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How do fundies afford it?


JermajestyDuggar

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Fundie finances are about to become more complex what with the GDPR going into effect at the end of this week.

Since many of our snarkees earn money through their websites & blogs, they are indeed affected by this, as none other than Crystal Paine explains.

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DAMN this topic is awesome and your comments are spot on! I can't even imagine how would I support ONE child in Seattle, let alone 13 and me not working. Heck no way. 

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5 hours ago, katilac said:

I can swim, but I wouldn't call myself or my kids strong swimmers. We still swim in natural bodies of water. We do try to be aware of the general and specific dangers so we know how to react, but we're still taking a chance that others might not.

Yeah, I read the YouCaring site and initially was all "what was he doing in the water if he can't swim?!" but then checked myself and having grown up in Australia, where water safety is stressed to a huge degree and still we have deaths of competent swimmers, it happens. I was raised to spend some time looking over a beach and identifying where the rips were, I was taught how to recognize them, I was also taught what to do if caught in one. As far as rivers and lakes go, the currents, sudden pockets of paralyzing icy water, drop offs, and submerged objects that you could get caught on or dragged down by were always taught to me. Even being aware of these things doesn't always save even the most competent swimmer. I've definitely been caught in rips (and thankfully knew what to do but it was scary and exhausting), I've had my foot caught in a submerged branch in a river (that thankfully wasn't running fast or rising)...things happen. I do not think anyone who can't swim (and isn't in the middle of a swim lesson) should ever go into any body of water without a life vest. Whatever happened to this man, drowning accidents can happen to the most competent and educated of swimmers. Unfortunately people often think that lakes are safer than the ocean but I've always been told that isn't the case.

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Fortunately the Navy wasn't so goofy religious...although I didn't much get involved with the wives' shit. We lived in our hometown, he just bounced from command to command locally (we're from a VERY military area). I had my friends, my job, my kids...so...I never had time for the wives bullshit. We'd go to the command picnic if there was one, but for the most part, we just lived our lives like we were civilians, except for the commissary (god I need to find the one on Nellis pronto). 

My son said the Army wasn't really overtly religious. When his unit deployed, there was a chaplain with them who helped the guys a lot and was uniformly admired. 

The USAFA has gotten into trouble with the overt religiousity if I recall...

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On 5/20/2018 at 8:00 PM, OGEmoji said:

I didn't mean to shame anyone, and I don't think anyone else mentioning it meant it that way. It is only pointed out as a way that they save money. Until last year, I paid $900/month for insurance for my child and myself.  It would have been hugely helpful to not have that exepnse. I doubt many fundie families could afford their lifestyles with bills like that, so they skip it and get the state insurance.

We are uninsured at the moment. Just for the two of us, it would be around $1200.00/month with a deductible of somewhere around $7,000.00. We have always been insured until shortly after my husband's job disappeared because the premiums are so high.  But we have hardly ever used our insurance, we had a good plan when our daughter was little and needed a lot of medical care with her asthma. But then the plans through his job got to be expensive and covered less so we started buying insurance on our own through a small business group since we also had a home based business. It did not cover much of her asthma care but we had a doctor who discounted if people paid upfront so it was not that bad. But then after the changes in the insurance industry in 2008 ish, our company left the state and we had to buy new insurance. There is only one company we could get and they were very high. Each year the premiums went up. It got to the point where we had to chose between our mortgage and health insurance. It's not a position I want to be in, but it is reality for us. Even if my husband had been able to find a job with a livable wage, I don't think we would have been able to afford health insurance if it was not available through an employer. Since most fundies are one wage earner families, I guess it's not surprising if they can't afford it.

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@Briefly We're in a similar situation. My husband has very high-deductible insurance and I am uninsured because adding me to his plan would be unaffordable. ACA plans are extremely high deductible as well. We pay a premium for our children to get CHIP through the state. If we were to make $75,000 a year for a family of 4 (which we don't, not even close) they would take away our kids' insurance. Sometimes it feels like you can't win. 

