IBLP Calls Cops on Bill Gothard for Trespass

[feministxtian]

5 minutes ago, Palimpsest said:

I meant me!  

I admit that I don't suffer fools gladly and can get a bit cranky.  But it is really very easy to stay on my good side.  

oops...I've been told I'm about as tactful as a Mac Truck...so...given my propensity for colorful language, lack of tact and incredible ability to shove my foot in my mouth...

[formergothardite]

A lot of recent conference pictures involve ALERT, but I found an old video that shows what the little girls get to do while the boys are outside having fun. 

 

[quiversR4hunting]

22 hours ago, Marionette said:

I've never seen Zach & Whit there. Erin stopped coming after she married Chad because he couldn't get off work. Same with Alyssa. Michael is a different case because Brandon works for IBLP.  The number of older Bates kids attending just started waning over the course of a few years... Tori couldn't come because it was finals week at Crown, eventually same for Carlin and Josie. Sometimes Nathan would fly a few of them down in the middle of the week. Other than that, all of the younger kids (Katie & below) were always there. 

This is very interesting to me. Erin married Chad and Chad is a Paine, Paine's are on the board yet Erin & Chad don't attend. Very interesting! I had to search and sure enough Erin denounced the cult a few years ago. here is the IG post and article that captured it: http://www.sheknows.com/entertainment/articles/1113745/two-bringing-up-bates-stars-denounce-duggar-family-ministry 

I am glad you have never seen Zach and Whit there. I think that tells us what we have thought, which is that Whit follows the rules around the Bates but her and Zach do their own thing at home.

I have a question - so what do members think of the big name 2nd or 3rd generation kids not staying in the cult? (Like Erin/Chad, Alyssa, Zach/Whit, etc)

[TShirtsLongSkirts]

19 minutes ago, quiversR4hunting said:

sure enough Erin denounced the cult a few years ago. here is the IG post and article that captured it: http://www.sheknows.com/entertainment/articles/1113745/two-bringing-up-bates-stars-denounce-duggar-family-ministry 

I think denouncing the cult might be a bit strong - she denounced Bill Gotham, but that was after he'd been kicked out. Meaning unfortunately they are almost certainly still IBLPers. They're experts at twisting the truth. 

My phone autocorrected Gothard to Gotham but I'm leaving it because that's a much cooler name... 

[quiversR4hunting]

5 minutes ago, TShirtsLongSkirts said:

I think denouncing the cult might be a bit strong - she denounced Bill Gotham, but that was after he'd been kicked out. Meaning unfortunately they are almost certainly still IBLPers. They're experts at twisting the truth. 

My phone autocorrected Gothard to Gotham but I'm leaving it because that's a much cooler name... 

you are correct, she denounced Bill. I stand corrected.

[Palimpsest]

Yes, them's weasel words.  Nothing to take to the bank and confirm that Erin and Chad, or Lawson, are out. It is very clear that she and Lawson are distancing IBLP from Gothard the man and his new ministry.  

Quote

Then her brother, Lawson Bates, chimed in, clarifying that their dad only joined the board two years ago — Gothard resigned in 2014 — and was not aware of the accusations at the time.

Bullshit.  We looked it up and proved that Gil was on the board in 2013 .  In fact he joined the board fully aware of the problems.

Quote

I am glad you have never seen Zach and Whit there. I think that tells us what we have thought, which is that Whit follows the rules around the Bates but her and Zach do their own thing at home.

I'm actually the most optimistic about these two.  However, as Zach has a real job with the police perhaps he can't get the time off work to go to Big Sandy.

I hope they leave the cult.  I really do.  But we have no real proof that they are out.

[HideousGreenShirt]

Thanks for the insights and welcome @Marionette!

I have a couple of questions, if you're able to answer I'd be grateful. 

How much roughly does it cost to attend family conference and JTTH per person? 

In reference to JTTH, did you sense that attendees were deeply moved by the experience or did they see it as more of a fun camp getaway? I guess actually that could be a question about the family conferences too. 

[Marionette]

51 minutes ago, formergothardite said:

A lot of recent conference pictures involve ALERT, but I found an old video that shows what the little girls get to do while the boys are outside having fun. 

They pretty much just do crafts, sing songs, and watch skits. I believe most of the girls enjoy it, but that may be because they are literally taught from a young age that girls don't get to roll in the mud and stuff...

34 minutes ago, quiversR4hunting said:

I have a question - so what do members think of the big name 2nd or 3rd generation kids not staying in the cult? (Like Erin/Chad, Alyssa, Zach/Whit, etc)

I really couldn't say. I think some people realize that things are changing, and that we are not going to live in the 80s-90s forever. I know a lot of 2nd-gen ATI-ers that allow pants & modern entertainment.

