John Shrader 16: Flying Away in That No-Engine Plane

[gustava]

11 hours ago, Aine said:

wonder if Rick and Jodi thought the deputation would teach John some humility and help him realize that sometimes you need to be more flexible

[Aine]

10 hours ago, Palimpsest said:

As far as I can see the IFB deputation stage is simply a fundraising gig.  It didn't teach John humility.  It honed his grifting skills though.  I still remember his boasting about having grabbed a teenage girl's entire babysitting savings and inspiring some poor sucker to get a second job in order to buy John printing paper.

Oh I agree. I just mean that maybe they secretly hoped that meeting a lot of very devout people who held slightly different interpretations on a few Scriptures (he must have heard a few sermons that he didn't agree with 100%) but that it didn't make them all-out wrong.

I doubt they had that thought but I have to imagine that they hoped he would become less dogmatic when he left Katy and his Dad's church for whatever true reason he left. 

10 hours ago, Palimpsest said:

Mind you, I expect it was a very long sermon.

Does John ever have a sermon...or poem...or lesson...or ANY message that is short? I think he missed the whole "to be concise is a skill and often shows true mastery of a topic". But I guess that would mean he would have to have mastery of something besides impregnating Esther and being the world's worst missionary.

[3splenty]

19 hours ago, Aine said:

And thanks y'all for being kind about my wall of text. That performance reminded me of this that me friend sent me the other day. She sent it lovingly but I do have severe ADHD (shout out to my Mum for giving birth to me and everyone finding out I was addicted to opioids and needed to be given methadone!- not that ADHD needs any reason to exist) and my stories do sometimes go like this and I do take most weekends off my meds to give my body a chance to eat. I'm always embarrassed by my meandering ramblings even though it is only sometimes rational to feel that way.

 

All 3 of my daughters have ADHD.  They've given me the chance to see the world in many ways I wouldn't have otherwise.  ❤️

[DarkAnts]

Yes John, live like Jesus. Because you know he was so exclusive about who he mingled with, and he never broke the Torah laws.... NOT. He broke many of the purity laws because they named a portion of the population as untouchable. He mingled with people from all classes. John is not living a biblical life.

[NoKidsAndCounting]

Sadly, there are several hundred recent deaths in The Congo right now due to Ebola.  John and his family are a whisper away in Zambia.

[formergothardite]

John's latest prayer letter is a rehash of all his FB posts except he added that at this time of gifts that people should remember that suffering is a gift comparable to salvation.  John says that the doctrine of suffering is ignored and reminds us that he has suffered in Zambia. 

The verse he uses to say that suffering is comparable to the gift of Salvation is this.

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For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake; Phillippians 1:29 

 

 

 

I don't see how that verse is saying what John says it says. 

[Flossie]

Oh, boo hoo.  John's suffering in Zambia, where his airplane turned out to be literally a hunk of rusty metal, he had to go months without an ice cube maker, his followers seem to keep waking up and running away, and he has to travel farther and farther out to find people willing to politely listen to his drivel.  The folks back home aren't sending enough money, and some sending churches have dropped him completely.

He's using Christmas to remind people he exists.  Send money!  Send gifts!  Suffer a little by doing without so you can help feed the endless ego of John, the idiot who dragged his family to the wilds of Zambia to teach Christianity to Christians.
 

[Petronella]

How do missionaries like John deal with verses like 2nd Thessalonians 3:10: "For even when we were with you, we gave you this rule: 'The one who is unwilling to work shall not eat.'"

It's literally about how missionaries need to support *themselves*.

I do understand raising money for extraordinary, one-time things like travel costs. I also understand if the missionary is doing a form of work as their mission, but it is work that is unpaid (like translation, or medical care, etc.). (I recall teachers raising money to teach in a school abroad for missionary children that relied on unpaid missionary teachers. Whether that's a good idea is a whole other discussion, but on its own terms I at least understand the reasoning behind why they were asking for financial support.)

But for missionaries whose whole thing is just evangelising? How is avoiding a job supposed to help? Wouldn't getting a job integrate them better in the community, and provide opportunities for relationship (and subsequent evangelising)? (Of course there may be visa issue or tax issues or legal issues with working in a foreign country, but I don't get the feeling John would get a job even if he could.)

