Jump to content
IGNORED

Mills family from youtube


llucie

Recommended Posts

So i decided to open a new thread for this family i have been following for a while on youtube, definitely fundies, but the nicer kind i guess (if such thing exists).
So the Mills family are christians that own a youtube channel with 44k subscribers where they talk about life as a big family (they have 9 kids) living in a very small house. They describe themselves as a (and i quote): "homey family- homeschool, home business, home birth, herbal home healthcare and home church". They have a computer store where the husband works with the help of the older/teenage sons.
The parents are Tom and Andrea, and the kids living at home are oldest to youngest: Thomas Andrew, Asher Lee, Judah Layne, Justus Benjamin, Eden Sophire, Solomon Andros, Sophia Faith, Claudia Lynn and Hannah Ophelia. The oldest is 16 and the last baby was born just 2 weeks ago, and they are all 2 years apart from each other.
They are not quiverfull, the father has a video talking about why they have so many children: 

Spoiler

 

 

There he says they are not against birth control and in fact do use it, but they do seem to want a big family for biblical reasons and he even mentions the famous "sons are arrows in a quiver" quote. He says every kid was a counscious decision and they choose to space all of them 2 years apart.
There is also an older daughter of the father with another woman, but she doesnt live with them.
 

I would say they seem better parents than most of the fundies we follow, they seem to love the kids and are very involved with them, and in the homeschooling department they have videos about the curriculum and the kids seem to be getting a decent education. She is also very good at budgeting, so they get enought to eat (she does videos focused on the food shopping, and how she does it).
Now the weird part, since the house is so small and they dont have space to store clothes for everybody if they wore normal clothes, they instead invented a colour sistem that consists that basically everyone has a t-shirt in a rainbow colour and everyone wears theirs the same day, so it goes like monday everyone in red, tuesday blue, wednesday brown, and so on and so on. They do have normal jeans, even the girls, but only one pair, they only get a new one when the olders one are broken or small. Take into acount that some of the older boys are already teenagers, so this seems extremely weird, doesnt allow any individuality and i doubt it helps them in their social life.
In this videos they explain why they always wear matching clothes and the colour system:

Spoiler

 

The house is super-tiny, so they only have 2 bedrooms for all the kids, that are divided in boys and girls of course, the 5 boys are in bunk beds in the biggest room. Here is the video about it (its the most popular in the channel, and they received a lot of hate for it, because of how cramped it looks) she even mentions that they have space there for a 6 boy if the lord ever blesses them with one! I have to admit that they showed a lot of creativity making the most of the space, but it still makes me claustrophobic to look at, it reminds me of those japanese capsule hotels. Here you can have a look at the bedroom:
 

Spoiler

 

She is into natural medicine, but she started having her kids at the hospital, and since then seems to have gotten more radical with the years. The first 4 were hospital births, then for the 5 and 6 they decided to homebirth but at least had a midwife present. Then for the last ones they went for birthing them at home unassisted(against the recomendations of the midwife), baby 7 and 9 were born this way whithout problem, but with 8 she was having high blood pressure and it ended in a hospital birth. But the way she talks about it, she makes it seem like a lot of doctors and a midwife in diferent clinics just conspired against her so she could not have her desired home birth, and the fact that maybe they saved her life never crosses her mind. Here she has a video talking about it, and how the fear-mongering doctors convinced her husband that an unassisted birth was a bad idea, and how terrible having an hospital birth is:
 

Spoiler

 

They homechurch, they grew up southern baptist, but they started to have disagreements with the doctrine. She talks about it here:
 

Spoiler

 

Now i will let you discover the rest in their videos, there is a lot of material to snark about. For example they have an audio system in all the house so they can listen to a bible audiobook at all times! Yes, even at night! To be honest i am impressed that they havent become crazy yet having to endure that.
 

Spoiler

 

 

Edited by llucie
.
  • Upvote 4
  • WTF 2
  • Thank You 8
Link to comment
Share on other sites

They aren't nearly as bad as most fundies, but their educational choices are why I do not like them. Dad goes on and on about homeschooling like Andrea's teaching is the hottest shit of all time and public school kids are getting the worst education EVAR, but she literally uses ACE (And we all know how good that "curriculum" is... NOT!). An average school day consists of Andrea throwing workbooks and binders at the kids. I've never seen her actually teach in any of her videos. She also has a whole discussion on why college sucks and she dropped out because it was useless. Tom seems more receptive to the idea of higher education, but is totally clueless on just how educationally neglected his kids are. His world is going to come crashing down when the oldest takes the SAT and begins applying to schools, much less taking on the coursework. It's like a car crash I can't look away from. Eesh.

