Kendra and Joe Duggar 9: Garrett David Has Arrived

[lumpentheologie]

10 minutes ago, luv2laugh said:

This is far worse than any normal teen having a baby. This is a fundie teen thus this teen won’t be getting any more education or job training. Kendra doesn’t have any encouraging Mom or sisters to baby sit while she takes classes. Kendra will be encouraged to have more babies within a few more months and to have all the babies her uterus will allow. If Joe dies, Kendra is screwed unless she marries again. This is a depressing situation and why I will not cheer her, Joy, or Lauren on and I certainly won’t celebrate it. Is it truly a victory any time people like Anna or Jill get pregnant? No, it is a reminder of their inescapable situation and horrible odds. I am happy when someone like Jinger gets pregnant because Jeremy seems like a guy that would encourage Jinger in her goals and in living the life of her choosing whether that’s stay at home motherhood, education, or a job. Also, as horrible as Derrick is, he supported Jill when she studied midwifery while pregnant with Israel. Kendra is unlikely to have motivation or support as her mother is married to a douchebag as well.

I can agree with you at least in part here--the cult is the main source of the problems with Kendra's situation. The worst thing about these couples having babies as soon as they get married is that it makes it harder for them to have any time alone as a couple to figure out their own beliefs. Perhaps they could still do that after having a few kids and getting overwhelmed. We'll see. Not holding my breath though. 

[singsingsing]

3 minutes ago, luv2laugh said:

Joe will likely be able to financially provide better when Kendra is 23 or 28. In fact, Kendra will be able to know herself better by that time and have a better idea of her needs and desires. She will also have made new goals for herself at that point.

I think this is really true for people who aren't fundamentalists, but I just can't agree that Kendra would know herself better and have a better idea of her needs and desires, or have developed new goals for herself, at the age of 23 or 28 vs. 19. She would have had a few extra years to have a revelation and leave fundamentalism, but let's be real, that was never very likely. She's been taught from infancy to never think for herself. She knows that she loves Jesus and that her purpose in life is to be a wife and mother. It was very unlikely (especially given her personality) that that was ever going to change, whether she married at 19 or 39.

[luv2laugh]

26 minutes ago, singsingsing said:

I think this is really true for people who aren't fundamentalists, but I just can't agree that Kendra would know herself better and have a better idea of her needs and desires, or have developed new goals for herself, at the age of 23 or 28 vs. 19. She would have had a few extra years to have a revelation and leave fundamentalism, but let's be real, that was never very likely. She's been taught from infancy to never think for herself. She knows that she loves Jesus and that her purpose in life is to be a wife and mother. It was very unlikely (especially given her personality) that that was ever going to change, whether she married at 19 or 39.

I just can’t agree. Kendra could definitely have a hard-core fundie mindset at 18 than say, at 28. Her children will be influenced by her beliefs. Kendra might think differently, believe differently, or have different goals for herself- no matter how big or small they are- in a few more years. She will definitely be a more independent person in a few years than she is now as a fundie teenager that is likely very dependent upon her headship. In addition, Kendra is less likely to have a super large brood if she started producing in her mid-20s than in her teens.

Look at how Jill Duggar’s appearance has managed to change in a few years. Sporting a nose ring and wearing jeans doesn’t mean that she’s no longer a die-hard fundie but it is evidence that she’s capable of evolving and changing from her past in some way.

[xlurker]

On college--not every one is a good fit. Lurker #1 has done well with a four year degree, and has recently added to that degree and has plans on even a further education.  Lurker #2 also attended a 4 year university, and during her time there changed her plans a bit   Was a four year degree necessary for what she does now? No, but having it earns respect, and gives a true understanding of the work she performs.  She (and I) are drowning in that student debt.  But I believe she is a multimillionaire, because no matter how long the hours, how physical the labor or how heart breaking the work may be she wakes every morning with a smile, knowing she loves what she does.  Persue the dream, not the money.  I am very proud of both my Lurkerlings--#2 just hears the beat of her own drum, and I think thats amazing. 

