IBLP Calls Cops on Bill Gothard for Trespass

[Palimpsest]

9 hours ago, formergothardite said:

John Shrader was raised in ATI and I bet he adored the parts about punishing the natives. 

It does explain a lot about Shrader.

That Otto Koning man is dreadful.   His pineapple story isn't in the least bit funny.  

[formergothardite]

I watched that clip and it never dawned on me that he let children die over the pineapples but he accepted no blame and instead blamed the natives. This story is truly more horrible than I remembered.  It sounded like there was something cultural that he did not understand and wasn't really surrounded by thieves. 

[formergothardite]

Alfred got a reply and the person points out that Gothard isn't even following his own teachings. 

Spoiler

I read this 3 times to get if right. First of all, the judge did not “dismiss” the case, the plaintiffs voluntarily suspended their case and have a year to re-file if they so choose. Next, if Bill wanted to deliver “papers” to the board, in particular Dr. L. then he could have always sent them to him personally by either registered or certified mail, which has to be signed for. The idea that he would drive 14 hours out of the way to attend a conference that he earlier was told he was totally banned from and then expect that they would let him stay because he drove 14 hours out of the way for, is totally naïve and even bizarre on Bill’s part. The reason you are giving for Bill going are more based on sentimentality and entitlement. He is going because he just misses everyone? So drive 14 hours out of the way was a gamble that backfired on Bill. Is IBLP God’s or is it Bill’s? Did God build this or did Bill? The attitude that you are reporting seems to be that IBLP is Bill’s and he is entitled. It also looks like Bill’s submission teaching to authority came back to haunt him in a big way here and now the tables are turned on Bill.
Finally, if people miss Bill, want Bill etc. there is nothing that stops them from visiting his web page, your blog, buying his new books, sending him emails, visiting him etc. So if there is a big army of people that want Bill, they still can go to him. Nothing prevents this.

I see this whole thing as tragic and sad. But it was totally preventable because Bill didn’t have to drive 14 hours out of way to go to something he has been disband from and I agree with the Board’s concern that this was done to divide IBLP and cause strife. Emotionality and sentimentality are not good reasons to do this.

Alfred still seems to think that Gothard is entitled to still be involved, despite this going against the teachings of IBLP and Gothard.

Spoiler

Well, thar be a number of strongly held opinions. :-). We would strongly discount any notion that the plaintiffs had a choice in dropping the suit. At that point it was “Advantage Team Bill” in some stunning ways, and they knew it. As keeps being pointed out . . . Three (3) major law firms investing a half million dollars only to walk away with . . . Nothing, not even a chance at a trial? You are naive if you think that was “voluntary”.

Bill has asked for a meeting with the Board for . . . Over four years, only to be rebuffed over and over. This was one of the few times where he would actually have direct access to them, all in one place. And, yes, as the founder and 50 year President of IBLP, the one that oversaw the purchase of Big Sandy, the one that, apparently, a great number of ATI members believe is still running things – Yes, yes we do believe he is entitled. Were you a member of any number of the pro-IBLP groups, you would understand that a bit more clearly, about what ATI members even know.

Anyway, let the record reflect that this was not a matter that we had any hand in, so we we are free to report and draw our own conclusions, just as you are.

 

[Palimpsest]

Don't we all just love Alfred's use of the royal "we."

"We" is actually Alfie and his computer.  In a dark basement.  Wanking off at memories of the good old days with Gothard at the helm.  If Alfred were not so detestable he would be pathetic.

Rob War and Larne (both from RG I believe) are very dedicated to trying to set Alfred straight.  It is a losing battle but I admire their persistence in trying to correct his fantasies.

[Palimpsest]

38 minutes ago, formergothardite said:

I watched that clip and it never dawned on me that he let children die over the pineapples but he accepted no blame and instead blamed the natives. This story is truly more horrible than I remembered.  It sounded like there was something cultural that he did not understand and wasn't really surrounded by thieves. 

What did he do - mug the women to get his diaper pins and can opener back?  They saw them as decorative items that he was wasting on a baby and leaving lying carelessly around.  

He says he was in rural Papua New Guinea where historically and culturally among the indigenous peoples many items, and certainly crops, were regarded as communal property.  Worked on together and shared together, with an honor code of not taking more than you need for yourself.  

You know, like in Acts IV:  31- 37.  Fundies never seem to read that part of the Bible.  Koning and his missus were behaving like Ananias and Sapphira in Acts V.  They should have laid down and given up the ghost.