  • Upvote 10
Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, 16strong said:

They aren't nearly as bad as most fundies, but their educational choices are why I do not like them. Dad goes on and on about homeschooling like Andrea's teaching is the hottest shit of all time and public school kids are getting the worst education EVAR, but she literally uses ACE (And we all know how good that "curriculum" is... NOT!). An average school day consists of Andrea throwing workbooks and binders at the kids. I've never seen her actually teach in any of her videos. She also has a whole discussion on why college sucks and she dropped out because it was useless. Tom seems more receptive to the idea of higher education, but is totally clueless on just how educationally neglected his kids are. His world is going to come crashing down when the oldest takes the SAT and begins applying to schools, much less taking on the coursework. It's like a car crash I can't look away from. Eesh.

They are better in some ways and worst in others, for example they dont do the sister mom thing, although they never had a chance anyway because they only have older boys, and all the girls are younger, so maybe its not by choice. I dont know much about the curriculum TBH, but at least they seem to have a library and read real books, most fundies dont do that so despite how bad the curriculum is they still have the chance to learn extra stuff by reading it in books. They also allow their kids technology, they use computers and videogames.

 

But in other aspects i think they are worst that other fundies, they live in a smaller house than most, they are allowed a lot less personal space, and they dont have almost any individuality, they all have to wear the same clothes as the rest of the family everyday...most of the fundies only do the matchy thing on special occasions.

And the bible on the speakers 24/7 stills seems like a torture or brainwashing device to me.

Edited by llucie
.
  • Upvote 15
  • I Agree 3
  • Love 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

22 minutes ago, llucie said:

But in other aspects i think they are worst that other fundies, they live in a smaller house than most, they are allowed a lot less personal space, and they dont have almost any individuality, they all have to wear the same clothes as the rest of the family everyday...most of the fundies only do the matchy thing on special occasion

I think that they actually show the reality of most fundie life. The Bates and Duggars both lived in tiny cramped houses before reality television helped them expand. The Duggars did the whole matching thing when they went out in public. The Bates did a weird thing where the kids had to walk in a line with their hands on each other's shoulders. None of these families encouraged any sort of individuality until they got on television. 

ACE is a shit curriculum. It is maybe a tiny step above Wisdom Books, but I'm not even sure about that. Here is a blog that show what some of it looks like and how effective it is in educating children. 

ttps://faithlessfeminist.com/blog-posts/exposing-accelerated-christian-education

Quote

Every independent academic study that has ever been conducted on ACE has concluded that it provides an inadequate or unacceptable education. And that’s not based on an anti-religious position. The Lutheran Church (Missouri Synod) conducted an investigation and came to the same conclusion. The Canadian province of British Columbia commissioned an evaluation of ACE in 1992, and they employed a very conservative Christian, James W. Beeke, to do it. He concluded that the curriculum was inadequate on academic grounds

Quote

Sometimes the girl characters ask questions, but it’s only ever boys who demonstrate that they already have scientific knowledge. In the cartoons that accompany the text, women are often shown doing domestic chores, while men never are. There’s a constant implied message that science is really for boys, while cooking and cleaning are really for women.

 

  • Upvote 17
  • WTF 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

How old is Andrea? I’m hoping menopause is soon since she seems to think unassisted homebirths are a great choice....

  • Upvote 2
  • I Agree 5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks @llucie.  That was an excellent overview.  The endless audio loop of the Bible sounded familiar and the Millses were discussed in Maxhell at one point.  It is much better to give them their own thread in QoS.  They deserve it.  And, dear Rufus, they give us a lot of material - even if they are long-winded! 

I think I'd go insane if I had to listen to anything 24/7, but definitely the Bible.  It sounds like torture, pure and simple.  I'd also think that you would have to learn to tune out the noise to survive - so what is the point of their audio system.

It really sounds as though she is taking serious risks as well as getting more radical with the unassisted births and home births.   

10 hours ago, llucie said:

They are not quiverfull, the father has a video talking about why they have so many children: 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

There he says they are not against birth control and in fact do use it, but they do seem to want a big family for biblical reasons and he even mentions the famous "sons are arrows in a quiver" quote. He says every kid was a counscious decision and they choose to space all of them 2 years apart.

