Jump to content
IGNORED

How do fundies afford it?


JermajestyDuggar

Recommended Posts

5 hours ago, Tatar-tot said:

PP & Zsu are not a church in the eyes of the IRS - they were never granted Church status.  Check guidestar.org.

Church's are not "granted church status" that comes automatically... From IRS Publication 1828 (page 2):

"Recognition  of  Tax-Exempt  Status Automatic  Exemption  for  Churches Churches that meet the requirements of IRC Section 501(c)(3) are automatically considered tax exempt and are not required to apply for and obtain recognition of tax-exempt status from the IRS. Although there is no requirement to do so, many churches seek recognition of tax-exempt status from the IRS because this recognition assures church leaders, members and contributors that the church is recognized as exempt and qualifies for related tax benefits. For example, contributors to a church that has been   recognized as tax exempt would know that their contributions generally are   tax-deductible. "

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 175
  • Created
  • Last Reply
1 hour ago, nausicaa said:

 

I really wish we could find a screenshot of that GoFundMe because the denial and blame shifting was pretty epic. 

 

Sooooo much denial! I remember reading Sam's "explanation" of how he came to unwittingly fall into the clutches of the Feds. It was horrifyingly devoid of any sense of responsibility. The entire thing was gross. Same with the original "Bringing Home Rebecca," a masterpiece of clueless, judgmental pride.

Sometimes life (or Karma) gives people a good hard slap in the face for making bad decisions. I hope both Colemans re-evaluated their beliefs after the debacle, but going by 2017 FB pics, they still look pretty fundie (modest dress). 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

53 minutes ago, Lisafer said:

Sooooo much denial! I remember reading Sam's "explanation" of how he came to unwittingly fall into the clutches of the Feds. It was horrifyingly devoid of any sense of responsibility. The entire thing was gross. Same with the original "Bringing Home Rebecca," a masterpiece of clueless, judgmental pride.

Sometimes life (or Karma) gives people a good hard slap in the face for making bad decisions. I hope both Colemans re-evaluated their beliefs after the debacle, but going by 2017 FB pics, they still look pretty fundie (modest dress). 

Tried finding these two fine people on FB.  Hope he is off paper,.....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, Lisafer said:

@polecat I wonder, also, if people in the military are more likely to be the personality type that is attracted to fundie-ism? I know that's a huge generalization, but both military and fundies have a lot of rules and regulations that might make some people more comfortable! My dad was in the military for a time as well, before he became fundie.

Thanks for responding. My parents refused government healthcare when their children were small, so I didn't see a doctor until I was 17.  I might be a little bitter... 

I don't know that I'd say that. But I do think that being so far from home and support (certainly in those days when long distance phone calls just weren't a thing and letters took forever) left people suuuuper vulnerable to getting love-bombed by fundies. It's probably not so bad these days since everyone has mobile phones and wifi and easy access to social networking.

But back then? Once you PCSd, that was it. I can count on two hands the number of times I saw my extended family growing up -- and still have fingers to spare. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, nausicaa said:

Even better, they went into why she absolutely couldn't work a job and put her kids into daycare--because no loving mother would do such a thing. 

So, women who did work (wage slaves, I believe we're called) and possibly had kids in daycare were supposed to donate their earnings to the righteous Rebecca. 

I really wish we could find a screenshot of that GoFundMe because the denial and blame shifting was pretty epic. 

Yes, she couldn't possibly go to work.:pb_rollseyes: There was a reason the church couldn't help. They had a fund for widows, but a husband going to jail didn't qualify. The had several versions of the go fund me. The first one he accepted no blame and asked for a ton of money. He never really did accept that he broke laws, he always acted like there was no way he should know lying on federal gun forms to ship gun parts around the world was a crime. 

It was just amazing how many laws he was willing to break to get money, which made me think that the whole "Bringing Home Rebecca" idea didn't work out too well. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 minutes ago, formergothardite said:

Yes, she couldn't possibly go to work.:pb_rollseyes: There was a reason the church couldn't help. They had a fund for widows, but a husband going to jail didn't qualify. The had several versions of the go fund me. The first one he accepted no blame and asked for a ton of money. He never really did accept that he broke laws, he always acted like there was no way he should know lying on federal gun forms to ship gun parts around the world was a crime. 