[Palimpsest]

I remembered where I saw that clip of Gabe Cleator.  I continue to keep my beady eye on this not as young as he looks rising star.

Someone hand me a tranquilizer gun, please.

 

[Howl]

I wonder if that fake potted tree in the background is passed around for all of these types of youtube videos, like there's some rent-a- fake-background-tree company. 

[formergothardite]

Gabe is annoying as hell. How does anyone listen to him?

More comments on DG. Pam is wondering if perhaps the BoD uncovered more than what was revealed. 

Quote

I’m wondering if the boards investigation done a couple years ago, which I think was not given to the public, might contain information that would justify the boards current actions. Back when that investigation was done, it was thought of as a biased report that let Bill off the hook. But now, I think there must have been some credible accounts of wrong doing. I sure would like to see the investigation documents. As much as I admire Alfred’s support of his friend (Bill), I think in this case love is blind. There is way too many stories about Bill to discard them all. And even when someone is not held accountable in a court of law, think OJ, it really doesn’t mean they are innocent. The Boards behavior leads me to believe there is more to this than we know. I hope they do provide a statement and provide details or information supporting their decision to keep Bill out of IBLP.

Alfred insists that nothing happened. 

Spoiler

We have actively sought for access to those documents for four years. Indeed, in our role to help Bill reconcile it made complete sense. We went to the Board and asked for their “worst”. We were given two items to work on and meticulously investigated, going back and forth between Bill and individuals. One involved a woman who had already reconciled with Bill, another involved a single case which overtly did not involve any accusation of malfeasance on Bill’s part, but a sequence that the Board had asked Bill to abstain from, the “appearance if evil”. The details Bill provided made sense to us as to why this might represent an exception, involving a potential suicide. We took the added information back to the Board and received no further communication.

It is time to bring the hidden things into the light. It is impossible to address, fix things that are held as secrets. If a public declaration is made that Bill is evil due to “secret information”, there is no righteous way for this to be done if he is not allowed to understand the charges, let alone mount a defense. Nothing in the Scriptures or common practice suggests this is correct, barring national secrets, etc.

 

[Palimpsest]

Well, this may be one of the very few times I agree with Alfred.

It really is time to bring things into the light.  Now let us see all the letters to the Board of Directors expressing concern about Bill Gothard's private meetings with young women.  Let's see all the internal memos about Bill "avoiding the appearance of evil," and how about they come clean about all the rape charges.  And, while we are at it, let's see all the employee records because the staff did evil things too.  Let's see David Gill, Sr.'s full report, flawed though it was! 

Let's hang out the dirty laundry for once and for all so the cult is exposed for what it is.

And I am moved to song:  To the tune of "You Are the Light of the World" from Godspell (apologies to whoever wrote the lyrics)

♪♫♬

Bill was the founder of the cult!
Bill was the founder of the cult!
But when that founder faced a lawsuit,
It lost all power for the old brute.
You've got to stop molesting to be the founder of the cult!

Bill was the founder of the cult
Bill was the founder of the cult
But when that cult dumped it's savior
It ain't got much in its favor
You can't hide rape and be a good neighbor!

(chorus)
So let your crimes be exposed to the world 
Let your crimes be exposed
So that the victims will have some redress
They need much help to feel fine (and you can quit the whine!)

You are the cult of the Bill
You are the cult of the Bill
But if that cult has hidden sin
It's kinda needs to be in the bin
You've got to expose crime to get rid of the grime!

(chorus)
So let your crimes be exposed to the world 
Let your crimes be exposed.
So that the victims will have some redress
They will never feel fine (until you quit the whine!)♪♫♬

 

[formergothardite]

1 hour ago, Palimpsest said:

It really is time to bring things into the light.  Now let us see all the letters to the Board of Directors expressing concern about Bill Gothard's private meetings with young women.  Let's see all the internal memos about Bill "avoiding the appearance of evil," and how about they come clean about all the rape charges.  And, while we are at it, let's see all the employee records because the staff did evil things too.  Let's see David Gill, Sr.'s full report, flawed though it was! 

Alfred and Bill might not be too happy if everything was brought to the light. 

Some pictures from the conference. I haven't found anyone who attended complaining about how Gothard was whisked away and banned. 

Spoiler

 

Spoiler

Alfred's son seemed to think the conference went well.

Ashley, the one who managed to escape marriage to awful Nathan Bates was there.

 

 

[refugee]

I thought I had read all the stuff at RG. Rape? I don’t remember hearing about that. Bill, or was this his brother in the 80s?

