Royal Wedding Part 2

[Crystal Wisdom]

They will be Lord/Lady Sussex unless the Queen issues a Letters Patent like she did for the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge's children. Without this, only the eldest son (regardless of birth order) would have been a Prince and the others would be Lord/Lady.

If the Queen does not issue LPs, then they become Prince/Princess when the Queen dies because they are the children of the monarch's son. Princess Anne's children (Peter Phillips and Zara Tindall) were not entitled to the HRH status because they were children of the monarch's daughter. The Queen did offer titles but Princess Anne and Captain Phillips declined them. Therefore, Prince George and Prince Louis' children will be HRH but Princess Charlotte's will be Lord/Lady. Apparently this is because (historically) the daughter of a monarch would marry into another royal family and therefore the children would have titles that way. 

So yeah, Lord/Lady until the Queen passes unless she issues LPs.

[Mama Mia]

7 hours ago, Crystal Wisdom said:

They will be Lord/Lady Sussex unless the Queen issues a Letters Patent like she did for the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge's children. Without this, only the eldest son (regardless of birth order) would have been a Prince and the others would be Lord/Lady.

If the Queen does not issue LPs, then they become Prince/Princess when the Queen dies because they are the children of the monarch's son. Princess Anne's children (Peter Phillips and Zara Tindall) were not entitled to the HRH status because they were children of the monarch's daughter. The Queen did offer titles but Princess Anne and Captain Phillips declined them. Therefore, Prince George and Prince Louis' children will be HRH but Princess Charlotte's will be Lord/Lady. Apparently this is because (historically) the daughter of a monarch would marry into another royal family and therefore the children would have titles that way. 

So yeah, Lord/Lady until the Queen passes unless she issues LPs.

Would any / all of the sex based title rules change with this current generation, since they were born post the secession order change giving preference to birth order regardless of gender?

 

 

[Crystal Wisdom]

13 hours ago, Mama Mia said:

Would any / all of the sex based title rules change with this current generation, since they were born post the secession order change giving preference to birth order regardless of gender?

 

 

I don't think so because it is only the Succession to the Crown (2013) that disregards gender. All recent articles that I've read still suggest that the Sussex title would pass over any daughters and be given to the eldest son. Maybe a change will happen in the near future.

[viii]

On 6/9/2018 at 10:16 AM, Crystal Wisdom said:

They will be Lord/Lady Sussex unless the Queen issues a Letters Patent like she did for the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge's children. Without this, only the eldest son (regardless of birth order) would have been a Prince and the others would be Lord/Lady.

If the Queen does not issue LPs, then they become Prince/Princess when the Queen dies because they are the children of the monarch's son. Princess Anne's children (Peter Phillips and Zara Tindall) were not entitled to the HRH status because they were children of the monarch's daughter. The Queen did offer titles but Princess Anne and Captain Phillips declined them. Therefore, Prince George and Prince Louis' children will be HRH but Princess Charlotte's will be Lord/Lady. Apparently this is because (historically) the daughter of a monarch would marry into another royal family and therefore the children would have titles that way. 

So yeah, Lord/Lady until the Queen passes unless she issues LPs.

So technically it should have been Prince George, Lady Charlotte, and Lord Louis, because only George is directly in line to inherit? 

Charlotte's children should be HRH too now because of the changed law, no? She's in the line of succession and won't be passed over for Louis, so her children should have the same titles as her brothers' children would. 

[Crystal Wisdom]

32 minutes ago, viii said:

So technically it should have been Prince George, Lady Charlotte, and Lord Louis, because only George is directly in line to inherit? 

Charlotte's children should be HRH too now because of the changed law, no? She's in the line of succession and won't be passed over for Louis, so her children should have the same titles as her brothers' children would. 

Yes, exactly. However, when the Queen dies they would all be Prince/Princess anyway.