It was just amazing how many laws he was willing to break to get money, which made me think that the whole "Bringing Home Rebecca" idea didn't work out too well. 

I read the Bringing Home A Wife posting and really wanted to vomit.  It was so ridiculous! Everyone in the office was happy for her, including the other women she worked with - yeah, right. They were probably just glad she was gone, I got the feeling that she didn't have many friends at work and I'm guessing she was pretty insufferable.  As far as lying on the gun forms - he knew exactly what he was doing. It's the evil gubment again, he is innocent! :tw_grimace:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

23 hours ago, Lisafer said:

And I know nobody upthread meant it this way, but fundie or atheist, Republican or Democrat, conservative or liberal, there is no shame in using government health insurance for your children. I'd rather see hypocritical fundies taking their kids to the doctor than consistent fundies letting their kids die for lack of medicine. Large families, even with working parents, are likely to qualify for income-based assistance. Take it, people, and take your kids to the doctor when they need to go. 

I didn't mean to shame anyone, and I don't think anyone else mentioning it meant it that way. It is only pointed out as a way that they save money. Until last year, I paid $900/month for insurance for my child and myself.  It would have been hugely helpful to not have that exepnse. I doubt many fundie families could afford their lifestyles with bills like that, so they skip it and get the state insurance.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, OGEmoji said:

I didn't mean to shame anyone, and I don't think anyone else mentioning it meant it that way. It is only pointed out as a way that they save money. Until last year, I paid $900/month for insurance for my child and myself.  It would have been hugely helpful to not have that exepnse. I doubt many fundie families could affodd their lifestyles with bills like that, so they skip it and get the state insurance.

Yeah, my parents didn't take state insurance even though it would most likely have been free based on their family size. Something about evil gubmint intruding in our lives with their evil free money. I pay a premium for my own kids to get CHIP because my state didn't expand Medicaid and I'm above the FPL, and I'm uninsured myself because every option is unaffordable including the ACA plans. Healthcare in the U.S. is so. fucked. up. I'm optimistically holding out for single-payer! 

Sorry to derail. Carry on.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am endlessly fascinated by finances.

My husband and I lived on one (crappy) income for several years, while he was in school and our oldest two were born. I look back and I don’t know how we did it. But here are some things that I think probably hold true:

1) self-denial and denial of what people might consider needs. We didn’t have a nursery or new things for the babies. We only did free things, like library story hour or free crafts at Home Depot. I remember talking to a coworker about not being able to paint our living room and she said, “a can of paint is 25 bucks,” and I was like, “exactly.” Things I consider necessary now were beyond luxury.

2) Stress. So much stress. Can’t make it to work because gas got expensive. Medicine is too much so we will skip it for now. Chastising people for texting me because every text cost me a dime.

3) Cutting corners. No birthday cards to give with presents because the cards cost an extra $3. Turn the heat down by four more degrees. Make Christmas presents. Share a car to get to work. Only buy clothes after the season ends, on clearance, for next year.

I guess the point is that for us, it meant a lot of stress and a lot of energy and no backup finances available. We aren’t great about saving money now but I don’t cry about the cost of a birthday card, and I don’t freak out over my husband forgetting to turn his space heater off for a few hours in the winter. It was always so close to the line, and more than anything it was psychologically exhausting. And all of that bled into every aspect of life. How do you have patience for a toddler when you are so worried about that $68 hospital bill that didn’t get covered?

And that was with 1-2 kids.

I suspect that for most fundies, finances are hugely stressful, wives are extremely resourceful, and everything succeeds on the blade of a knife - add in one special needs kid or one car accident and everything falls apart.

(but I can never get enough hearing about it).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

One more thing: I currently work multiple jobs in part to pay for my daighters’ exorbitant gymnastics bills. Through gymnastics, they have learned to trust their bodies, that their hard work pays off, that they can do ANYTHING they decide they want to do. There is a moment on the parallel bars, one moment before they flip around, when the confidence they feel in their bodies is palpable.

It is worth every penny and every minute of work outside the home that I do.

My goal: Never ever ever will they sit beside me and explain enthusiastically to Facebook how they are waiting patiently and submissively for a man to find them. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, OGEmoji said:

I didn't mean to shame anyone, and I don't think anyone else mentioning it meant it that way. It is only pointed out as a way that they save money. Until last year, I paid $900/month for insurance for my child and myself.  It would have been hugely helpful to not have that exepnse. I doubt many fundie families could afford their lifestyles with bills like that, so they skip it and get the state insurance.