[Palimpsest]

7 hours ago, refugee said:

I thought I had read all the stuff at RG. Rape? I don’t remember hearing about that. Bill, or was this his brother in the 80s?

It is not all BG's actions.  There was a culture of sexual abuse at IBLP, including malfeasance by other members of staff.  That's why separate charges were made against the BOD, past and present, for negligence and failure to protect.  From memory, there were 3 allegations of rape.  One alleged against BG and allegedly 2 by staff members.  Many instances of physical harm, child sexual abuse and molestation (including incest), false imprisonment, and so on.

Trigger warning.  

The lawsuit is public record and the third amended version with 17 plaintiffs can be found here at HA.  https://homeschoolersanonymous.files.wordpress.com/2016/08/third-amended-complaint-filed-08-18-2016-1.pdf

Libby Anne's summary of the initial allegations when only 10 plaintiffs had been identified: https://homeschoolersanonymous.org/2016/01/09/a-summary-of-allegations-against-bill-gothard-and-iblp/ 

[formergothardite]

Larne Gabriel knows Gothard very well. This is part of his reply to Alfred

Spoiler

Knowing how Bill liked to soak up the admirations of his followers I can see him lingering at registration and soaking up the “love and affection” of “his followers”. Than a slow walk to the front for all to see, as the murmur of the crowd increased and “his followers” flocked to give him the “love and affection” they feel he deserved. Only to be rebuffed by that “nasty BOD”. Now “his followers” being aghast at the treatment their hero was receiving. Even as I write this post, I’m sure there are other computers are feverously being assaulted as emails, texts and letters are buzzing over the airways calling for the replacement of the BOD and the return of their hero to his “rightful” throne or they will withdraw from ATI. Meanwhile Bill is back at his home on Arlington Ave, humbly siting by his phone waiting for the anticipated call. Acting dejected and hurt he knows his plan far exceeded his expectations. 

Someone named Beth thinks the BoD didn't really want the job(they did)

Spoiler

We all know that the board is not in it for the money. Personally, I have my own issues with the board because of certain events, but that put aside, they took on a nasty job that no one would naturally want (step into the fire?) and were handed a platter of years worth of junk to deal with. If anything, they’re doing their job out of obligation because someone has to do it and they still feel the message is worth preserving. The idea that they’re doing it to get rich is ludicrous and y’all know it.

I like this comment.

Spoiler

My favorite thing about this whole post is how you titled it like “The Devil Went Down to Georgia.” But you mean Texas, of course. And instead of a soul to steal, perhaps Bill’s looking for some gold to steal?  Or at least take back from the Paine-Bates family that appears to be sitting on the pot of gold that was Bill’s publishing empire. I’m sure he also wanted to be seen by the people there as well, as he probably misses their applause. Which, together with the pictures you posted, brings another solution to mind. Bill could move to Branson and play the doting old man in “Shepherd of the Hills”! It’s a great fit.

 

[FundieFarmer]

On 4/18/2018 at 4:53 PM, HereticHick said:

Big Sandy hosted a "church security" seminar last week. I'm sure the solution to church security is more guns for errrbody!

 

https://www.news-journal.com/news/local/speaker-urges-preparedness-in-church-security-training-seminar/article_5b93ab26-3f52-11e8-8bb2-6fff4d373c61.html

I don't hate the concept of protecting churches– in fact, DHS.gov has a whole manual on protecting houses of worship of any denomination. However, I think if you're going militia-style on it and not actually studying up on best practices, then you're dumb. 

I'm also skeptical of laypeople trying to implement these systems with no qualified support. 

[HereticHick]

Apologies if this has already been posted:

http://www.intouchweekly.com/posts/bill-gothard-iblp-159137

Fundies Are Allegedly Turning on Disgraced Duggar Minister Bill Gothard

May 1, 2018 11:23 am

By Megan Heintz

[Palimpsest]

5 hours ago, formergothardite said:

I like this comment.

5 hours ago, formergothardite said:

My favorite thing about this whole post is how you titled it like “The Devil Went Down to Georgia.” But you mean Texas, of course.

 

So do I.  And there is a fantastic song parody opportunity there.  Anyone?

 

9 minutes ago, HereticHick said:

Apologies if this has already been posted:

http://www.intouchweekly.com/posts/bill-gothard-iblp-159137

Fundies Are Allegedly Turning on Disgraced Duggar Minister Bill Gothard

May 1, 2018 11:23 am

By Megan Heintz

Some differences to Alfred's account there.  He claimed Levendusky wasn't available and it was just Bates and Paine,

Quote

Those present at the conference took to social media to document what went down. "Bill Gothard showed up at an ATI family conference today," one person wrote. "He was escorted away by the police." Another added, "Bill Gothard is trying to be reconciled with IBLP, but is being rejected."

