IBLP Calls Cops on Bill Gothard for Trespass

[Pecansforeveryone]

Ok, I am curious about the other Roberts kids. Could you point me in their direction? Thank you. 

[VBOY9977]

19 minutes ago, Pecansforeveryone said:

Ok, I am curious about the other Roberts kids. Could you point me in their direction? Thank you. 

The Roberts are a family of 12 who are friends with the Mortons, Sanders and Campanas. One of their daughters (Campbell) was rumored to be with Trace Bates but that went down the drain.

they used to be pretty fundie (around the same level as the Mortons)  but now they’re pretty normal. 

[Palimpsest]

On 4/19/2018 at 1:54 PM, crawfishgirl said:

I've also been curious about it as well, though I couldn't actually do it.  If I were serious about it, I would probably start with a Maxwell conference first, since I wouldn't have to sleep onsite - it would give me a short trial run at getting the right 'look' to fit in, since I'm not even sure if I own a long-enough skirt.  Also a chance to use the correct terminology, which I've learned from this site.

I think that I've been reading here for too long...

Maxwell conferences are now few and far between.  I sort of fit the "look"  because I owned the requisite frumpy ankle-length dress but there were a couple of women there in defrauding capri pants too, and at least one very modestly dressed head-covering lady.

But have I mentioned that I probably blew my cover at the start by being a couple of steps ahead of my Headship and daring to introduce myself.  Also Steve's idea of small talk is to ask about your family.  So unfortunately the only way truly to blend in is to go with a gaggle of kids.  And I really wouldn't inflict the Maxwells on even the most resilient kids!

[JermajestyDuggar]

12 minutes ago, VBOY9977 said:

The Roberts are a family of 12 who are friends with the Mortons, Sanders and Campanas. One of their daughters (Campbell) was rumored to be with Trace Bates but that went down the drain.

they used to be pretty fundie (around the same level as the Mortons)  but now they’re pretty normal. 

They LOOK normal. But I wouldn’t call them normal. 

[FilleMondaine]

On 4/20/2018 at 10:50 AM, JermajestyDuggar said:

Hipster fundies and hipster fundie pastors are definitely becoming a thing. I feel like the Roberts kids are the epitome of fundie hipster. And Norma married a hipster pastor and has two hipster babies already. 

Hipster pastor? Like Reverend Tim Tom from show The Middle? (It's all I see)

[formergothardite]

2 hours ago, Tatar-tot said:

There are a ton of empty seats.  Membership must have dropped quite a bit. 

I really think that Recovering Grace and Gothard getting kicked out for being a creep really put the nail in the coffin for IBLP. Now people who are interested are going to Google and see an entire site dedicated to exposing the wacky beliefs that typically weren't seen until people were deep in and sharing stories of people raised in IBLP who discuss how the teachings ruined their life. Any interested families are also going to see that the person whose teachings the entire organization is built on is no longer allowed to be a part of it because he is a pervert. Who would want to join after finding out those things?

This was in 2009, so membership as dropped very fast.

Spoiler

 

I wouldn't be surprised if they eventually close down IBLP and open a new, shiny cult that teaches basically the same stuff.  

[VelociRapture]

Did a quick search on Instagram for #bigsandy and only found some lame posts for Alert:

Spoiler

Spoiler

 

 

Maybe the Bateses had a nice little chat with The Pecan Thief about not posting about them being there?

[JermajestyDuggar]

ALERT is all they have left that people are actually interested in and can recruit new people. I think it has a lot to do with the gun nuts screaming about their guns being taken away that will probably keep people interested in ALERT. 

[formergothardite]

There seems to be less pictures of this event this year than there were last year and last year it was pretty scarce. 

[ophelia]

6 hours ago, formergothardite said:

I wouldn't be surprised if they eventually close down IBLP and open a new, shiny cult that teaches basically the same stuff.

I totally agree with you and I could see Gil Bates being in a very high position in the new cult.

[luv2laugh]

IBLP sent David and Priscilla travelling in a bus around the US for "mini family conferences" for 3 months awhile back each summer. They did this for two years in a row. I think that IBLP thought it was a good strategy to recruit more members but the plan must have backfired since they did not continue doing them.

I would not be surprised if they shut down IBLP and re-brand. I also think that Gothard wants to be the boss of IBLP again.