$900 a month?! Far out. I am so thankful I live in a universal healthcare country. I paid nothing for my two births & my son’s NICU stay, my ICU stay following the difficult births. Scans, appointments all free. 

I do pay $40 for a GP visit but could go to a free clinic. 

That is just an outrage you have to pay that much. I can understand why some people take the risk and don’t insure.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, lilwriter85 said:

I also remember the Little Tait medical fund story. A couple in Alaska who involved with VF ties had a son who was born premature and qualified for Medicaid assistance because of the birth weight. They refused the assistance and four years later they started fundraising to pay the remaining 100k.

They also kept having kids. Tait was born in 2009 and she's currently pregnant with #6.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As @polecat, @Lisafer and @zeebaneighba write, the military is a special animal. Fundie-wise, I have a whole ton of knowledge. I won't give details on my experience to avoid outing myself, there are more than enough stats along with anecdotal knowledge (Mr Fille is in the Air Force). first of all, anyone who is a longtimer in the military will tell you that it has grown super-religious. There are institutional things, like that every formal event (squadron dinner, holiday party, official Gay Pride events) start with a prayer. And it is a..very...ah...Christianist prayer. (we fellow atheists usually have fun looking around and seeing who else isn't bowing their heads!)

The reason for all the Christianist stuff is that the chaplaincy contains a disproportionate amount of evangelical ministers to the general active duty military population (which includes non-Christians--and believe it or not, contains a high percentage of "no religious preference" at 25% than the general population)

image.thumb.png.06da3814efaaddfb904fa93f3ea87100.png

(Graph from militaryatheists.com. Go read the full report. I rate Military Association of Atheists and Freethinkers very highly because it intends to be inclusive.)

Another association I rate very highly is Forum on the Military Chaplaincy, which aims to also be inclusive, gathering together many chaplains of various faiths to figure out how to provide support to our military personnel.

Chaplains provide a lot of support to military. They are the only ones who can provide full confidentiality to active-duty military. This means that if a service member is having a difficult time, they can go to the chaplain and be guaranteed that commanding officer will not find out. (Not necessarily the case if the service member went to a licensed mental health provider. There is some inside baseball about the hows/whys/ifs, but there you go) For this reason (providing support), many of the chaplain's endorsing agencies (Missouri Synod Lutheran, for example), have made exceptions for chaplains to assist those who do not share the chaplain's faith (more about this below)

Chaplains also host a lot of parenting, family, and marriage programming. For example, there are free family/marriage retreats when a service member returns from deployment.  Playgroup is also usually held at the chapel. These services are an important part combating the higher-than-civilian-rates-of-domestic-violence in the military.

The major problem is that chaplains have to be endorsed both by their religious agency (Presbyterian Church USA, for example) and the military. And the endorsing agency will defrock any chaplain who goes against their endorsement. So, if a Southern Baptist preacher, who helps a gay military member get through a relationship problem while deployed in Afghanistan, will be defrocked from the Southern Baptists and lose both his job as a minister and as a military officer. Basically, for doing the Christian thing (helping someone in need), he loses his job. Not cool, CARL

These evangelical chaplains are required by the military to look for someone who matches the faith of the servicemember, or is LGBT-affirming. Of course, that is not always possible--especially deployed situations or in smaller bases. And in practice, it doesn't always happen, especially since many of these endorsing agencies require religious proselytization, and this causes inner tension with the chaplain.

If you want to read about how this affects everyday military service members, read this article about a sergeant who wanted to attend a retreat with her wife.

Onto fundie families especially: living on-base, there are a TON of homeschooling, stay-at-home-mom families and there is a ton of pressure to do what they do. Even on-base, it is possible to put up really Christianist signs and decorations on homes. I have really strong feelings about officers (and their families) being so exclusive, since they often are a first-stop for their enlisted folks in need. But, there is privilege for you. Still, when healthcare is free, it is very attractive to fundie-single-women to marry someone who can support them all. All children, however, must be vaccinated and accounted for. On-base, even adult-adult domestic violence is considered a report required for mandated reporter, and all active-duty military are mandated reporters 24/7. But again, preference comes in, and many things slide.

