Mr & Mrs Jill Duggar 60: The Shilling Dillards

[Pecansforeveryone]

I don't like the idea of the suppression of unjust/unkind systems and ideas by cutting off even the choice/chance dream/opportunity, etc because just maybe years in the future abuse could happen. (Basically, I don't like stripping people of liberty and autonomy because they might abuse it.) Yes, the battle always goes on. I'm as weary as anybody. I don't like "fighting dirty" along the way. 

[Lisafer]

57 minutes ago, feministxtian said:

in favor of nationwide marijuana legalization

I wait for nationwide marijuana legalization the way Christians wait for the second coming  

[Daisy0322]

43 minutes ago, JoiseyGoil said:

Would it really be better if these fundie women got the oppertunity to go to college or law school, only to become more Sarah Palins, Betsy DeVoses, Kirstjen Nielsens? 

Yes because then they'd at least have opportunities and the possibility to change their views and become better educated. Not to mention they could chose their own identity and not just be wife and mother 

[Illmarryyoujana]

44 minutes ago, JoiseyGoil said:

Would it really be better if these fundie women got the oppertunity to go to college or law school, only to become more Sarah Palins, Betsy DeVoses, Kirstjen Nielsens? 

That’s a very unlikely way for things to go. Are you insinuating it’s better these girls not be educated?

[luv2laugh]

Here is a direct quote from the "Beliefs" section of Lighthouse Baptist Church in Fayetteville, AR where Kendra's father is the pastor and the Duggar family now attends:

"10. Biblical Separation
We believe that all the saved should live in such a manner as not to bring reproach upon their Savior and Lord; and, that separation from all religious apostasy, all worldly and sinful pleasures, practices and associations is commanded of God. Romans 12:1-2; I John 2:15; II John 1:9-11; James 1:27"

Can you HONESTLY say that Jinger and Jill (despite how crazy & hateful Derick is) currently follow the IFB standards of Biblical Separation?
Jill has now admitted to going to the movie theater and listening to CCM music.  Whatever you want to label them, Gothardites, IFB, super fundie  IFB, etc. they typically wear skirts to the knee (at minimum), cover their shoulders, do not go to movie theaters, and do not listen to music as they view them as part of the world and worldly entertainment. Some may consider people like Billy Graham, Mike Pence, Sarah Huckabee Sanders, Sarah Palin, etc. fundie however they certainly don't meet the standards of IFB Biblical Separation. Crazy evangelical?  Yes, but not IFB fundies.

It's correct that conservative evangelicals and mainstream Southern Baptists (AND Mormons) have more power to enact harmful change because they interact with the world and engage in "worldly pleasures" frequently. No one really pays attention to the IFB fundies living in rural Kansas or the Wallers & Staddons living in Big Sandy, TX.

Regarding education, I don't care how much I disagree with one person but I want EVERY SINGLE PERSON to have the SAME opportunities for advancement.  Just because I disagree with one person's beliefs does not mean that they shouldn't be able to obtain a certain quality of life, goal, or dream.

[Daisy0322]

3 hours ago, Illmarryyoujana said:

That’s a very unlikely way for things to go. Are you insinuating it’s better these girls not be educated?

@JoiseyGoil Education is always the answer in my opinion! Has anyone here read "Half the Sky"? I'd highly suggest it to everyone and anyone but especially if your doubting the benefits for educating women and providing them equal opportunities.

It may also come in documentary form I forget 

[Iamtheway]

6 hours ago, SilverBeach said:

All people who voted for Dump are not fundy, but all fundies voted for Trump, many of them because they were told to vote for him.

Ben didn’t. And told the world about it too. 

[Rachel333]

Yeah, there are plenty of fundies who hate Trump and didn't vote for them. 

[Chewing Gum]

There are new video’s up on the Dillards website and in the middle one Jill is making icecream/rootbeer and telling the kids to go to “Emily” for toppings. Who is Emily? 

 

Edit; found her in the first video, about Johanna’s age?

[VelociRapture]

New caption time!

”When you’ve been making a lot of assumptions and see Cathy approaching with a wooden spoon.”

”When you trying to play it cool because Derick is pissy that his phone is mysteriously “missing.””

[VelociRapture]

11 hours ago, SilverBeach said:

Would like this a thousand times if I could. These folks want a theocracy and to impose their morality on everyone. They are indeed dangerous.

We know they voted for Trump because thy loudly proclaim it! They are proud of it!  All people who voted for Dump are not fundy, but all fundies voted for Trump, many of them because they were told to vote for him.

Like overturning Roe v. Wade. I shudder at the thought that the government would be back to controlling women's bodies in this way. It's hard enough now to obtain a legal abortion in many places. Gilead here we come.

I agree with most of this, but not all Fundies voted for him. We know Ben Seewald didn’t because he flat out said so. It wouldn’t surprise me at all if a lot of the people we discuss here did vote for him and do continue to support him though. 

[Pecansforeveryone]

That's actually kind of a cute picture. I chuckled at it. My gosh, Is real is getting big!

[nickelodeon]

I think it's fair to make a distinction between fundamentalists and regular bigoted evangelicals. It does become a problem when people perceive a fundie girl's transition from fundamentalist to regular bigoted evangelical as an improvement or victory. Like, yeah, maybe she's got a better life now, but the rest of us got ovarian cysts and prison camps because of institutions she supports, so.

[Pecansforeveryone]

Just now, VelociRapture said:

I agree with most of this, but not all Fundies voted for him. We know Ben Seewald didn’t because he flat out said so. It wouldn’t surprise me at all if a lot of the people we discuss here did vote for him and do continue to support him though. 

