IBLP Calls Cops on Bill Gothard for Trespass

[Palimpsest]

And in other news, IBLP has put up its own report of the Big Sandy conference [my edits in bold]:

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Families Encouraged at Big Sandy Family Conference

Over 1,850 although it looked like fewer attendees and staff and Bill Gothard gathered in Big Sandy, Texas, for this year’s Family Conference, held April 23–28. Families and individuals came from more than 35 states and 6 countries to be encouraged by the speakers and fellowship or, like Bill Gothard were asked to leave. Children and young people participated in the Children’s Institute, Pre-EXCEL, the ALERT Cadet Challenge, and COMMIT: these programs taught principles from God’s Word in a memorable and engaging way.

And we've changed up the schedule because people were complaining of exhaustion.

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This year the Big Sandy conference commenced with the opening session on Monday evening, which was one day earlier than past Family Conferences.  After that we called the police to tell them Bill Gothard was trespassing. The extra evening allowed for a more relaxed schedule by providing for other evening sessions to dismiss earlier. Many families commented that they appreciated the new schedule because it allowed children to get more rest, enabling moms and dads to enjoy more of the sessions. The revised schedule also opened more time for fellowship with others but not with Bill Gothard we ran him off the property.

We found some raw meat:

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Several of the conference speakers this year were new to Family Conferences and we didn't invite the Maxwells back! Dean Miller’s message for the students, “God’s Presence in a Godless World,” spoke to many hearts as did his other inspirational messages. Scott Aniol’s session “Why Do We Sing  Swing?” was timely and instructional. Steve and Megan Scheibner spoke on marriage and parenting, giving families practical, hands-on tools that they can use at home. More than thirty unsaved individuals gave their lives to Christ following a Gospel presentation by speaker and evangelist Tim Lee, see not everyone there was a cult member, and hundreds more responded to the Lord in other ways.

And we held to our core values:

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Tim Barton, the son of David Barton, shared messages about lessons from revisionist history and reminded the attendees of our nation’s so-called Christian Heritage, because that Freedom of Religion concept is as fake as evolution. These speakers were joined by past favorites, including Peter Magnuson, Jobe Martin, Josef Tson, Joe Norvell, Bob Newhouse, Gabe Cleator, and the Duggar and Bates families.  Aren't you bored with this crowd of repeat speakers yet?

And then we congratulated ourselves:

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Following the end of the Family Conference, staff shared about the numerous reports they heard or were given, and gossiped about Bill Gothard. We decided that although redemption and forgiveness are supposed to be Christian values we aren't letting him back into the cult.  No, sir! 

https://iblp.org/news/families-encouraged-big-sandy-family-conference

[Alisamer]

4 hours ago, ViolaSebastian said:

Honestly, this tells me all I need to know about Gothard and IBLP.

 

Wow. Just... Wow.

1-2 - convince victim that abuse is not really a big deal, it's just their body, not anything important

3 - convince victim that they are hurting themselves more than the abuser did

4-5 - find a way to blame the victim, and make them admit it was their own fault

6 - if you can't find a way to blame the victim, gaslight them into thinking the abuse was a good thing

7-10 - preach random things at them until they give up and agree to forgive the abuser

That's just gross.

Also - That bit in number 5 about "moral vaccination" - am I reading that wrong, or is it implying that you should try to get the victim to marry the perpetrator? 

[FundieFarmer]

4 hours ago, ViolaSebastian said:

Honestly, this tells me all I need to know about Gothard and IBLP.

 

Oh, how I'd love to go to town ripping this apart. Let me tell you what: I would like to have not been raped and still be mighty in Spirit. I don't think those two things are mutually exclusive, asshole.

Also, @luv2laugh– I liked your suggestion of changing the thread title...on it

[formergothardite]

44 minutes ago, Alisamer said:

- That bit in number 5 about "moral vaccination" - am I reading that wrong, or is it implying that you should try to get the victim to marry the perpetrator? 