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Political opinion about to follow: 

 

i think it is truly inhumane how the American health insurance system works, and it makes absolutely no logical sense. Insurance is a system in which the larger the risk pool, the better it works. The US does the opposite by segmenting it’s population into individual units and having them carry a disproportionate risk. It makes absolutely no sense. Somehow it is possible to insure three people for 700€ (800$) a month in Germany and have no copays, deductibles, coinsurances, limited networks, and all that stuff, have free choice of insurance companies, and receive perfectly adequate medical care. Americans to my knowledge don’t have 3  hearts and 7 lungs that would increase the cost of insurance so much that the system would collapse would they all be pooled together. It’s just kind of dumb. And people suffer for it. End of rant :) 

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12 hours ago, seattlechic said:

DAMN this topic is awesome and your comments are spot on! I can't even imagine how would I support ONE child in Seattle, let alone 13 and me not working. Heck no way. 

Right?! We do ok and have one kid, and still wonder where all the money goes. I really do feel for our fundie kiddos. This discussion is both fascinating (I keep visiting again and again to see what's new!) and also so sad.

46 minutes ago, FundieCentral said:

Political opinion about to follow: 

 

i think it is truly inhumane how the American health insurance system works, and it makes absolutely no logical sense. Insurance is a system in which the larger the risk pool, the better it works. The US does the opposite by segmenting it’s population into individual units and having them carry a disproportionate risk. It makes absolutely no sense. Somehow it is possible to insure three people for 700€ (800$) a month in Germany and have no copays, deductibles, coinsurances, limited networks, and all that stuff, have free choice of insurance companies, and receive perfectly adequate medical care. Americans to my knowledge don’t have 3  hearts and 7 lungs that would increase the cost of insurance so much that the system would collapse would they all be pooled together. It’s just kind of dumb. And people suffer for it. End of rant :)

Yes, it is super inhumane. Thinking of people without health insurance is similar to thinking of people without food or shelter. Thte USA has become an even harder place, and the word 'inhumane' is correct.

What makes it extra frustrating is that I know it is a problem that can be solved. I lived in a universal-healthcare country as a kid, and I know it can work. I disclosed that we are a military family, and can also tell you that if 5% of the US population* (plus families) can access competent healthcare in every state in the US plus many military bases overseas, then we can scale it.

*This does not include veterans (people who served in the military for a time, but did not serve for 20 years), as they have their own system, the VA, and it can be problematic.

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Many people do die prematurely because they hold off going to the doctor because they can’t afford it. It’s a topic that is hard to study but I’ve seen it with my own eyes. It’s horrible and our current administration won’t be doing much to help. 

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1 hour ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

Many people do die prematurely because they hold off going to the doctor because they can’t afford it. It’s a topic that is hard to study but I’ve seen it with my own eyes. It’s horrible and our current administration won’t be doing much to help. 

I agree.  I have a neurologist who handles my migraine treatment.  If I need to be seen asap (major exacerbation, etc.) I am admitted to the hospital so I am prioritized.  The waiting list to see him is booked 3 months out.  So yes, I'll try to wait it out, if possible.  Hospitalizations mean follow-up visits, MRIs, lab work, and therapy evaluations if things arent within parameters.

Even with my current insurance, I'd still be paying between $15,000 to $20,000.  It's insane.  That doesn't factor in any routine visits, labs, etc. 

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3 hours ago, FundieCentral said:

Political opinion about to follow: 

i think it is truly inhumane how the American health insurance system works, and it makes absolutely no logical sense. Insurance is a system in which the larger the risk pool, the better it works. The US does the opposite by segmenting it’s population into individual units and having them carry a disproportionate risk. It makes absolutely no sense. Somehow it is possible to insure three people for 700€ (800$) a month in Germany and have no copays, deductibles, coinsurances, limited networks, and all that stuff, have free choice of insurance companies, and receive perfectly adequate medical care. Americans to my knowledge don’t have 3  hearts and 7 lungs that would increase the cost of insurance so much that the system would collapse would they all be pooled together. It’s just kind of dumb. And people suffer for it. End of rant :)

People go bankrupt in the US* for health care. Middle and upper class people go bankrupt, it isn't only the poor. I know people that have sons with DMD (Duchenne muscular dystrophy) the meds a day, plus fully motorized chairs, plus Hoyer lifts, wheelchair van, etc. are all very expensive. The medical equipment (I consider Hoyer lifts, motorized chairs, hospital bed, wheelchair van as all medical equipment) is hardly ever covered and what if the parents want a date night or weekend? Almost impossible to get a CNA covered to come and assist for an evening, let alone a weekend. It is usually all out of pocket.