[singsingsing]

Just now, luv2laugh said:

I just can’t agree. Kendra could definitely have a hard-core fundie mindset at 18 than say, at 28. Her children will be influenced by her beliefs. Kendra might think differently, believe differently, or have different goals for herself- no matter how big or small they are- in a few more years. She will definitely be a more independent person in a few years than she is now as a fundie teenager that is likely very dependent upon her headship.

Kendra will be no more independent in 10 years than she is now. She never would have been, unless she had left fundamentalism, and that was very unlikely to happen even if she hadn't gotten married as a teenager. When she married Joseph, her father's authority over her was transferred to him. Joseph is now her headship. This would have been her reality whether she married at 18 or 28. If Jana gets married in a couple years when she's 30, it will be exactly the same. The only real difference will be that she'll have been spared several pregnancies and will likely end up with a smaller quiver. I can't fathom what kind of meaningful goals Kendra would have developed for herself that would have been different whether she married or stayed single, unless she had left fundamentalism.

I'm not saying I think that 18-year-old fundamentalists getting married and having babies is a good thing. I think it sucks. I just don't think it sucks that much more than 28-year-old fundies getting married and having babies. The sad reality is that most of them marry young, most of them don't leave, and if they do decide to leave at some point down the road, it's going to be really hard for them, regardless of whether they married at 18 or 28. 

[doubleT]

Kendra looks great and the baby is adorable.  Looks like Joe is combing that front piece of hair to merge with the rest now, and that is a good thing.  <wink>

Garrett David is a fine name and much better than what other fundies come up with.  I think Joe has always had a close relationship with John David (they are a lot a like and John really mentored Joe and spent a lot of time with him) and maybe this was Joe's way of acknowledging and honoring that.

 

[luv2laugh]

I’ll chime in on college myself here. Is everyone a good fit for college? No, not at all. However, I think we should be encouraging our kids to “shoot for the moon” yet accept that being mediocre is wonderful too. I’m going to encourage all my kids to get A’s. I’m going to encourage them to aim for Harvard. I’m going to encourage them to follow their passions but aim for becoming a doctor, lawyer, investment banker at Goldman Sachs, consultant at McKinsey, software developer at Google, or starting their own company, Why? Because I want the best for my kids- don’t we all? Will I be heartbroken if they tell me their dream is to drive a truck, be a mechanic, or pull a Lori and say stay at home motherhood is what they want instead of anything else ever? Not at all. They need to do what they love. However, I want to give them as many opportunities as I can and I want to maximize their odds of success by teaching them how to manage money and invest as well as encouraging them them go to college or gain skills in a trade. I think parents, like some fundies, who just have kids and think “they should just figure this whole life thing out themselves or whatevs God will just lay it on their heart” are doing a major disservice to them.

Also, I completely agree that not all 18 year olds are ready for college. Some teens do very well by taking a few years to work first, shadow jobs, talk to other professionals and figure out what they want in life first. It is a smart idea that should be encouraged for most teens in my honest opinion. There are many adults that regret the career they have because they chose it when they were young and didn’t know much about it. I can tell you that I had former lawyers and accountants in my chemistry class doing post baccs to become doctors and I knew a doctor and a dentist getting MBAs to go into investment banking instead. I don’t agree with Lori but I know loads of doctors who told me they regretted it so much that they would physically block the door if their kid wanted to go to medical school and I know two that encourage every teenager to become an engineer or physician assistant instead of even considering medical school. So much time and money would be saved if teenagers took 2 years or so off to investigate a career plan before going to college. It should be encouraged for some kids that are not sure of what they want to do. It is wrong to be expect kids to figure it out at school in 2 years... many kids end up needing to delay graduation from picking the wrong majors. I wish I took time off before college to figure out what career I wanted and spent time talking to people and shadowing different jobs. I am going to make my kids spend a few weeks each summer shadowing all sorts of people’s jobs. They can shadow and interview  a veterinarian, doctor, dentist, lawyer, accountant, teacher, police officer, nurse, social worker, engineer, investment banker, etc. many kinds and write reports on all. Job shadowing should be a high school requirement.