I don't think so because the Letters Patent only changed the line of succession but doesn't change how titles are passed down. I think it's silly but, as far as I'm aware, her children won't be HRH. A future change in the law could change this.

https://www.vogue.com.au/culture/features/the-royal-rulebook-why-princess-charlottes-children-wont-be-princes-or-princesses/news-story/8320eab69ab26609a92e116a13a0ac16

(Sorry if I should link to other sites differently, I'm still new to posting here!)

[WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo?]

3 hours ago, Crystal Wisdom said:

(Sorry if I should link to other sites differently, I'm still new to posting here!)

Don't worry. You did it just fine. 

[nokidsmom]

Oh my, I feel for the new Duchess of Sussex as well as the Duke.   She's newly married, adjusting to being royal and all that goes with it and she has to deal with Daddy surfacing and blabbing to the media yet again, divulging private conversations and now he's supposedly angry about the Queen's planned meeting with Trump when she hasn't met him (Daddy) yet.  Never mind he backed out of the opportunity to meet HRM earlier when he was supposed to show up for the wedding.  

Initially I had some sympathy for the guy, feeling he was overwhelmed and stressed and maybe he was taken advantage of when he did the unfortunate staged photos that came out before the wedding.  But my alarm bells started going off  when he started running to the media when he was supposed to be dealing with health issues, the same ones that were keeping him from attending the wedding. 

I hate to say it but there's something wrong with this picture when one cannot differentiate a meeting between two heads of state from meeting a new in-law relative who, incidentally, was the one who passed up the opportunity to meet the first time. 

[tabitha2]

Other than her mama  that whole family is ratchet embarrassment. The Windsor’s will never have them over for dinner and I am not mad at them.  

[DaisyD]

I would love nothing more than for the queen to ban the cheeto from her country. However, there are certain things one has to suck the fuck up and deal with as a diplomat (nevermind that the cheeto has no concept of that), so the Duchess' father making noise about it is the opposite of helpful. I still have a modicum of sympathy for him. I imagine he's the only one anyone is paying attention to anymore out of the (insert very non-pc terminology of your choice here) that is the Duchess' father's side. My guess is that he's getting pressure from them to stay relevant. Either that, or he's just as bad. Given previous info, I'm guessing they're all still hoping to cash in, and he doesn't have the good sense to STFU.

[louisa05]

On 6/9/2018 at 11:16 AM, Crystal Wisdom said:

They will be Lord/Lady Sussex unless the Queen issues a Letters Patent like she did for the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge's children. Without this, only the eldest son (regardless of birth order) would have been a Prince and the others would be Lord/Lady.

If the Queen does not issue LPs, then they become Prince/Princess when the Queen dies because they are the children of the monarch's son. Princess Anne's children (Peter Phillips and Zara Tindall) were not entitled to the HRH status because they were children of the monarch's daughter. The Queen did offer titles but Princess Anne and Captain Phillips declined them. Therefore, Prince George and Prince Louis' children will be HRH but Princess Charlotte's will be Lord/Lady. Apparently this is because (historically) the daughter of a monarch would marry into another royal family and therefore the children would have titles that way. 

So yeah, Lord/Lady until the Queen passes unless she issues LPs.

With Anne's agreement, Mark Phillips turned down the offer of a title at the time of their marriage. He likely would have received a dukedom or earldom thus entitling Peter and Zara titles of Viscount or Lord (example Edward's son's title is Viscount Severn) and Lady. They did not turn down titles for the children directly as they were never entitled to them because their father does not have a title. 

Not all dukedom's are hereditary. Harry's children may get their own distinct titles as adults --likely upon marriage-- if Charles or William as the monarch chooses to bestow them. 

[nokidsmom]

4 hours ago, tabitha2 said:

Other than her mama  that whole family is ratchet embarrassment. The Windsor’s will never have them over for dinner and I am not mad at them.  

Indeed, it's pretty certain that this wackadoo family, with the exception of the classy and obviously sane, mom perhaps, will never step inside Buckingham Palace even if they think they can just show up at the gates, bags in hand.