The saddest thing, is our congress men and women have amazing insurance yet they want to get rid of Medicare & social security (which all of us with jobs pay into in the form of FICA). My US house of rep guy has a wife with an autoimmune disease yet he helped gut ACA after Trump was elected (including limiting existing conditions). A lot of Congress members are very in inhumane to their constitutes.

I am very tired and sickened by all the go-fund me requests for medical help and/or medical equipment fund raising. It is 2018, we shouldn't have to pass the plate to cover medical expenses! UGH~

Inhumane is a perfect word for the health care mess in the US

*changing "America" to US since Canada has rockin' health care

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I was not going to weight in on Health Insurance but I can not control myself. As a medical professional for over 45 years, I have first hand look at how screwed up health care system is, ACA was a good start however it was never meant to be end all, there were other benefits and services that would have been rolled out if the dumb short sighted elected rep would have work with Obama to make it work. United States have the highest cost of medical care in the industrialized world with the worst outcome, highest maternal fetal death rate, diabetic complications, post surgical infections and I can go on and on. Biggest issue is that US elected rep have spread myths about Universal Healthcare like rationed healthcare well we have it now but it is by economics, forced treatment on people, i.e. vaccinations, birth control, right to die and no choice of providers these are just a few. Majority of people who where against the ACA either had Medicare or employee sponsored insurance so they had no skin in the game they just hated thee president. Here is something that everyone should understand anyone that has medical insurance now is paying for the care of the uninsured through higher premiums. Universal Healthcare is also a national security issue-if we do not have a healthy population then how can we protect ourselves and raise an armed force, which we might need sooner than we all think. Healthcare is 15% of our economy and will only grow as the population age.  I still can't get my head around why people are against Universal Healthcare, as John McCain said we are all going to die it is just a matter of time and we don't know how or when. Healthcare should be available to everyone regardless of their income, race and location.

Regarding fundie and healthcare they either pay for one of those cost sharing programs or go without and then expect that they should get it for free or greatly reduced cost. I see it every day, one of their habits that just pisses me off-they make appointment for one member of the family of course they have to bring everyone and expect the provider to see everyone in one 15 min appointment then get charged for one visit. I am the medical director for federally funded community health clinic we had to put up a sign saying one person per scheduled appointment, patient (under 18) and parent are only allowed in the exam room during the appointment.  We still get push back. Other thing is that they are not compliant with the treatment plan that is given to them, go off to some crazy EO treatment that only makes the condition worse. Best one that I have seen is quit taking insulin, switching to organic food diet and using einkorn flour then they wonder why they are still having issues with their blood sugar. May I hit my head against the wall now?

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I am uninsured right now. Fortunately, I am able to access care through sliding scale clinics here. However, if I ever get sick, we're screwed. The premium JUST FOR ME would have been over 400 dollars a month with a 4000.00 deductible...so call it 10 grand a year. 

My husband has the VA which has been a godsend. We still have to pay a co-pay of about 150.00 per month for his prescriptions. I'm not complaining, without insurance we could not afford his prescriptions. A single vial of insulin is about 250.00. He goes through about 3 per month. He is on an insulin pump (that was 10 grand). The cannulas, reservoirs and CGM sensors would be about 1200.00 a month w/o insurance. Yeah...I'm good with the idea of universal health care. 

 

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The state of healthcare in the US is practically criminal.

I think we need to require our elected officials to live within the minimum standards they have set for the rest of us.  Their healthcare should come through the same exchanges as mine does.  Their kids should eat USDA approved school lunches.  They should be legally required to drink tap water...etc

if something is good enough for the rest of us, it should be required for them.

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Ok sleuths, because I know someone here has a spread sheet with this data.

Who actually owns all these homes? The log cabin, Jessa's house, Josh's house...is it the trust, or do individual family members own the properties. Also, if Jessa owns her home, title and all, did money actually exchange hands, or just the title? Where do GMM, Joe/Kendra live? 