I remember the worship leader from our old church in California. He left when he and a bunch of other Christians were moving together to a new town (meaning, like, a newly-created town, I think nearish highway 5 in an otherwise pretty undeveloped area). Their goal was to be salt and light to the other people in the town and considered themselves missionaries. He actually asked us for financial support. I was like, WTH? Move if you want to move but, like, *get a job*. And if they did get support, what would people think about all these weird, jobless Christians??

I bet John would say he is being a "full time pastor" but no he is not. What church exactly would he be pastoring? He doesn't have much of a congregation! We do give to our local church, which, as part of what it does, pays it's vicar a salary. But our vicar is doing a heckuva lot more than John.

 

[Lurky]

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Our 14 year old daughter Alatheia was witnessing to some JW's today on Outreach. Praise the Lord, they actually listened a little as she shared the Pure Word of God with them. Alatheia turns 15 next March, but it seems she's going on 20!

What a blessing and joy she is to our family. She loves the Lord, loves her family, and truly loves lost souls.

This reads like a Jill Rodrigues-esque advert for potential suitors, with an idea of marrying her off once she's 16.  Poor Alatheia, I hope she has some choice about what to do with her life.

[Aine]

On 12/21/2018 at 3:45 PM, Lurky said:

This reads like a Jill Rodrigues-esque advert for potential suitors, with an idea of marrying her off once she's 16.  Poor Alatheia, I hope she has some choice about what to do with her life.

I have always got the impression that Alatheia really holds up the family as Esther's biggest support. She has always seemed to be mature beyond her years with household tasks, cooking/baking, and caring for her younger siblings. I'd almost be happy for Alatheia to be out of there ASAP so the kid could have a break. Of course, I don't want her subject to a life like her mother has  I fear that Alatheia may end up on a life course like a lot of the eldest daughters of fundie families- the family's "helpmeet". This isn't meant to sound in any way shallow or dismissive of anyone but the thing that may help her get out of the Shrader household is that she's a gorgeous looking young woman (she was as a girl too, when most of us started following the Shraders). I hope that she will draw in some suitors to get her out of this mess; for her personality and abilities on the whole but also because that dimpled smile really does make you notice her. But being in Zambia...and with John being her father...I really doubt whether any man could ever live up to John Shrader in John Shrader's mind- and Alatheia will not be married off to anyone who does not meet every single one of John's impossible and idiosyncratic standards. She also has little opportunity to meet anyone that would even come close. We all know that even if John converted a Zambian man to become exactly like him, he'd never marry a daughter to an African man. ?

[Gobsmacked]

My wish is that Alethia can escape like the Pennington daughters managed. 

[sleepy_doggos]

How do missionaries like John deal with verses like 2nd Thessalonians 3:10: "For even when we were with you, we gave you this rule: 'The one who is unwilling to work shall not eat.'"

It's literally about how missionaries need to support *themselves*.

I do understand raising money for extraordinary, one-time things like travel costs. I also understand if the missionary is doing a form of work as their mission, but it is work that is unpaid (like translation, or medical care, etc.). (I recall teachers raising money to teach in a school abroad for missionary children that relied on unpaid missionary teachers. Whether that's a good idea is a whole other discussion, but on its own terms I at least understand the reasoning behind why they were asking for financial support.)

But for missionaries whose whole thing is just evangelising? How is avoiding a job supposed to help? Wouldn't getting a job integrate them better in the community, and provide opportunities for relationship (and subsequent evangelising)? (Of course there may be visa issue or tax issues or legal issues with working in a foreign country, but I don't get the feeling John would get a job even if he could.)

I remember the worship leader from our old church in California. He left when he and a bunch of other Christians were moving together to a new town (meaning, like, a newly-created town, I think nearish highway 5 in an otherwise pretty undeveloped area). Their goal was to be salt and light to the other people in the town and considered themselves missionaries. He actually asked us for financial support. I was like, WTH? Move if you want to move but, like, *get a job*. And if they did get support, what would people think about all these weird, jobless Christians??

I bet John would say he is being a "full time pastor" but no he is not. What church exactly would he be pastoring? He doesn't have much of a congregation! We do give to our local church, which, as part of what it does, pays it's vicar a salary. But our vicar is doing a heckuva lot more than John.