Do any of these people ever admit to being Quiverfull?  The Millses are breeding for world dominion like all the rest - they just cherry-picked and allow some kind of birth control.  That makes them very naughty Quiverfull not unQuiverfull! :laughing-jumpingpurple:

They are reminding me of the Fighting (for together) Crawfords.  TMI, many videos, self satisfaction and all.

Both families are not standard Fundie because they are special snowflakes making up their own Christian religion, but scratch the surface and the dysfunction is there.

 

  • Upvote 15
  • I Agree 2
  • Love 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

How old is Andrea? I’m hoping menopause is soon since she seems to think unassisted homebirths are a great choice....

I think she is 39 almost 40, so its dificult to say, because fertility at that age varies a lot from person to person. They still could have 1 or even 2 kids, or none at all, but lets hope its the second. They have been very lucky so far with the birthing.

  • Upvote 1
  • I Agree 2
  • Thank You 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think it is funny that the parents, thinking it makes them appear more holy to listen to the bible 24/7 , are instead teaching their children to tune out the endless noise.

I live quite close to a railroad crossing and rarely hear the whistles because they happen so often. People who live near an airport learn to tune out the noise of planes.

Having said that I wonder if they all guiltily enjoy power failures so they get some quiet time.

  • Upvote 11
  • Haha 9
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awe, my pet fundies.  I subscribe to their channel, which Andrea does without ads and therefore makes no profit from.  I love her video's.  I think I've watched every video over the past year or two.  She has a very calming voice and manner, IMO.  I enjoy listening to her and watching the videos.  I think they are a loving family.  I don't know about ACE, it probably is lacking.  But at least the kids are allowed to read any kind of books they wish, they even play Magic and Pokémon and videogames.  The kids really seem to love each other and have great personalities.  I live in a house of similar size.  Would I want 9 kids in it instead of my 1, heck no!  I think they eat far too much candy, this coming from a sugar-a-holic.  But I admire that they live life the way they want to live it.  The girls can and do wear pants/shorts, Andrea is skirts only because she doesn't like how pants fit her after all of the kids.  If a child doesn't want to wear the "color of the day" shirt, they don't have to.  They have so many people sending them gifts lately, the wardrobes have changed a lot.  They accept others and don't try to force their ways on others.  Tom (the dad) even was married and had a daughter at a young age.  They divorced and the daughter was adopted by Tom's aunt and uncle who couldn't have kids.  She is now an early 20's wack-a-doodle who is exploring being Muslim according to her FB page.  She isn't on the Vlog much but they still include her in their holidays and things as much as she wants to be. 

Regarding the 24/7 Bible.... I believe in the comments of one of her recent videos someone asked about not hearing it as much lately, she replied that it is turned off in the main living area lately, still on in bedrooms/bathroom/libray-game room.

  • Upvote 1
  • Love 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, fundiefollower said:

I don't know about ACE, it probably is lacking. 

It isn't just lacking, it is constantly teaching sexist propaganda and bullshit science. It implies that girls can't really understand science and that the only place for women is cooking, cleaning, having babies and obeying the husband. It also teaches that the Loch Ness monster is real and, while other fundie Christian curriculums have dropped this, ACE still teaches that dragon stories show dinosaurs were roaming about with humans for centuries after the flood. In one of her videos you can see her checking the workbooks and it is about how godly General Lee was and how the South was glad to have him. This makes me think their history is fairly white washed and racists too.  

I notice in the videos that she says the children can choose not to dress in the same color, that is exactly what the Bates and Duggars have said. It is just a total coincidence that they all choose exactly what the parents want. :pb_rollseyes: I didn't believe it with the Duggars and don't believe it hear. She also says that I child feels out of sync with the family if they end up not wearing the same color, which makes it pretty obvious there is a lot of pressure to conform. 

1 hour ago, Palimpsest said:

Do any of these people ever admit to being Quiverfull? 

None of them do. I think both Kelly and Michelle claimed to have never even heard the term. These folks are quiverfull. 

  • Upvote 20
Link to comment
Share on other sites

So they live in a small town, don't want to travel and therefore they homechurch?  Am I reading that wrong? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Soulhuntress said:

So they live in a small town, don't want to travel and therefore they homechurch?  Am I reading that wrong? 

Well not just that, they also didnt find any church that they agreed 100% on doctrine with, they visited a few and they seemed too superficial to them. There was one that they agreed on a lot of things (not all) that its the one some relatives also attend, but its too far away for them, so they have been doing homechurch for the last 10 years.

