of how people go along with evil. 

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feministxtian
1 hour ago, tabitha2 said:

They still must be held responsible for the choices they make.

So, would you like to shit on me for the choices I made 20+ years ago? 10 years ago? Yesterday? Today? How do you know what they think in their heart of hearts? There's a certain advantage to keeping one's mouth shut and keeping the peace. Not just in fundie-land but in many families. 

Growth and change is a process. The 2nd gen Duggar (and Bates) kids have been out of the TTH for how long? You see exactly what they want you to see, nothing more and nothing less. Guesses can be made about some of the kids (Dillards), but for the most part, the public hasn't a clue. 

 

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farmerannie
43 minutes ago, feministxtian said:

So, would you like to shit on me for the choices I made 20+ years ago? 10 years ago? Yesterday? Today? How do you know what they think in their heart of hearts? There's a certain advantage to keeping one's mouth shut and keeping the peace. Not just in fundie-land but in many families. 

Growth and change is a process. The 2nd gen Duggar (and Bates) kids have been out of the TTH for how long? You see exactly what they want you to see, nothing more and nothing less. Guesses can be made about some of the kids (Dillards), but for the most part, the public hasn't a clue. 

 

This is exactly why I posted. You can't know the damage that comes from being abused, being told every day from the time your 18 to 30, what to do, how to act, and what it does, then add on to that the brain washing you got your entire life. Do I wish I could go back and undo some off the damage I did to my children, that are my world, Of course. But I can't all I can do is change me and hope others will see how hard it was to change me.

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nastyhobbitses

I want to believe that people are good and can change for the better, but good people and people who are willing to try to be good are the exception rather than the rule. 

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