[Ivycoveredtower]

1 hour ago, Carm_88 said:

I do feel that high school students aren't truly prepared for university. I know that I wasn't. It's hard to say but sometimes, I feel that parents of students and the school push them into university/college when they aren't equipped to handle it. I wish that we could be real with them and that they would listen. University is all fun and games until you get that huge student loan bill. I wish that the Duggars had the opportunity to go on and do higher education. I think that it would have been good for them! I don't know, the world we live in is so fucked up. I feel like we're the generation that's screwed! 

yeah I probably never would have went away to school if it hadn't been expected. I got decent grades it was fun. it pushed me out of my comfort zone for sure but I don't really think the debt was worth it in the end. 

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

4 minutes ago, Ivycoveredtower said:

yeah I probably never would have went away to school if it hadn't been expected. I got decent grades it was fun. it pushed me out of my comfort zone for sure but I don't really think the debt was worth it in the end. 

This, I went to college because it was expected of me and it wasn't worth the time or the money.  My oldest is not going to college, at this time, he may later but right now he doesn't want to, and I figure why waste the money. My daughter on the other hand wants to be a dentist, so college is a must for her.  The debt will hopefully be worth it for her in terms of income potential but we do think she's being foolish going straight to a 4 year uni and not living at home and getting her Associates & working to help pay for that 1st it could save her close to $25k in debt in the long run. But she is stubborn and once she sets her mind to something there is no changing it.  

[Sky with diamonds]

I admit I didn't go to college for many reasons. I can honestly I didn't enjoy school. It was a struggle because I never fit in and I was bullied so much I had to move to another town.  The bullying affected my school work, my confidence, my whole life at the time. I can see why college isn't for everyone just based on my own experiences.

That said, i wish I had made different choices about my  education back in the day. I ended up with a GED. 

[Nowyn]

6 hours ago, finnlassie said:

In Finland, you can choose between doing upper secondary (high school equivalent), vocational school or a combo of the both (which takes 4 years instead of the regular 3 that vocational and upper secondary take). I just think it's a brilliant system. In vocational school kids still have mandatory lessons in languages, maths and such, but it's much less than in upper secondary which has a clear academic emphasis. My sister who loves writing essays and such chose vocational school though as she wanted to get into media, and her degree they learnt about video editing, building websites, photography... She almost went into hairdressing, but loved media more. Some folk from there do continue up to higher education, but then again, it's free for us.

My friend is a practical nurse (vocational level) and she makes 2500-3000 euros a month. That's more than I'll make with my line of work after I graduate, the starter pay is around 2100€/mo. And I know guys and gals that have become car mechanics that make a good living running their own business or working for a small company.

 

2

I would like to add that also tertiary level is separated similarly and you can continue from any secondary education to tertiary education. Tertiary education is separated into universities, technical universities, and upper vocational school. It also helps that education costs a pittance and you even get financial aid for a living while going to school, most of it is not a loan. 
I do have to say that in my experience the normal salary of a practical nurse is less but compared to construction jobs the same applies. Variance in salaries isn't great compared to many countries. For example, doctor's earn about half than they do in the US but start earning more earlier in their careers. 

I kind of like Finland sometimes.

[Ivycoveredtower]

1 hour ago, luv2laugh said:

Joe will likely be able to financially provide better when Kendra is 23 or 28. In fact, Kendra will be able to know herself better by that time and have a better idea of her needs and desires. She will also have made new goals for herself at that point. 

Just like if it was my daughter, I want the youth in fundamentalism to have as many opportunities as they can, despite how limited those opportunities may be. I also want the children to go to bed with full bellies and opportunity themselves. Fundie teens are less mature than secular teens of today. Kendra may be 18 but mentally, she is much younger than a secular 18 year old and has much less opportunities.

Can you honestly say that Kendra’s kids will have the same opportunities of a secular teen mother’s?