  • Upvote 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I’m only part way through the first video and my blood is already boiling! We shouldn’t listen to scientist’s data since we didn’t compile it ourselves?! He even says DATA which implies he doesn’t believe scientists just want us to take their word for everything. You need to parse that data and should always critically evaluate studies and reports, but using data is bad...?! I can’t. 

  • Upvote 13
  • Haha 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Aaaaah, the Mills family. Back when they were first talked about over in the Maxhell subforum I went to their channel and I've been actually secretly watching their every upload ever since. I think I get it now what's meant by the term pet fundie. In the interests of being subjective, though, maybe I can give some details that some people might not know and also some of my own opinions because i'm an expert apparently I actually do find this family interesting in a way I don't any other fundie family. 

I'll not lie, I find Tom to be a bit (a lot) of an egotistical ass. I don't think he's necessarily controlling in the same worrying ways that we observe in people like PP and Lori Alexander, for example, but I think he has his way he wants things to be and that that's the way it is going to be, if you get me? That Andrea feels it necessary to set aside (like, specifically budget) 50 dollars for him every month so he can have some play money without feeling like he's spending his family 'out of house and home' reeks of emotional manipulation on his part. 

Andrea's a tough one. I like some of the philosophies behind her parenting. Her method of disciplining by way of natural consequence rather than spanking or other forms of corporal punishment actually seems pretty effective, and honestly I think that's something I'd like to take with me if I ever become a parent (I'm not saying that they don't/ have never used corporal punishment, but I've never actually witnessed it, so I could be totally wrong). But then, in much the same way as Zsu totally goes from one extreme to another, I find her talk about, say, vaccinations and medical doctors incredibly offputting. There's nothing worse than an intelligent (which I wholeheartedly believe Andrea is, despite having had much the same education as she provides for her children, by merit of the way she reads a lot, researches a lot, and genuinely strives to understand), well-meaning person coming to decisions that are bad for themselves, their family, and the society around them because they've chosen to believe in quack doctors or inadequate sources. Okay, there are things that are worse, but that's a pet peeve of mine. 

I understand why she chose to wholeheartedly pursue unassisted birth and pregnancy with Hannah, even if I personally thought it was dangerous, and actually worried me a bit despite having absolutely nothing to do with it. In fact, I understand her rationalisations behind a lot of things she chooses to do, despite the ways in which I disagree. Claudia's birth story was actually pretty harrowing to hear, and though the hospital is probably the best, most safe place for a mother of many to birth a child, the way she was manhandled by doctors, manipulated by her nurse, and even had her own husband not advocate for her in the way that she wanted must have really confirmed for her that the hospital is a bad place for birthing (I would say, for this one, that - whilst we only have her version of events- whether or not all these things happened in the way she experienced them doesn't negate the fact that Claudia's birth was clearly a traumatic experience for her that impacted her bonding, marriage, and mental health for a while after). In a way, I'm glad that she had her unassisted homebirth be the way she wanted it to but then had to go to the hospital for herself. I hope that experience (which she said was okay) will start to empower her to seek help/advice from medical professionals when necessary, but it's not a lot of hope. At the very least, I think it's getting less and less likely that they'll have many more children, if any. Andrea would have all she could, but I think that Tom, despite what he says, is less keen.

Oh, I could go on for days. From what I've observed in their videos, and in the comment interactions Andrea has with her commenters (I've never actually engaged with her directly, so please do feel free to take this with a massive three handfuls of salt), that theirs is a family who, whilst it's unlikely that you'd ever see them at a Pride parade, at the very least don't preach against homosexuality, and wouldn't disown a child of theirs if they came out as gay. Low bar, I know, but still. They also, judging from Tom's past (which is actually quite sad, I think his ex-wife did kinda do him dirty, but then we only have his side of the story told through Andrea, so who really knows what's going on there?), and the vast array of family they have, realise and accept that divorce can be a part of life and that people remain good, Christian people in spite of it. Again, low bar. 

Once in a video Andrea detailed what all the kids wanted to be when they grew up. The boys all got descriptive rundowns of why they'd be perfect for a job they were interested in, but when it came to the girls Andrea glossed over it and said that they all wanted to be wives and mothers. Never mind the fact that I'm pretty sure that Claudia wants only to be a cat (honestly it's very cute), and Eden's shown a lot of interest in cooking and sewing. I think Andrea projects a lot onto her daughters whilst also very obviously preferring her sons. Of course, there's nothing wrong with wanting to be a wife and a mother, but I think that any hint that they might want something other than that would be stamped out pretty quickly. I think Eden gets a very raw deal in that house, which is a shame, because she seems curious and motivated. It just kinda seems like she's ignored unless she's using her easy bake oven, practising sewing, or indulging in some other hobby Andrea also likes. Tom, I think, has a great affection for his daughters, but I get the feeling that Eden's expected to not be as reliant upon those affections as her younger sisters are. If she weren't so close with the youngest of her older brothers I'd worry about how alone she might feel. Again, this is just speculation, I could be way, way off (but tbh I've felt that way since I first started watching and nothing's changed my mind since). 