If I remember correctly this has to do with a story he told in some of his seminars where a woman struggled with sexual thoughts she was raped and that caused her to no longer have sexual thoughts. Gothard compared being raped as some sort of  vaccination for her against sinning by having sexual thoughts. I think number 5 was supposed to be moral vaccination AND learning genuine love because you have cast out fear after the sexual assault and therefore you will be better prepared for marriage. 

The entire thing is fucked up and this is like Exhibit A on why Bill Gothard is a bad, bad, bad man. 

[Joyfully_Unavailable]

On 16/05/2018 at 7:16 AM, Palimpsest said:

And have you ever heard of the mysterious Pastor David York?

 

At this point, I’m convinced he’s the fundie Bigfoot

[meowfundiecatz]

I know from a few weeks ago when they released the schedule that the "Duggar Daughters" were there, but have we found out which ones? I was guessing Lauren (DIL), Joy, Jana?

[Frank Castle]

5 hours ago, AliceInFundyland said:

@Frank Castle May I respectfully ask why you need proof Gothard is a bad man? ... You seem like a pretty rational fellow. What are you wavering on/on the fence about in this whole situation? (Apologies if that's too personal)

I see that I did not come across as clearly as I intended.

I don't need proof, I believe most of what G is accused of. (The only reason I say most is because I haven't checked what he has been accused of for a couple of years)  

My questioning is not whether what he did is right or wrong, but how is it viewed in the court of public opinion, especially in Evangelical Christian circles. Many people do not know the full extent of what went on. Fewer still are even aware of Steve and his misdeeds. I'm just wondering how you convince a sheep that the shepherd is in fact, a wolf, when so many of them just dismiss it all as accusations without proof. All you have to do to get them uncomfortable is use a couple of "cuss words"or say "sex" and then they turn beet red and start looking for an exit. How do have an honest discussion and try to show them the error of their beloved teacher that they have followed blindly for how many years, without them just shutting down? 

ETA: Lot of people are also starting to admit that he might be bad, but they have just kept their eyes averted and ears plugged intentionally, so now all they know is that there are some whispers about things being bad, but they don't know who or what to believe.

[AliceInFundyland]

@Frank Castle Thank you for clarifying. That makes complete sense. 

[Frank Castle]

2 hours ago, Joyfully_Unavailable said:

At this point, I’m convinced he’s the fundie Bigfoot

http://fox6now.com/2015/11/04/ministry-with-connections-to-duggar-family-sued-over-abuse-allegations-new-berlin-pastor-on-defensive/

His church's website http://crossroadswi.com/

ETA: David York, (1/4 of the IBLP BoD)

[formergothardite]

39 minutes ago, Frank Castle said:

I'm just wondering how you convince a sheep that the shepherd is in fact, a wolf, when so many of them just dismiss it all as accusations without proof.

Sadly you can't. They don't want to see and so they won't. To admit that Bill is bad would be the path to admitting his teachings are wrong. People have built their whole sense of identity around Bill's patriarchal and sexists teachings. We just have to look at Alfred to see that the sheep won't open their eyes until they want to. Alfred watched Gothard treat his own daughters in inappropriate ways and still makes excuses for him. 

The followers of IBLP are having to ignore a mountain of evidence that the organization is rotten to the core. 

[Palimpsest]

22 hours ago, luv2laugh said:

How do we know for sure that the board has legal control over IBLP? Wouldn’t Gothard still be owner of some of the properties despite resigning?

@Frank Castle already answered this, even more bluntly than I.  It is a no-brainer.

18 hours ago, Frank Castle said:

As far as knowing for sure who runs it, well this is the one time in your life you can thank the IRS for actually helping with something. Check the financials.

Straight from the google "Nonprofit corporations must submit their financial statements, which include the salaries of directors, officers and key employees to the IRS on Form 990 as mentioned above. Both the IRS and the nonprofit corporation are required to disclose the information they provide on Form 990 to the public."

Yeah, that was like "get with the program." If you have been following IBLP for long.  And all of this had already been discussed upthread.  I dislike having to repeat myself.