Not exactly an outpouring of love and support for Gothard there.  Just factual reports.

And Amy Duggar has never been Gothardite so I don't really care what she has tweeted.  

Quote

The Duggar's connection to the controversial leader took center stage in the fallout after Josh Duggar's molestation scandal, as he went to "counseling" with Gothard.

Nah.  He was "counseled" by doing manual labor in an IBLP building in Little Rock, not directly by Gothard, back when he was a kid.  The Jesus counseling he got as an adult was IBLP affiliated, but again not Gothard himself.

[JermajestyDuggar]

38 minutes ago, HereticHick said:

Apologies if this has already been posted:

http://www.intouchweekly.com/posts/bill-gothard-iblp-159137

Fundies Are Allegedly Turning on Disgraced Duggar Minister Bill Gothard

May 1, 2018 11:23 am

By Megan Heintz

The headline includes the Duggars in order to get clicks but Gil is the one featured in the story as one of the three men who called the police on him. I bet Gil is not pleased with this story getting out into mainstream mags (not just websites about fundies). He tries to curate such a perfect big family image on UP. 

[formergothardite]

47 minutes ago, HereticHick said:

Apologies if this has already been posted:

http://www.intouchweekly.com/posts/bill-gothard-iblp-159137

Fundies Are Allegedly Turning on Disgraced Duggar Minister Bill Gothard

May 1, 2018 11:23 am

By Megan Heintz

There is someone with Trump hair listening to Gothard in that picture! I wish it had made more of a connection between Gil Bates and Bringing Up Bates. It sounds like that perhaps there weren't people lined up to shake his hand like he claimed. 

[CaricatureQualities]

 

36 minutes ago, Palimpsest said:

So do I.  And there is a fantastic song parody opportunity there.  Anyone?

Bill Gothard went down to Texas (The Devil went down to Georgia)

Bill Gothard went down to Texas,

Looking for souls to steal back

from the dirty board

for his personal horde

and he would give anything a crack

So he got a young man and he formed a plan to drive all day and night

until they reached his destination

and he'd take back what was his by right

The BoD better be on guard!

when the conference is on and old Bill is in the yard

If they keep him out they can keep his thrown

but if they let him back in he'll claim it as his own

[Palimpsest]

10 minutes ago, formergothardite said:

There is someone with Trump hair listening to Gothard in that picture! I wish it had made more of a connection between Gil Bates and Bringing Up Bates. It sounds like that perhaps there weren't people lined up to shake his hand like he claimed. 

I think that is an old (possibly stock) picture of BG though.  Not from this year's Big Sandy escapade. 

[Four is Enough]

Billy you rosin up your tongue 

and spin your lies real hard

'Cause your cult has gotten loose from you

and is running really far.

If you spin you'll get another chance to run the show

But 'cording to Gil, the answer is just NO

[JermajestyDuggar]

On 4/30/2018 at 1:05 PM, Howl said:

I wonder if that fake potted tree in the background is passed around for all of these types of youtube videos, like there's some rent-a- fake-background-tree company. 

There was probably a special sale at Hobby Lobby. 

[socalrules]

It’s strange that they were so adamant about Gothard leaving the conference. Had I now known how it ended, I would have thought they would worship him when they got him alone instead of trying to force him to leave. I have to think this is about more than just the Board wanting to look good. I wonder if there is something else we don’t know that makes them want Gothard to go away forever. I mean, this is a man they basically worshipped. A part of me always thought he was still pulling the strings from behind the scenes. I wonder if an advance was made to a girl from a prominent family. 

[Pecansforeveryone]

On 4/30/2018 at 12:30 PM, Palimpsest said:

I remembered where I saw that clip of Gabe Cleator.  I continue to keep my beady eye on this not as young as he looks rising star.

Someone hand me a tranquilizer gun, please.

 

May word of the day is schmuck: a foolish or detestable person. Gabriel  Cleator is a schmuck. 

[Themanda Duggar]

34 minutes ago, Pecansforeveryone said:

May word of the day is schmuck: a foolish or detestable person. Gabriel  Cleator is a schmuck. 

Though schmuck is used colloquially in the way you defined it, it’s really a derogatory Yiddish word for penis.  As in “he’s such a dick”.