 

One of my (somewhat) friends grew up as a missionary kid in Mexico where they grifted as a family. She and her brother both moved to the US and started families, but have a tenuous grasp on a work ethic. At one point her husband and several other people were donating to her brother every month for 'missionary' work, but he was writing blog posts about fashion and traveling the US by car. She defended him because that's how her family did it.

It's ridiculous. She seemed to think that because they didn't have enough as kids and 'god provided', that their perceived or real suffering based on their parents' life choices justified demanding/hinting to others for things. Also righteousness. Those who spout things about living a lifestyle for god deserve to be supported.

The friendship became relatively over for me when she quit her job, got fired from her next job, didn't search for any others, complained about not having enough money (even though her husband was working, then quit to try to start his own business), grifted supplies for a home birth, then when the home birth didn't go well complained about the providers at the hospital. (not disrespecting that she felt she had a traumatic birth experience, that is very personal, just that she felt the need to disrespect those who saved her baby's life).

 

Tl;dr The entitlement is STRONG when you've been taught that everything you want to do is righteous because you believe in Jesus.

[sleepy_doggos]

I just realized that turned into kind of an assholeish rant. Sorry about that. I'm frustrated with the loss of friendship/trust over the years and it's coming out in passive aggressive ways [emoji40]

[Palimpsest]

On 12/21/2018 at 12:04 PM, formergothardite said:

John's latest prayer letter is a rehash of all his FB posts

He also added that Bro. Kennedy is back.  To my disappointment.  Bro. Kennedy went off to assistant pastor another church in Lusaka about 3 years ago.  We haven't heard a squeak about him from John since.  The head pastor there died and the church "changed direction" so Bro. Kennedy is back in Kafue.  In other words the church in Lusaka fired him

And no mention of Bro. Theophil.  Again.  Perhaps mentioning him would take attention away from John, but my hope is that he is back in Canada.

On 12/21/2018 at 1:44 PM, Petronella said:

(Of course there may be visa issue or tax issues or legal issues with working in a foreign country, but I don't get the feeling John would get a job even if he could.)

Yes, this is it.  I looked it up when Shrader first got there.  Missionaries not allowed to take paying jobs (it would take work away from nationals) and have to prove they have Sending Churches to pay all their debts before they are allowed to have resident's permits.

 

 

 

[Palimpsest]

On 12/20/2018 at 1:31 PM, NoKidsAndCounting said:

Sadly, there are several hundred recent deaths in The Congo right now due to Ebola.  John and his family are a whisper away in Zambia.

It looks really bad.  They are trying to contain it to North Kivu province but there are refugees fleeing over the borders all the time.  North Kivu is closer to Uganda and Rwanda and Burundi but Zambia is worried.  With good reason.

Ebola is spread through direct contact with a person or their body fluids -  usually in the later stages (like when they bleed out ).   

The Shraders can quarantine themselves if it looks like ebola is anywhere near their area.  But still.

[Gobsmacked]

IMO if Ebola hits Zambia ( praying that it doesn't) John will suddenly decide his Daddy needs lots of help and hot foot it back to Katy Texas ASAP. 

[Aine]

9 minutes ago, Gobsmacked said:

IMO if Ebola hits Zambia ( praying that it doesn't) John will suddenly decide his Daddy needs lots of help and hot foot it back to Katy Texas ASAP. 

The US Embassy will probably get them out of there quick smart, even if they have to pay back the airfares, if ebola gets close and becomes a significant risk to the Shraders. I bet that John would then frame that evacuation as Satan fighting him with ebola and his and his family's evacuations were all Satan taking them from spreading the word of God and they'll need to get back there asap (but only after the threat has passed obviously ?). 

[subsaharanafrica]

Oh joy. He’s linking the pulpit and pen. 

 

On a side note, I can’t really see the State Department evacuating people because of Ebola. They haven’t gotten anyone out of the DRC. They basically just advise against being somewhere. If they pull people out of an area it’s generally limited to State Department staff/families and possibly Peace Corps Volunteers. 