8 minutes ago, DaisyD said:

I would love nothing more than for the queen to ban the cheeto from her country. However, there are certain things one has to suck the fuck up and deal with as a diplomat (nevermind that the cheeto has no concept of that), so the Duchess' father making noise about it is the opposite of helpful

I can't imagine the Queen is keen on meeting the cheeto, however, she's been queen for 65 years so she's been through this before, meaning meeting heads of state that she doesn't care for.  She knows how to handle it.  I don't think Daddy making noise will make any dent into this, on a broader political scale but it makes it personally more difficult for the Duchess.  

 

[VelociRapture]

Yeah. I think I’m done giving Thomas the benefit of the doubt:

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/duchess-sussex-apos-struggling-cope-114743338.html

For fuck’s sake... maybe she cut contact because you won’t stop talking about her and her in-laws to every reporter who calls asking for a comment? 

I’m starting to see where Samantha gets it from.

[Briefly]

Yep, her father has officially gone over the edge with his latest comments.  I definitely think the rest of the family on his side are out for whatever they can get, but I was hoping that he might be better. However, I'm thinking it's a case of the apple not falling far from the tree.  The apples are rotten but so is the tree.

[tabitha2]

He might heartily regret his behavior when he has  grandchildren he will never know. If he has any shame that is. 

[WiseGirl]

His 15 minutes needs to end now.

Tiny question, how does he know she is struggling if she hasn't spoken to him? She looks pretty happy in all the photos I've seen (with Harry, Kate at Wimbledon the christening, etc.)

His behavior has been abysmal.  Here's a hint, constantly talking to the tabloids is not the way to reconcile. 

Beginning to think Harry was spot on when he made the comment about family quite some time ago.

[nokidsmom]

Agree on Thomas' behavior.  Initially I had some sympathy for him, thinking he might been taken advantage of and being stressed (health issues, crazy family members, the wedding) made him more vulnerable.  But I lost all sympathy after his Good Morning Britain interview.  How on earth can he think that engaging in the same behavior (talking to the press, and the tabloids to boot) that got him "shunned" as he seems to fear, will reconcile him with this daughter?

I am thinking like @Briefly, that we are seeing that the apple doesn't fall far from the tree, and the family has been one big mess long before Meghan met Harry.  

[JordynDarby5]

I had my suspicions when he didn't go to the wedding and hired someone to take pictures of him. That's a weird thing to if your trying not to embarrass your daughter. I thought it was weird he didn't defend her against his other kids horrible comments. But when he gave the interview after the wedding that's when I lost all sympathy. He kept talking about how missed being a part of history. Yes, he did but most would regret missing out on walking their daughter down the aisle and being at her wedding. Telling everyone about his first phone call with Meghan and Harry. Why would you tell anyone about that if your trying to respect their privacy? Why would you talk to reporters at all?    

[nokidsmom]

5 hours ago, JordynDarby5 said:

But when he gave the interview after the wedding that's when I lost all sympathy. He kept talking about how missed being a part of history. Yes, he did but most would regret missing out on walking their daughter down the aisle and being at her wedding. Telling everyone about his first phone call with Meghan and Harry. Why would you tell anyone about that if your trying to respect their privacy? Why would you talk to reporters at all?     

That "part of history" got me too.  Why couldn't he just say he was sorry he couldn't be there to walk his daughter down the aisle, to be there for her?  Originally, I wrote off that statement when he went running to TMZ but to say it again in the interview struck me as weird.

It's clear that he doesn't understand the role that his daughter has taken on, and her life is going to be quite different now whether he likes it or not.   That discretion is important to the RF and they have a history of writing off people who can't be trusted.  He admitted in the GMB interview that he was not to talk and yet....here he is, blabbing to the press again. 

[anjulibai]

I know this is late to the discussion, but about the titles. 

George the V limited who could be a prince or princess: children of the sovereign, male line children of the sovereign and the eldest son of the eldest son of the Prince of Wales. 

Since the change to equal primogeniture and since they'd become princes and princesses anyways when Charles ascended the throne, the Queen issued Letters Patent saying that all of the children of the eldest son of the Prince of Wales would be princess. Otherwise, only George would be a prince, and Charlotte and Louis would be Lord and Lady. 