Trump, even at the height of his fan frenzy, would not have been able to secure the nomination without winning over a chunk of the evangelical base. It's become to deeply entrenched in Republicanism. Barry Goldwater warned about it. Thats why Trump had to butcher Bible verses, rather than admitting , " Hey, I'm not a person of faith. However, I have picked a running mate who is." Ronald Regan wasn't great at public Christianese, either. Ah, fundagelicals. Picking a "godly" candidate is of utmost importance until it ....isn't. 

[Illmarryyoujana]

1 hour ago, nickelodeon said:

I think it's fair to make a distinction between fundamentalists and regular bigoted evangelicals. It does become a problem when people perceive a fundie girl's transition from fundamentalist to regular bigoted evangelical as an improvement or victory. Like, yeah, maybe she's got a better life now, but the rest of us got ovarian cysts and prison camps because of institutions she supports, so.

As someone who has spent much of her life in and around the evangelical southern baptist church, I’m always very confused on where the line is between them and fundementalists on this sight. I myself am a progressive Christian who jumps between the Episcopal and Baptist Church depending on what kind of service it is I want at the time.  My biggest pet peeve here is when people use the term “fundie light” because that blurs things even more, when what it seems they really mean conservative baptist. I would love for others to share with me what they feel the distinction is!!

[Meeka]

Can you imagine the infighting if the US laws were based on the bible? There are so groups of Christians with different rules and beliefs that they would be fighting over who's interpretation is correct to apply the applicable law. Is the "wine" in the bible actually wine or grape juice so would alcohol be allow or not?

[Lisafer]

@Illmarryyoujana I've been thinking very hard during this discussion about what constitutes a Fundamentalist Christian. I know everybody has different interpretations.

I would probably consider someone to be Fundie if they held to a literal interpretation of the Bible and viewed it as inerrant if that view was combined with homophobia, anti-choice beliefs, and patriarchy. 

If you hold the Bible to be inerrant but are pro-choice, support the LGBTQ population, and believe everyone should be equal: you're probably not a fundie.

If you don't believe in the Bible, but you're against gay marriage and want to take away women's rights...I guess you're just an asshole. 

Feel free to expand on my ideas, I don't know what I'm talking about!

[SassyPants]

45 minutes ago, Meeka said:

Can you imagine the infighting if the US laws were based on the bible? There are so groups of Christians with different rules and beliefs that they would be fighting over who's interpretation is correct to apply the applicable law. Is the "wine" in the bible actually wine or grape juice so would alcohol be allow or not?

Sadly, this is a major problem for Christianity (Yes, I know that Muslim and Jewish faiths have different sects too). So many different groups, splintering caused, at least in part, by infighting. So many people claiming that only they have it right. Ug

[karen77]

I just realized... we haven't talked about any of D'wreck's tweets lately... wtf is going on...!!!!

[VelociRapture]

I think the term “fundie lite” should just be gotten rid of at this point. It’s not helpful at explaining anything and just further muddies the conversation. Either someone is a fundamentalist or they aren’t. 

That said, as far as I know we’ve never had a set definition for what fundamentalism means because it can look differently based off the group or family being discussed. Maybe spelling out distinguishing features of each individual group would be helpful, but I don’t know. 

[HarleyQuinn]

18 minutes ago, karen77 said:

I just realized... we haven't talked about any of D'wreck's tweets lately... wtf is going on...!!!!

He and Ofwreck did pathetically link the Burgar courtship announcement on their own website for clicks instead of just congratulating them on IG like normal fundies. 

[Audrey2]

I also want to add to this discussion the idea of requiring prayer in school, and saying that the U.S. has fallen because "God was taken out of the schools". No, it doesn't matter that they wouldn't send their children to public school anyway, they are convince the all the ills of society is because there has not been prayer in school and God in school.

I identify as a Christian but am completely opposed to prayer in school. I do believe in a moment of silence so a student can choose to pray to any deity he or she would like or choose to think about the math test or what's for lunch. I also like to ask the hard-hitting prayer in school crowd, "Which version of The Lord's Prayer should be used? Christians can't even agree on debts, trespasses or sinners, and Protestants have at the end for that is the kingdom the power and the glory forever amen which the Catholics don't."

[Bad Wolf]

Episcopalians have forever and ever Amen.  Yes, which version should we use? Growing up in England, we had a hymn, prayer and bible reading at the beginning of the day. Also had a religious instruction class once a week.  Can't say much of it stuck, although I do attend an Episcopal church now. I like their philosophy, though I don't consider myself particularly religious.

[Daisy0322]

1 hour ago, VelociRapture said:

 

That said, as far as I know we’ve never had a set definition for what fundamentalism means because it can look differently based off the group or family being discussed. Maybe spelling out distinguishing features of each individual group would be helpful, but I don’t know. 

I'd love this but do we think everyone could come to an agreement.

 

i tend to think of fundy lite as more outwardly blending with society and they may bend the rules for health (or equally important reasons) but their morals are the same as fundies.

[Frumper]

I agree that religious fundamentalism itself is dangerous.  I guess I just don't see why it's any more dangerous when they try to blend in and "act like us" like Jill, Jinger and Jessa seem to be doing vs. continuing to wear their frumpers and preach hellfire like they used to.  Their votes aren't any more dangerous than my Trump-supporting uncle who isn't any version of fundie.  I think Jill Duggar is less dangerous then an open and proud funding like Lori Alexander even if their beliefs are the same.  By trying to blend in with mainstream Christians, Jill has to stop trying to sell her most extremist views to others, even though she almost certainly still holds them.  The exception being their pro-life stuff, I don't think Duggars will ever stop pushing that.