I am not a fan of the glorification of Duggar pregnancy nor a fan of the glorification of fundamentalism. I don’t want teenagers to see a pregnant Duggar on the cover of People and say they aspire to be a pregnant teen or stay at home instead getting of more school/training either. At least shows like Teen Mom show the hardship of teen parenthood. These are harmful beliefs and should be exposed for the toxicity that they are.

I'll come at this from the point of someone who was born to a teen mom. we usually see the view point of the teen mom themselves but the kids themselves don't talk out much. 

*disclaimer this is my own experience. 

my mom had me at 17 she was married to someone not my father and had two more kids by her early 20's. I was raised a lot by my grandparents and never really got to have a good relationship with my siblings because I was bounced between my parents so much and neither of them really had solid relationships. 

I always resented the fact that my mom was so hard on me. I think part of it was that I was a girl and the eldest  so she didn't want me to go down her path but at the same time she was so soft on my brothers. 

I remember when I was away at college one of my young cousin's got pregnant and she was helping with the shower. I remember thinking this is nothing to celebrate why are we rewarding this teen. 

lets just say being born to a teen really messed me up.  I will also say that many friends I have who were also born to teen were almost treated as second parents to younger siblings because they were usually so much older then them and that caused alot of resentment among many people in my own friend group myself included. 

[AliceInFundyland]

You know what else sucks about college debt? Not being able to wipe it out if you have to go through the shittiness of bankruptcy.

I went to college out of high school. It was an overly academic setting and I didn’t thrive there. I did rack up bills. (So did my mom, she still has them. She couldn’t erase it either when she had to bankrupt. Both of us had to do it over medical stuff). People really do need to be encouraged towards taking a moment to figuree out their interests and looking at options. The generalized “liberal arts education” that was pushed at us 20 years ago is just not practical today.

[Escadora]

1 hour ago, luv2laugh said:

 I am happy when someone like Jinger gets pregnant because Jeremy seems like a guy that would encourage Jinger in her goals and in living the life of her choosing whether that’s stay at home motherhood, education, or a job.

See, I think I disagree here. I think that Jeremy's very particular about cultivating his brand, much like Jessa. I get a very pseudo-intellectual vibe from him, and I think the way Jinger dresses and conducts herself now are results of his gentle 'encouraging' of her.  I believe he'd only support and encourage her as far as it benefits him to do so, even if the wanted something more/else and I definitely haven't seen any evidence of him going out of his way to introduce her to more worldly pursuits that she couldn't have discovered by herself/with a different husband. It seems as though she's had a great boost in confidence since marrying him, though, and that's pretty awesome.

Joe, on the other hand, seems to adore Kendra and has been shown to consider her wishes and go out of his way to make her happy. Maybe he's not pushing for her to go to school or to get familiar with a field of work, in fact it's very likely that she'll never work or go to college. Maybe she'll spend her adult life birthing babies and raising children (but it kind of seems to me like that's the way she wants it to be), but when it comes to marriage dynamics I'd rather have a spouse that was kind to me than who put on a facade of a Prince Charming for his own benefit. 

I'm not saying that Jeremy's a lousy husband, because hey just about anything's better than being in the Duggar Collective, but it's very likely that Jinger and their children will be used as props to push his religious agenda along in the years to come (instagram, youtube, protests... the works, really), where Joe and Kendra obviously share those beliefs but probably won't be using their kids to promote the fundie lifestyle because they seem to prefer a simpler life. I'm also not saying that Joe's perfect, because he's very likely just as hateful as the rest of them and will raise his kids that way too. 

I think of it this way: JinJer are likely to produce Josh Jrs, when he was at the height of his success. Kids that will grow up to be adults who are able to push their hateful views on others in a way that has power behind it, maybe politicians or preachers.  Joe and Kendra are probably going to raise outdoorsy, sturdy boys and glittery, sparkly, giggly girls and none of them will have any power greater than an instagram handle (if that) to spew out that hateful nonsense they call a faith into the world. 