As a whole, they seem to laugh at the idea that any of the kids might want to pursue college or higher education, whilst also insisting that they'd be perfectly able to if they did. I don't actually see anything wrong with Andrea's belief that not everyone is meant to be a big superstar knowledgeable legend, but the fact that they're so comfortable with  (below) average that they seem to shun any notions of excellence in their children makes me sad. Maybe some of them want to be superbrains and have science careers, but I doubt it's a path they'd be allowed to explore. 

20 hours ago, llucie said:

<snip> instead invented a colour sistem that consists that basically everyone has a t-shirt in a rainbow colour and everyone wears theirs the same day, so it goes like monday everyone in red, tuesday blue, wednesday brown, and so on and so on. They do have normal jeans, even the girls, but only one pair, they only get a new one when the olders one are broken or small. Take into acount that some of the older boys are already teenagers, so this seems extremely weird, doesnt allow any individuality and i doubt it helps them in their social life.

This isn't actually the reason they do this, but I agree with you that the matching clothes are strange. It was actually a result of Andrea's scrapbooking days where she'd match the younger boys, then want to match with them, and then Tom wanted to match. It's continued as the years go on. It's not a 'forced' thing, and you can actually see with the girls and younger boys at least that they often choose to wear clothes they've gotten from relatives or purchased with their own money. I think they just choose to match most days because that's what they know. The trousers thing is true, but they get two pairs each, and extra shorts in the summer, I believe. It does make sense, I think, with their housing situation, to do it that way; children don't need a lot of clothes and a lot of choice. idk there's plenty to snark on this family for, but their matching clothes are very low down on my list. I think that @formergothardite is right in that there must be a lot of pressure to conform. I just don't get the vibe, though, that it's a malevolent kind of pressure, just a natural urge to want to fit in. I certainly think their colours theme with the opportunity to accessorise however they want affords the Mills children with a lot more individuality than did my 12 years of school uniform in Britain, but we might just disagree there, and that's cool and fine :D 

Uh... let's see other things I might be able to say. They don't use the KJV, though they have nothing against it. I don't remember why.

I used to be very concerned about the way they seemed to ignore their dog and let the youngest boy, Solomon, be quite rough with him, but after a break in videos where Knuckles wasn't seen, his skin seems to be better, they seem to be a lot more involved with him, and there's no rough treatment anymore. Perhaps that's a me thing; I'm super sensitive to the mistreatment of animals, maybe it was just a couple of isolated incidents that happened to be caught on camera. They also lost their rabbit this year (though eventually he was found), Andrea and Tom didn't really seem to care that much, but the kids appeared very sad about it. But, hey, fundies don't have a great track record with appreciating animal life, and anyone I've noticed bringing up this stuff in the comments either gets ignored or fobbed off with reassurances that they do love the animals. 

As is the case with most of the families we discuss here, I have a fondness for the daughters. I don't know what it is, but they all just seem so bright and curious and eager to interact with the world in ways that aren't really seen in the boys (other than Justus, I'd argue). But then, that's probably because Andrea also uses the Buddy system, albeit a little differently because her eldest were boys, and the older boys have far more in the way of responsibility than most their age. 

I... have so much I could talk about when it comes to this family. Their housing situation (which, whilst totally being none of my business, drives me completely nuts, especially the lack of privacy for the girls),  their curriculum (I don't know much about ACE, but I don't like the idea self-taught education for children, though I'm sure some do fine. In Andrea's case it seems like it's both a continuation of her childhood, and a total cop out for the responsibility she has to her kids), their parenting (which, honestly, I'm not all that against except for a few very key issues), the very strange standards of modesty they have for their girls, honestly the list goes on and on but I will stop here. 

idk, y'know? I like them. They don't seem to believe and espouse horrible beliefs about people of colour, lgbt+ people, and people of other religions. They seem like giving, nice people. But on the other hand they stifle their children, take unnecessary medical risks with Andrea and the children, and I get a weird vibe from Tom (not abusive or anything like that, just the same kind of vibe I get when I think about my gaslighting, manipulative fuck of an ex-boyfriend, you feel me?)  Either way, I'm glad for the perspectives offered here, they've dragged me back down to Earth a little.

