Seewalds 33: Schroedinger’s Uterus

[TatiFish9]

On 4/30/2018 at 8:25 AM, SilverBeach said:

It is very sad. If I may ask, why did you stop attending the open and affirming church?

[···]

I am heterosexual but I feel strongly that this is a justice issue. Just like some whites stood up during the civil rights era, hetero Christians have to stand up for our non-hetero brothers and sisters. I have not endeared myself to the church leadership by expressing what I have posted here to them, but so be it. Right is right.

We moved away. I was heartbroken because it took me too many years to find a church that combined my spiritual needs with my social beliefs. 

I agreed with your post so much, I believe exactly the same. I don't blame you for wanting to distance yourself because of your church's views. My current church is affirming but not open in my opinion. There are only straight folks in leadership and I doubt they would openly marry a gay couple. But affirming is a start. As my friend says, if all the people who fight for change leave the church, then things are surely to stay the same. It's not easy, though. I remember when I finally decided to defend gay rights within the church to my fundie-lite family. I was shaking. I started to cry. I was scared as heck. But I refused to hide my beliefs any longer. The response was as expected. lol Suddenly, a barrage of scriptures flew from everywhere. I was shot down to pieces because, I wasn't prepared. If we are to face our congregations, we have to be ready to show them exactly where they're seeing wrongly.

That is why I am happy for recommendations like the books above. 

 

[Quiverfull of Critters]

I'm a long-time lurker but delurked to join this thread drift. We are in a point of major stress in my home. Both of my teen daughters are identifying as LGBTQ and my husband is really struggling as it is in direct conflict to his faith. I grew up UCC and have a gay sister, though as a mom, it is challenging for me to think that both of my kiddos are in pain as a result of their dad's belief system. My kids now state they have no faith.

This is a major conflict in my life and I'm standing with my kiddos to ensure they will always have a home where they and the people they will one day love will be welcome. I'm glad for book recommendations. I'm glad for anything that will shake DH from these unbending beliefs that my separate him from his family.

I come here at night to giggle. I'm glad you are all here.

[Jinder Roles]

@Quiverfull of Critters Welcome to FJ. Your daughters are lucky to have a supportive parent like you to help them through a difficult time. I hope your husband comes around eventually. 

 

[SilverBeach]

9 hours ago, ModestisHottest said:

If anyone is looking for a book that addresses homosexuality in the Bible from an evangelical perspective I highly recommend God and the Gay Christian by Matthew Vines!!

This is an outstanding read.

[Bethella]

10 hours ago, TeaELSee said:

I thought it was a joke too! Is it pronounced he is the way? In my head it always reads Heist away.

is there a nickname?  I have too many questions!

They pronounce it Hi-stha-way and there isn't a nickname.

[neurogirl]

Seewald boys looking cute. (Shame about the cult...though I have some hope)

Spoiler

 

 

[Melissa1977]

I know IG often doesn't depict reality, but I feel that Seewald kids are the luckiest of the whole Duggar grandchild pack.

[TatiFish9]

@Quiverfull of Critters welcome! Hoping you all can win your hub over. I am glad you are resolved in fighting for your children's long-term happiness and health. I believe that will make all the difference.  

[Sky with diamonds]

7 hours ago, Quiverfull of Critters said:

I'm a long-time lurker but delurked to join this thread drift. We are in a point of major stress in my home. Both of my teen daughters are identifying as LGBTQ and my husband is really struggling as it is in direct conflict to his faith. I grew up UCC and have a gay sister, though as a mom, it is challenging for me to think that both of my kiddos are in pain as a result of their dad's belief system. My kids now state they have no faith.

This is a major conflict in my life and I'm standing with my kiddos to ensure they will always have a home where they and the people they will one day love will be welcome. I'm glad for book recommendations. I'm glad for anything that will shake DH from these unbending beliefs that my separate him from his family.

I come here at night to giggle. I'm glad you are all here.

For you  and your kiddos . 

[DillyDally]

5 hours ago, Melissa1977 said:

I know IG often doesn't depict reality, but I feel that Seewald kids are the luckiest of the whole Duggar grandchild pack.