However, those are little things. They are a lot harder on people who actually leave their version of fundamentalism. I don't know the Bateses that well, so I really don't know where the Websters or Zach & Whit actually stand, though they haven't seemed to do anything too drastic in getting away from it except for maybe Whitney getting a job?

I hope I am allowed to use Jinger as an example (if not, mods can remove it)... There were people who did not approve of her marrying a guy who did not conform to Gothard-like beliefs.

[metheglyn]

1 hour ago, formergothardite said:

A lot of recent conference pictures involve ALERT, but I found an old video that shows what the little girls get to do while the boys are outside having fun. 

 

Is it just me, or does the lead singer in this video sound like an adult woman singing in "little girl voice" backed by a choir of actual little girls? It just really doesn't sound like an authentic child voice to me. Nor does it sound like a boy soprano.

[Marionette]

6 minutes ago, HideousGreenShirt said:

How much roughly does it cost to attend family conference and JTTH per person? 

In reference to JTTH, did you sense that attendees were deeply moved by the experience or did they see it as more of a fun camp getaway? I guess actually that could be a question about the family conferences too. 

The family conference is $200/family or $75/individual for NON-ATI members; $150/family, $55/individual for ATI members. Those are early-registration fees. If you register at the door, it's about $20-25 more. In addition, you have to pay for lodging, meal tickets (unless you bring your own food), and kids programs. COMMIT is $50/head, ALERT Cadet is $75, pre-EXCEL is $65, and Children's Institute is $55. It adds up!! 

Journey has all kinds of prices. NON-ATI: $700 first-timer, $550 for any additional family members, and there are group rates for 3+ people from $550-650/each. ATI members: $525 first-timer, $400 additional family members, $425-475 for groups of 3 or more. These are only early-registration fees. If you're an alumni you can go for $375. 

I think they lowered the prices because I remember it being like $800 for myself, being a non-ATI member. There is no way my single father had that money laying around! Someone paid for me and 2 other girls (who had single parents) to go as a "ministry." I had considered going again a few years ago, but never had the time or money. I still follow some of my teammates on Instagram and I don't think half of them are still involved in ATI/fundamentalism. 

Some people acted like they were changed from the JTTH, but at the time, their method of doing things were foreign to me so the whole week I think I was kind of trying to process all of the "Which lies do you believe?" and how to hear God and how to pray the "right" way. I may have grown up fundie, but Gothard taught some of this stuff differently. At JTTH, you have no phones or anything, and you are often alone (with God) during the day, and we only did fun activities for a few hours in the afternoon and after the evening sessions. I don't think there is any way for JTTH to be just a fun getaway... It has to be taken seriously. 

The conferences are laid back, comparatively, and a lot of people (like me) went for social reasons... There's less "isolation" and they do encourage you to meet people. Even if there wasn't much time to socialize, at least you could sit with your friends. *shrugs*

[JermajestyDuggar]

I doubt we will see Zach and Whit there even if he was able to get the time off. Whit most likely doesn’t care since she was never in the cult and has no tie or nostalgia when it comes to big sandy. And who wants to waste their vacation days on a place like that? I would rather vacation some place where I can relax. Nothing about big sandy sounds relaxing.

[neurogirl]

@formergothardite while the pictures weren’t that bad, that song. What the heck. “He knows when you are sleeping, he knows when you’re awake” creepy God-cult version

[formergothardite]

What do they do with children who are too young to go to the Children's Institute? In the past they made all the mothers sit in a room with their small children and try to watch the sessions on a large screen, but my mother always hated it. I am curious if they have improved the situation for mothers with young children. 

[nolongerIFBx]

http://www.discoveringgrace.com/2018/03/30/dg-responds-to-rg/ Forget whatever junk in the "article." Scroll to the last comment on the page and back up to April 24.

[formergothardite]

Wow! @nolongerIFBx! So Gothard showed up. sat in the front row and they kicked him out! 

I'm amused Gothard did this. He built this corrupt cult, these folks spent years covering up all the crazy shit and now they want to pretend he never existed?! I bet they were so pissed that he ruined this. It also made them look bad to kick the elderly man whose teachings the entire thing is built on out of the conference. Especially since they claimed their investigation showed he didn't do any of the stuff he is accused of doing. 

[LouisvilleGirl]

whoa! Gothard has some balls!

[TShirtsLongSkirts]

I screenshotted for posterity as it took me a while to find the comments. 

Spoiler

 

 

[Nikedagain?]

6 hours ago, Marionette said:

Yes, I actually appreciate how most of you are very respectful and can speak factually, and perhaps objectively? (not sure if that is the word I'm looking for) about the issues on the table.

The majority of us really value critical thinking skills! 

[Marionette]

Wuuuuuut! He came this year?! Too bad I missed that  Just kidding, of course. 