In that respect, I find myself kinda glad, given that Joe and Kendra are probably going to be Jimbob and Michelle 2.0, that their kids will have less in the way of opportunity, as mean as that sounds.

[lumpentheologie]

I know there are a lot of less than ideal circumstances in which people have kids (when they're very young, financially unprepared, in a cult, etc etc). 

But I can't ever say there's nothing to celebrate when parents have a loved, wanted child. We don't really know what will happen in the future, but the delight and awe and love Kendra and Joe obviously feel towards Garrett is a good thing, and denying any value to that just seems cruel to me. 

I will, however, judge the hell out of them when and if he is neglected/abused/subjected to SOTDRT/sent away to ALERT/etc. 

 

[luv2laugh]

Joe may love Kendra but they are far more likely to raise uneducated fundamentalists that are lacking in opportunities. They’re also likely to encourage their children to not anything more. I can see Jeremy and Jinger encouraging their children to go to University of Texas but not Joe and Kendra, who I see as JB & Michelle 2.0.  Jeremy is clearly a fan of education and has had the traditional college experience. Jeremy and Jinger are far more likely to allow their kids more opportunities and those kids will grow up educated and have different experiences. Jeremy and Jinger will be right wingers but I don’t see them as any different than the typical college-going evangelicals that I know. 

Celebrating a baby is different than celebrating a teen pregnancy. I think it’s selfish to expect that just because some have kids at 18 means that it shouldn’t be a big deal when a fundamentalist does. We live in a cold, tough world and let’s want better for our kids today.

[Escadora]

15 minutes ago, luv2laugh said:

Joe may love Kendra but they are far more likely to raise uneducated fundamentalists that are lacking in opportunities.

Again, I'd argue that that's actually a positive thing. If my prediction is right and they end up having 8+ children then if those children all grow up to be working manual jobs or boring desk jobs and attending church every week and having a relatively unexciting life then that's way preferable to JinJer's situation, where those kids may very well get to have a more exciting and affluent lifestyle. Because of the two families, JinJer's is the one most likely to have power to enact some governmental powers that deny rights and privileges to a lot of different people. 

Having a baby when you're a teenager also isn't an indication that someone isn't living their best life. A lot of what we as a society base success to be is based upon a narrative shoved down our throats by mass media, politicians, and each other. Some people don't want to go to college. Some people want to have kids, work simple jobs, and be done with it. That Joe and Kendra seem to want this is a good thing, given their beliefs, because they and their children will have less opportunity to affect change (although at this point their 'change' seems like more of the same) in the world. I genuinely don't see why, beyond compassion for the individual child/person because it is sad that they'll be limited, you look more favourably upon JinJer's situation, am I missing something?

The road to success is a pretty shit one to be on, tbh, and I'm not even completely sure I'll make it to that destination despite studying at college and having tentative plans for my future. The debt is already something that is not worth it so far. If I could give it up and retire to a small cottage with a loving spouse and a baby (but not the yucky fundamentalism because my values do not jam with that at all) in this very moment I can't say I wouldn't make that switch. 

[AliceInFundyland]

Jeremy is actively pursuing a career path that encourages spreading the hatred. I have, for the time, lost faith in any sort of “freed Jinger.”

Joseph and Kendra are keeping the hatred to themselves.

All the babies will be loved. I doubt any will have great opportunities. They all come out of Duggars. 

Here’s my optimistic thought and it’s the same one I have for the Bates. Time softens. Joseph and Kendra seem very loving. If one of their children wants to be different in some way, perhaps they shall embrace. I feel like it’s really all we can go on.

Still on the fence about Jinger. I’d love to think that moving to Laredo and then possibly LA would expose her to new things. But she traded one headship for another. And he is as purpose-driven as Jim Bob.