I have a similar feeling (based on the very limited glimpse into their life). But the very first thing that came to my mind when I saw Jessa's post was that she manages to portrait all those happy family feel good vibes without the endless "best hubby" hashtags that Jill always uses. Everything's always so.. stilted with her, whereas Jessa's posts have a much more "natural" feeling.

[viii]

My parents and I left the church we had been a part of for 14 years due to the difference in beliefs regarding sexuality. This had been my mom's church when she was growing up, the place my parents were married, and the church I was dedicated in. We left it when I was 3 to join a cult, but once we broke free from that in 2003, we went back to the original church and were there for 14 years before having to leave. It was such a tough decision, but at the end of the day they made it so simple for us. My dad was an elder, and was extremely involved. He dedicated so much of his time to the church and the congregation. We were without a pastor, and so he stepped up and filled a lot of those roles. 

However, my sister is married to a woman, and they have two year old twins. They were coming for a two week visit, and the church told my dad if he let my sister and her family stay at his house, they would remove him as an elder and he'd be under religious supervision. 

Boom. Gone. And I've never been happier. We've found a church that is so accepting of our family dynamic, and one that is willing to work with differences. It's been such a healthy change. 

[Pecansforeveryone]

Thank you all for sharing your stories. It's this homophobia that drives a lot of support for the Duggars. Now matter what they say, many of their followers probably aren't chomping at the bit to shun all higher education, worldly influences, and have a dozen plus children for children. Keep LGBT from marrying and out of their churches? Oh yeah, they are all on board for that one. Heartbreaking. 

[VelociRapture]

1 hour ago, DillyDally said:

I have a similar feeling (based on the very limited glimpse into their life). But the very first thing that came to my mind when I saw Jessa's post was that she manages to portrait all those happy family feel good vibes without the endless "best hubby" hashtags that Jill always uses. Everything's always so.. stilted with her, whereas Jessa's posts have a much more "natural" feeling.

I think choice of spouse plays a big role here. Derick is awkward. He’s argumentative. He seems incapable of getting on the same level as his kids or having fun with them and he has a bad habit of sharing his worst beliefs for public consumption. Ben, on the other hand, is a big kid*. He’s goofy. He’s fun. He understands how to interact with his sons in a healthy manner and has mostly learned to keep his mouth firmly shut on topics that may spark controversy.

Jessa is very good at social media, but she’s also extremely lucky to have a husband who is easy on the eyes and has a decent personality. If Ben had Derick’s personality then I don’t think she’d have had quite the same type of social media success as she’s enjoyed so far. If Derick had Ben’s personality then I think Jill may have had a bit of an easier time - though I do think she’d still be struggling because it’s Jill and she just struggles with making appropriate/decent posts so much.

*This wasn’t meant in a bad way. Being the biggest kid in the room is just a way of saying he understands how to play and relax and have fun with tiny humans. 

[justpassingby]

10 hours ago, Melissa1977 said:

I know IG often doesn't depict reality, but I feel that Seewald kids are the luckiest of the whole Duggar grandchild pack.

I saw in one IG video Henry was playing with a doll house. I don't think any of the other Duggar grand sons would be allowed to do such things for fear it would make them gay or trans.

[singsingsing]

[potato]

I haven't been to the Dillards thread to see if someone posted this already (it's finals week and that's way too much to wade through right now), but Jill posted a picture on their site and it looks like Jessa's in pants.  Photo under the spoiler:

Spoiler

[karen77]

3 minutes ago, potato said:

I haven't been to the Dillards thread to see if someone posted this already (it's finals week and that's way too much to wade through right now), but Jill posted a picture on their site and it looks like Jessa's in pants.  Photo under the spoiler:

  Reveal hidden contents

SHe's got a tunic over that

[potato]

1 minute ago, karen77 said:

SHe's got a tunic over that

Ah, you're right.  I just thought that was a shadow.  Oh well!

[motelmum]

3 hours ago, singsingsing said:

I was a little surprised to see this pop up on my insatgram feed (is that the correct terminology?)