This is random, but he used to give kids $1 bills for reciting bible verses to him. Also just fyi, since the accusations of abuse in 2014, all of the program leaders who deal with children have to go through background checks. 

1 hour ago, formergothardite said:

What do they do with children who are too young to go to the Children's Institute? In the past they made all the mothers sit in a room with their small children and try to watch the sessions on a large screen, but my mother always hated it. I am curious if they have improved the situation for mothers with young children. 

The moms just keep their babies in the main convention center, and the nursing room is optional. The room is big enough to where there is a lot of noise anyway, and the speakers are loud enough to hear over most of the crying or talking. Some moms stay in their dorm/cabin/camper if the baby is too fussy, and only come to the evening sessions. 

[Melissa1977]

Regarding Whitney and Zach, I think young Zach wasn't involved in Alert. I used to read old Bates blog and I remember the girls were into Gothardite activities, but older boys  were not, or at least Zach wasn't. It's been a long time and maybe I don't remember right. 

I think Gothard wasn't at Zach's wedding. It's a bit weird, since just a month before, he was attending Erin's wedding as a guest of honor. 

 

[punkiepie]

45 minutes ago, Nikedagain? said:

The majority of us really value critical thinking skills! 

So much yes to this!  Especially after having spent so many years repressing my critical thinking skills, or at the very least believing that my deductive reasoning ability was just totally wrong (because it usually ended up with me not seeing how XYZ or could be true). Sometimes I think I might have swung too far in the opposite direction because now I pretty much take everything with a grain of salt and am far less inclined to fully believe anything without verifying it for myself first. But I basically now operate under the assumption that if something looks to good to be true, it probably is. Or if it perfectly fits the narrative I want it to, then chances are likely that I’m probably allowing confirmation bias to affect my judgment.  For example, I don’t think of myself as judgmental at all anymore, except I know that I’m highly judgmental towards people I perceive to be judgmental. So when I hear/read something about someone I think is judgmental, I have to ask myself- am I believing this because it’s true or just because I want it to be true?  

Another thing is that I almost never see black and white anymore, everything is some shade of gray, which I also know is probably the pendulum swinging too far in the opposite direction. But what’s really important in all of this is that I’m aware of all these flaws/biases/vulnerabilities and I try my best to critically think my way to a sound rationale or judgment.  It’s an ongoing struggle, but one I happily choose to have rather than just relying on what someone else tells me to believe is right or wrong. 

[CyborgKin]

Really fascinating thread, thanks to everyone who's contributed.

This reminds me that there's another Creation SuperConference coming up fairly soon (October). It's the self proclaimed "biggest Creation Conference in the southern hemisphere!".  Which isn't really saying much.  Last time (waaay back in 2016!) there was wifi so I took notes and shared them in a thread here as soon as each session ended.  Hopefully I'll be able to do that again.

Details, speakers, and schedule are here https://creation.com/conferences/au/superconference/ . This year there's two female speakers, and as far as I can remember there haven't been any before.   (And that goes back to the days when CMI was still AiG and Ken Ham was present.)

Anyhow, back to IBLP stuff.  I have come across a few people in Australia who've been involved in some ATI stuff here but I don't have any details and don't really know how much of a relationship there is between this branch and the USA.  Though I do remember something about them selling off some big conference facility several months ago.  I don't know how that turned out though.  But it did have a thread on FJ at the time.

[Curious]

On 4/18/2018 at 11:57 AM, Palimpsest said:

Why would people keep going back year after year?   Same old, same old.

My guess is that it's the only time they get to have their eligible kids see and be seen.  Since these people are so isolationist, they don't have much chance of marrying adults children off unless they go to these things year after year.

Plus, the "lower class" get to mingle with the "royals" like the Duggars/Bateseseseses

It's kind of silly to pretend you aren't there if you are teaching classes.  Do they really think people are that stupid?

[Palimpsest]

Whoa, mama!  So Gothard actually went to Big Sandy and got escorted out by police.

What wouldn't I give to have been a fly on the wall for that!

And the repulsive Albert of Discovering Grace is pouting like a fool.  BG didn't give him a heads-up that he was going to crash the conference and Albert's little feelers are hurt.  He's been so loyal to BG too.

@CyborgKin, I remember your notes from the last Creation Conference.  They were wonderful.  I hope you do get to go again and let us know what goes on.

6 minutes ago, Curious said:

It's kind of silly to pretend you aren't there if you are teaching classes.  Do they really think people are that stupid?

Yes.

 

[BullyJBG]

Interesting. Very interesting. Thanks @Marionette for answering some burning questions.

 I guess sir Gothard thought that when they gave up the lawsuit he could come back like nothing happened, like he did back in the '80s. Unless there ARE dementia-related issues. Stay tuned, right?