Bates 24: Selling the ‘Happy Family’ Lifestyle

[scoutsadie]

On 8/15/2018 at 8:37 PM, Tim-Tom Biblethumper said:

Fun Fact:
There was a Nathan B. Forrest High School in Jacksonville, FL.  They just got around to changing the name in 2013. 
Both my parents are/were from Jacksonville, so I've done my research.  It was a hotbed during the civil rights movement.  With that in mind, naming a High School (in 1959 btw) Nathan B. Forrest seems like a blatant slap in the face to a black majority town (at the time).  

I grew up in Jax and still have family there, and yeah, the use of that name for the school was a reaction to the civil rights movement (didn't know that it was a majority black city at the time, but I've never looked it up and it sounds like you have done more reading about it, @Tim-Tom Biblethumper, so I'll take your word on it).

I was dismayed to see so much opposition to changing it when the school board finally did... but not super-surprised.  I've lived "up North" long enough to be floored every time I'm back by all of the rebel flags still displayed there. And yet some people still argue with me that "Florida isn't part of the South"... Jax still has a Robert E. Lee high school and a JEB Stuart middle school, as far as I know.

[Tim-Tom Biblethumper]

8 minutes ago, scoutsadie said:

I've lived "up North" long enough to be floored every time I'm back by all of the rebel flags still displayed there. And yet some people still argue with me that "Florida isn't part of the South"... Jax still has a Robert E. Lee high school and a JEB Stuart middle school, as far as I know.

I live in the Tampa Bay area and don't really consider it "the South".  But Jacksonville is more like South Georgia than Florida in my opinion.  
And yep, with the rebel flags....  I visited Jax a lot as a kid (60's and 70's) and was always amazed even being so young at the overt racism in that town.  I'm ashamed to say it was evident in my own family (not my parents thank god).  Parents both attended Andrew Jackson btw.

[formergothardite]

Gil and Kelly should be getting ready to speak at another IBLP conference. This will not show up in their social media or reality television show. I know social media and RT doesn't reflect reality, but it is kind of amazing how much their's leaves out. 

[Rachel333]

14 hours ago, scoutsadie said:

I grew up in Jax and still have family there, and yeah, the use of that name for the school was a reaction to the civil rights movement (didn't know that it was a majority black city at the time, but I've never looked it up and it sounds like you have done more reading about it, @Tim-Tom Biblethumper, so I'll take your word on it).

I was dismayed to see so much opposition to changing it when the school board finally did... but not super-surprised.  I've lived "up North" long enough to be floored every time I'm back by all of the rebel flags still displayed there. And yet some people still argue with me that "Florida isn't part of the South"... Jax still has a Robert E. Lee high school and a JEB Stuart middle school, as far as I know.

I now live in an area that definitely is not part of the South and yet I still see Confederate flags frequently. Unfortunately racist Confederacy worship doesn't mean that an area is part of the South.

[formergothardite]

13 minutes ago, Rachel333 said:

Unfortunately racist Confederacy worship doesn't mean that an area is part of the South.

Sadly this is so, so true. Miss Raquel, who is in Oregon, used to blog about her love of all things Confederate and how she would side with the South if she lived during the Civil war. 

[Pecansforeveryone]

I have heard there are patches of the Pennsylvannia countryside where you can see Confederate flags. I can't personally verify as I have never been to Pennsylavannia.

[nausicaa]

2 minutes ago, Pecansforeveryone said:

I have heard there are patches of the Pennsylvannia countryside where you can see Confederate flags. I can't personally verify as I have never been to Pennsylavannia.

I have, many times, and I can confirm that this is true. 

[singsingsing]

I have seen a confederate flag or two in Canada. People are idiots.

[JoylessAnna]

5 hours ago, singsingsing said:

I have seen a confederate flag or two in Canada. People are idiots.

I was about to chime in and share that I’ve seen Confederate flags in Central/South Jersey and upstate NY. But Canada?!

[mstee]

I’m in Ohio and there’s a house with a confederate flag down the road from me (actually a few houses on my road have them) . I know a lot of people see it as “southern heritage” but to me it’s just a blatant sign of racism, especially in a state that’s not southern.  I’ve contemplated throwing eggs but don’t want to waste perfectly good eggs. I’ve also seen them driving through Pennsylvania. 

[ariel9]

I live in Michigan, saw rebel flags in our Upper Peninsula (U.P.).

[BlessaYourHeart]

Think Canada is shocking for confederate flags? Well let me blow your mind. I live in Northern Ireland, UK and the guy that lives up the street from me has a confederate flag flying from his shed... he also plays native Pan Flute (is that what it’s called?) from his kitchen. I think he’s a little confused 

[WhoompThereItIs]

You'd be surprised. I'm in an interracial marriage, and we've gotten more dirty looks in New England than we ever did in the south.

[Naughty&nice]

This is really shocking.  I haven't laid eyes on a confederate flag since I was a teenager.  I had no idea you could find one north of the mason dixon line.  Exactly what kind of statement are you trying to make flying a confederate flag in Canada???

 

[formergothardite]

2 hours ago, Naughty&nice said:

  Exactly what kind of statement are you trying to make flying a confederate flag in Canada???

A racist one that they say isn't racist. They claim it is about freedom and rebelling against oppressive authority, except the flag represents freedom and rebellion for only white folks. A little tidbit they avoid saying out loud. 