I am rapt that the little one is reading Dr Seuss but I should have thought that was a little "worldly" for him,

[PainfullyAware]

Just to give some hope I was raised in the United Church of Canada (like a Methodist/Presbyterian amalgamation) and was shocked as a teenager to hear things like "christians are anti-lgbt". I genuinely didn't think more than a few extreme denominations were, because my experience was the opposite. Our minister married his partner and only a handful of pearl clutchers muttered about it. So, it's possible!

Jessa and Ben seem to have a sense of humour, and be willing to act a little goofy. Jessa is willing to laugh at herself in the side interviews on the show. It's so different from Jill and Derick. Apart from extremely corny jokes that they smile at, those two never really laugh out loud. It says a lot about their personalities and why Jill has trouble on social media. Good posts are often funny and/or cute- they also help someone seem authentic.

[Melissa1977]

10 hours ago, justpassingby said:

I saw in one IG video Henry was playing with a doll house. I don't think any of the other Duggar grand sons would be allowed to do such things for fear it would make them gay or trans.

Josh boys had been depicted playing with toy kitchens, and also Jeb and Judson Bates. Carson has dolls (I think Erin said they were his own dolls, not his sister's). They don't seem to have problems with toddlers playing whatever toy. I wonder if they're relaxing, because I doubt the older kids (Josh, Zach, etc) were allowed to play dolls.

At what point dolls are becoming banned for boys in these families? At 4 years, at 5? Unfortunately, it's not only a fundie issue. A lot of no religious parents I know are uncomfortable with big boys playing "girl toys".

[BabyFactoryClosing]

4 hours ago, PainfullyAware said:

Just to give some hope I was raised in the United Church of Canada (like a Methodist/Presbyterian amalgamation) and was shocked as a teenager to hear things like "christians are anti-lgbt". I genuinely didn't think more than a few extreme denominations were, because my experience was the opposite. Our minister married his partner and only a handful of pearl clutchers muttered about it. So, it's possible!

 

My husband was raised UCOC and had exactly the same experience. We met at a place where our respective groups (his UCOC and my Southern Baptist church) were basically staying at the same base and I had a hopeless crush on him so I asked him to come across the aisle and sit in on our nightly Bible study. Unfortunately (or fortunately considering how it worked out) the topic that night ended up being homosexuality in the church. After about ten minutes he literally stood up and was like "wait wait wait, you people still exist?! I thought this was a joke!" And stormed out. I was MORTIFIED and furious at the speaker from my church blah blah blah. Needless to say we got married and I got out of my parents house and never looked back at church. We do still visit the UCOC when travel though wonderful people them.

[Iamtheway]

12 hours ago, singsingsing said:

That kid is adorable. 

4 hours ago, Melissa1977 said:

At what point dolls are becoming banned for boys in these families? At 4 years, at 5? Unfortunately, it's not only a fundie issue. A lot of no religious parents I know are uncomfortable with big boys playing "girl toys".

A boy with a doll? The horror. He might develop empathy and maybe become a good dad someday ... 

[melon]

1 hour ago, Iamtheway said:

That kid is adorable. 

A boy with a doll? The horror. He might develop empathy and maybe become a good dad someday ... 

I don't see anything wrong with boys playing with dolls.I used to get catalogs,my father called them "wish books",but they had dolls that were anatomic.I thought there was nothing wrong with those,either...could possibly help learn about differences,especially in a family,like mine..I didn't have any girls,just boys.

Well,my grandmother said those were "embarassing",and that male children should not play with girl dolls.She told me how when she had my father,in 1931,her mother in law bought him  Raggedy Ann and Andy dolls.My grandfather said his son would never play with girl dolls.My grandmother gave the Raggedy Ann away.I didn't see what the big deal was,and I still don't see what the big deal was.

[Chewing Gum]

21 hours ago, DillyDally said:

I have a similar feeling (based on the very limited glimpse into their life). But the very first thing that came to my mind when I saw Jessa's post was that she manages to portrait all those happy family feel good vibes without the endless "best hubby" hashtags that Jill always uses. Everything's always so.. stilted with her, whereas Jessa's posts have a much more "natural" feeling.

Agreed! Jessa is more of a type that films her boys and it happens to end up on Insta, while Jill films soley for Insta. Kinda feel sad for Jill because you really can’t get better at that if it’s not natural.