I'm actually really grateful you started this topic, @llucie, I've been sort of watching this family's content for a while now and I'd started to forget why I initially found them so strange and perhaps even not as good as they appear to be. Also perhaps I've become too invested in them. I think I'll unsubscribe and cut down my viewing, actually, it's a little worrying to me that I know this amount of stuff/ have such detailed opinions about a family that's not my own off the top of my head. 

(super sorry for very long post and any inaccuracies in the way I've remembered things, but I have tried to be as accurate as possible and only have talked about the things I'm absolutely sure of/mostly convinced about) Oh, also, if I'm wrong about anything please feel free to correct me, I'm a little worried that I might have let my unintentional affection for the children of the family to cloud some things I should have been able to observe.

 

 

 

 

  • Upvote 8
  • Thank You 5
  • Love 6
Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, Escadora said:

 I think that @formergothardite is right in that there must be a lot of pressure to conform. I just don't get the vibe, though, that it's a malevolent kind of pressure, just a natural urge to want to fit in.

I get the impression that it is a lot like the Arndt household. The Arndt parents seemed very much into gentle parenting, yet you can tell that there is a lot of pressure to conform the parents view as the ideal "look" for the family. I think that that kind of super loving manipulation can make it harder to break away and be independent. 

11 hours ago, Escadora said:

They don't seem to believe and espouse horrible beliefs about people of colour, lgbt+ people, and people of other religions.

I haven't watched tons of their videos or read the comments, but from what I've seen they don't look like people who would vote liberal. Maybe they do, but with using this weird curriculum that appears to present a racist, white washed version of history(I've read some reviews that says their history is borderline white nationalism) and that is very sexist, patriarchal and fundie, I just can't see them actually being all for gay marriage and equality. I think it is probably more likely that they are like the Bates and try to keep that part of their lives quiet. 

  • Upvote 10
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I knew ACE was bad, but I didn't realize how bad it was. Knowing that the Mills family uses this really makes me question how open minded and nice they really are. A white supremacist homeschooling group promote ACE, which tells you a hell of a lot about the curriculum. ACE also teaches anti-gay propaganda in their science books. This is a horrifying homeschool curriculum, not only are kids just left to teach themselves how to fill in blanks, what they are learning is just awful. 

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/leavingfundamentalism/2017/10/11/christian-publisher-replaces-racist-textbooks-new-racist-textbooks/

Quote

 

The period covered is the height of the civil rights era, so you’d think we’d learn about that. So what do we get?

Rosa Parks? Not mentioned. Malcolm X? Nope. James Brown? HAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

But not only are the giants of civil rights missing; so are the evils of racism. In both this book and the one before it, which covers 1933-1945, there is no mention of the KKK, Jim Crow, or lynchings. The word ‘racism’ never appears. As far as the book is concerned, it never happened

 

For Martin Luther King Jr. they mostly focus on how he died and how black people rioted afterwards. These are the words of MLK that they present.

Quote

James,” he called to one of the men on the ground, “make sure you play ‘Precious Lord, Take My Hand.'”
“I will,” nodded the musician.
“Play it real pretty,” said Dr. King, “for me.”

 

  • Upvote 2
  • WTF 10
  • Thank You 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

@formergothardite I think you've hit the nail on the head. I haven't looked into ACE so I had no idea it was that bad. It's really a shame, and it makes a lot of sense. I had a lot of hope that they were actually just uber-Christian, conservative but not totally hateful, but I think you're right in that Andrea's just managed to cultivate a very welcoming, calming atmosphere that plays up their good points and doesn't show the bad so much. She's admitted several times that she doesn't film the kids when they're having tantrums or really 'bad' days, which is totally her right but not very truthful, and that she prefers to keep it light. 

So, I guess... more of the same lipstick on a pig. 

I wish this was enough to stop me from watching the content and investing my time altogether, but honestly probably not. It's just confirmation of things I've suspected but chose to ignore. I never really got into the Duggar shows or the Bates show or anything like that, but I guess I can see now how people can get so caught up in the images presented that they forget the real underlying issues. I'll try to be more aware of why and how much I'm watching in the future.