On another note, I think that the fundamentalism of the 80s-90s is dying. Hipster fundie-lite seems to be the "new" thing people are getting sucked into. I'm not trying to paint a broad brush here but almost all of the Christians I know that I consider "fundies" are into homeschooling, crunchy holistic living, rustic things, conspiracy theorists, and are ok with tattoos, beards, and piercings. Their theology is the *same* but they're morphing their appearance and ditching the frumpers.

[refugee]

11 hours ago, luv2laugh said:

On another note, I think that the fundamentalism of the 80s-90s is dying. Hipster fundie-lite seems to be the "new" thing people are getting sucked into. I'm not trying to paint a broad brush here but almost all of the Christians I know that I consider "fundies" are into homeschooling, crunchy holistic living, rustic things, conspiracy theorists, and are ok with tattoos, beards, and piercings. Their theology is the *same* but they're morphing their appearance and ditching the frumpers.

You may have something there. The church some members of my family attend now seemed so different from what we left, because of externals like those you describe, but the subordination of women is still there (subtle, but growing), the emphasis on authority (subtle when we first arrived, but it’s there) and the subliminal message that to be super spiritual, the woman stays home and leaves the number of babies she’ll have up to chance. Or god. Or something. Growing families, lots of little kids.

ETA: I had to stop going. The parallels I could see creeped me out.

[Marionette]

Hello! Long-time lurker here . . .

I hope it is okay for me to disclose that I have attended these conferences more recently (Gothard's last year in 2013 through 2017), and it has change a lot since Gothard resigned. Even though these were technically family conferences (and ATI family conferences at that!), I was never a part of ATI though I was raised in fundamentalism, and I attended them with friends' families instead of my own. Last year was really weird for me and I came to a point where I realized I didn't agree with a lot of the teachings, so I'm not there this year (I'm here!). 

All that to say -- since some of you have (perhaps hypothetically) expressed you wish you could be there,  I was reminded  of something weird that happened at the 2014 conference (my second year). This was months, I think, after Gothard stepped down. There was this one guy who showed up by himself, didn't know anyone, and was writing down names of random people who were attending. Given the recent circumstances, some people suspected he was a "scout" for Recovering Grace or FJ...  So we were basically put in lock-down and they had ALERT guys lined up everywhere for "security." And there was even an announcement made that we could not walk anywhere alone, because this guy was just wandering around. Super weird, but I think they concluded he wasn't harmful...? And I can't remember, but I think he left early.  

I suppose I could attempt to answer any questions you might have about the Big Sandy conferences in recent years. 

[Pecansforeveryone]

There's always worldly, fundie lightism. Even mainstream evangelical mega churches that I encountered preached that homosexuality and abortion were sinful. Even as a college graduate, I encountered evangelical s who believed in young earth creationism and were trying to push religion in public schools. Fundies, of all stripes are grand mnasters of rebranding. 

[formergothardite]

@Marionette, how many of the Bates family have shown up in recent years? Do it just Gil and Kelly or do their children come?

I went in the 90's so the conferences then were nothing like the ones now. What are the lectures like now? Do they still use Gothard's teachings? Do people discuss RG?

[apple1]

13 hours ago, luv2laugh said:

On another note, I think that the fundamentalism of the 80s-90s is dying. Hipster fundie-lite seems to be the "new" thing people are getting sucked into.

THAT.

[Palimpsest]

13 hours ago, luv2laugh said:

Hipster fundie-lite seems to be the "new" thing people are getting sucked into. I'm not trying to paint a broad brush here but almost all of the Christians I know that I consider "fundies" are into homeschooling, crunchy holistic living, rustic things, conspiracy theorists, and are ok with tattoos, beards, and piercings. Their theology is the *same* but they're morphing their appearance and ditching the frumpers.

Except there is nothing "lite" about it.  As you point out, it is the same theology.  Fundies in sheep's clothing trying to appear more hipster and relatable to the masses.

[meowfundiecatz]

1 minute ago, Palimpsest said:

Except there is nothing "lite" about it.  As you point out, it is the same theology.  Fundies in sheep's clothing trying to appear more hipster and relatable to the masses.

Completely agree.

[Palimpsest]

@Marionette, welcome to Free Jinger.  I'm glad you are not at Big Sandy. 

if you can answer any of these questions I would be grateful.