I have a lot of personal experience showing how insidious fungelicallism actually is within military culture, but would totally out myself. But I get so angry thinking about it. Let me, then, end this long long loooooong note about the chaplaincy doing something right: in my practice, there was someone military-affiliated to needed to contact a family member. Even for this seasoned and trained military spouse, I couldn't figure it out. Google searches of bases weren't working. So, I called a chaplain in the general area. And he pulled through. I was so glad that someone so dang kind was on the job.

Edited to fix a typo, and finish a sentence. Yeah...I was getting pretty angry and my words were not working...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Woah...long post. Apparently I had some processing to do about the institutionalized approbation of toxic Christianity in the military...Thanks, guys.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@FilleMondaine Thank you so much for your detailed explanation! I really appreciate that! I can understand why you are angry about some of the things that go on in the military. But don't forget, Christians are being persecuted (sarcasm font).

And @FunFunFundie, your post gave me the shivers. Way too much like what I grew up with. Living on the edge of a knife is a good way to put it. That's partly why I never wanted a large family: I wanted to be able to give my kids a more comfortable childhood. I don't know if I'm succeeding--even two kids is crazy expensive--but I can't imagine what it would be like with five or six more!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 5/20/2018 at 8:22 AM, formergothardite said:

Rebecca(from the bringing home a wife story) did this when her husband went to jail for possibly selling guns to terrorists.  I think originally they said they wanted people to donate enough so she would have $35,000 a year while her husband served his time. When that was met with shock and lack of donations they lowered it a great deal. 

It always seemed like he was willing to do illegal things because they were flat broke after Rebecca quit her job. It didn't seem like they had any sort of savings. 

Didn't JRM once claim that we took that whole Bringing Home Rebecca story way too seriously and it was just a party?   I don't think he's been back to explain why her husband went to prison.  Might have too much egg on his face.

On 5/19/2018 at 3:23 PM, nausicaa said:

This has been debunked several times, particularly in the case of Jim Bob Duggar. 

While the IRS is somewhat loose on what constitutes a church, there are still several key elements an organization must meet to be labeled a church. Steve Anderson and Westboro qualify, but I doubt the Duggars or Maxwells ever would. Neither family currently claims, or it appears has ever claimed, tax exempt status. This information is publicly available and searchable on the IRS website. 

Agreed.  IIRC, JB Duggar has never claimed his home as a church - in fact they attended a small IFB church comprising several other families at the relevant time.  The Pissing Pastor proudly says that his hate group is not a 501(c)3.  http://sanderson1611.blogspot.com/2014/07/501c3-tax-status-and-false-accusers.html  Steve Maxwell also refuses on principle to register Titus 2 Ministries as a nonprofit.  He has a whole spiel about it at conferences and a section on his website.  

Westboro Baptist certainly claims tax-exempt status and that has been challenged many times.  Somehow they still hang onto it.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Fille, it’s been funfor my hubby and I to see the number of non head-bowers climb over the last 23 years! It was usually just me, way back when. Got called out on it a few times. Now there are lots of us- I suspect there always was but it’s a much more comfortable atmosphere now to just stand quietly, eyes open, then it used to be.

There is a general conservative bent to the military, but I suspect branch makes a difference some. The Air Force is sort of known for its many fundies, proselytizing on the job to juniors evangelicals, and Mormons. 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@FilleMondaine, many  thanks for that excellent post on fungelicallism in the military.  I was aware of a big push to evangelise the armed forces back in the early 2000s.  It is good to know there is some push back these days.

12 hours ago, FunFunFundie said:

My goal: Never ever ever will they sit beside me and explain enthusiastically to Facebook how they are waiting patiently and submissively for a man to find them. 

Power to you, sister!

As far as the question "How Do Fundies Afford It," I think the answer is:  Many cannot.

The Fundies we primarily discuss here are the ones who can afford it.  We discuss what they make public.  They can afford to put their carefully curated images up on social media and maintain blogs as their "ministries" even as they grift.  Most of them belong to churches, even if those churches and Scamaritan fail them if they are in a crunch.

But these people are the tip of the iceberg.  Many more are living in abject poverty and isolation.  The Hales have already been mentioned, but there are others out there. 

The old Maxwell Titus 2 forum used to show some of these mothers pleading to know how to feed their families on nothing, let alone how to try to buy houses debt-free.  The unrelentingly middle class and bourgeois Teri and Steve were not at all helpful, as you can imagine.  