[Palimpsest]

I can see John jumping either way over Ebola.  Either he will stay on principle saying it his his job to die for the LORD and sacrifice his children for God.  Or he will run like a scared bunny rabbit.

But, to be clear, the Shraders are more at risk for malaria.  The people most at risk of contracting Ebola are in refugee camps, are hospital workers and family members caring for the sick, and mourners preparing bodies for burial.

It's not like John couldn't avoid contracting Ebola.  He might want to avoid preaching at funerals for a bit, but there is no f'ing way John would work at a refugee camp or care for the sick and dying.

[snickerz]

22 hours ago, Palimpsest said:

And no mention of Bro. Theophil.  Again.  Perhaps mentioning him would take attention away from John, but my hope is that he is back in Canada.

I have seen who I presume is Theophil on a couple of FB accts. Here's one from Whyte on Oct 27: 

[formergothardite]

5 minutes ago, snickerz said:

I have seen who I presume is Theophil on a couple of FB accts.

Interesting that he seems to be there but John is pretending he isn't. 

[Aine]

14 hours ago, subsaharanafrica said:

Oh joy. He’s linking the pulpit and pen. 

 

On a side note, I can’t really see the State Department evacuating people because of Ebola. They haven’t gotten anyone out of the DRC. They basically just advise against being somewhere. If they pull people out of an area it’s generally limited to State Department staff/families and possibly Peace Corps Volunteers. 

Thanks for clearing that up  I was under the impression that they would evacuate people if the need arose but come to think of it, the only person I'm aware of personally that was a US citizen and evacuated last time was a friend from undergrad in the Peace Corp that was in Liberia at the time. I'm fairly confident that the Australian government did evacuate some people at the time but Australia is usually pretty "on it" with keeping track of citizens and getting them out of danger zones, whether that is due to natural disasters, violence, disease, or just "lost everything". 

I was more making the point, tongue in cheek, that if Ebola did become a real threat to the Shrader's safety, you know it would be all about stopping John's "ministry" and there would be no mention of the actual people dying from the dreadful disease. Actually, John would probably think that Ebola was the victims' punishment for not following the 'John Shrader is always correct' form of Christianity. He would get so much glee out of Ebola coming into Zambia, no matter how many hundreds of miles from him, and it not touching his family because God/Jesus/Chosen One. He makes me sick. ? The Shraders would probably be safe anyway because I can't imagine John getting too close to anyone with the illness, even if they were willing to repent and convert on their deathbed. 

[Palimpsest]

On 12/24/2018 at 2:19 PM, snickerz said:

I have seen who I presume is Theophil on a couple of FB accts. Here's one from Whyte on Oct 27: 

Ah, thanks.  So Theophil was still there in October.  He's rather cute as well as rather nerdy.  Why do Fundies always seem to tie their ties too long? 

And John shared more of his wisdom on Christmas Eve.  Quoted here in case he deletes it with my sarcastic commentary.  All bolding mine.

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Down in attendance but Delightful Day!(

Tip: don't miss the very cute videos, after the pics, of our youngest Shrader kids quoting their verse, even little Isaiah trying!!)

Lovely to see little tiny children parroting what they don't understand.  

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Recently, we've been struggling to fit everybody in on the bus routes, the first one now leaves at 6:30 am since we included another village after the beautiful Kafue River, about 30 minutes away, almost 20 minutes from Muchuto, so the two morning routes take 2.5 hours to drive, going now to two villages to the South, and the four pick-up points here around Kafue.

I'm assuming the "bus" routes are John using his multiple vehicles to bus people from outlying suburbs  and villages in to the Kafue church.  Because the people of Kafue living close to him are wise to Johnny after the big blow up and refuse to attend his church.

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We didn't have that problem yesterday, but we had some precious new visitors, the family of Mattias came, all the way from Chipata (pictured), which is about ten hours away, and a new visitor from Nanduba (pronounced Non-doo-vah) village, Mr. Panji. His is the mud block house pictured and the thatched huts are from his village.

Mattias had his family visiting for Christmas and brought them to church.  Mr. Panji was hoping for Christmas cookies.  He was disappointed only to get a sermon.

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We were quite down in attendance, due to time of year, a funeral, etc., but though fewer, we had a really wonderful and sweet time in the Lord's House!