[VelociRapture]

47 minutes ago, luv2laugh said:

Joe may love Kendra but they are far more likely to raise uneducated fundamentalists that are lacking in opportunities. They’re also likely to encourage their children to not anything more. I can see Jeremy and Jinger encouraging their children to go to University of Texas but not Joe and Kendra, who I see as JB & Michelle 2.0.  Jeremy is clearly a fan of education and has had the traditional college experience. Jeremy and Jinger are far more likely to allow their kids more opportunities and those kids will grow up educated and have different experiences. Jeremy and Jinger will be right wingers but I don’t see them as any different than the typical college-going evangelicals that I know. 

Celebrating a baby is different than celebrating a teen pregnancy. I think it’s selfish to expect that just because some have kids at 18 means that it shouldn’t be a big deal when a fundamentalist does. We live in a cold, tough world and let’s want better for our kids today.

To the bolded: Just want to point out that people said all the same things about Derick and he still managed to surprise everyone by being a massive turd. All you have to do is swap names and replace University of Texas with Oklahoma State. 

That said, the Vuolos and the Dillards are all different people. Just because the Dills turned out to be assholes doesn’t mean JinJer will too. But keep in mind that we know very little about JinJer outside the things they clearly want us to know and focus on. They have been extremely careful in how they come across via social media because they want people to see only the best aspects of their lives.

This next bit is complete personal opinion. I dislike Jeremy. I think he’s far more dangerous than most of the other men in this family because he’s smart enough to shut his trap about his beliefs on the show and on social media, while simultaneously presenting a polished and shiny image to the world. Jeremy is the one who has the potential to cause some very real damage to people’s lives - not Derick “I’m a sucky missionary and I’m going to act like a toddler via Twitter” Dillard. People are much more willing to overlook dangerous flaws when the person promoting them comes wrapped in shiny packaging like JinJer do. 

I think Jeremy genuinely loves his wife and I’m honestly glad that Jinger found someone who has helped her grow in self-confidence, but (as others said) I also get the feeling that he really only encourages Jinger’s growth and development in ways that will eventually benefit him somehow as well. I think the same will be true for their children - if something reflects well on Jeremy and helps him advance his career, then it’ll be allowed. 

[Escadora]

If I may chime in on the whole college, opportunity, and parenting discussion (anecdata ahead),

I got the feeling, a lot, as a kid, teenager, and even sometimes now, that my worth in my parents' eyes was based on what I could do to make them look good. I was one of those 'gifted' children (could read by the time I was three, was an early talker, good with numbers etc...) and it reflected very well on my parents. But all their encouragement was based on attainment, rather than attitude. 

Simply put, I was never taught how to work hard and how to enjoy putting effort into things. And when I faced things in school that I wasn't great at right away, I gave up pretty easily. My parents were fine with this, because they considered me to be a flighty, dreamy child anyway. As an adult, I try to be stricter with myself and make myself do things that I don't enjoy, but I have a mental disorder and some physical limitations that will, in all probability, stop me from achieving greatness. I was raised to be bigoted in ways different than the Duggars are, but bigoted nonetheless. I work on that daily. 

I'm okay with my limitations simply because I have no choice but to be. I've gone beyond the class and (lack of) wealth I was born into to be the first in my extended family to attend university for a number of generations (my brothers are right behind me, one in trade school and the other in musical theatre!), and will do my best to raise my own children if I'm lucky enough to have them to work really hard at what they want, and to play hard when the times present themselves also, because there's no point in having a miserable journey through life if there's no guarantee of that magic success at the end anyway.

I never want my child to be scared to tell me what they got on a test, even if they failed. I hate the use of parental disappointment as a tool of discipline, and I think it borders on manipulation. I want my kid to be excited to involve me with their planning and working and hobbies and interests and if they're rocket scientists, great, I'll watch more NASA documentaries... If they're sanitation workers then I'll be bugging them for all the good cleaning tips and geeking out over the gross with them. I hope. idk I have a lot of dreams and ideals and good intentions. I can only hope I follow through with that parenting aspiration if I ever am lucky enough to have the chance

This narrative that anyone can be anything if they try hard enough is damaging and is probably what is causing a lot of millennial discontent. So much is expected of us by the generations that came before, but the world is different now, and success is a lot harder won. Some success isn't even won at all but handed down through a family line. The world isn't fair, but we all do the best we can with what we have. 