My gateway Fundie to FJ was Lydia of Purple.  Colleen Sabin (RIP) and family.  She was making ends meet by making frumpers while husband Dale ran illegal puppy mills and ranted on the internet.  The Sabins moved states as his animal abuse was uncovered and charges were filed.  It is a pity CPS never got involved because the younger children were absolutely feral. 

The whole family fell apart when Coleen died from a brain tumor.  Last seen, Dale Sabin had bought himself a mail order bride and was breeding a new family.  The youngest son was in prison, the eldest daughter had taken in some of the others, including a sister with Downs, and was running her own puppy mill enterprise.  Also one of them was making fake "Amish" furniture, an enterprise that I hope succeeds.  

Then we have people like the Stanleys and the Rembises.  They fly under our radar unless CPS gets involved and they go public about the "persecution."

And there are all the Sovereign Citizens who overlap with Fundamentalism and are determinedly off the grid and file no paperwork with the ebil gubmint.  We used to be able to read poverty stricken Patriarchs' posts on forums like now defunct 7X Sunday, run by Gabe Anast (Michael Pearl's SIL).  Sometimes they posted on Homesteading forums.  And what they posted was shocking.

A lot of these people are underground these days or on the deep web. I dare not look.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, frumperlicious said:

Fille, it’s been funfor my hubby and I to see the number of non head-bowers climb over the last 23 years! It was usually just me, way back when. Got called out on it a few times. Now there are lots of us- I suspect there always was but it’s a much more comfortable atmosphere now to just stand quietly, eyes open, then it used to be.

There is a general conservative bent to the military, but I suspect branch makes a difference some. The Air Force is sort of known for its many fundies, proselytizing on the job to juniors evangelicals, and Mormons. 

 

 

Hey! Go military spouse team! We share that honor with John Oliver, which makes me happy to no end.

Yes, head-uppers certainly do exist, and it's neat to know that we are on that team, too. My talk about "old-timers" talking about the increasing fundamentalism in the military is totally anecdotal, glad to be corrected. The increase in fungelical chaplains, however, is sharply displayed in fact. And it's expensive! for example, we had to get an appropriate chaplain, but the closest one was a reservist 90 minutes away. So, in order to provide topcover for the base chaplain's bigotry, the US government had to pay to activate the reservist for the day, and provide mileage reimbursement. In fairness, it could have been the chaplain's endorsing agency, not the chaplain himself (it's almost always a 'he' from these type of endorsing agencies). The irony is strong that the same denominations that scream for "religious freedom" are the very same that tie their chaplain's hands instead of encouraging "Christ-like" actions. 

Back to the topic of covering life expenses: Fundie military get help in many ways. In the AF, there is a loan locker, "Airman's Attic" where there are donated clothes, uniforms, and household good for free for junior enlisted. Most bases have a food pantry. There is also some discretionary funds that can be accessed (by chaplains, first sergeants, etc) in times of need. There is also usually a WIC office on-base to help facilitate community help. It's not all fundie-military, though. The US has low-low for enlisted military, so our enlisted military all need help. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Anyone remember the Lifetime show “Army Wives”? One episode showed the inherent Christian bias of the military chaplaincy. A female major, who recently had given birth, was about to ship out and mentioned wanting some kind of christening-like ceremony for her baby. Her commanding officer’s wife arranged for a chaplain to visit her—and made an awkward assumption: the new mom was AA, so the CO’s wife assumed she was a traditional Baptist. A black Baptist chaplain showed up and the major was taken aback as he started peppering her with questions about her baptism, church attendance, and so on—when it became obvious that she was actually unchurched and an agnostic!

There was a happy ending in which the major and her husband met with a local Unitarian-Universalist pastor, and were able to put together a baby dedication ceremony that fit their needs and recognized the importance of community, which included the Muslim family of a civilian translator who had worked with the Army in Iraq. 

I had to smile: the ceremony took place in a real UU church near the place the show was filmed, and was much like my own grandson’s UU dedication!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, FilleMondaine said:

first of all, anyone who is a longtimer in the military will tell you that it has grown super-religious. There are institutional things, like that every formal event (squadron dinner, holiday party, official Gay Pride events) start with a prayer. And it is a..very...ah...Christianist prayer. (we fellow atheists usually have fun looking around and seeing who else isn't bowing their heads!)