Is there funny financing going on?????

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11 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

Where do GMM, Joe/Kendra live? 

I don’t know about Joe and Kendra, but I’m pretty sure Grandma Mary has a cot in the laundry room.

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I wouldn’t be surprised if some of them, despite their “debt-free living” line, are up to their eyeballs in credit card debt.

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11 hours ago, SassyPants said:

Where do GMM, Joe/Kendra live? 

Joe/Kendra live in Grandma's old log cabin on the TTH property.
Grandma was living with Deanna (I thought), but just saw reference to a post by a Duggar friend where he referred to the pool house (where Jill & Derick lived) as Grandma's.

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18 hours ago, Themanda Duggar said:

I think we need to require our elected officials to live within the minimum standards they have set for the rest of us.  Their healthcare should come through the same exchanges as mine does.  

This is one of the MANY reasons I love (one of) my senators. He has refused the government healthcare until every citizen has the option/ability to obtain the same quality of care at similar prices. His coverage is through his wife's job, so they probably pay even more since he has other access to coverage. 

Unfortunately the other senators (and everyone else in government) can't be bothered to follow his lead. And the reasons why should tell them a LOT about what their constituents have to deal with - but they don't care. We really need to put limits on campaign contributions. When these representatives' pockets are being filled by the insurance companies, NRA, everyone else - it's clear where their loyalties are. /political rant. 

More on topic, I have no idea how these families do it. My husband and I both have good jobs and are relatively healthy. No kids yet (and haven't gotten to the higher-cost fertility treatments point yet) and last night it was abundantly clear that our A/C isn't working. We knew it was a matter of time, it was 26 years old when we bought the house last year. But I'm still low-level panicking about the cost because there is a lot of other stuff we haven't done yet that also needs done. Windows are going to be next year and ouch that is going to hurt. Do these families just ignore the regular maintenance on their houses until they are falling apart? Do they rely on begging for stuff like if the heater goes out after not taking care of any of it? Houses are expensive, and having too many kids shoved into one doesn't help things stay in working order!

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1 hour ago, Rowan said:

More on topic, I have no idea how these families do it. My husband and I both have good jobs and are relatively healthy. No kids yet (and haven't gotten to the higher-cost fertility treatments point yet) and last night it was abundantly clear that our A/C isn't working. We knew it was a matter of time, it was 26 years old when we bought the house last year. But I'm still low-level panicking about the cost because there is a lot of other stuff we haven't done yet that also needs done. Windows are going to be next year and ouch that is going to hurt. Do these families just ignore the regular maintenance on their houses until they are falling apart? Do they rely on begging for stuff like if the heater goes out after not taking care of any of it? Houses are expensive, and having too many kids shoved into one doesn't help things stay in working order!

The barter system maybe?  Fundie one is a decent electrician (not licensed but ok) and Fundie two has carrots which Fundie one gets in exchange for services?

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1 hour ago, Rowan said:

This is one of the MANY reasons I love (one of) my senators. He has refused the government healthcare until every citizen has the option/ability to obtain the same quality of care at similar prices. His coverage is through his wife's job, so they probably pay even more since he has other access to coverage. 

Unfortunately the other senators (and everyone else in government) can't be bothered to follow his lead. And the reasons why should tell them a LOT about what their constituents have to deal with - but they don't care. We really need to put limits on campaign contributions. When these representatives' pockets are being filled by the insurance companies, NRA, everyone else - it's clear where their loyalties are. /political rant. 

More on topic, I have no idea how these families do it. My husband and I both have good jobs and are relatively healthy. No kids yet (and haven't gotten to the higher-cost fertility treatments point yet) and last night it was abundantly clear that our A/C isn't working. We knew it was a matter of time, it was 26 years old when we bought the house last year. But I'm still low-level panicking about the cost because there is a lot of other stuff we haven't done yet that also needs done. Windows are going to be next year and ouch that is going to hurt. Do these families just ignore the regular maintenance on their houses until they are falling apart? Do they rely on begging for stuff like if the heater goes out after not taking care of any of it? Houses are expensive, and having too many kids shoved into one doesn't help things stay in working order!