All this to say that where Joe and Kendra's kids might not have much in the way of opportunity as we (general we, not specifically FJ we) may see it, doesn't mean that all of their children will be destined to live that quiet, country life, even if it's what I think would be best for the larger society. There may be a real go-getter in there, or someone who 'marries up' into a wealthy, more educated family. Life is unpredictable, and, again, whilst I'm not celebrating a baby born into the cult, Garrett's a brand new, itty bitty, little baby, clearly loved by his parents, full of potential to be and believe anything. We all know the likely outcome, but it seems hasty to condemn him to a life of mediocrity before he's even opened his eyes.

[Jinder Roles]

@VelociRapture I agree so much about your thoughts on Jeremy!  I also believe that Jinger's political/religious agenda is as much her's as her husband's. And while she was taught to be this way, I don't want to completely strip her of her agency by thinking that she's being manipulated completely to do Jeremy's bidding (not that you were saying that, I'm just speaking generally). 

Based on the fact that this website is called Free Jinger, I think we sometimes believe that Jinger, given the chance, would have not grow up to espouse the bigotry taught and reinforced to her. And while that might be true, there is equally as good a chance that she might have (she'd probably fall somewhere inbetween IMO). She has an amicable personality and sometimes we like to think people who we are drawn to are inherently like us in believe and practice. 

So while Jinger is being influenced by her husband and her beliefs require her to be led by him, I also think Jinger is doing what she wants to do and believes how she wants to believe. And she and Jeremy, are about to impart those core beliefs on their child. 

Basically, I think Jinger is more caluclated and intentional that we sometimes give her credit for... kind of like her husband. 

[FundieCentral]

What a great conversation, I appreciate it you guys! 

 

My two cents: god, I have really come to appreciate the simple life over the last few years. As stated in various places on FJ, I grew up in a normal, middle class background in Europe but moved to the US in my teens; into what you’d probably consider the New England, upper class, fancy part of society/milieu. Think almost everybody did a stint in consulting and investment banking.

And man, I want my average life back. There’s certainly a bit of childhood nostalgia. But this status-centered, money-centered, appearance-over-substance culture I’ve been stuck in is sucking my soul right out of me. I was also a gifted child, skipped classes, way early on development, got perfect grades even when I didn’t try (the kind of child you hate in school :D) And I am still someone who is very diligent, meticulous, and ambitious. It is so hard for me not to get sucked into the treadmill of “4 more promotions until you’re a partner!” “3 more trades until you get the max bonus!” etc., and measuring my self-worth by the logo on the business card I carry. I can’t shake this feeling that I am on the wrong path in life, but I would be met with contempt/bemusement/social shunning if I, say, became a kindergarten teacher. I don’t want to waste my talent and ambition, and it seems like this is “where people like me” end up. But at the same time, I can’t help but feel like McKinsey, Harvard, and Goldmann are not what they’re cracked up to be. I am currently escaping into my marriage and my dream of motherhood because it gives me comfort to think about normal things and actually have something in common with everyone else in the world, read parenting blogs, and worry about finding gifts for friends. I even envy Kendra for a life that (quite frankly) seems better in some ways than what I got going for me. I hope to achieve some sort of resolution to my confusion/lack of direction within the next couple of years, so hopefully this won’t be forever. I obviously appreciate the opportunities and choices I did and do have. But yeah. My life looks a lot better from a distance. 

(Disclaimer: That is not to say that some people don’t love this lifestyle, and that there aren’t things I enjoy, or benefits I derive etc etc...thank you in advance to for letting me share such a personal story!). 

[VelociRapture]

13 minutes ago, FundieCentral said:

What a great conversation, I appreciate it you guys! 