But to clarify for newcomers to the whole situation:

IBLP (under a different name) was incorporated way back in 1961 as a 501(c)3 - a nonprofit entity.  Here's a link to what a nonprofit is: 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nonprofit_organization#United_States

And there is the governance bit:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nonprofit_organization#Governance

To clarify again:  IBLP has a self-perpetuating board.  The "President" reports to the board.

So Bill Gothard was then an employee (as President AKA Executive Director) of his own nonprofit.  Or cult.  As such, for tax reasons, he was subject to the decisions of the board of directors.  He tried to load the BoD with unquestioning supporters for years, but then he blew it.  He did many bad things.  And they accepted his resignation when the shit finally hit the fan.

To whit: A massive lawsuit was filed alleging that Bill Gothard was a sexual predator, and that rapes, incest ,and many cases of sexual and other abuses had occurred at IBLP.

After a (flawed) investigation a bad employee (Gothard) was dumped (as in they accepted his resignation) because he was an obvious liability.  Even though the BoD denied the allegations they decided and publicly announced that Gothard was unfit for leadership.

And they really do not want him back.  Even if he was the Founder.  There is no doubt that Bill Gothard has Founder's Syndrome.  Here's a definition of that: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Founder's_syndrome

The BoD made a grab for power and screwed the Founder.  Royally.  It does not necessarily make them look like good people.  They dumped him, but still preach his poisonous message. 

And there is money involved.  Much money.

I have no sympathy for Bill Gothard at all.  He reaped what he sowed.  I have no respect for the Board of Directors of IBLP because they continue to deny Bill Gothard's wrongdoing, and are enjoying the profits.

 

 

[Rachel333]

Wow, I hadn't been following what was going on with IBLP for a while so while I knew Gothard had been ousted, I didn't know the situation was like this.

The Alfred stuff just makes me sad. I have a personal connection to some of his kids so it was startling when I realized who Alfred was, and I feel bad for his kids having to have him as a dad. I'd find it incredibly embarrassing.

[Palimpsest]

1 hour ago, Frank Castle said:

http://fox6now.com/2015/11/04/ministry-with-connections-to-duggar-family-sued-over-abuse-allegations-new-berlin-pastor-on-defensive/

His church's website http://crossroadswi.com/

ETA: David York, (1/4 of the IBLP BoD)

Yep.  That is the mysterious Pastor David York. 

I wonder whether he will get tired of his rubber stamp role at IBLP.

[Pecansforeveryone]

I do wonder who the transfer of power will go to as Gil Bates and senior board members age. I tend to think David Waller is a pretty obvious choice. Have any of the Bates boys been groomed for leadership? 

[Black Aliss]

On 4/19/2018 at 11:39 PM, Bretta said:

LMAO what would he know about that? Reminds me of his book about the seven secrets of a successful courtship by "Bill Gothard, PhD".

It seems to that if you've never played the game, you aren't qualified to make the rules.

[Pecansforeveryone]

13 minutes ago, Black Aliss said:

It seems to that if you've never played the game, you aren't qualified to make the rules.

It's still amazing to me that Gothard was allowed to remain single and childless while building an entire cult based on marriage and fertility. I heard the reasoning given was he was sacrificing a family life to build the ministry. Um, really? If you, the "godliest" of all men can't balance ministry and family, how do you expect lesser men to manage it? I always hestitate to call people dumb but I might at the end of my rope as far as playing nice with fundies. 

[Frank Castle]

17 minutes ago, Pecansforeveryone said:

It's still amazing to me that Gothard was allowed to remain single and childless while building an entire cult based on marriage and fertility. I heard the reasoning given was he was sacrificing a family life to build the ministry. Um, really? If you, the "godliest" of all men can't balance ministry and family, how do you expect lesser men to manage it? I always hestitate to call people dumb but I might at the end of my rope as far as playing nice with fundies. 

Also note how this was brought up in 'discovering grace's' little propaganda piece about the Conference situation....