Thank you, @FilleMondaine - excellent commentary.

As a long-ago DAFC (Dept of the Army Fucking Civilian), I can tell you that unit events like parties, etc. were Christianist back in the day, even 25-30 years ago. I hated them so much that I'd end up taking vacation in order to skip the Xmas party because it was loathsome.

This was well before LGBTQ rights & same-sex marriage -- needless to say, both would have been unimaginable then -- but the unit I worked for had a fundie C.O. whose wife "ran" the wives' activities the same Christianist way. [As a female civilian, I was invited if not expected to participate in wives' group stuff.] The religiosity of the C.O.'s wife was also hugely ironic because the C.O. did a lot tom-catting around on various TDYs (temporary duty) and his behavior was an ill-kept secret.

The Air Force Academy was (maybe still is) a hotbed of fundie Christianists about 10-15 years ago. Its proximity to the bowels of fundie Christianism in nearby Colorado Springs probably doesn't help.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, FilleMondaine said:

 

@polecat@Lisafer@zeebaneighba

 

 

 

 

snip

Our experience may have been a bit different because my husband is an engineer and was in research and education most of his career (he got his MS and PhD at AFIT* and taught there for 5 years).  Operational units probably have a very different culture.  While most around us were Christian and conservative, I do not recall feeling pressured or ostracized because we weren't church goers. Clearly, YM varies.

We have also been out for 10 years, and I suspect a LOT has changed during that time.

*Air Force Institute of Technology, the AF's grad school)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

21 hours ago, nausicaa said:

 

I don't understand the wording of this: "He was not aware of the perilous underwater geography of this lake.  He stepped off an underwater shelf, and literally stepped into eternity." Does that mean he stepped into unexpectedly deep water? So he couldn't swim? I'm really shocked that someone who is that weak of a swimmer would be out in a natural body of water without a life vest. 

1

I'm not shocked at all. Poor swimmers, and even non-swimmers, often see no harm in wading in shallow water - and that's how they worded it, he "waded" into the lake to meet his children who were on a raft "near the shoreline." 

Yes, I would say it means he stepped into unexpectedly deep water. I can't be too hard on him, because it seems that many people think that they are safe as long as they don't go too far from shore. There is a lack of awareness of changing water depths, rip currents, and other dangers.  

It's also possible that he was a decent swimmer but took a breath at the wrong time and caught a lung full of water, making it harder to react and easier to panic. Being a strong swimmer helps your odds for sure, but doesn't mean you can't drown. 

I can swim, but I wouldn't call myself or my kids strong swimmers. We still swim in natural bodies of water. We do try to be aware of the general and specific dangers so we know how to react, but we're still taking a chance that others might not.

Assuming the description is fairly accurate, I wouldn't fault him overmuch unless there were no supervising adults who could swim (an adequate number for the number of children). You can "know" that you might step into deeper water unexpectedly, but knowing that fact and actually plunging underwater with no warning are two very different things.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

24 minutes ago, katilac said:

I can swim, but I wouldn't call myself or my kids strong swimmers. We still swim in natural bodies of water. We do try to be aware of the general and specific dangers so we know how to react, but we're still taking a chance that others might not.

Live near the sea myself, and the byword here is "NEVER turn your back on the ocean."

Grew up around freshwater lakes, and, yes, unexpected holes or steep, sudden drop-offs are very common in such bodies of water. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have major issues with her beliefs, but I always like the way Bonnie from A Knotted Life (Fundy Catholic who is super-fertile, and NFP just doesn't work for*) talks about the realities of living on very limited income with 7 or 8 kids.  Mind you, things like her daughter's heart surgery can't help the budgeting.  These days her blog is a whole ton of affiliated links and so on, and I do admire the way she's making money wherever she can, while bringing up all the kids.

(*her blogs on how awful NFP-evangelists have been were really heart-rending.  She's obviously very, very diligent about it, but they're ridiculously fertile.  She also doesn't hold back about how much she misses sex, which is refreshing.  Her beliefs seem to hang so heavy for her - and I can see how that must make it even harder to walk back from some of them.   But she has the kids in a Catholic school, with some kind of scholarship deal for them, and a very supportive church community, and I think that's how it works for them.)

(If you want to know more: http://www.aknottedlife.com/)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.




×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.