 

My two cents: god, I have really come to appreciate the simple life over the last few years. As stated in various places on FJ, I grew up in a normal, middle class background in Europe but moved to the US in my teens; into what you’d probably consider the New England, upper class, fancy part of society/milieu. Think almost everybody did a stint in consulting and investment banking.

And man, I want my average life back. There’s certainly a bit of childhood nostalgia. But this status-centered, money-centered, appearance-over-substance culture I’ve been stuck in is sucking my soul right out of me. I was also a gifted child, skipped classes, way early on development, got perfect grades even when I didn’t try (the kind of child you hate in school :D) And I am still someone who is very diligent, meticulous, and ambitious. It is so hard for me not to get sucked into the treadmill of “4 more promotions until you’re a partner!” “3 more trades until you get the max bonus!” etc., and measuring my self-worth by the logo on the business card I carry. I can’t shake this feeling that I am on the wrong path in life, but I would be met with contempt/bemusement/social shunning if I, say, became a kindergarten teacher. I don’t want to waste my talent and ambition, and it seems like this is “where people like me” end up. But at the same time, I can’t help but feel like McKinsey, Harvard, and Goldmann are not what they’re cracked up to be. I am currently escaping into my marriage and my dream of motherhood because it gives me comfort to think about normal things and actually have something in common with everyone else in the world, read parenting blogs, and worry about finding gifts for friends. I even envy Kendra for a life that (quite frankly) seems better in some ways than what I got going for me. I hope to achieve some sort of resolution to my confusion/lack of direction within the next couple of years, so hopefully this won’t be forever. I obviously appreciate the opportunities and choices I did and do have. But yeah. My life looks a lot better from a distance. 

(Disclaimer: That is not to say that some people don’t love this lifestyle, and that there aren’t things I enjoy, or benefits I derive etc etc...thank you in advance to for letting me share such a personal story!). 

I think you need to ask yourself:

1. Do you really care what those people would think or say if you were to step back from that lifestyle?

2. Are you genuinely happy with your life as it is at the moment?

Providing for yourself and your family is very important, but happiness and personal fulfillment is important as well. Finding a balance between them isn’t always possible, but you may be able to find something that moves you closer to a balance you can at least be content with for the long term. 

[AtlanticTug]

Congrats to them on the baby and the seemingly smooth delivery. So far the Duggar daughters-in-law are outperforming the daughters hands down when it comes to easy births, and better sized babies. Over to you, Lauren!

[feministxtian]

College from my point of view (OPINION ONLY)

I went to college straight out of high school...made it a year. I wasn't studying what I wanted to study and ended up getting pregnant with my daughter. Honestly the BEST thing that could have happened to me. 

Finally, when I grew up and realized that fast food management wasn't really the world's greatest career path, I had an opportunity to get a 2 year degree and make good money. As it ended up, my entire degree cost me about 200 bucks (I paid for one class/book). I can command pretty serious money now, more than many college educated types (around 60K/yr). 

None of my kids went to college after high school, hell, none of them graduated from high school. It took them years to finally get their respective shits in one sock. Oldest is about ready to graduate with a BS in computer science (she'll be 36). #1 son has a couple of semesters left for a business degree but is currently an executive assistant/chief of security for some bitcoin entrepreneur and has started his own side business. #2 son is taking the couple of classes he needs to get his journeyman electrician's license. He is talking about finally going back to school for electrical engineering. However, they all are financially independent without 4 year degrees. One just bought a house. 

I personally think college is overrated. Not everyone is cut out for it. There is a real shortage of tradespeople in the US. Here in sin city, with all the construction going on, they're offering insane money for even semi-skilled construction labor. They can't get enough people to fill out the work crews. Skilled trades, even non-union are making INSANE money. Welders, carpenters, electricians, plumbers, pipefitters, mechanics...can all command insane wages, starting at about 50k/yr and going up from there depending on qualifications. 

My husband's aunt and uncle (snobs) lost their marbles when they found out how much I made with a 2 year degree. One has a PhD in English literature and the other has a Master's in education. Blew their minds when they found out I made more than either one of them with just a shitty 2 year AAS degree.