Can you give an estimate of how many people were there and do you think the numbers were decreasing?

Were people discussing Bill Gothard and the law suit?  Did they approve of the board's handling of that?

Who do you think is dominant in the present leadership (Gil Bates's generation)?

Who do you think is being groomed for future leadership (David Waller's generation)?

How does David (and Priscilla) come over in person?

Is ALERT membership declining?

And any other comments on the personalities, lectures and workshops would be very welcome.

Thanks!

 

[meowfundiecatz]

I'm seeing a lot of the older (re: instagram age) "kids" heading to Big Sandy today. So not so much of the arrive super early to fellowship sort of thing.

I would love to hear more about the changes post-Gothard @Marionette . Does ATI still shun dancing and contemporary music? Is it becoming fashionable to wear pants? Is there as much emphasis on being an ATI family at Family Conference or are they more so just hoping for attenders? I assume since they dropped the "ATI Conference" title they are trying to get away from that, while still being IBLP/ATI focused, but curious to know!

[Marionette]

1 hour ago, formergothardite said:

@Marionette, how many of the Bates family have shown up in recent years? Do it just Gil and Kelly or do their children come?

I went in the 90's so the conferences then were nothing like the ones now. What are the lectures like now? Do they still use Gothard's teachings? Do people discuss RG?

I've never seen Zach & Whit there. Erin stopped coming after she married Chad because he couldn't get off work. Same with Alyssa. Michael is a different case because Brandon works for IBLP.  The number of older Bates kids attending just started waning over the course of a few years... Tori couldn't come because it was finals week at Crown, eventually same for Carlin and Josie. Sometimes Nathan would fly a few of them down in the middle of the week. Other than that, all of the younger kids (Katie & below) were always there. 

I was actually shocked last year to watch a short film by people who grew up in ATI, because I had no idea of the extent of the dress code, among other things! I think it's safe to day they have relaxed on some of the teachings in recent years, since Gothard left. For one, there are no more requirements to wear white & black only to the conference lol... They no longer bring out Gothard's powerpoints or his "specific" doctrines, but the lectures are still very rooted in Gothardism & fundamentalism. Some individual families still host the Basic Seminar in their homes.

I've only heard RG mentioned when that stranger showed up, and a few months before that when the accusations about Gothard came up. I remember a friend at the time texted me about how they couldn't believe that website was made to be so mean to such a nice man. (By the way, I was sent on a JTTH in 2013 and had a one-on-one interview with Gothard and it was pretty  freakin' uncomfortable! Why did no one else question it??)

I am actually strangely interested in what the ATI/the conferences & IBLP were like in their prime  I've just started going through RG's posts... 

[Marionette]

23 minutes ago, Palimpsest said:

@Marionette, welcome to Free Jinger.  I'm glad you are not at Big Sandy. 

if you can answer any of these questions I would be grateful.

Can you give an estimate of how many people were there and do you think the numbers were decreasing?

Were people discussing Bill Gothard and the law suit?  Did they approve of the board's handling of that?

Who do you think is dominant in the present leadership (Gil Bates's generation)?

Who do you think is being groomed for future leadership (David Waller's generation)?

How does David (and Priscilla) come over in person?

Is ALERT membership declining?

And any other comments on the personalities, lectures and workshops would be very welcome.

Thanks!

 

Thank you! Glad to be here. 

I believe in 2014, there were about 1,200 people...? I think a lot of the Gothard super-followers dropped off and the remaining were the people who were like, "See? We're not here for Gothard, we're here for Jesus!!11!" Last year was significantly smaller, but I think there were still around 1,000 attendants. Unless they made that up  

I don't actually know a lot about the people on the board, but Tim Levendusky kind seemed to take Gothard's place in the introduction prayer & lecture of the conference. I heard his name a lot. The Paine & Bates parents are very involved, too, though.

As far as David Waller's gen, the names that stand out to me are Robert Staddon and Gabe Cleator. David & Priscilla were always really kind to me in my interactions with them. Though, I know they talk in soft voices & Priscilla (along with other ATI women) can come across as robotic in how they respond to you. 