  • Upvote 7
Link to comment
Share on other sites

23 hours ago, formergothardite said:

It isn't just lacking, it is constantly teaching sexist propaganda and bullshit science. It implies that girls can't really understand science and that the only place for women is cooking, cleaning, having babies and obeying the husband. It also teaches that the Loch Ness monster is real and, while other fundie Christian curriculums have dropped this, ACE still teaches that dragon stories show dinosaurs were roaming about with humans for centuries after the flood. In one of her videos you can see her checking the workbooks and it is about how godly General Lee was and how the South was glad to have him. This makes me think their history is fairly white washed and racists too.  

I notice in the videos that she says the children can choose not to dress in the same color, that is exactly what the Bates and Duggars have said. It is just a total coincidence that they all choose exactly what the parents want. :pb_rollseyes: I didn't believe it with the Duggars and don't believe it hear. She also says that I child feels out of sync with the family if they end up not wearing the same color, which makes it pretty obvious there is a lot of pressure to conform. 

None of them do. I think both Kelly and Michelle claimed to have never even heard the term. These folks are quiverfull. 

I know.  It was rather a rhetorical question.  I don't think I've seen anyone ever admit to being Quiverfull - they just love children.  :D

21 hours ago, llucie said:

Well not just that, they also didnt find any church that they agreed 100% on doctrine with, they visited a few and they seemed too superficial to them. There was one that they agreed on a lot of things (not all) that its the one some relatives also attend, but its too far away for them, so they have been doing homechurch for the last 10 years.

Ah but Tom's computer business means that they get to know a lot of pastors so they are very well informed.

I've only looked at a few of the videos so far.  Mainly the ones on how they cram a family of 10 into that small house (800 sq. ft. plus a converted basement = 1,600 sq. ft).  So a few thoughts just on the house.

Pro:

  • Yes, it is organised
  • I don't see any obvious hazards in case of fire
  • All the bedrooms have windows
  • At least they have one bathroom and it has working plumbing
  • The kitchen looks clean and organised
  • I agree that not every child needs their own room
  • I agree that not every child needs a whole lot of toys
  • Not everyone needs a lot of clothes
  • Blankets and bedding seem to be washed regularly
  • At least the boys can decorate and personalize their own bunk bed space
  • At least the boys have some space for a few individual possessions in their bunk beds.

Cons:

  • It looks like a hoarder's house
  • It is a hoarder's house because
  • The kids are part of the hoard
  • The "library" is a mini dungeon
  • Mom's books take up more space than the kids' books
  • "Half a king-size" mattress is a twin - those bunk bed mattresses look shorter than twins
  • Where do the kids play - there's no free floor space anywhere
  • The kids have to ask for the toys on high shelves - does she get them down?
  • Her "midwifery" supplies are toys for the girls?
  • Mom's craft supplies and herbs take up much more space than the toys
  • The "pantry" is full of junk food
  • The vodka (for tinctures) and herbs (some herbal remedies can be dangerous) in the pantry are within reach of tiny children
  • Mom's make-up takes up more space in the bathroom than cleaning supplies (shades of JillR)
  • The supplies in the bathroom over the tub must get damp and mildewed.
  • Towels are dried in the girls' bedroom - dampness again

And Holy Claustrophobia, Batman! 

It reminds me of Emily of <$1000 with all the kids beds crammed into a closet, mildew and mold potential all over the place, and so much stuff hoarded that it must be really hard to clean.   The boys' room is a palace compared to the girls' room but I hope the pocket doors don't jam.  Perhaps the girls' room is safer with just a curtain over the door.

  • Upvote 9
  • Thank You 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

38 minutes ago, Escadora said:

but I think you're right in that Andrea's just managed to cultivate a very welcoming, calming atmosphere that plays up their good points and doesn't show the bad so much

She does have a super calming voice. On the surface she does present the family as being less extreme, but with the heavy use of ACE I wonder if they are actually more extreme in some areas than other fundies. 

36 minutes ago, Palimpsest said:

those bunk bed mattresses look shorter than twins

That was my initial thought is that there is no way those mattresses are as long as regular twins. With her standing next to them they looked shorter and then there were shelves built in that would make it even shorter. She did remind me of Emily. 

37 minutes ago, Palimpsest said:

Her "midwifery" supplies are toys for the girls?

I missed this part but what the fuck?! 

Another thing I caught watching one of the homeschool videos was that one of the little boys was left alone to read his books and understand the instructions, but it was clear he wasn't at that point in his reading. He needed someone to read the instructions for him. It is also so loud in there. The TV was blaring some sort of ABC song, a baby was crying, the Bible was being read and some poor child was attempting to take a spelling test. No wonder he thought his mom said Adam instead of atom. 