But yes, @Pecansforeveryone you do bring up an excellent point. Hypocrisy was permitted at the highest level, now the question is how far down the chain did it go?

 

Basically everything Bill did was allowed, because he would just find a way to twist anything. I see signs of a narcissistic sociopath, but I could be way off...  

[Frank Castle]

3 hours ago, Palimpsest said:

@Frank Castle already answered this, even more bluntly than I.  It is a no-brainer.

Yeah, that was like "get with the program." If you have been following IBLP for long.  And all of this had already been discussed upthread.  I dislike having to repeat myself.

But to clarify for newcomers to the whole situation:

IBLP (under a different name) was incorporated way back in 1961 as a 501(c)3 - a nonprofit entity.  Here's a link to what a nonprofit is: 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nonprofit_organization#United_States

And there is the governance bit:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nonprofit_organization#Governance

To clarify again:  IBLP has a self-perpetuating board.  The "President" reports to the board.

So Bill Gothard was then an employee (as President AKA Executive Director) of his own nonprofit.  Or cult.  As such, for tax reasons, he was subject to the decisions of the board of directors.  He tried to load the BoD with unquestioning supporters for years, but then he blew it.  He did many bad things.  And they accepted his resignation when the shit finally hit the fan.

To whit: A massive lawsuit was filed alleging that Bill Gothard was a sexual predator, and that rapes, incest ,and many cases of sexual and other abuses had occurred at IBLP.

After a (flawed) investigation a bad employee (Gothard) was dumped (as in they accepted his resignation) because he was an obvious liability.  Even though the BoD denied the allegations they decided and publicly announced that Gothard was unfit for leadership.

And they really do not want him back.  Even if he was the Founder.  There is no doubt that Bill Gothard has Founder's Syndrome.  Here's a definition of that: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Founder's_syndrome

The BoD made a grab for power and screwed the Founder.  Royally.  It does not necessarily make them look like good people.  They dumped him, but still preach his poisonous message. 

And there is money involved.  Much money.

I have no sympathy for Bill Gothard at all.  He reaped what he sowed.  I have no respect for the Board of Directors of IBLP because they continue to deny Bill Gothard's wrongdoing, and are enjoying the profits.

 

 

Exactly! You get it. 

If people claim to care about the victims of Bill and IBLP, why not go to the effort to educate yourselves and find out as much as you can, and then DO something about it?? That is one of the reasons I have never posted until this week, a whole lot of talk and not very much action. ETA: (That I can see. There could be lots that I'm not aware of, so mods feel free to set me straight.) 

 I can't do a whole lot without the whole story, but the internet is a powerful tool that allows us to learn things that we never would have years ago. It took literally 5 minutes to find David York's church, now someone who lives nearby should go check it out some Sunday.... who knows what we could learn from that..... 

[Rachel333]

My parents went to a Gothard marriage seminar early in their marriage and thought it was ridiculous, especially since he was unmarried himself. My dad does a funny impression of Gothard explaining which hairstyles and clothing styles are acceptable for men and which are for "sodomites" or even "just gross." 

[Eternalbluepearl]

I admit I haven't followed much about Gothard at all. These turn of events, with him getting asked to leave and the police coming is shocking to me. I knew he had a birthday cake at Erin and Chad Paine's wedding and now a few years later here is Gil Bates calling the police? This is fascinating. But again, I haven't followed any of it so to me it's shocking. I realize everyone else here has known the board wasn't about to just welcome Bill Gothard back. I had also heard about Gill being on the board but for some reason I pictured a huge group of people and Gil just being one of many. I didn"t realize he is one of 3 or 4 leaders and one of the others is Chad's dad. Bringing Up Bates does NOT enlighten us on this topic. 

[formergothardite]

7 hours ago, Frank Castle said:

Also note how this was brought up in 'discovering grace's' little propaganda piece about the Conference situation...

I always thought there was  a story about how he found someone he wanted to marry but his mother didn't approve and so he obeyed his mother and broke off the relationship. We were always told that he lived with his mom to set an example that children need to stay under the authority of their parents until marriage. 