What, John missed haranguing mourners at a funeral?  Pigs are flying.  But no thoughts or prayers for the victims of Ebola.  Naturally.

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I took a break from our verse by verse through Galatians

And the congregation rejoiced.

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and preached a topical message on some of the "Gifts of the Bible." We looked at: The Gifts Given to Jesus, The Gift God Doesn't Want, and The Greatest Gifts Ever, both what can be received, as well as given.

But still got a very lengthy sermon.

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The highlight came with two beautiful baptisms after the services, having the great joy of baptizing our third-born Timothy, and also Teresa, a faithful young lady here. Both have brought forth "fruits meet for repentance," and it was a sweet time and so encouraging for our little church.

Did John ever mention Alatheia's baptism?   I can't remember.  Perhaps not because she's only a girl.

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Whyte, Paul and Arthur's mom also came, we've been praying for Agnes for more than four years now! She was coming faithfully, then was discouraged from coming, and also the SDA was pushing her to keep going there,

Those evil 7th Day Adventists can't have her!  They don't worship the right God!

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She listened carefully, and I am confident God had laid the second point specially on my heart for her, even though I did not know she was coming, as her husband was murdered through poisoning by his own sister almost five years ago.

I'm confused by this sentence.  Agnes's husband's sister poisoned  him 5 years ago so God could lay a second point specially on John's heart even though he didn't know Agnes was coming to church?  

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Please pray with us for her to have godly sorrow.

I hope she is coping with her grief at losing her husband.

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She knows she is not born again.

John has been sure to point that out to her.  She will burn in the Eternal Fires of Hell.  !!11!!!Eleventy!!1111!!

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I am crying out to God to do what we cannot do. Bring genuine conviction, "godly sorrow" and "grant repentance" to lost souls, and raise up a strong, biblical Baptist church here, pastored one day by a faithful and humble National pastor, with both having a heart and vision for the Great Commission, here in Zambia and also around the world.

Do Bros. Kennedy, Boyd and Scrivner still lack the heart for the Great Commission and the Dominionist vision?   Is this a hint that John is on his way out?  

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This is impossible humanly speaking.

Oh, mea culpa, I spoke too soon.  They all still need the White Man.

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I am not interested in churning out decisions and baptisms regularly simply for good missionary optics,

I learned my lesson over that the hard way.  All my boasting rang hollow when the original convert called me out.

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something very easy to accomplish here in Zambia, which is a highly saturated religious environment where a pragmatic mindset is so pervasive, and many will "prayer a prayer" over and over, even get baptized, "trying" yet again to see if this time it will "work."

Highly saturated indeed.  But with the "wrong kind" of Christianity!  According to John.

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Christ promised to "build" His church that He started in the first century, and I firmly believe that He must be the one to build His church here in Kafue, there in Mongu, and beyond.

And beyond.  Why not leave it up to Christ then?   John isn't needed there by his own admission.

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We are encouraged to see children, youth and adults eagerly and joyfully participating in the "Bible Sword Drills," and our "True Treasure Scripture Memory Program."

We are slowly seeing depth coming as we continue to disciple through weekly participation in Outreach, and youth, men's and women's Bible studies on Saturdays. One example was how Whyte and Boyd went on their own to witness to an older man for several hours last night.

We are seeing these men growing in wisdom and stature, both physically and spiritually, and in favor with God and man.

 

Yada, yada.  See we are doing something.

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We simply cannot adequately thank you for your faithful prayers for us this past year. We are COUNTING on those prayers for this coming year. Thank you for each every sacrifice made for us. For those who partner with us, we are deeply honored and humbled to represent you by going in your place to Africa.

And don't forget to send money!  If we weren't here in Africa to "represent" you, out of the goodness of our hearts and because we sacrifice SO MUCH, then you too would burn in the Eternal Fires of Hell.

[thoughtful]

[formergothardite]

6 hours ago, Palimpsest said:

  Agnes's husband's sister poisoned  him 5 years ago so God could lay a second point specially on John's heart even though he didn't know Agnes was coming to church?  

The whole thing is super confusing. And what the second point the Gift God doesn't want? I wish he would have explained exactly how this related to this poor woman who John decided to annoy.