It does seem like ALERT is declining, yes. I never knew hardly any of the ALERT guys, because they were not allowed to talk to girls. I remember some girls getting in trouble for trying to talk to Josiah Duggar while he was there during ALERT training (this was when people still came to the conference to meet them). I actually said something to him, which he ignored. It's not his nature to be like that, I had talked to him before but didn't realize I couldn't interact with him while he was in ALERT 

[Marionette]

I hope it is okay that I am triple-posting. Still trying to figure out how to work this thing. 

1 hour ago, meowfundiecatz said:

I'm seeing a lot of the older (re: instagram age) "kids" heading to Big Sandy today. So not so much of the arrive super early to fellowship sort of thing.

I would love to hear more about the changes post-Gothard @Marionette . Does ATI still shun dancing and contemporary music? Is it becoming fashionable to wear pants? Is there as much emphasis on being an ATI family at Family Conference or are they more so just hoping for attenders? I assume since they dropped the "ATI Conference" title they are trying to get away from that, while still being IBLP/ATI focused, but curious to know!

Hmmm... They actually expanded the conference this year for it to start on Monday, because it was not "long" enough previous years. A year or two ago they started having stuff on Saturday mornings since most everyone was still there. I know a lot of people show up on Monday to have the day to socialize, but they added stuff on Monday this year. Honestly, when you have your entire schedule packed for 3+ days where you're required to sit in sessions, you don't get enough time to socialize! Why add more?! I do know several people who got there last Thursday-Saturday. 

Yes, contemporary music & dancing are still taboo. A lot of families are okay with pants, but the ladies are still required to wear skirts at the conference (you know, so we can tell if you're a girl or not! And so innocent fundie-boys aren't defrauded by the shape of legs. ) It is interesting because there are wildly conservative Gothard-worshipers who still attend (trust me, the Duggars are mild in comparison), and on the other hand, there are a lot of fundie-lite young families. You could almost say there is no in-between. 

They no longer try to sell you on ATI like they did when Gothard was still there. The material is still for sale and you might hear a mention of Wisdom Booklets, but they are not actively advertising it. You get a discount on the conference if you are a member, but being a member doesn't mean anything otherwise. There was talk a few years ago about them revising ATI, making it cheaper, thus more accessible to homeschooling families. I do remember it being a little awkward to admit that I was not a member, never had been, never was going to be. I do think they are trying to get more people involved, but it seems to be dying instead.

They still promote IBLP programs with video trailers in between sessions, and they have booths set up/ushers pass out brochures to get more info. JTTH (which has been rewritten/revised, btw), Prison JTTH, RiseUp Discipleship, Verity Institute, ALERT, STEP, etc. 

[formergothardite]

How are gil and Kelly in real life?

[Nikedagain?]

1 hour ago, Marionette said:

I hope it is okay that I am triple-posting. Still trying to figure out how to work this thing. 

Hmmm... They actually expanded the conference this year for it to start on Monday, because it was not "long" enough previous years. A year or two ago they started having stuff on Saturday mornings since most everyone was still there. I know a lot of people show up on Monday to have the day to socialize, but they added stuff on Monday this year. Honestly, when you have your entire schedule packed for 3+ days where you're required to sit in sessions, you don't get enough time to socialize! Why add more?! I do know several people who got there last Thursday-Saturday. 

Yes, contemporary music & dancing are still taboo. A lot of families are okay with pants, but the ladies are still required to wear skirts at the conference (you know, so we can tell if you're a girl or not! And so innocent fundie-boys aren't defrauded by the shape of legs. ) It is interesting because there are wildly conservative Gothard-worshipers who still attend (trust me, the Duggars are mild in comparison), and on the other hand, there are a lot of fundie-lite young families. You could almost say there is no in-between. 

They no longer try to sell you on ATI like they did when Gothard was still there. The material is still for sale and you might hear a mention of Wisdom Booklets, but they are not actively advertising it. You get a discount on the conference if you are a member, but being a member doesn't mean anything otherwise. There was talk a few years ago about them revising ATI, making it cheaper, thus more accessible to homeschooling families. I do remember it being a little awkward to admit that I was not a member, never had been, never was going to be. I do think they are trying to get more people involved, but it seems to be dying instead.

They still promote IBLP programs with video trailers in between sessions, and they have booths set up/ushers pass out brochures to get more info. JTTH (which has been rewritten/revised, btw), Prison JTTH, RiseUp Discipleship, Verity Institute, ALERT, STEP, etc. 

Don't mind us. We're just all sitting here completely enthralled...