Since he's not the eldest son of the Prince of Wales, at this point Harry's children would be styled as Lord or Lady, except for the eldest son, who would have a courtesy title, which would be one of Harry's lesser titles, the Earl of Dumbarton. 

However, when Charles becomes King, then Harry's children would be elevated to prince and princess of Sussex. 

That is, unless further Letters Patent are issued, keeping them at the lesser titles. This was done for Prince Edwards children, who would otherwise be Princess Louise and Prince James. They are instead styled as children of an Earl, Lady Louise and James, Viscount Severn. 

But, the Queen could issue new Letters Patent to make Harry's children princes and princesses before Charles becomes king, like she did for William's younger children. 

It's hard to say which way it will go. Personally, I think Harry and Meghan will ask for their children to not be princes and princesses. 

 

[louisa05]

On 7/16/2018 at 6:19 AM, tabitha2 said:

He might heartily regret his behavior when he has  grandchildren he will never know. If he has any shame that is. 

I don't think he was ever going to know them regardless. By all accounts, it seems she cut off all but cursory contact years ago for no reason other than that she could. He was not an absentee father in her growing up years and she even acknowledged early in her career that he used his connections to get her first acting job for her. So the demonization of him seems a bit over the top. 

He seems to have given up a good job earlier than retirement age and walked away from his life and isolated himself. That behavior would suggest mental illness or other emotional difficulties. Frankly, Meghan joining the Cambridges and Harry's Heads Together initiative while having avoided her possibly mentally ill or struggling father for years seems a bit off. 

[lynn0810]

31 minutes ago, louisa05 said:

I don't think he was ever going to know them regardless. By all accounts, it seems she cut off all but cursory contact years ago for no reason other than that she could. He was not an absentee father in her growing up years and she even acknowledged early in her career that he used his connections to get her first acting job for her. So the demonization of him seems a bit over the top. 

He seems to have given up a good job earlier than retirement age and walked away from his life and isolated himself. That behavior would suggest mental illness or other emotional difficulties. Frankly, Meghan joining the Cambridges and Harry's Heads Together initiative while having avoided her possibly mentally ill or struggling father for years seems a bit off. 

I don't think that is a fair judgement of Meghan/Heads Together. While Harry has talked about his personal mental health, neither of the dukes have really commented on the mental health struggles of their mother. We really don't know the full background on Thomas and her, or how she has handled it before meeting Harry. We just know her siblings version and gossip. 

[DaisyD]

Considering her sblings' penchant for saying she's awful with one breath, and wonderful with the next, I wouldn't believe anything they say. They throw out what my mother would call "test balloons". They'll stick with whichever story gets them the most attention. Seeing that, no matter how Meghan has treated them, none of this should have been about them, I'm glad there's radio silence from the RF. That's, by far, the best way to deal with bullshit like this.

[VelociRapture]

There is something seriously emotionally unhealthy about the Markle family:

https://www.thedailybeast.com/now-her-sister-threatens-meghan-markle-with-the-prospect-of-her-dads-death?yptr=yahoo

Honestly at this point, I don’t blame her a bit if she chose to cut contact. No one should be obligated to keep contact with people that are unhealthy for them to be around. I can only imagine how bad they must be in private if this is how they act publicly. 

[mstee]

A family friend is friends with Meghan’s mom. She said she is one of the most private people she’s ever known. She hasn’t discussed Meghan lately or the wedding at all, so my friend doesn’t ask. She said she’s also one of the most generous people she knows. I’d venture to guess that Meghan takes after her mother. 

[AliceInFundyland]

I picked up a tabloid today that said Kate was “fuming” because William had gone off to the Middle East and encountered the model Bar Rafaeli. Reports said she found the Prince “handsome and charming.” Apparently that’s what upset her. Nobody has described William as handsome or charming since they were in college. 

No clue what kernel of truth might be in that nonsense. Just thought it was funny.