I honestly think most of the stories he told were a pile of crap. 

8 minutes ago, Eternalbluepearl said:

Bringing Up Bates does NOT enlighten us on this topic. 

I've tried so hard to enlighten people in the Bates section! To the point of annoying lots of people.  BUB is not a real reflection of their lives.  

[Howl]

25 minutes ago, formergothardite said:

I always thought there was  a story about how he found someone he wanted to marry but his mother didn't approve and so he obeyed his mother and broke off the relationship.

This 2016 Homeschoolers Anonymous piece quotes Libby Anne's post: 10 Revelations in the Lawsuit against Bill Gothard and IBLP.  Libby Anne blogs at Love, Joy, Feminism

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At one point in the early 1990s, after Gothard asked the IBLP Board of Directors for permission to marry Rachel Lees, the board barred Gothard from having female personal assistants. This ban was never enforced, and Gothard continued his pattern.  From BILL GOTHARD’S ABUSE IS NOT A SURPRISE

The point is that Shade's family, pre-internet, and one of thousands of anonymous families following Gothard's teachings, KNEW ABOUT GOTHARD'S PREFERRED TYPE of teenaged girl.  

[Palimpsest]

8 hours ago, Frank Castle said:

Exactly! You get it. 

Yes.  But then I have been following this for a very long time.  Possibly longer than you.

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If people claim to care about the victims of Bill and IBLP, why not go to the effort to educate yourselves and find out as much as you can,

I have made every effort to educate myself about the dangers of extreme Fundamentalism - in my spare time.

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and then DO something about it??

That is not the stated purpose of Free Jinger.  We are a primarily a snark board, although we try to educate our readers as we can about the inconsistencies, hypocrisy and downright evil lurking in the depths of extreme beliefs.  We probably have far more readers (we are a public board) than members.  We sometimes educate through rather dubious humor because snark is both a defense and a weapon in the arsenal. 

And you have no idea about what we, as individuals, may "DO" off-line.  We have rules about not representing Free Jinger as we "DO" things though.  https://www.freejinger.org/faq/8-guidelines/#elQuestion-114

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That is one of the reasons I have never posted until this week, a whole lot of talk and not very much action. ETA: (That I can see. There could be lots that I'm not aware of, so mods feel free to set me straight.) 

IBLP is just one manure heap among many.  Speaking only for myself, I track as many extreme Fundamentalist parachurches, churches, and movements as I have time to spend.  The links among them are interesting.  Their methods are remarkably similar.  I try to point these out - for educational purposes.

Unfortunately, I think that it is ultimately up to the members and survivors of these corrupt and spiritually abusive religious movements to defeat them.  It might be by working to make changes from within or by voting with their feet and leaving them.

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 I can't do a whole lot without the whole story, but the internet is a powerful tool that allows us to learn things that we never would have years ago.

Yes.  

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It took literally 5 minutes to find David York's church,

If you had read back a few pages you would have seen that I had already found it.  And we were already aware of his presence on the BoD and his official bio.  Calling him the mysterious Pastor David York was a joke, because he seems to hide in the shadows. 

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now someone who lives nearby should go check it out some Sunday.... who knows what we could learn from that..... 

Someone might.  But you don't get to direct or order other members to do anything.  

Again, Free Jinger is an international snark forum with members of many different beliefs.  We are not a advocacy group nor an activist group. You need to look elsewhere for that.   Recovering Grace or Homeschoolers Anonymous may be more up your alley.  

[formergothardite]

While we do have amazing debates that have helped change people's minds(me included), FJ can't save the world. And unless someone is open to learning, nothing they read here will help. We can make information available for those who want to learn. 

[Palimpsest]

14 minutes ago, formergothardite said:

We can make information available for those who want to learn. 

This.  But there's that old saying about leading horses to water ...

And I think we've both greatly annoyed people in the Bates and Duggar subforums by preaching the unreality of Reality TV and the evils of IBLP.