I think a lot of them just make do. They probably wouldn’t buy a new AC and just get a bunch of used window AC units from an auction or yard sale. And they probably wouldn’t replace the windows either. Unless they could install them themselves to save money. 

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2 hours ago, Rowan said:

Do these families just ignore the regular maintenance on their houses until they are falling apart? Do they rely on begging for stuff like if the heater goes out after not taking care of any of it? Houses are expensive, and having too many kids shoved into one doesn't help things stay in working order!

I think a lot of them do their own maintenance.  You can get the schematics for things like air conditioning systems, furnaces, and heat pumps. You can buy new windows that are seconds (usually just cosmetic damage) for a lot less than first quality windows, and install them yourselves. Many appliance stores have a back room full of “scratch and dent” pieces that are hugely discounted.  You can get all kinds of things from other people’s remodels and from recycling centers.  I got a very nice double stainless steel sink for $8 at our local recycling center.  I dug around in the scrap yard of a nearby granite and marble store to get granite for the windowsills of a room I remodeled.  I spent $5 there, and got granite for 3 windowsills.  I was even able to talk them into cutting them into the lengths I needed. I’ve been amazed by how inexpensively repairs, maintenance, and remodeling can be done if you do the work yourself, and are willing to put the time into sourcing your materials.

 

 

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On 5/22/2018 at 2:40 PM, SassyPants said:

Ok sleuths, because I know someone here has a spread sheet with this data.

Who actually owns all these homes? The log cabin, Jessa's house, Josh's house...is it the trust, or do individual family members own the properties. Also, if Jessa owns her home, title and all, did money actually exchange hands, or just the title? Where do GMM, Joe/Kendra live? 

Is there funny financing going on?????

On 5/22/2018 at 2:53 PM, Themanda Duggar said:

I don’t know about Joe and Kendra, but I’m pretty sure Grandma Mary has a cot in the laundry room.

19 hours ago, Tim-Tom Biblethumper said:

Joe/Kendra live in Grandma's old log cabin on the TTH property.
Grandma was living with Deanna (I thought), but just saw reference to a post by a Duggar friend where he referred to the pool house (where Jill & Derick lived) as Grandma's.

The Duggars own A LOT of property. Some is held by various family members individually and in pairs (Jana, John, Jessa & Ben, Jinger & Jeremy, Joy & Austin, Jason, Grandma Mary, Deanna, Amy & Dillon) while others are owned by the James R and Michelle A Duggar Revocable Living Trust and Duggar Properties LLC. 

The log cabin where Joe & Kendra live is not listed separately from the TTH property which is owned by the Revocable Living Trust.

Jessa and Ben's house is in their names. The deed lists the sale as "One dollar and other good and valuable consideration" More money may have changed hands but it's possible that Grandma Duggar gave them the house and they won't inherit anything in her will. As far as I'm aware this isn't a shady deal, I've seen other property transactions that were handled inter-family in a similar manner but I'm not a real estate expert.

Josh and Anna's house is owned by ALB Investments LLC (it was transferred when Josh went to Jesus jail). We don't know who owns the LLC but it's probably Josh and Anna.

As far as I know, we don't really know where Grandma Duggar is currently residing, although there are two possibilities based on an online look-up (I suspect one is out-of-date). She did live at the TTH for a while, then moved in with Deanna when she got divorced, but we haven't heard anything recently via the show. She does own number of properties in her own name including the pool house where Jill and Derick lived but she isn't listed at that address.

Jill & Derick appear to be living in a rental.

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2 hours ago, Bethella said:

As far as I'm aware this isn't a shady deal, I've seen other property transactions that were handled inter-family in a similar manner but I'm not a real estate expert.

Neither am I a real estate expert, but this type of thing is pretty common when the older generation has property that the younger generations don't have but need. A variation is the creation of a subdivision of the (grand)parents' property which allows young folks to build on the newly created lots.

 

ETA: Of course, whether or not this is an example of fundie self-sufficiency or handouts to adult children is debatable! 

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Just now, hoipolloi said:

A variation is the creation of a subdivision of the (grand)parents' property which allows young folks to build on the newly created lots.

I assume that this is going to happen at the TTH eventually and that Joe and Kendra will get the lot where their log house is located.

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