[lumpentheologie]

People fly confederate flags in Alaska too. I think they somehow see it as fitting in with the libertarian/anti-government stance that's very common there.  

Not to say it's not still racist. 

[sparrow]

On 8/17/2018 at 3:44 PM, Pecansforeveryone said:

I have heard there are patches of the Pennsylvannia countryside where you can see Confederate flags. I can't personally verify as I have never been to Pennsylavannia.

I can confirm. I live in such a place. 

 

[bal maiden]

On 8/18/2018 at 8:45 AM, BlessaYourHeart said:

Think Canada is shocking for confederate flags? Well let me blow your mind. I live in Northern Ireland, UK and the guy that lives up the street from me has a confederate flag flying from his shed... he also plays native Pan Flute (is that what it’s called?) from his kitchen. I think he’s a little confused 

I've seen them around in the mainland UK too. I try to give the benefit of the doubt, and assume people like it in the same way that they like/display other Americana here, but maybe I am being too generous! But I do think we are fairly ignorant of US history, in particular race relations, over here. In academia I've met plenty of people with a surprisingly level of ignorance and misunderstanding of the topic (and yet still have that superiority complex that we are better/less racist/more intelligent/less Trumpy etc etc).

[Flippp]

I'm not sure if this has been previously addressed, but has anyone seen the information for Bringing up Bates? Don't hate me, but I've bought some of their episodes on Amazon Prime and it says starring: Gill, Kelly Jo, and Lawson and also lists Erin as a supporting actor. Anyone know what this means (if anything?).

[AliceInFundyland]

@Flippp I don’t think it means much of anything. I’ve watched a fair amount of reality tv through Amazon. They have to put some name in the slot you know? Maybe they ask UP, maybe they scan episodes for who looks prominent...  It’s just filler.

[just_ordinary]

18 hours ago, bal maiden said:

I've seen them around in the mainland UK too. I try to give the benefit of the doubt, and assume people like it in the same way that they like/display other Americana here, but maybe I am being too generous! But I do think we are fairly ignorant of US history, in particular race relations, over here. In academia I've met plenty of people with a surprisingly level of ignorance and misunderstanding of the topic (and yet still have that superiority complex that we are better/less racist/more intelligent/less Trumpy etc etc).

I agree to some extent. I actually don’t think people really understand what it stands for (and my fellow citizens should definitely know better- we have a set of our own flags and symbols who are forbidden for very good reasons). But stupidity/ignorance is no excuse.

American History is only covered in its relations to Europe (Columbus, Cold War) in school. The parts about slaves and Martin Luther King etc. only take up a very small portion but I think you get a good impression. Which I can understand. Every country has its own history and big events to focus on. 

Since Bush and definitely now with Trump you see almost no American flags anymore. Not even as print on scarfs etc (which was very popular for some time). People shifted their view from the USA back to the European countries and look there for ideas, fashion/interior, economically or sociologically improvements etc.

[HavetheyheardofBeyonce]

I've seen them around in the mainland UK too. I try to give the benefit of the doubt, and assume people like it in the same way that they like/display other Americana here, but maybe I am being too generous! But I do think we are fairly ignorant of US history, in particular race relations, over here. In academia I've met plenty of people with a surprisingly level of ignorance and misunderstanding of the topic (and yet still have that superiority complex that we are better/less racist/more intelligent/less Trumpy etc etc).

Even seen in NZ! I saw one covering a broken window, with couch outside and decided it was a uni student’s flat. I’m guessing they might sell in Americana Stores here and possibly $2 shops? Hard to guess what their intent behind the window covering was. Possible they knew the meaning (racists here too) but in NZ American history only taught where teachers elect to teach that unit within the optional history course in senior school so not widely known or understood.

[Melissa1977]

In Spain, some Harley Davison motorbike owners wear jackets with confederate flags on the back or put the flags to decor the motorbike. Despite they say they wear it as an symbol of freedom, some of these people are racists and far right and also wear other questionable symbols. This said, others just wear because they like it, are ideologically neutral and see it as a normal flag.

[Chocolatecheesecake]

So about American flags in other counties: I'm Austrian and I have certainly seen some American flags around. (people bring them from vacations in the US, or they remind them of movies, or they just think they look stylish etc.)  And I think some people might get a confederate flag for the exact same reason without having any idea what it means. I personally didn't learn ANYTHING about the confederacy in school, the only reason I know about it now, is because I spent a year in the US and because I am generally pretty interested in the US. I'm pretty sure, that, especially among the less educated, tons of people here have no idea, that a confederate flag could be considered racist and many don't even know anything about the American civil war. 

[Rachel333]

6 hours ago, HavetheyheardofBeyonce said:

Even seen in NZ! I saw one covering a broken window, with couch outside and decided it was a uni student’s flat. I’m guessing they might sell in Americana Stores here and possibly $2 shops? Hard to guess what their intent behind the window covering was. Possible they knew the meaning (racists here too) but in NZ American history only taught where teachers elect to teach that unit within the optional history course in senior school so not widely known or understood.

If it was a student flat it could also be from an American student. There are lots of them in NZ (I used to be one)!

I was actually pretty shocked by the casual racism in NZ. I had never before heard anti-Semitic phrases used casually before, and at costume parties I saw so many people in blackface.  Obviously blackface still happens in the US but I've never actually seen it in person anywhere but in NZ.