  • Upvote 3
  • Sad 3
  • I Agree 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 5/22/2018 at 7:03 AM, Botkinetti said:

I think it is funny that the parents, thinking it makes them appear more holy to listen to the bible 24/7 , are instead teaching their children to tune out the endless noise.

I live quite close to a railroad crossing and rarely hear the whistles because they happen so often. People who live near an airport learn to tune out the noise of planes.

Having said that I wonder if they all guiltily enjoy power failures so they get some quiet time.

Hey kids!  How can we make the Bible seem like white noise?  Play it all the damn time!  Way to treat the Bible as something special.

We had a grandfather clock growing up (I still have it).  I can be sitting ten feet away from it and never even notice it is chiming the hour.  I hope the Mills' kids are able to tune out the bible most of the time.

  • Upvote 8
  • I Agree 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On ‎5‎/‎22‎/‎2018 at 10:03 AM, Botkinetti said:

I think it is funny that the parents, thinking it makes them appear more holy to listen to the bible 24/7 , are instead teaching their children to tune out the endless noise.

I live quite close to a railroad crossing and rarely hear the whistles because they happen so often. People who live near an airport learn to tune out the noise of planes.

Having said that I wonder if they all guiltily enjoy power failures so they get some quiet time.

I grew up next to a fire house, & can sleep through/sometimes ignore when the siren goes off.

I've never heard of this family until reading this thread; I'll have to look up their videos now.

2 hours ago, EmmieJ said:

Hey kids!  How can we make the Bible seem like white noise?  Play it all the damn time!  Way to treat the Bible as something special.

We had a grandfather clock growing up (I still have it).  I can be sitting ten feet away from it and never even notice it is chiming the hour.  I hope the Mills' kids are able to tune out the bible most of the time.

Couldn't but help to comment/highjack the thread for a quick minute; currently listening to David Bowie, & those words reminded me of his Black Tie, White Noise cd (which is quite good, by the way). ;) 

:: you may now return to your regularly scheduled thread ::

  • Upvote 6
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Escadora said:

@formergothardite I think you've hit the nail on the head. I haven't looked into ACE so I had no idea it was that bad. It's really a shame, and it makes a lot of sense. I had a lot of hope that they were actually just uber-Christian, conservative but not totally hateful, but I think you're right in that Andrea's just managed to cultivate a very welcoming, calming atmosphere that plays up their good points and doesn't show the bad so much. She's admitted several times that she doesn't film the kids when they're having tantrums or really 'bad' days, which is totally her right but not very truthful, and that she prefers to keep it light. 

So, I guess... more of the same lipstick on a pig. 

I wish this was enough to stop me from watching the content and investing my time altogether, but honestly probably not. It's just confirmation of things I've suspected but chose to ignore. I never really got into the Duggar shows or the Bates show or anything like that, but I guess I can see now how people can get so caught up in the images presented that they forget the real underlying issues. I'll try to be more aware of why and how much I'm watching in the future.

I totally undestand you, i used to have a "pet fundie", and it was a hard realization the day i had to admit that they were just as bad as the rest of them. Now i still enjoy following some families (not that one because they not longer blog, which TBH im thankful for) but i keep always in mind that its just for fun, and not to get too invested in them. 

Edited by llucie
.
  • Upvote 7
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, llucie said:

I totally undestand you, i used to have a "pet fundie", and it was a hard realization the day i had to admit that they were just as bad as the rest of them. Now i still enjoy following some families (not that one because they not longer blog, which TBH im thankful for) but i keep always in mind that its just for fun, and not to get too invested in them. 

 

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have been following Andrea on YouTube for over a year now. I always knew that there were things that I would never agree with. I have told her so, but I still enjoy watching them. I would go nuts if I had to be colour co-ordinated every day. And sometimes I think they would all be better off if they went to school outside the home. And unassisted birth scares me to death! I know they are probably anti-vaxxers that voted for Trump but I just can't look away!

  • Upvote 3
  • Love 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

ACE is also cheaper than a lot of curriculum. Or it was when I was in school. Many of my fundie cousins were in ACE schools, and when my family started homeschooling it's what my mom used for several years because she could order along with the school order. We only used ACE for 3-4 years then switched to better. 

My parents are fundie, but they are in no way racist. 

  • Upvote 4
  • Love 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now



×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.